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View Full Version : Stop arse raping Revelations! Late night poorly written rant and bible 101.


jackketch
2007-05-12, 01:05
Lets stop arse raping Revelations.

Its probably fair to say that no other book of the bible has been abused, mistreated and generally arse-raped more than the poor old Revelation Of St John. For centuries its been the playground for every whack job going.

You wanta *prove* that Jesus was, infact, a homosexual Elvis impersonator from the planet Transexual Transylvania? That the world will end when the last cheese sandwich is eaten by a one legged Cossack and a strangely Canadian prophet will travel towards Bethlehem in a VW Beetle? Then the book of Revelations is the book for you.

A quick read through the various evangelical literature will tell you that the 'Beast' was a 'code name' for The Soviet Union, The European Union, America etc etc etc.

And lets not forget that it FORTELLS THE FUTURE!

Thats right folks, THE LORD GOD in his almighty wisdom saw fit to give us a copy of his blue print for this Earth. Only he done writ it in code so as only the righteous might have understanding.

But fear not for Reverend John-Joe-Billy-Bob "the South Shall Rise Agin I say" Jones , of the "Four Square Television Church Of GOD the Fairly Awesome", has studied the scripture for years and now you too can KNOW GOD's PLAN. Yes thats right, hear it from the LORD himself. Find out what fantastic future awaits us in his kingdom. What will really happen to all the sodomites and democrats.

And thats not all. Order today and you'll get the "7 Vials Of Wrath" completely free!!! Yes Folks, I said "completely FREE"!

OK so I'm taking the piss a bit... but only abit.

Even here where we have posters who actually know something about the bible there is a hankering for using the "this is what happens when you buy cheap acid" imagery to *prove* a certain point.

So while I wait for yet another CCNA study guide to download i thought I take time out from the erotic pleasures of subnet masking and binary math and do a thread which will try and show how to read, understand and treat the bloody book with some respect (or rather one small section of the book, cos again I *do* have a life...).

As usual I'm resisting the temptation to make this a 'scholarly' discourse. Life is too short to argue about the correct declension of the fouth tense in the third person singular of a chosen koine verb and a blow by blow comparison of the various codecs. You want 'indepth' and sources then its all out there. What i'm trying to get across is the 'mindset', the 'tude of a historical-critcal scholar ...in a CNN format.


First off you need to know a couple of things.

1. The Revelations is FUCKED UP. Thats a scholarly way of saying the the 'originals' are a mess. Truth be told no one really can say what the original text was or which bit goes where. So any 'interpretation' is always open to question.

2. IT WAS WRITTEN BY WHACK JOBS FOR WHACK JOBS. Or if you prefer 'fanatics'. Think David Koresh and you won't go far wrong.

3.It was written by and for people who spent the whole day reading the OT prophecies and trying to bend them to fit the Jesus myth. Or as Acts quaintly puts it:

Acts 17:11
Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true..

This point is the key to understanding the whole thing.

4.It wasn't actually written in code but it might as well have been so I'll keep on saying code. Certainly it was written in a way that no roman censor or 'gestapo' might understand it.

5.It is in no way unique, there's a whole trailer load of similar works and to really understand the Revelation then you need to get down and dirty with the whole caboodle. Starting with the OT jewish eschatology and finishing with the Revelation of St.Peter.

So lets have a look at one of the more famous verses:

Rev.: Chapter 17

3So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

5And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

6And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.


The first thing we should note is the phrase "away in spirit into the wilderness". This tells us that what is to follow is written in prophetical language. Whether God really granted this guy a vision or he had just had too many of those weird little blue mushrooms, isn't really the issue here.

So what what does it mean , huh?

Well instead of arse raping it and trying to make it fit some dodgy dogma or last nights news bulletin, lets try and understand it the way the author would have meant his readers to understand it.

Pretty radical idea I know but that's the kind of guy i am...

Any 1st century christian reading that passage would automatically think of Ezekial chapter 23. Give a quick read and you'll see why.

Then he'd start to work it out.

"Whore" has a very precise meaning in prophetical language. It means(put simply) jews who forget god and go worship some idol. Its an image that appears time and time again in the bible. God says Israel is his wife and sometimes she goes off to fuck around, be a slut. He then beats the crap out her and brings her back. Hmmmm old style marriage FTW!

Babylon has sort of two meanings in the OT prophecies. Its the place the true believers are held captive and the place where all wickedness springs from/resides. Have a read of Zechariah 5

So we've got an 'unfaithful' Israel in general or 'adulterous' jews in particular who are either 'sleeping with' babylon or led by 'her'.

The "purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls" tells us who these jews were. You see those are the apparel for high priests and the temple drapery as well. Have a read through Exodus sometime if you don't believe me , chapters 28 to 35 'ish (off the top of my head).


Yep the 'mystery' around the Whore of Baylon is dead easy to understand. Its the jewish high Priests, the temple mafia. Obviously this piece was written back when the High Priests were actively persecuting the early christians (think of Saul/Paul) and of course the whole 'blood of the saints' bit now makes perfect sense.

Sorted.

No supernatural stuff a la Buffy, no dire warnings that Congress is infact the Whore of Babylon leading us all into damnation.

Anyway, its late.

If anyone wants to know more and have a particular passage of the revelations 'ketched' then post it and if I get time...

fallinghouse
2007-05-12, 01:33
It's called the Book of Revelation. No 's'.

Hexadecimal
2007-05-12, 01:53
Don't forget that it's a certified apocalypse. It was the author's present day critique of the world written in a way that could be mass distributed. It wasn't telling the future, it was telling the present.

Another A for the ketch.

SAMMY249
2007-05-12, 02:46
"It wasn't actually written in code but it might as well have been so I'll keep on saying code. Certainly it was written in a way that no roman censor or 'gestapo' might understand it."

Thats is a complete bullshit assumption he was persecuted all his life hunted down and now is hiding on an island (if I remeber correctly) and you say he NOW decides to "censor" his work so the Romans wouldnt hurt him anymore give me a break evertime i hear someone say that i immediately see how illogical they are because why would a man go through all that and then only when he is about to die he diguises his work.

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

SAMMY249
2007-05-12, 02:49
written in a way that could be mass distributed.
Another A for the ketch.

No that is incorrect it was a letter written to churches which he frequently wrote to.

Hexadecimal
2007-05-12, 03:59
No that is incorrect it was a letter written to churches which he frequently wrote to.

And then these churches used his writing to intensify the religion. His writings carried the quality of mass appeal - Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, they were the basis in which Revelation found inspiration. The book carried the darker side of the story, the compliment, if you will, to the uplifting message of salvation and love. The dark side of a story is instant appeal to humans; we ate the shit up.

SAMMY249
2007-05-12, 04:10
And then these churches used his writing to intensify the religion. His writings carried the quality of mass appeal - Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, they were the basis in which Revelation found inspiration. The book carried the darker side of the story, the compliment, if you will, to the uplifting message of salvation and love. The dark side of a story is instant appeal to humans; we ate the shit up.

No, you are wrong again he wrote letters to the churches to uplift them because these churches were going through a hard time in this case he was writing on things to come.

SAMMY249
2007-05-12, 04:28
"Acts 17:11
Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true."

When you put this verse in context it says nothing like what he wants to lead you to believe.

10: And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11: These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
12: Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.
13: But when the Jews of Thessalonica had knowledge that the word of God was preached of Paul at Berea, they came thither also, and stirred up the people.

As you can see when you put it in context he was speaking to Jews how would the Jews know what they said were true? by using what they had the, Torah (OT)

Hexadecimal
2007-05-12, 05:50
His message was a recording of his current world. It's about Rome and its attempt to erase Christianity. An apocalypse is defined as a 'revealing', not in the fortune teller sense, but in the education sense. It was a work to be understood by his intended audience, not the Romans.

It was indeed an uplifting message, but its delivery is dark because it's the world as is prior to what the world is hoped to be when Christianity comes out on top of Rome.

It was a cryptic revolutionist writing.

Masta Thief
2007-05-12, 05:57
JAkktech i think your the least qualified moderator on totse! yes that includes BI too!!!

Everyone knows that some dumbass dropout, would never discover the real meaning of something that no one else could find(or even notice) especially when were talking about ancient texts!!! I swear you act like a kid, your not going to find a hidden meaning to jack shit so quite trying! Of course all these other retards with the IQ of 2 will believe you, just listen when i say this, you mean nothing to the world and you will never make a break through in philosiphy or science so give up kiddiot!!!

SAMMY249
2007-05-12, 06:53
His message was a recording of his current world. It's about Rome and its attempt to erase Christianity. An apocalypse is defined as a 'revealing', not in the fortune teller sense, but in the education sense. It was a work to be understood by his intended audience, not the Romans.

It was indeed an uplifting message, but its delivery is dark because it's the world as is prior to what the world is hoped to be when Christianity comes out on top of Rome.

It was a cryptic revolutionist writing.

You dodge what i said which completely destroys this argument yet you just keep saying it over and over again until people believe it, I know you are better then this Hex.

jackketch
2007-05-12, 07:34
It's called the Book of Revelation. No 's'.

Thank you Captain Obvious!

:P

And 'want to' isn't spelt 'wanta' or any of the other little 'mistakes' i made.

You see, i try and write such pieces as I speak. It helps prevent me from getting all scholarly and from using 'da big words'. And in 'normal' day to day speach I would indeed refer to it as 'revelations' (or 'Offenbarung') depending on what language I was speaking.

Of course when I talk with people who know their bible i would call it the 'Apocalypse'.

jackketch
2007-05-12, 07:40
JAkktech i think your the least qualified moderator on totse! yes that includes BI too!!!

Everyone knows that some dumbass dropout, would never discover the real meaning of something that no one else could find(or even notice) especially when were talking about ancient texts!!! I swear you act like a kid, your not going to find a hidden meaning to jack shit so quite trying! Of course all these other retards with the IQ of 2 will believe you, just listen when i say this, you mean nothing to the world and you will never make a break through in philosiphy or science so give up kiddiot!!!

And I think you're a troll, a bad one at that. Oh i see you've made some spelling mistakes....shall I help you out and edit your posts again?

No no don't thank me, all part of the job.

jackketch
2007-05-12, 07:43
"It wasn't actually written in code but it might as well have been so I'll keep on saying code. Certainly it was written in a way that no roman censor or 'gestapo' might understand it."

Thats is a complete bullshit assumption he was persecuted all his life hunted down and now is hiding on an island (if I remeber correctly) and you say he NOW decides to "censor" his work so the Romans wouldnt hurt him anymore give me a break evertime i hear someone say that i immediately see how illogical they are because why would a man go through all that and then only when he is about to die he diguises his work.

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

ANd you know for a fact that the whole book was written by some guy called John on Patmos?

Go away an learn some basic bible history before you step into the ring, boy.

*edit: Just FYI the 'book' of Revelation is infact two or maybe three.

jackketch
2007-05-12, 07:59
mvpena, you do know I can read messages you delete, don't you?

And you should have left it up, made me laugh and it was a justified comment.

boozehound420
2007-05-12, 14:28
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=995877910757286588&q=end+timers

this documentary puts the book of revelation into its historical context. Makes sense to me. Worth a watch.

SAMMY249
2007-05-12, 16:16
ANd you know for a fact that the whole book was written by some guy called John on Patmos?



And you know it wasnt? Seriously dont come on here and try to give me that crap.

SAMMY249
2007-05-12, 16:20
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=995877910757286588&q=end+timers

this documentary puts the book of revelation into its historical context. Makes sense to me. Worth a watch.

Those Americans (mostly) near the begining are crazy I dont understand why they would want the apocalypse to happen when that means so many would go to hell.

jackketch
2007-05-12, 16:56
And you know it wasnt? Seriously dont come on here and try to give me that crap.

Try looking at the evidence.

SAMMY249
2007-05-12, 17:04
Try looking at the evidence.

You say "Look at the evidence" and the not present any......Oh ya you really win this debate.

jackketch
2007-05-12, 17:48
You say "Look at the evidence" and the not present any......Oh ya you really win this debate.

If you are incapable of using google or visiting your local library then it isn't my problem. I wasn't aware this was a debate. To debate an issue would imply you actually knew something about the issue and you patently don't.

Hexadecimal
2007-05-12, 22:53
If you are incapable of using google or visiting your local library then it isn't my problem. I wasn't aware this was a debate. To debate an issue would imply you actually knew something about the issue and you patently don't.

Haha, ketch owned.

And Sam, I ignored your 'point' because it was totally irrelevant to Revelation. The final book of the Bible is an apocalypse, meaning it's a historical document of the creative variety with an inspirational piece thrown in. It's a recording of Rome's persecution of Christianity, and the hopeful triumph of Christianity over Rome. Even the books leading up to it make record of the Christian struggle to keep their new religion alive. Aside from the Gospels, most of the NT is historic records of Christ's young following securing a place in the world for Christianity, and the trials and tribulations they have faced. The apocalypse is another one of these writings...the only difference is that it is written in metaphor, which is actually THE trademark of an apocalypse.

Masta Thief
2007-05-13, 01:02
And I think you're a troll, a bad one at that. Oh i see you've made some spelling mistakes....shall I help you out and edit your posts again?

No no don't thank me, all part of the job.


And yet you avoided the arguement, so like a lib to do!

Hexadecimal
2007-05-13, 03:32
And yet you avoided the arguement, so like a lib to do!

You didn't make an argument. You insulted jack and then the intelligence of anyone who happens to have agreeing views. Good argument there, a clear thesis, clear support, and a clear conclusion! :rolleyes:

Jove
2007-05-13, 17:28
Lets stop arse raping Revelations.

[...]

You are by far one of the most entertaining Mods here...

Jove
2007-05-13, 17:34
His message was a recording of his current world. It's about Rome and its attempt to erase Christianity. An apocalypse is defined as a 'revealing', not in the fortune teller sense, but in the education sense. It was a work to be understood by his intended audience, not the Romans.

It was indeed an uplifting message, but its delivery is dark because it's the world as is prior to what the world is hoped to be when Christianity comes out on top of Rome.

It was a cryptic revolutionist writing.

The book is quite obviously speaking of Rome... Revelation 17:9 "And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth".... the 7 hills of Rome.

boozehound420
2007-05-13, 20:17
And yet you avoided the arguement, so like a lib to do!

If you weren a troll i would find a video of your current president dodging 100's of questions

jackketch
2007-05-13, 21:46
The book is quite obviously speaking of Rome... Revelation 17:9 "And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth".... the 7 hills of Rome.

Lol Ya think?

But strange as it may seem, the City of Jerusalem as it existed in the time of Christ Jesus was also reckoned to be the "City of Seven Hills." This fact was well recognized in Jewish circles. In the Pirke de-Rabbi Eliezer, an eighth century midrashic narrative (section 10), the writer mentioned without commentary (showing that the understanding was well known and required no defense) that "Jerusalem is situated on seven hills" (recorded in The Book of Legends, edited by Bialik and Ravnitzky, p. 371, paragraph 111). And, so it was. Those "seven hills" are easy to identify. If one starts with the Mount of Olives just to the east of the main City of Jerusalem (but still reckoned to be located within the environs of Jerusalem), there are three summits to that Mount of Olives. The northern summit (hill) is called Scopus [Hill One], the middle summit (hill) was called Nob [Hill Two], the highest point of Olivet itself, and the southern summit (hill) was called in the Holy Scriptures the "Mount of Corruption" or "Mount of Offence" [Hill Three] (II Kings 23:13). On the middle ridge between the Kedron and the Tyropoeon Valleys there was (formerly) in the south "Mount Zion" [Hill Four] (the original "Mount Zion" and not the later southwest hill that was later called by that name), then the "Ophel Mount" [Hill Five] and then to the north of that the "Rock" around which "Fort Antonia" was built [Hill Six]. And finally, there was the southwest hill itself [Hill Seven] that finally became known in the time of Simon the Hasmonean as the new "Mount Zion." This makes "Seven Hills" in all.-www.askelm.com

Jove
2007-05-13, 22:02
Lol Ya think?

-www.askelm.com

Hmmm, ya learn something new everyday.... thanx.

Source
2007-05-17, 18:35
If you weren a troll i would find a video of your current president dodging 100's of questions
With skill, hahaha.

http://www.shoutwire.com/viewstory/68205/Bush_s_Hidden_Ear_Piece_Goes_Dead

H a r o l d
2007-05-17, 23:52
Everyone knows that some dumbass dropout

I know dropouts that are literally many times smarter than you, dumbfuck troll.

SAMMY249
2007-05-19, 22:26
7 is also the number of perfection so what if there are 7 hills in Rome its a coincidence Paul was writing to churches that were located in modern day Turkey. Jack Harold and Hex are all basing their argument on coincidental evidence just like evolution.

jackketch
2007-05-19, 22:35
7 is also the number of perfection so what if there are 7 hills in Rome its a coincidence Paul was writing to churches that were located in modern day Turkey. Jack Harold and Hex are all basing their argument on coincidental evidence just like evolution.

Paul???! Did I miss something?

SAMMY249
2007-05-19, 22:44
Paul???! Did I miss something?

Apparently you are currently missisng your brain please go and find it then post something with substance and a valid point.

jackketch
2007-05-19, 23:51
Apparently you are currently missisng your brain please go and find it then post something with substance and a valid point.

So it wasn't just a typo on your part, you really think Paul wrote the Revelation Of St. John?

okies....

SAMMY249
2007-05-20, 01:20
So it wasn't just a typo on your part, you really think Paul wrote the Revelation Of St. John?

okies....


The author of Revelation identifies himself several times as "John" (1:1, 4, 9; 22:8). The author also states that he was in exile on the island of Patmos when he received his first vision (1:9; 4:1–2). As a result the author of Revelation is referred to as John of Patmos. John explicitly addresses Revelation to seven churches of Asia Minor: Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea (1:4, 11). All of these sites are located in what is now Turkey.

uio3q
2007-05-20, 06:46
okies....

I like the way you invent words on the fly Ketch, you are truly one hilarious moderator.

Come on...make a word for me, will ya?:D