I've found in this world that atheism is seen more and more as a pompous following. Christians make a big deal out of atheist gatherings. I can't join an atheist group on facebook without having one renegade Christian in there saying "u r goin to hell lul." I've made this, I guess, to clear some things up. I am an atheist in practice, and I guess you could say I'm a pompous prick. What I don't get, however, is why Christians who shove their religion in the face of others aren't greeted with the same animosity.

Lately, I've been seeing a sharp decline of Christianity in metropolan areas. People in the big city seem to be around more varying viewpoints, this leads them with the facts to chose. People in rural cities, though, tend to be more hardline Christian. Whenever I go to some of my old towns, I see people who make fun of me for being atheist. It's almost like they think I'm a demon, now. They treat me like shit, yet I'm the pompous one? Go figure.

I've been doing a lot of research into religion. I daresay I know more about Christianity than 99.99% of all Christians (thanks to years of youth group, bible camp and bible readings), but I'm the one they call blind. I just find it kind of funny. I was scared as hell to come out as an atheist, because I knew people would start treating me like shit. My step-dads first words to me were "oh, too smart for Jesus, huh?" like I was straying from my religion because I thought it would somehow make me look intelligent or cool. My mother always agreed with me, but I lost all of my friends except one who left with me.

I guess all I'm trying to say is: Being atheist in a Christian world sucks. We get more verbally attacked than virtually anyone else anywhere in the world. We're mistrusted, seen as threatening and we got an immensely bad rep. It was hard enough to come out as atheist/agnostic, it was even harder to defend myself.

My mother's priest/vicar (I've forgotten the correct term :p) seems to like to use the term "arrogant atheist" a lot, yet what's more arrogant than being convinced you have discovered a book that explains everything in the universe and that you are 100% right and going to heaven and everyone else is going to hell, even though there's no evidence whatsoever?

I don't think the stereotypical Christian knows anything close to 'the truth'. Neither do atheists.

I guess all I'm trying to say is: Being atheist in a Christian world sucks. We get more verbally attacked than virtually anyone else anywhere in the world. We're mistrusted, seen as threatening and we got an immensely bad rep.

I'd imagine being an Arabic Muslim in a Christian world would suck even more at this point in time. Unless you are an Arabic Muslim that owns an oil field. Then you would be a VIP in the Christain world.

See, Christians see each other as pompous too, it's just that since they agree on the religion issue their petty bullshit is about other things (even variations of their faith!). Your overt difference happens to be the religious belief, so that's where the proud and pitiful try to judge you. I'd suggest doing your best not to follow suit - remain humble and just be glad that you have the balls to keep truckin' even when it seems like the whole world is against you. And lastly, don't let the journey stall on atheism. There is much more thinking to do. :) Keep your eyes peeled and your thoughts sharp.

I guess all I'm trying to say is: Being atheist in a Christian world sucks. We get more verbally attacked than virtually anyone else anywhere in the world. We're mistrusted, seen as threatening and we got an immensely bad rep. It was hard enough to come out as atheist/agnostic, it was even harder to defend myself.

Give me a break stop masturbating yourself. I'm not religious BTW.

Give me a break stop masturbating yourself. I'm not religious BTW.

I'm not trying to blow my own horn or anything *beep beep,* but I'm tired of people acting like everyone who's atheist is going to be pretentious. It's just not logical. I realize that people have a lot bigger problems than me (black people, for one) but I just hate the reputation that atheists have.

It's just not logical.

To be fair, lots of atheists make stereotypical generalizations about Christians (and other organized religions) too. I can agree with what yango wango is saying too...

In case you're wondering, I'm not a Christian or an Atheist. I try to avoid uniting myself with organized beliefs...but if you wanted an idea, I suppose you could call me somewhat agnostic/pantheistic...

In case you're wondering, I'm not a Christian or an Atheist. I try to avoid uniting myself with organized beliefs...but if you wanted an idea, I suppose you could call me somewhat agnostic/pantheistic...

How the fuck is atheism organized beliefs? It's a disbelief and that's it.

I suppose atheists are portrayed as pompous pricks because we usually tend to have the right answers and right questions to ask a person of faith or belief, and they are usually unprepared and uneducated and have a lot of dumb things to say to you. You will definitely come off as pompous if you can easily destroy somebodies life's beliefs in a few sentences, whether or not they choose to believe you is up to them. Being pompous is all about rubbing it in there faces about how dumb they are.

I'm an atheist.

Atheists are pompous pricks in the same way as a person schooled in math is a pompous prick when he adds up dollar bills in the presence of the uneducated; or the same way that a literate person is a pompous prick when caught reading by the illiterate.

How the fuck is atheism organized beliefs? It's a disbelief and that's it.

well hey, I guess you're right.

but its still a...i dunno. A thingy.

A word used to describe a lot about yourself, without going into great detail.

Even though I don't believe in some toga-wearing bearded old man living in the clouds, I still have my beliefs. I'm defiantly not atheist. I think summing up personal conclusions about reality, and aligning myself with groups usually recognized by others for stereotypical traits, totally ruins the whole point of trying to figure out what reality is to me.

I'm personally not an atheist, because I think being an atheist is like knowing only half the truth. Someone who has figured out the stupidity of organized religion, but has also decided based on that to give up on any spirituality.

I don't like referring to my beliefs as somewhat agnostic/pantheistic either, but thats as close as I can get without having to type out great lengths of text to explain everything, basically making a 'bible' of my beliefs....

...Now theres an idea. I should start a cult.

A word used to describe a lot about yourself, without going into great detail.

Where exactly do you get this from?

I'm personally not an atheist, because I think being an atheist is like knowing only half the truth. Someone who has figured out the stupidity of organized religion, but has also decided based on that to give up on any spirituality.
No, being an atheist is simply not being a theist. It says nothing about not being spiritual. This is connotation you're bringing to the word.

No, being an atheist is simply not being a theist. It says nothing about not being spiritual. This is connotation you're bringing to the word.

Aw, you said it before I could. :(

Atheists are pompous pricks in the same way as a person schooled in math is a pompous prick when he adds up dollar bills in the presence of the uneducated; or the same way that a literate person is a pompous prick when caught reading by the illiterate.

You're halfway to the truth - it's that "I'm better than you, you ignorant piece of shit" attitude the shooled person has in the presence of the uneducated or the literate person takes on in the presence of the illiterate that makes them consider atheists pompous pricks.

What I'm seeing is a whole lot of bullshit generalizing going on. Atheists don't all act that way, nor do Christians. Quite a lot of both do, however... one group doing its obnoxious vocalization online while the other does it in real life. Neither is better than the other.

What I'm seeing is a whole lot of bullshit generalizing going on. Atheists don't all act that way, nor do Christians. Quite a lot of both do, however... one group doing its obnoxious vocalization online while the other does it in real life. Neither is better than the other.

I have found that most Christians don't even believe in the stuff they are suppose to. Either its a lack of actual education on the subject or they just don't care. Christianity is a religion of convenience and not caring is very convenient. Most Christians just say they believe in stuff just because they feel it is the right thing to say. However, most Atheists are quick to jump down a person's neck if they say they believe in that stuff. When in reality, the person doesn't actually believe in any of it and only said otherwise because they thought it was the right thing to say.

It's kind of like they are giving into peer pressure. It's easier for them to pretend to believe amongst their peers rather than try to take them all on as an opposition. But the irony of the matter is that most of the peers feel the same way and are doing the exact same thing because of their shared fear of being singled out. Really... Christians are known for saying shit like "if you want to meet a nice person that is marriage material, look for them in church." People actually goto church to look for a mate rather than go to worship some graven image like the church is intended for. The father is at the alter preaching about not giving into temptations while the individual is in the crowd checking for people of the opposite sex that they can see themselves fucking.

Where exactly do you get this from?

Um...no where. It was just my impression of what those types of terms describe.

No, being an atheist is simply not being a theist. It says nothing about not being spiritual. This is connotation you're bringing to the word.

Forgive me, I made a mistake then.

Maybe I'm just mistaken in the terms I think relate towards my beliefs. I think I'm a theist...because I think God is basically all, infinity, everything, the '10th dimension', etc...and I also think everything has a consciousness, just many things do not have as high a level of awareness as us. I also think that there are things that have higher levels of awareness then us...and that we are as incapable of detecting them, as plants are of detecting us.

All this consciousness, at the tenth dimension, would be 'the mind of god'. But I don't tend to think of that as an entity really, or a being. Just the highest, most complete and complex state of collective-consciousness and matter. Or I don't know. It would be self aware, so maybe that makes it an entity?

By either of those definitions of God, does that make me a theist or an atheist?

And I don't think any of that is provable, so am I correct in saying I'm agnostic?

Either way...I am still correct that while lots of Christians may stereotype and generalize atheists, lots of atheists do the same thing with christians. We've all seen it in this forum. Most of it probably stems from lack of correct information, like my incorrect impression of the accepted definition of atheism.

Nobody's going to tell me?

Then I'm just going to continue to assume that I am closest to agnostic/pantheist. But I don't think theres some old guy somewhere deciding what to make, or counting how many times I jack off.

Even though I don't believe in some toga-wearing bearded old man living in the clouds, I still have my beliefs. I'm defiantly not atheist. I think summing up personal conclusions about reality, and aligning myself with groups usually recognized by others for stereotypical traits, totally ruins the whole point of trying to figure out what reality is to me.

I'm personally not an atheist, because I think being an atheist is like knowing only half the truth. Someone who has figured out the stupidity of organized religion, but has also decided based on that to give up on any spirituality.

I don't like referring to my beliefs as somewhat agnostic/pantheistic either, but thats as close as I can get without having to type out great lengths of text to explain everything, basically making a 'bible' of my beliefs.....

I believe the label you're looking for is agnostic. I've been told that agnosticism is just a form of weak atheism, but I'm skeptical as the source is an internet discussion group and your form agnosticism seems to gravitate in the direction of belief.

My own particular beliefs are agnostic as well as I consider any claim for or against the existence of a god to be an exercise in futility when neither can be substantiated.

As for favored theories - I personally like the variants of panpsychism, the universe as an organism, the best. I can't give it anymore credibility than any other belief system, but I have a hard time buying into the Big Bang theory and the origins that are speculated to have come from it... with about the same level of skepticism I have for a benevolent and loving Creator who is completely unwilling to take a continued hand in shaping his creation.

agnosticism = we cannot know whether or not there is a God.
strong theism = absolute belief that there is a God
weak theism = says you can't know whether there is or is not a God, since it is non-falsifiable, but believes anyway for whatever reason the weak theist gives.
strong atheism = absolute belief that there is no God
weak atheism (agnostic-atheism) = says you can't know whether there is or is not a God, since it is non-falsifiable, but doesn't believe because there is no evidence


I fit into the fifth category, since I've seen no evidence for a personal being (monotheism and polytheism), the universe having some consciousness that permeates and or runs everything (a form of pantheism), said consciousness going beyond the universe (panentheism) and think that simply relabeling the universe "god" even though you don't believe it to be a conscious being (another form of pantheism) is pointless and dumb.

Nobody's going to tell me?

Then I'm just going to continue to assume that I am closest to agnostic/pantheist. But I don't think theres some old guy somewhere deciding what to make, or counting how many times I jack off.

Oh you'd be suprised. There has been an old guy that has been watching you jack off since your preteen days. He's the guy that used to offer you candy when you were an adolescent. :eek:

http://adholes.com/docs/07059183947.jpg

To be fair, as everyone else has said, both sides have their pompous pricks.

Personally I get around it by not really thinking about it directly too hard. I'm not agnostic in that I don't think you can know anything about God... I ... Just see no point in arguing it as truth either way. I;ve never exprienced God, but theres a lot of things I've never experienced, I've never seen any evidence for God, but there's a lot of things I've never seen evidence for.

*Shrugs* I'll think about it properly when I have to.

weak theism = says you can't know whether there is or is not a God, since it is non-falsifiable, but believes anyway for whatever reason the weak theist gives.

It seems my label is this. As long as God doesn't have to be some individual existing outside of reality, with some retarded 'plan'.


...think that simply relabeling the universe "god" even though you don't believe it to be a conscious being (another form of pantheism) is pointless and dumb.

Well, I'm not simply relabeling the universe. I'm including everything within the 'Tenth Dimension', which is well explained in this (http://www.tenthdimension.com/medialinks.php) video. I also believe this huge, unimaginable concept to be conscious, as I believe everything to be conscious.

But I think the consciousness that belongs to this 'God' is equal to that of 'Dimension Zero'...which would be purely awareness of existence. Anything that ever gets 'thought' of instantly collapses into another dimension...so all this 'God' really does is exist.

The part I had trouble with was trying to understand how my concept works with everyone else's excepted definition of God. Does God have to be some outside individual, with thoughts and desires of its own? Who 'did something' to create everything that is?

Everything is pointless, but I don't see how this concept is dumb. It makes perfect sense to me...maybe this concept is the very one the founders of the worlds religions meant when they spoke to others about God...and maybe its just the dogma and corruption these religions experience over the years that caused the original meaning to be lost.

He's the guy that used to offer you candy when you were an adolescent.

...God's fucking creepy then.

Well, I'm not simply relabeling the universe.

Then that would mean you're the kind of pantheism that believes the universe is a conscious being or a panentheist, that believes in said time of pantheism but that the consciousness also goes beyond the universe too, if I've read what you said right. Meh, screw labels. It's so much easier, although longer, to state what you believe in detail instead of using a single word that people bring loads of connotations to.

It's so much easier, although longer, to state what you believe in detail instead of using a single word that people bring loads of connotations to.

Yes. Too bad its so hard to communicate a complex idea in a way others can understand correctly.

...believes in said time of pantheism but that the consciousness also goes beyond the universe too...

well I'm defiantly not that.

I don't understand how anything could be outside the tenth dimension. Or why there would be a need for a creator of it...I mean there is no 'before' or 'after' at the tenth dimension. Time is a concept within it. So my understanding of it, is that it just is. Not 'it has always been', because there is no time. It just is.

Thats the same reason why it exists without something to create it...it exists, because if it did not there would be nothing. Thats the other half of the balance. Theres nothing, complete empty space...and then theres everything else. One cannot exist without the other.

Maybe. Thats saying nothing exists, :D

I hate both the diehard christians and atheists. They're both as ignorant and close-minded as eachother.

I hate both the diehard christians and atheists. They're both as ignorant and close-minded as eachother.

No, they aren't.

No, they aren't.

They are. A hard line atheist will deny outright any kind of argument for God, a hard line christian will ignore any argument and evidence against God.

The only difference between them both is that one uses physical evidence and the other uses faith based evidence. Personally, I can't really see much differant between either.

You're only "pompous" as a defense mechanism... its purely natural. If you get constantly attacked for your beliefs you will develop such a thing. Which is why (funny enough) that Christians (or any religious group) can be pompous as well.

Kind of like how black people are real militant now... stems from the same thing.

"They are. A hard line atheist will deny outright any kind of argument for God, a hard line christian will ignore any argument and evidence against God.

The only difference between them both is that one uses physical evidence and the other uses faith based evidence. Personally, I can't really see much different between either."

There are stupid atheists out there, but I think that many atheists come off as whatever this "hardline" stereotype you've constructed because they're able to easily refute whatever arguments religionists throw at them.

I know that Christians in particular like to throw out things like Pascal's Wager and pretend like they've somehow made a case for their beliefs.

The sad fact of the matter is that when a smaller group is able to completely debunk whatever nonsense the larger group believes, they're going to automatically label the smaller group as wrong anyway simply because they are able.

A hard line atheist will deny outright any kind of argument for God

Arguments? There's absolutely no rational reason to believe in anything you claim and there's 0 proof for God's existence. Go discover some proof and then say that they're closed minded. Emotions aren't proof

Do you also keep an open mind about tooth fairy's existence? She just might exist, you can't prove it, irrefutable logic nyannyanyaa

^Exactly. Show me some varifiable proof that a god -any god- exists and I will believe it exists, because at that point there will be reason to do so.

Actually, if you have that proof don't show me. Go show a scientist, get it peer reviewed and published, and I guarantee you there will be a Nobel Prize in it for you.

There's absolutely no rational reason to believe in anything you claim and there's 0 proof for God's existence.

No proof of God doesn't prove there isn't one.

I wouldn't call any of the information which has lead me to my concept of God evidence...but I would call my concept the most sensible way of explaining that information.

"No proof of God doesn't prove there isn't one."

No, it simply means there's no reason to believe one exists. If we went around trying to "disprove" everything that people pull out of their asses, we'd never get anything accomplished. That's not how science works.

"I wouldn't call any of the information which has lead me to my concept of God evidence...but I would call my concept the most sensible way of explaining that information."

Then you believe because you like the idea and want it to be true. That doesn't *make* it true, and frankly people like you should be laughed at. If you're over the age of 8 and you still think Santa Claus is real because he sounds like a good idea to you, then you deserve to get laughed at... same deal.

No, it simply means there's no reason to believe one exists.

Theres plenty of reason to believe in my concept.

Then you believe because you like the idea and want it to be true. That doesn't *make* it true, and frankly people like you should be laughed at.

I do like the idea, but I don't want anything more then an explanation. My concept is accomplishes that in a very sensible manner. I should be laughed at for arriving at a conclusion about the nature of reality that could actually work and make sense?

I don't 'want' it to be true, it just makes the most sense, and is therefore the best choice. All in my opinion that is.

"Theres plenty of reason to believe in my concept."

I seriously doubt that. However, I look forward to an explaination that is either outright ridiculous or consists entirely of words redefined to mean whatever you'd like them to mean.

"I do like the idea, but I don't want anything more then an explanation. My concept is accomplishes that in a very sensible manner. I should be laughed at for arriving at a conclusion about the nature of reality that could actually work and make sense?

I don't 'want' it to be true, it just makes the most sense, and is therefore the best choice. All in my opinion that is."

If your "concept" makes sense, go to a University and tell them immediately. But since you won't, you can tell me.

No proof of God doesn't prove there isn't one.

No proof of Tooth Fairy doesn't prove there isn't one.

It's the most likely reason to my teeth disappearing from under my pillow and being replaced by coins. It just makes sense you know? I don't expect you do agree since ur stupit prrrffft

I seriously doubt that. However, I look forward to an explaination that is either outright ridiculous or consists entirely of words redefined to mean whatever you'd like them to mean.

The only word I've really redefined is God...but thats what this concept is. A different way of understanding reality and 'god'.

I've already explained the concept over a few posts in this thread. Go back and read again if it you missed them. If you don't understand it, or if something seems missing, then simply ask me.

And yes, there is plenty of reason. Reason is not evidence. If someone suspiciously shifts their eyes when being subjected to a line of questioning, is it evidence they're lying, or reason to believe that? If a cop pulls you over and smells weed in the car, is that evidence you were driving high, or reason to believe so? I'm not saying my concept is the truth; otherwise I wouldn't call it a concept.

I agree with you that existence of God cannot be proven. I have already stated I am agnostic. And yes, there is plenty of reason to believe my concept. Its called String Theory. Theory, hence why this is not evidence.

If your "concept" makes sense, go to a University and tell them immediately. But since you won't, you can tell me.

I said it makes sense, in my opinion. From my perspective. What do I care about what a University, or some agitators on totse think of it?

Listen to this: At what point did I say my concept is the correct concept? At what point did I say I was going to prove it?

This sad argument started when I said No proof of God doesn't prove there isn't one. Thats true. If you think the absence of proof is reason enough (or absent of enough reason) to not believe in my concept of God then fine. I never said I cared, either way. I'm not the type to push opinions on others.

No proof of Tooth Fairy doesn't prove there isn't one.

It's the most likely reason to my teeth disappearing from under my pillow and being replaced by coins. It just makes sense you know? I don't expect you do agree since ur stupit prrrffft

Nice...

..and on topic, which side of this is being prickish? The theist (me) or the atheists (Pilsu, Surak)?

Honestly though, its okay. If you're still loosing teeth, then I don't expect you to be able to grasp my concept anyway :).

atheists (Pilsu

Fail.

The only difference between them both is that one uses physical evidence and the other uses faith based evidence. Personally, I can't really see much differant between either.
:confused: You sure?

What is faith based "evidence"? Children really believe in santa, do they have "faith based evidence"? It's an oxymoron too

Fail.

Not atheist?

My fault for assuming that...based on:

There's absolutely no rational reason to believe in anything you claim and there's 0 proof for God's existence. Do you also keep an open mind about tooth fairy's existence? She just might exist, you can't prove it, irrefutable logic nyannyanyaa

...but either way, you're still a prick.

The difference between you and me is that I don't pretend to make sense as far as my beliefs nor do I suggest that others are ignorant for not agreeing with my baseless beliefs

Oh sorry your highness, did I insult you in some way? I'm sure Tooth Fair.. ahem, GOD, exists and you're not being ridiculous for refusing to "share" this almighty proof with us while claiming you're right, relying on the very "proof" that you can't or rather, won't show to us

People think Atheists are arrogant pricks because many of them feel entitled to try and debase other peoples beliefs - oftentimes who have held such strong beliefs for a lifetime. The same can be true for Christians...I am technically a Catholic, but I'm not sure what I believe...Sometimes I lean towards Atheism sometimes I don't, but I never feel entitled to try and debase somebody else's belief structure. If you do this, no matter if you're Atheist/Christian/Jewis/Muslim - then you are a pompous asshat.

The difference between you and me is that I don't pretend to make sense as far as my beliefs nor do I suggest that others are ignorant for not agreeing with my baseless beliefs

I'm not pretending...they do make sense, to me as I have said. It is very difficult to put them into understandable words, but I have tried in earlier posts. Go back and read them if you missed them.

And show where I have suggested others are ignorant for not sharing my beliefs. I'm not the one slinging insults around.

And again, I stated I am agnostic, and have stated I have no evidence to present. String theory, multiple dimensional consciousness theory, and trying to see what the traditional messages in old religions once were is basically how I got to this concept, which to me makes sense.

Oh sorry your highness, did I insult you in some way? I'm sure Tooth Fair.. ahem, GOD, exists and you're not being ridiculous for refusing to "share" this almighty proof with us while claiming you're right, relying on the very "proof" that you can't or rather, won't show to us

:confused:

I am not claiming to be right, and I do not claim to have proof. If you're going to put words in my mouth, then theres no point to continue talking to you.

I said there is plenty of reason. Like the Many Worlds Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many_worlds_theory), and other theories that contribute to String Theory. This video (http://www.tenthdimension.com/medialinks.php) (that I have already posted) also has helped shape my concept. I have read the book, too.

I won't go into multiple dimensional consciousness here, but if you're that interested google it. And as far as reason to believe in 'The void', or 'god-mind', or the unity of all, Ian Goddard creates a good one here (http://www.erowid.org/spirit/writings/spirit_writings1.shtml).

Since you have so much trouble understanding that this is not evidence, and I am not claiming it to be, I'm going to write it again very clearly. This is not evidence and I am not claiming any of it as that. Especially not the last link, as some do not agree with the terminology used.

Edit - oh...and Bokononism probably helped too.

I'm not the one slinging insults around.

you're still a prick.

Okay, if you say so

insults around. :o...well, I wasn't.
Okay, if you say so

I do. You are.

The cool thing about being an atheist is the ability to keep it under your hat when it suits you, unlike being black/mexican/etc.

How the fuck is atheism organized beliefs? It's a disbelief and that's it.

It's not a disbelief as far as I define it, it's the lack of a belief.

Someone summed it up brilliantly, it's a belief as much as not collecting stamps is a hobby.

I'd imagine being an Arabic Muslim in a Christian world would suck even more at this point in time. Unless you are an Arabic Muslim that owns an oil field. Then you would be a VIP in the Christain world.

I vaguely remember a poll showing that atheists are trusted even less than Arabic Muslims.

And lastly, don't let the journey stall on atheism. There is much more thinking to do. :) Keep your eyes peeled and your thoughts sharp.

QFT

5characters

I vaguely remember a poll showing that atheists are trusted even less than Arabic Muslims.

OMG... if someone can find this poll and show it is scientifically credible, I will then lose all hope for humanity. If we count committed acts of violence as a ratio between indoctrinated religious people vs non-theists, the ratio has got to be at least a few million to one. Thats at the very least. It could be billions to one. I seriously have nothing against Muslims or anyone of indoctrinated faith, but just being logically realistic about the matter, Atheists should be placed pretty high up there in terms of trustworthiness.

People don't look at statistics when they decide whether you're trustworthy. They see you as a threat to their beliefs and treat you as such. Just lie about it, what do you stand to lose?

Simply being the minority would give you the ratio you spew. Don't pretend you're not a human like everyone else. As if the lack of irrational fear of divine retribution would somehow help you behave

I never said I cared, either way. I'm not the type to push opinions on others.

Yet you jump that the chance to make comments such as "No proof of God doesn't prove there isn't one", when nobody in this thread has said otherwise.

I seriously have nothing against Muslims or anyone of indoctrinated faith, but just being logically realistic about the matter, Atheists should be placed pretty high up there in terms of trustworthiness.

I have to agree with that statement, for obvious reasons. We can't even lie to ourselves - how could we possibly stoop to lying to others?

;)

Yet you jump that the chance to make comments such as "No proof of God doesn't prove there isn't one", when nobody in this thread has said otherwise.

Voicing my opinion is not the same as pushing it.

I never said anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.

It was simply a response to:

There's absolutely no rational reason to believe in anything you claim and there's 0 proof for God's existence.

I don't think anyone in the thread claimed to have proof...

And I later stated how I didn't care if others shared that belief with me or not.

I also haven't been claiming others beliefs to be false through childish games:

It's the most likely reason to my teeth disappearing from under my pillow and being replaced by coins. It just makes sense you know? I don't expect you do agree since ur stupit prrrffft

And claiming others have said things which they have not:

Oh sorry your highness, did I insult you in some way? I'm sure Tooth Fair.. ahem, GOD, exists and you're not being ridiculous for refusing to "share" this almighty proof with us while claiming you're right, relying on the very "proof" that you can't or rather, won't show to us

I also haven't been claiming others beliefs to be false through childish games:

Childish or no, it worked wonderfully to illustrate the point. Why is Tooth Fairy ridiculous and God isn't? Both "do" things which you later discover to be the cause of something completely different. Only real difference is the universe not telling you're a sucker when you get older

Childish or no, it worked wonderfully to illustrate the point. Why is Tooth Fairy ridiculous and God isn't? Both "do" things which you later discover to be the cause of something completely different. Only real difference is the universe not telling you're a sucker when you get older

I completely agree with that about the Christian God, and Gods from other religions...but I think thats because the true meaning has been lost over thousands of years of using religion to control the masses, altering it, the build up of dogma.

Personally, I think my concept is close to what the old religions meant to teach, before corruption. It makes perfect sense, to me...any thing "done" by this concept makes great sense. To me at least.

OMG... if someone can find this poll and show it is scientifically credible, I will then lose all hope for humanity. If we count committed acts of violence as a ratio between indoctrinated religious people vs non-theists, the ratio has got to be at least a few million to one. Thats at the very least. It could be billions to one. I seriously have nothing against Muslims or anyone of indoctrinated faith, but just being logically realistic about the matter, Atheists should be placed pretty high up there in terms of trustworthiness.

http://www.ur.umn.edu/FMPro?-db=releases&-lay=web&-format=umnnewsreleases/releasesdetail.html&ID=2816&-Find

There you go.

People don't look at statistics when they decide whether you're trustworthy. They see you as a threat to their beliefs and treat you as such. Just lie about it, what do you stand to lose?

Simply being the minority would give you the ratio you spew. Don't pretend you're not a human like everyone else. As if the lack of irrational fear of divine retribution would somehow help you behave

no, people don't look at statistics. Statistics look at PEOPLE who have their own reasons. And no, muslims are definitly another minority in america, but that doesn't mean that they're untrusted. Hell, even a racist would probably say that you should get a jew to manage your money. Trust isn't a ratio; a country could be overrun with a demographic and the citizens could hate all of them.

And yes, I don't need an invisible hand in the sky to "enforce" some fucked sense of morality. Will I cruelly torture someone because they were gay or a "heretic"? No. In that sense, I'd say that I behave BETTER without some hand of god telling me its okay to rape my wife and that I should go kill, sorry, "smite", whoever my leaders tell me to.

Voicing my opinion is not the same as pushing it.

I never said anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.

It was simply a response to:


Right, you're not "pushing" your opinions, you're just making strawmans since nobody had said that 'No proof of God proved there isn't one'. I confuse the two...


I don't think anyone in the thread claimed to have proof...Which is a very good reason to not believe in their claims; hence why the people you were replying to said exactly that.

To reply to them with the comment "No proof of God doesn't prove there isn't one" is much more than just "voicing your opinion"; it's creating a strawman since they hadn't said otherwise.


And I later stated how I didn't care if others shared that belief with me or not....

I also haven't been claiming others beliefs to be false through childish games:
...
And claiming others have said things which they have not:

Neat. Good for you.

There is no such thing as a disbelief in God.

You either believe in him or you are ignorant of him.

Atheism is ego-centric stubborness, that is all.

Atheism is being the Demiurge.

The Demiurge afterall, was an atheist, he didn't see anything above himself.

ps: atheists tend to lie a LOT more, IME. it's a part of being the demiurge, you have to impose your subjective reality upon the world...and then you suffer the consequences. :eek:

"There is no such thing as a disbelief in God.

You either believe in him or you are ignorant of him."

*Sigh.* Wrong. I know of many gods. All of them are fictional, and to varying degrees utterly retarded.

"Atheism is ego-centric stubborness, that is all."

It may seem that way to you, being wrong and all. The fact is, you and those like you do nothing but make rediculous claims based on fiction, with nothing tangible to back them up. Were it not for the fact that atheists were criminally outnumbered by emotionally-driven dimwits, "atheist" would not be a word, or even a concept to be thought about.

"The Demiurge afterall, was an atheist, he didn't see anything above himself."

Again with the claims based on fiction. This should have gotten old *long* before my time.

"ps: atheists tend to lie a LOT more, IME. it's a part of being the demiurge, you have to impose your subjective reality upon the world...and then you suffer the consequences. "

Strawman. Atheists don't lie more than anyone else. I've actually been told I'm truthful to the point of offense on a few occasions. But hey, nobody's perfect.

There is no such thing as a disbelief in God.

You either believe in him or you are ignorant of him.

Atheism is ego-centric stubborness, that is all.

Atheism is being the Demiurge.

The Demiurge afterall, was an atheist, he didn't see anything above himself.

ps: atheists tend to lie a LOT more, IME. it's a part of being the demiurge, you have to impose your subjective reality upon the world...and then you suffer the consequences. :eek:

:D

Are you still doing something with that site? Still need a writer?

I never realized Rizzo was this fucking retarded before. X¬D

Welp, you learn something new everyday, and I believe Surak has covered almost everything.

There is no such thing as a disbelief in God.

You either believe in him or you are ignorant of him.

Congratulations on making a non-falsifiable claim. Why is it non-falsifiable? Because there's no case when it can be proven wrong, since if someone says they don't believe, you can merely claim they're either ignorant of the "true god" or arrogant atheists. You've yet to prove this God too, showing just how non-falsifiable it is.

Atheism is ego-centric stubborness, that is all.

Theism is ego-centric stubborness, that is all. They say God has chosen them, has a "special mission" for them, and a special place where the non-chosen can't go because the chosen are so great they deserve their own special place! See how easy it is to make up bullshit psychology?

...and then you suffer the consequences. :eek:

Pray tell ... what consequences? You're speaking in riddles again, without the rhyme or reason added in.

Pray tell ... what consequences? You're speaking in riddles again, without the rhyme or reason added in.

I presume he speaks of the consequences anyone faces when they imagine a problem and dedicate their lives to fixing it. You waste your effort trying to better something that's already the best it can be, going mad with failure until you either break and admit IT is not broken, YOU are...or you hold steadfast in your stubbornness and go completely mad. Welcome to psychosis. :D

I think he falters when he pins it on whether or not one believes, though. Pride and pity can affect anyone, not just those who don't believe in gods.

Those that have eyes, see! Those that have ears, listen!

What I say is true.

What you say is true.

There is no need for arguing.

Obbe: Yes, although I haven't done anything with the site in several weeks. If I can get your email I will contact you in a few days. I would love to have you write for my site!


*Sigh.* Wrong. I know of many gods. All of them are fictional, and to varying degrees utterly retarded.

Yes, you know of many gods, the same way I know that there are millions of galaxies out there. I know God like I know the Sun and the Moon.

It may seem that way to you, being wrong and all.

I am not wrong. No one is wrong. There are merely different degrees of right.

The fact is, you and those like you

Like me?

but make rediculous claims

Ridiculous, my friend. Ridiculous.

based on fiction, with nothing tangible to back them up.

It is called experience.

Were it not for the fact that atheists were criminally outnumbered by emotionally-driven dimwits, "atheist" would not be a word, or even a concept to be thought about.

You are responsible for your own subjective reality. You are responsible for atheism being a concept to be thought about.


Again with the claims based on fiction. This should have gotten old *long* before my time.

Fiction? If you mean, "not real", well, NOTHING is truly real. Everything has degrees of realness.

Strawman. Atheists don't lie more than anyone else. I've actually been told I'm truthful to the point of offense on a few occasions. But hey, nobody's perfect.

I was talking about myself. I was an atheist/nihilist for five solid years. And I was hardcore, too. I argued/thought about it every other half hour. I honestly think I thought more about God then than I do now. :p


I never realized Rizzo was this fucking retarded before. X¬D


Judge not, lest ye' be judged...


Congratulations on making a non-falsifiable claim. Why is it non-falsifiable? Because there's no case when it can be proven wrong, since if someone says they don't believe, you can merely claim they're either ignorant of the "true god" or arrogant atheists. You've yet to prove this God too, showing just how non-falsifiable it is.

Nothing can be proven wrong, there are varying degrees of rightness.

Why should god be falsifiable? Should he bleed, too? Should he cry? Should he become something that you can measure, something that you can bottle up? Should he be something that you can conquer, something that you can stick a flag in?

I think not.

Theism is ego-centric stubborness, that is all.

It is nice that you think that, but you would not really know.

They say God has chosen them, has a "special mission" for them, and a special place where the non-chosen can't go because the chosen are so great they deserve their own special place! See how easy it is to make up bullshit psychology?

Why is it you have to use THE WORST example of theists for everything? Can't you see you just have a grudge?

...and then you suffer the consequences.
Pray tell ... what consequences? You're speaking in riddles again, without the rhyme or reason added in.

It is easy to see what I am saying. You impose your subjective reality on other people, your reality does not have enough power and your desires are not met. You suffer.

I presume he speaks of the consequences anyone faces when they imagine a problem and dedicate their lives to fixing it. You waste your effort trying to better something that's already the best it can be, going mad with failure until you either break and admit IT is not broken, YOU are...or you hold steadfast in your stubbornness and go completely mad. Welcome to psychosis.

I am sorry, but I have no idea what you are talking about.


I think he falters when he pins it on whether or not one believes, though. Pride and pity can affect anyone, not just those who don't believe in gods.

This is true. But how much easier is it to be humble when you are surrounded by God...always?

Those that have eyes, see! Those that have ears, listen!

Those who be hittin' the pipe ... put it down, and see the world with clarity! BEGONE, the nonsense! DOWN with the double-speak! AWAY with the drug-addled philosophical musings!

You impose your subjective reality on other people

And you don't?

Those who be hittin' the pipe ... put it down, and see the world with clarity! BEGONE, the nonsense! DOWN with the double-speak! AWAY with the drug-addled philosophical musings!

Is that all you can say?

And you don't?

I do, but I am aware of it and try to do it as little as possible.

That's why I seem to speak so weird all the time, I am trying to get you the message behind the message.

Do not read my words.

Read what is in between the words.

Is that all you can say?

That's all I'm willing to say. It's a matter of desire, as you'd put it.

That's all I'm willing to say. It's a matter of desire, as you'd put it.

Does your desire control you, or do you control your desire?

Ha! This is what I'm not willing to participate in. It's like trying to hold a conversation with ate. Circles and circles and circles and circles ...

Rizzo,

Have you ever taken a step back, and had a good look at your religion?

It's based on a book, re written over and over by the church, and able to be interpreted any way the church leaders see fit. This is the same church that expects it's followers to continually fund it...

It's just a big money making scam. If you make a couple of minor changes, it could be Amway, or the next big pyramid scheme we read about in the paper.

Athiests spend their whole life looking for answers - some find them, some don't. They don't wander round with pre-conceived ideas that someone else has told them.

You have taken the easy way out and latched onto another group's answers so you don't have to do any thinking for yourself. I pity people like you, because you will never reach your full potential. If you are intelligent, it will always be hampered by this group of people telling you what to believe.

Please, at least take a step back and question a few things. If your church leaders don't have the answers, ask other church leaders. "God work in mysterious ways" is not an acceptable answer, unless you are a sheep. Go for a bushwalk, and climb a mountain. If there is a god, surely he's out in the open air away from those stuffy churches, and all those people telling you what to think.....

chump, I don't believe Rizzo subscribes to that kind of religion.

I could be wrong, but that is what I've surmised by reading his text up to this point.

chump, I don't believe Rizzo subscribes to that kind of religion.

I could be wrong, but that is what I've surmised by reading his text up to this point.

I just assumed she was a bible bashing god botherer.....

Whoops!

Have you ever taken a step back, and had a good look at your religion?

Holy shit, I have a religion?

well actually I DID have two cults. Three if you count the tribe. :p

It's based on a book,

Replace "book" with "experience with the divine".

re written over and over by the church, and able to be interpreted any way the church leaders see fit. This is the same church that expects it's followers to continually fund it...

I have nothing to do with churches.



It's just a big money making scam. If you make a couple of minor changes, it could be Amway, or the next big pyramid scheme we read about in the paper.

I try to get rid of money as soon as I get it.



Athiests spend their whole life looking for answers - some find them, some don't. They don't wander round with pre-conceived ideas that someone else has told them.


That would be agnostics. Atheists already know there isn't a God.

I try to learn as much as possible when I wander.



You have taken the easy way out and latched onto another group's answers so you don't have to do any thinking for yourself. I pity people like you, because you will never reach your full potential. If you are intelligent, it will always be hampered by this group of people telling you what to believe.

Um....

You have no idea who I am, do you?



Please, at least take a step back and question a few things. If your church leaders don't have the answers, ask other church leaders. "God work in mysterious ways" is not an acceptable answer, unless you are a sheep. Go for a bushwalk, and climb a mountain. If there is a god, surely he's out in the open air away from those stuffy churches, and all those people telling you what to think.....

Once again...You don't know me. Or my beliefs.

I just assumed she was a bible bashing god botherer.....

Whoops!

:eek:

What happened to the ol' atheist questionin' get-go? :p

You also assumed he was a "she"!

:D

Rizzo has one hanging. This is pure speculation on my part, as I've never actually seen it with my own eyes (nor do I care to).

But I'm pretty sure he pees standing up.

Maybe I'm just a bot designed to annoy you. :eek:

Nothing can be proven wrong, there are varying degrees of rightness.

Well your theory cannot be known to be true or false to any degree. It's like Freud saying a patient is repressing memories. Even if the patient isn't and says so, Freud will simply say he is but is in a state of denial. Therefore, to a third person, it's Freud's word against the patient's and the case becomes non-falsifiable. You're doing the same thing with your psychological argument. It's non-falsifiable and cannot be evaluated; not to mention that it relies upon a supernatural entity you've failed to prove the existence of (instead you ask stupid questions like "should it be put in a jar?" to try and turn the tables).

PS. The word "bachelor" means not married to anyone, so the following statement is false: he is married and a bachelor. This shows that some things can be proven false.

You're theory can't be proven true or false though, you give nothing to work with.

I give plenty to work with, you just can't see it. And that is you own fault.

It's like Freud saying you're repressing memories, and even if you're not and say you're not, he'll simply say you are and are in a state of denial, so to a third person, it's Freud's word against the patients. You're doing the same thing with your psychological argument. It's non-falsifiable and cannot be evaluated, plus it relies upon a supernatural entity you've failed to prove the existence of (instead you ask stupid questions like should it be put in a jar to try and turn the tables).

What?

Look, I'm not here to argue.

I am here to talk and have fun.

You can argue ALL you want.

The only table here is not going to be turned, as it is the one we sit at and have bread. Why turn them? Just switch seats.

The only supernatural is the natural which gives you great energy.

It CAN be evaluated, just not by science. You need to let go of others' opinions, man.

Maybe I'm just a bot designed to annoy you.
Nah, I think you're just a fucking retard who posits non-falsifiable psychological arguments.

Why so harsh?

I agree. Rizzo knows he's a dumb fucker talking out of his ass, in my opinion, yet talks utter vague bullshit in an attempt to look smart, just like ate. He even uses the same methods of asking stupid questions, etc. This is why I had the dick on ignore for so long and am probably going to put him back on it.

I think that you just don't understand me, and since you don't you get angry and attack me, hoping that I'll go away. That's why you ignored me. Part of you wants me to go away...

...Yet part of you desire to know just what is going on in my head...

...What if he's serious?

...What if there is a God?

No, of course not. That would destroy everything...

And we can't destroy everything. :eek:

OK, I can no longer take you seriously at all. And let’s make this clear: I obviously really don’t like you. Why am I so harsh? Because I think you’re a charlatan. It’s not because I ‘misunderstand’ you or fear you’re right, it’s because of how you act like some deep guru and come out with utter crap (such as your non-falsifiable psychological statement in this thread).

Look, I'm not here to argue.

I am here to talk and have fun.

You can argue ALL you want.

The only table here is not going to be turned, as it is the one we sit at and have bread. Why turn them? Just switch seats.

The only supernatural is the natural which gives you great energy.

It CAN be evaluated, just not by science. You need to let go of others' opinions, man/

You post a message calling atheists egoists in denial, fail to prove it and then say you’re here just to ‘have fun’ and I’m the one ‘arguing’, when all I want is for you to evaluate your statement. You see why I think you’re a charlatan now?

I'm not acting like anything besides who I am.

I just let go.

Who cares?

Not me.

How can I be a charlatan?

All I do, as Socrates once similarly said, is go about convincing people old and young alike to take care not for their material possessions but most importantly to take care of their soul.

And for this, I am berated?

You think I gain anything from these posts?

I gain nothing unless you gain something.


You post a message calling atheists egoists in denial, fail to prove it and then say you’re here just to ‘have fun’ and I’m the one ‘arguing’, when all I want is for you to evaluate your argument. You see why I think you’re a charlatan now?

Do you see my posts in BLTC?

I post the same way here as I do there.

Well this has worked out swell. You’ve diverted the topic from your non-falsifiable psychological statement and I fell for it.

I post the same way here as I do there.

I feel sorry for the poor bastards in BLTC then. But no, I don't post in there. I don't really have much of an interest in drugs.

Work on your balance, then.


I feel sorry for the poor bastards in BLTC then. But no, I don't post in there. I don't really have much of an interest in drugs.

This is quite understandable. After all, that, what, 120 mgs of codeine sure did kick your ass, huh?

OMG... if someone can find this poll and show it is scientifically credible, I will then lose all hope for humanity. If we count committed acts of violence as a ratio between indoctrinated religious people vs non-theists, the ratio has got to be at least a few million to one. Thats at the very least. It could be billions to one. I seriously have nothing against Muslims or anyone of indoctrinated faith, but just being logically realistic about the matter, Atheists should be placed pretty high up there in terms of trustworthiness.

http://www.truthdig.com/interview/item/20060403_sam_harris_interview/

2nd paragraph.

Loads on the goog, including my very post!

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=atheists+trusted+less+than+muslims&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

This is quite understandable. After all, that, what, 120 mgs of codeine sure did kick your ass, huh?

:D :D

I'll add you to my msn list when I get back from work today rizzo. But my email doesn't have Obbe in it, just so you know.

And good points, all around. IMO.

I've always enjoyed your posts in BLTC, even when others call you a retard. Good job being who you are.