Really, gys tell me what the fuck you have against us. :mad:

also
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/images/churchsign.jpg

You mean, besides being attention whores?

You mean, besides being attention whores?

I am not an attention whore. I seriously want to see what reasons mainly Christians have and make our lives hard. :mad:

Unfortunately there is no one reason, all of them are foolish though.

I am not an attention whore. I seriously want to see what reasons mainly Christians have and make our lives hard. :mad:

Okay, serious answer. Christianity is a religion of fear and denial, and they hate atheists because they fear you might be right.

I don't have anything against them as a group. Except I think its just as silly to have a lack of belief in God, as it is for Christians to believe in their (stereotypical) interpretation of God. But Its not like I hate anyone for that, or try to force change upon anyone.

I'm sure theres lots of people who say they are atheist, but are only referring to the Christian god, too.

I don't have anything against them as a group. Except I think its just as silly to have a lack of belief in God, as it is for Christians to believe in their (stereotypical) interpretation of God. But Its not like I hate anyone for that, or try to force change upon anyone.

I'm sure theres lots of people who say they are atheist, but are only referring to the Christian god, too.

Why are you a stereotype of Obbe? (i.e.: you are incorrectly using the word "stereotype" for a reflexive property)

The problem with atheists arises either because religious people are idiots, or the atheist is an idiot. In either case, tension arises because either or both cannot discern the difference between facts and beliefs.

One of my coworkers is an Atheist and one of them is a nondenominational Christian. Simply put, the Christian does not trust the Atheist because, this is verbatim,

Where does he think everything comes from? How can anyone not believe in a God? Something had to create all of this. I just don't understand why he thinks he is right about there being no God. How can anyone feel they are absolutely right about anything?

When I ask "How do you know you are absolutely right?" She says (verbatim again)

Because I know all of this stuff around us is impossible without a God. I know deep in my heart that there is one.

The contrary can be said vice versa, but Christians aren't generally known for taking a step outside of the "box" and looking at it from a different perspective. I, myself, do believe in God. I have nothing against Atheists because I am not a typical Theist. I follow no doctrine and have my own off the wall beliefs.

Why are you a stereotype of Obbe? (i.e.: you are incorrectly using the word "stereotype" for a reflexive property)

Huuuuuuh? ....uhhhhh, yeah....thats uh, what I meant to do you see, yeah...

Actually, I have no idea what I said wrong, or why its wrong. Or what it seems like I'm saying.

I guess I should reword that some other way....I think its just as silly for someone to have a lack of belief in God as it is for a stereotypical Christian to believe in their common interpretation of God.

That all grammatically correct enough for the high standards of totse?

They are usually the quickest to become offensive.

Huuuuuuh? ....uhhhhh, yeah....thats uh, what I meant to do you see, yeah...

Actually, I have no idea what I said wrong, or why its wrong. Or what it seems like I'm saying.

I guess I should reword that some other way....I think its just as silly for someone to have a lack of belief in God as it is for a stereotypical Christian to believe in their common interpretation of God.

That all grammatically correct enough for the high standards of totse?

Its not grammatically incorrect as much as it is logically ambiguous.

Regardless, why is it a problem for people to interpret their divine being the same way? 1+1 = 2 for both me, you, and everyone else in this thread. Is that a problem too?

Its not grammatically incorrect as much as it is logically ambiguous.

Dammit.

Regardless, why is it a problem for people to interpret their divine being the same way?

I didn't say it was. I said it was silly. And, it makes them really easy to be controlled.

1+1 = 2 for both me, you, and everyone else in this thread. Is that a problem too?

Ooo, ouch...that nearly took out my upper left pride. :(

Why are you a stereotype of Obbe? (i.e.: you are incorrectly using the word "stereotype" for a reflexive property)


Well, incorrectly or not, I understood exactly what he was saying.

Atheism is the END of religion. Thats why there scared. The leaders of the church's see it as a the end to people throwing money in there pockets and giving them a career. Not only do atheist not attend church (give those lazy fucks money) atheist dont tell other people to go to church. So of course there going to demonise it, thats what they do.

Also atheist tend to make religious people think, which is not something your supposed to do as a religious person. There are millions and millions of people who havent even thought about the questions an atheist will ask. "why are you a christian and not a muslim" "do you believe in the pink unicorns" etc. etc. And those are the types of questions that turns people into atheists.

Atheism is the END of religion. Thats why there scared. The leaders of the church's see it as a the end to people throwing money in there pockets and giving them a career. Not only do atheist not attend church (give those lazy fucks money) atheist dont tell other people to go to church. So of course there going to demonise it, thats what they do.

Also atheist tend to make religious people think, which is not something your supposed to do as a religious person. There are millions and millions of people who havent even thought about the questions an atheist will ask. "why are you a christian and not a muslim" "do you believe in the pink unicorns" etc. etc. And those are the types of questions that turns people into atheists.

Dont generalize or anything.

And those are the types of questions that turns people into atheists.

The questions open religious peoples minds to other possibilities...but its the people that stop thinking right there that become atheists, not the questions themselves.

I think theres much more to learn after that first step.

Dont generalize or anything.

Oh man, you're finally back. Please post something longer so I can rip it apart again, I've missed that, so much.

Won't it be boring when atheists have taken over the world and there wont' be any fundies for us to punt around?

Oh man, you're finally back. Please post something longer so I can rip it apart again, I've missed that, so much.

Won't it be boring when atheists have taken over the world and there wont' be any fundies for us to punt around?

You cant disagree with my post so you want me to post something longer so you can "rip it apart"? Maybe you should post something that interests me.

The questions open religious peoples minds to other possibilities...but its the people that stop thinking right there that become atheists, not the questions themselves.

I think theres much more to learn after that first step.

Uhhh, after thinking about those tough questions you dont just stop thinking. Your implieing that when people question there faith they will ALWAYS go back to it.

Im not saying everybody will stop believing in things that have no evidence or reason too. But alot of people do when they start to actually think about it. People are intelligent, when they try, well most people.

The reason theists confront atheism with vehemous opposition is simply a clash of worldviews. They see opposition and they "know" they're right so they have a feeling that it is their duty to correct all wrongs. Think a political debate. A conservative would enter a vehemous quarrel against a liberal not because there's something at stake (really it makes no difference on a large scale) but because they "know" they are right inside and they see someone wrong

I do not have anything against atheists in general. Those I have encountered in personal experience, however, were arrogant and held an extremely naive and reductive definition or understanding of religion and faith. Reading some of the posts of espoused atheists in this thread only solidifies that prejudice for me.

But I also know atheists who are wonderful people and really don't give a shit what others think about them or what others choose to believe. But from some, I get a sense that they feel threatened by religious institutions or spirituality in general. That disturbs me as a believer, because I certainly don't hold any grudges.

You can refuse to accept the laws of gravity but that does not change the fact that they are there. Saying you are an Atheists is just a big fat statement admitting how stupid and ignorant you actually are.

You can refuse to accept the laws of gravity but that does not change the fact that they are there. Saying you are an Atheists is just a big fat statement admitting how stupid and ignorant you actually are.

This is why I have a dislike for most christians, and the fact that a lot of them are so fucking intolerant of other religions.

I went to a christian highschool, and we had "religion" as a subject there, sad to say, me being a die-hard atheïst at the time knew more about religion including their own than all the hardline christians in my class. But the worst, was the complete ignorance towards other religions. Laughing at buddhists and muslims, because "that's just retarded", but not having the perspective to look at their own religion through the eyes of one.

Altho I must say that the teacher was a pretty progressive christian who had studied philosophy and such. So he was nice to talk to.

Uhhh, after thinking about those tough questions you dont just stop thinking. Your implieing that when people question there faith they will ALWAYS go back to it.

Im not saying everybody will stop believing in things that have no evidence or reason too. But alot of people do when they start to actually think about it. People are intelligent, when they try, well most people.

Kay, I'm really having a hard time understanding what you meant. And I must be having a bad day or something, because I don't know if you understand what I'm trying to say either.

Your implieing that when people question there faith they will ALWAYS go back to it. Yeah, I have no idea what you're referring to.

I think that if you were to keep asking yourself questions, you'll find the answers you need. Its great that these questions help people get out of organized religions, and great that they help people smarten the fuck up.

But then people just stop their trains of thought. They seem to give up, and declare themselves atheists. But thats not answering any questions, thats leaving you in the lurch, either content in knowing almost nothing about reality, or constantly bringing up the same questions and content in never answering them.

But the answers are really right in front of us. If these people kept searching, they would eventually become theists.

That is very true. I also don't like Christans because there religion is so vain and they choose to ignore so much like you said about them ignoring other religions. I choose to not be a Christan because I beleive in so many different things and I also beleive in multiple Deitys and a tone of other stuff. They are ignore SO much there religion is SO vein. OH and also let me add Christans have the least proof that there religion exists than any other religion and yet they are the first ones to criticize other religions. I mean Aleister Crowley could Visually back up that the Occult and Magick that he practised was real by spinning a pen on a table with his mind and the Church tried to cover that up when he died the ignorant fucks.

either content in knowing almost nothing about reality

As opposed to what, "knowing"? Aka making a wild fucking guess

People speak like there's shame in accepting one just doesn't fucking know how it all started. There should be shame is believing in a magic man or whatever and thinking you can't possibly be wrong. That's incredibly arrogant. Makes me wonder if sirholkms is really that painfully stupid or just a troll that conveniently displayed why religion tends to go bad

Kay, I'm really having a hard time understanding what you meant. And I must be having a bad day or something, because I don't know if you understand what I'm trying to say either.

Your implieing that when people question there faith they will ALWAYS go back to it. Yeah, I have no idea what you're referring to.

I think that if you were to keep asking yourself questions, you'll find the answers you need. Its great that these questions help people get out of organized religions, and great that they help people smarten the fuck up.

But then people just stop their trains of thought. They seem to give up, and declare themselves atheists. But thats not answering any questions, thats leaving you in the lurch, either content in knowing almost nothing about reality, or constantly bringing up the same questions and content in never answering them.

But the answers are really right in front of us. If these people kept searching, they would eventually become theists.

Thats what I was referring too. And "being an atheist is giving up your search for answers". Ummm no. Being a theist is the ultimate cop out you can achieve.

"I dont know therefor god did it" Ya, good fucking answer.

I think that if you were to keep asking yourself questions, you'll find the answers you need. Its great that these questions help people get out of organized religions, and great that they help people smarten the fuck up.

When people are willing to ask questions, this usually works fine, I agree.



But then people just stop their trains of thought. They seem to give up, and declare themselves atheists. But thats not answering any questions, thats leaving you in the lurch, either content in knowing almost nothing about reality, or constantly bringing up the same questions and content in never answering them.

Eh? Who says Atheists have stopped with their lines of questioning? To make a generalisation about Atheists here, they tend to be sceptics by nature and this means questioning everything. The reason atheists are not theists is because God has not been an adequate answer to any of our lines of enquiry.
Yes, I’ll admit that sometimes there are questions that do not yet have answers - but filling them with God can potentially halt all future probing into the matter.

But the answers are really right in front of us. If these people kept searching, they would eventually become theists.

That’s a very blasé statement you’re making there…


In my everyday life, I come across very few theists who actually have problems with atheists. It might be due to living somewhere where people seem very apathetic to religion as a whole, but I rarely come across people who openly despise us.

But then people just stop their trains of thought. They seem to give up, and declare themselves atheists. But thats not answering any questions, thats leaving you in the lurch, either content in knowing almost nothing about reality, or constantly bringing up the same questions and content in never answering them.

But the answers are really right in front of us. If these people kept searching, they would eventually become theists.

You seem to misunderstand what atheism is. In order to be an atheist you don't just say "fuck it all I am atheist, take that you fat skyman". You have to come to a realization that there is no god. If you are like me, no one told you that there is no santa, they kept convincing you otherwise but one day you came to a realization that there is no santa. Did you stop your train of thought about santa? The answers are really in front of you, if you keep searching you will become a Santaist (or Satanist I forget)

What the hell is with all the stereotyping both theists and atheists are doing in this thread?

What the hell is with all the stereotyping both theists and atheists are doing in this thread?

What the hell is with anything?

This is my problem with atheists.

http://revart.blogs.com/minister_of_rants/images/atheist_a_meal_fit_for_2.jpg

Their food sucks, it has no love.

This is my problem with atheists.

http://revart.blogs.com/minister_of_rants/images/atheist_a_meal_fit_for_2.jpg

Their food sucks, it has no love.

And now you're stereotyping all atheists as Logical Positivists.

And now you're stereotyping all atheists as Logical Positivists.

Stop being so negative. You're like a black hole where the fun goes to die.

As opposed to what, "knowing"? Aka making a wild fucking guess

You can't know anything. But it feels good to think you do, and in my opinion feeling good is much better then pondering "why?" until I die. Especially if you have come about these answers, true or not, on your own.

People speak like there's shame in accepting one just doesn't fucking know how it all started. There should be shame is believing in a magic man or whatever...

Only if you believe you can't possibly be wrong...because thats where trouble begins. Or if they're just believing what someone told them. But if you came about the conclusion on your own, whats wrong with believing in a magic man? Or a much more sensible concept?

Theres no shame in accepting you can't know a thing. But why stop right there? It feels much better to try and figure it out, find something that works for you, and still accept that you are probably wrong.

...and thinking you can't possibly be wrong.

Thats true.

Thats what I was referring too. And "being an atheist is giving up your search for answers". Ummm no. Being a theist is the ultimate cop out you can achieve.

I'm not saying people will go back to an original faith, although I don't doubt it happens. But yes, if they wanted to have answers they would have to have faith. As an agnostic theist, I don't think its possible to prove there is god.

Yes, I think being an atheist is like giving up your search for answers because all the answers involve having faith.

Which theists are you talking about? The ones who listen to a preacher, or the ones who like to think?

"I dont know therefor god did it" Ya, good fucking answer.

I don't put words in your mouth. I never claimed God did anything. If you actually knew my beliefs instead of assuming them, you would know that I think God doesn't really do anything, except exist. You don't even know what I think God is.

Eh? Who says Atheists have stopped with their lines of questioning? To make a generalisation about Atheists here, they tend to be sceptics by nature and this means questioning everything. The reason atheists are not theists is because God has not been an adequate answer to any of our lines of enquiry.

I said they could either accept they know nothing, or continue questioning for ever. Even when questions are answered, it usually makes more questions. Maybe the God they have tried using as an answer wasn't adequate because it was somebody else's idea? Perhaps thats where the problem starts? But then finding something that works to answer all your questions will involve faith, in my opinion.

Yes, I’ll admit that sometimes there are questions that do not yet have answers - but filling them with God can potentially halt all future probing into the matter.

Theres no need for the halt of questioning when you know you're probably wrong. In fact, thats great, because it helps you find something closer to the truth, if it exists.

You seem to misunderstand what atheism is. In order to be an atheist you don't just say "fuck it all I am atheist, take that you fat skyman". You have to come to a realization that there is no god.

No, I understand what atheism means. You just seem to misunderstand what God really is. Or could be.

And many people who do not understand what atheism means really do just say "fuck it all I am atheist, take that you fat skyman".

If you are like me, no one told you that there is no santa, they kept convincing you otherwise but one day you came to a realization that there is no santa. Did you stop your train of thought about santa? The answers are really in front of you, if you keep searching you will become a Santaist (or Satanist I forget)

Santa and other fairy tale creatures are terrible metaphors for God, because it assuming certain traits about them. Such as thinking, or physical activity.


Stop being so negative. You're like a black hole where the fun goes to die.

ha ha ha ha ha ha

Ahhh....my sides...my lungs. Man, thats too much...

No, I understand what atheism means.

I'm questionable of this statement. Remember when I had to educate you because you brought so many invalid connotations to the word?

For a second there I thought I'd ventured into the PLRC forum.

Just bitch, bitch, bitch ... but never saying a goddamned thing.

There are Atheists and Christians that are both just as negative. In my opinion believing in Christianity isn't dangerous and neither is not believing in Christianity. Neither is a threat to anything (some would disagree) both are positive to those involved. There are smug ass jack offs on both sides making ignorant smartass comments that they feel have 'destroyed' their opponents views when both sides are just more locked into their views then before. Then there are reasonable people. There are alot of Atheists and Christians that you will never find them insulting each other or ridiculing anothers beliefs or trying to convince them they are wrong. Just a nice informative polite conversation.

Nice, informative and polite conversations are useful. Far and few between, but useful nonetheless.

I recollect having as many informative and polite discussions with Christians on here as I've had verbal sparring. I think a lot of it rides on the topic at hand, the individuals in question, and the general mood of the atmosphere between them. That general mood and conversational atmosphere can go from friendly to vicious in minutes flat, usually as a result of one (or both) of the people engaged in discussion being passionate about their beliefs to the point of inadvertently tripping into overzealous mode.

I've been guilty of it myself. I just refuse to sit on fences or be understated about my position. Why half-ass it? I'd rather be disliked than misunderstood, and can respect any other poster (theist or atheist) who practices the same manner of getting their opinions out there.

We'd never stand to learn anything from each other if we didn't first engage in some kind of disagreement. Otherwise, this forum would be some kind of sickly-sweet backslapping, hand-pumping fest.

Dissidence is healthy, in my opinion.

Yeah I agree that it is appropriate to a level i'm guilty of it too though I try not to. More what i'm talking about it's not even like an argument really because both sides have already come to the conclusion the other is wrong and foolish before they even started arguing. It just becomes like a shouting match with people on each side coming up with more and more reasons why their opponent or anyone who agrees is an idiot. They are not there to even get points across in the begining they just want to argue and sound smart. I think you know what I mean it's different then what you are talking about.

I'm questionable of this statement. Remember when I had to educate you because you brought so many invalid connotations to the word?

And you did such a great job! Yeah! :D Thumbs up there little buddy!

Yeah I agree that it is appropriate to a level i'm guilty of it too though I try not to. More what i'm talking about it's not even like an argument really because both sides have already come to the conclusion the other is wrong and foolish before they even started arguing. It just becomes like a shouting match with people on each side coming up with more and more reasons why their opponent or anyone who agrees is an idiot. They are not there to even get points across in the begining they just want to argue and sound smart. I think you know what I mean it's different then what you are talking about.

I completely understand what you mean. It's like arguing, just for the sake of arguing. The squabbling goes nowhere.

We're all a bit guilty of it. Although I do recall you and I having some nice, productive exchanges without having to agree with each other on everything.
:)

My problem with atheists is the word itself. Going on tangent of a point often used by atheists when accused of their non-faith being religious: Is there a label for folks who don't collect stamps? (non-enthusiast?) Folks who don't play sports? (non-athletes?) Is this some medical condition that needs to be categorized? ;)

My problem with atheists is the word itself. Going on tangent of a point often used by atheists when accused of their non-faith being religious: Is there a label for folks who don't collect stamps? (non-enthusiast?) Folks who don't play sports? (non-athletes?) Is this some medical condition that needs to be categorized? ;)

Oh, the use of the word "atheist" is just a handy tool to help people categorize people.

Why do people mistrust atheists?
It probably has something to do with the fact that humanity and spirtual beliefs have (for better or worse, which is another arguement) co-existed for thousands of years.

While I'm not trying to make facts out of shit I don't know and probably no one knows, there are probably more atheists around today than ever before.

There is probably some long ingrained mistrust of atheism even more than other religions because all the Allah's and Zeus's and whatnot were at least on the same playing field, that is, some kind of enity which existed beyond human comprehension.

Atheism is totally deviod and lifeless (so to speak) of any higher beings, which is probably more intimadating.

Does it make me an atheist if I was never religious in the first place and just don't give a shit? I don't bitch about how religion's stupid, it's just not a part of my life, and that includes the faith element. I don't believe that god exists, I don't believe that he does not exist, and I don't believe that he might exist. I just don't care.

My problem with atheists is the word itself. Going on tangent of a point often used by atheists when accused of their non-faith being religious: Is there a label for folks who don't collect stamps? (non-enthusiast?) Folks who don't play sports? (non-athletes?) Is this some medical condition that needs to be categorized? ;)

Because non stamp enthusiasts are so few and far between that they don't have a categorization other than "somebody who doesn't collect stamps". Atheism represents a wide array of people who consider themselves atheists, not just "somebody who doesn't believe in God". Also, atheism doesn't have a central belief (empiricism perhaps), so it can't be classified as a religion, and therefore we must give it the name antithesis of theism, or atheism. Although I do enjoy uncyclopedia's defenition of atheism: the worship of the god destroyer, Athe.

The title of "Atheist" is necessary.

Otherwise, the religious right would just have to refer to us as a collective whole as: "Those Evil Bastards".

I guess I should reword that some other way....I think its just as silly for someone to have a lack of belief in God as it is for a stereotypical Christian to believe in their common interpretation of God.


QFT...

^Looks like some people can understand it.

Religion provides unneccessary conflicts between two or more groups of people. That is why I the only religion I have is science and logical thinking.

Theres no shame in accepting you can't know a thing. But why stop right there? It feels much better to try and figure it out, find something that works for you, and still accept that you are probably wrong.


I dont understand how somone can defend his beleifs to such an extent, then turn around and say they've accepted that they're probably wrong.. You say "feeling good is much better than pondering, why?" Then claim athiests stop there train of though once they accept that god doesn't exist. It sounds to me like you've completly accepted that you're living a lie.. Im not saying that's "wrong" I just completly disagree with everything you say..

I dont understand how somone can defend his beleifs to such an extent, then turn around and say they've accepted that they're probably wrong.. You say "feeling good is much better than pondering, why?" Then claim athiests stop there train of though once they accept that god doesn't exist. It sounds to me like you've completly accepted that you're living a lie.. Im not saying that's "wrong" I just completly disagree with everything you say..

Have you ever read Cats Cradle man?

Everythings a lie.

Tiger got to hunt,
Bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder, "Why, why, why?"

Tiger got to sleep,
Bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.

edit-what exactly have I said that you disagree with?

I don't have much of a problem with them. However, the next one that tries to start a fist-fight with me because I'm Christian is going to get fragged.

I don't have much of a problem with them. However, the next one that tries to start a fist-fight with me because I'm Christian is going to get fragged.

You mean they just came out swinging at you upon hearing that you were a person of faith ... no other reason?

Please, elaborate. I'd like to hear the circumstances behind all this.

Also: I'd frag 'em back! :mad:
Senseless violence is senseless, but one has to defend themselves against savages who throw the first punch.

Today I was riding the bus back home from the U. of U. with a few friends when religion came up. One of them joked about Joseph Smith being fake (note: this is in Utah). We were in the back of the bus, and a woman (stereotypical Mormon) in the front walked up to us and said (and I quote): "Joseph Smith was real, you'll realize that someday." My friend began giving excuses along the lines of yeah, sorry, I was joking, I know, but she continued with "Just like Abraham and Moses were real prophets" (of course not mentioning Jesus [secondary in Mormonism], The Buddha, Zoroaster, or Mohammed. She then sat a seat away from us while we whispered quietly and laughed loudly (for full effect of course). That is my problem with religious people, that they'll get in your face. If she had said "Would you like to know what Joseph Smith is really about?", I would have likely said yes, and had a (hopefully)rational debate with her, but when somebody of ANY religion pushes their beliefs onto me, I feel offended intellectually, I attempt not to push my beliefs onto others because I know of the miracle of faith and the fervor that it can cause for others, I just prefer facts to happiness. I know many radically religious people in this radically religious of states, and most of them are content with atheists, largely due to the fact that many don't know what it is. I have literally had conversations with high school students who do not know what atheism is, which of course doesn't imply that Christians are retarded, merely that they refuse to step out of the box. If I was an ignorant atheist in the sense that most Christians are ignorant, I wouldn't bother posting on &T where I could be prone to Christian arguments, neither would I visit creationist websites for the information, and I wouldn't read Behe either. Regardless of your beliefs (or lack thereof), we all need to learn about the world around us and the subjective truth that we are most inclined to believe.

One of my coworkers is an Atheist and one of them is a nondenominational Christian. Simply put, the Christian does not trust the Atheist because, this is verbatim,



When I ask "How do you know you are absolutely right?" She says (verbatim again)



The contrary can be said vice versa, but Christians aren't generally known for taking a step outside of the "box" and looking at it from a different perspective. I, myself, do believe in God. I have nothing against Atheists because I am not a typical Theist. I follow no doctrine and have my own off the wall beliefs.

That's the way I am, in terms of how I follow God.

Correct answer: Hatred is irrational.

My answer: Atheists are people, too.

Correct answer: Hatred is irrational.

My answer: Atheists are people, too.

(saying this is your first account) your compassion will take you far, dear nooblet.

just in my experiences with a few of my friends, the problem with atheists is many (fuck me, i'm generalizing) other people's sense that they are correct. that their beliefs are correct, and all else is nonsense.

take for example one day during lunch. somehow, the topic of religion was brought up by two of my christian friends and my die-hard atheist friend. the atheist friend said, quite bluntly, that there was no god. the two christians jumped on his ass immediately for this. they asked how he could not believe there was a god. he (the atheist) asked them to prove god's existance*. the two christians simply referred to everything around us, citing that it could not exist without a divine being.

granted, there are far worse cases than this. look at the creation museum.

*from what i can tell, he is one of the few atheists i know that have a "if you can't show me, it's not real" mindsets about god. i might not have worded that to get the full oomph of what i'm trying to get at.

*from what i can tell, he is one of the few atheists i know that have a "if you can't show me, it's not real" mindsets about god. i might not have worded that to get the full oomph of what i'm trying to get at.

That's odd because every single atheist I know has that mindset.

You can't know anything. But it feels good to think you do, and in my opinion feeling good is much better then pondering "why?" until I die. Especially if you have come about these answers, true or not, on your own.

^ LOL so what your sayin in one way or another is that youd rather decieve yourself then ever actually consider different possibilities,,wow if thats the case why dont u just abandon all hope of ever using logic,and just live a life steered by the hand of'of better to not question cause the truth might actually lead me to having to think that there isnt a crutch to fall back on and a afterlife''<<well thats all and nice but why not questiont hings ehn you are a human ud rather remain in subservience to something which cant technically be proven by logic,,o except for by faith and the whole well the earths here and so are we so it all must be true!!<lAwlz

Only if you believe you can't possibly be wrong...because thats where trouble begins. Or if they're just believing what someone told them. But if you came about the conclusion on your own, whats wrong with believing in a magic man? Or a much more sensible concept?

Theres no shame in accepting you can't know a thing. But why stop right there? It feels much better to try and figure it out, find something that works for you, and still accept that you are probably wrong.

still accept that you are probabley wrong eh?how so??its the search for answers not the believe in what im told method,,,and well answers provide a whole lot more substance then faith does,,,so wouldnt it be the other way around because theres no actual guarnteed existantial truth???

Thats true.



I'm not saying people will go back to an original faith, although I don't doubt it happens. But yes, if they wanted to have answers they would have to have faith. As an agnostic theist, I don't think its possible to prove there is god.

Yes, I think being an atheist is like giving up your search for answers because all the answers involve having faith.

Which theists are you talking about? The ones who listen to a preacher, or the ones who like to think?



I don't put words in your mouth. I never claimed God did anything. If you actually knew my beliefs instead of assuming them, you would know that I think God doesn't really do anything, except exist. You don't even know what I think God is.

well if you claim we all stop thinking after we say o there must not be a god hah!take that,,then your kind of sayin that were ultimately simple minded and that we just dont care,,,when in fact if we were athiest why wouldnt we care?if we came to the conclusion of i dont believe ina diety theni think the person will more than likely have some sort of reason behind thier choice

I said they could either accept they know nothing, or continue questioning for ever. Even when questions are answered, it usually makes more questions. Maybe the God they have tried using as an answer wasn't adequate because it was somebody else's idea? Perhaps thats where the problem starts? But then finding something that works to answer all your questions will involve faith, in my opinion.



Theres no need for the halt of questioning when you know you're probably wrong. In fact, thats great, because it helps you find something closer to the truth, if it exists.

u jsut contradicted yourself here pal...when in fact u said before that wed prob come to a dead end more or less and not find out the truth??

No, I understand what atheism means. You just seem to misunderstand what God really is. Or could be.

And many people who do not understand what atheism means really do just say "fuck it all I am atheist, take that you fat skyman".



Santa and other fairy tale creatures are terrible metaphors for God, because it assuming certain traits about them. Such as thinking, or physical activity.



ha ha ha ha ha ha

Ahhh....my sides...my lungs. Man, thats too much...



and btw to the original op of this thread,wer enot all that way,we only tend to be that way when assaulted with things like ''o you dont believe in god,,wtf!are u stupid!?!?,that means your goin to hell''well if only die hard evangelists could realize that we could give a flying fuck about hell,if we dont believe in a god then we dont believe in the whole she bang,which in turns mean we dont care so,,,i think the best way to resolve religious disputes such as these is just to remain tolerant and except that the other person doesnt have the same beliefs as you on creation,,,and really why is that such a bad thing,,so what if it doesnt coallign with your doctrine,,people are unique and by bieng such they have different mindsets on different things,,and if people would just learn to except things as trivial as this and appreciate others for who they are and what they bring to the table,wed all be alot better off then fueding over trivial topics that dont affect the way we behave as a bieng unless in extreme conditions of course


but what the bottom line comes down to is,that you should just live your life as you see fit and if others dont agree or live differently then so what,it shouldnt affect you unless your uncapable of excepting the fact that not everyone else is a carbon copy of you,

That's odd because every single atheist I know has that mindset.

he's so much more... ignorant about it, if you will. he's the person that is screaming "fuck the invisible man in the sky" because after looking for a diety for all of five minutes, he gave up.

all others i know, yes, may to some extent be like that, but they each had their own personal search to find a god. this took an abundance time, and they came up empty handed.

i don't know if i'm making sense here.

This is how you properly quote and reply to someone:


^ LOL so what your sayin in one way or another is that youd rather decieve yourself then ever actually consider different possibilities

Uh...no.

I think you should consider all the possibilities. But You'll never know the truth. I'm saying that following the beliefs of someone else is silly....you're not thinking for yourself then. And I think being atheist is just as silly.

why dont u just abandon all hope of ever using logic,and just live a life steered by the hand of'of better to not question cause the truth might actually lead me to having to think that there isnt a crutch to fall back on and a afterlife''

You must be highly intoxicated or just lost al ot of blood, because thats nearly impossible to understand. But i think you've missed my point, that you should question things.

<<well thats all and nice but why not questiont hings ehn you are a human ud rather remain in subservience to something which cant technically be proven by logic,,o except for by faith and the whole well the earths here and so are we so it all must be true!!<lAwlz

I don't consider myself subservient to anything. And in my opinion, any final answer must be based on faith.

still accept that you are probabley wrong eh?how so??its the search for answers not the believe in what im told method,,,and well answers provide a whole lot more substance then faith does,,,so wouldnt it be the other way around because theres no actual guarnteed existantial truth???

Like I said, you can't know anything. But in the search for answers to the greater questions, you'll find certain 'truths' that are sometimes best explained through lies.

well if you claim we all stop thinking after we say o there must not be a god hah!take that,,then your kind of sayin that were ultimately simple minded and that we just dont care

I claimed:

they could either accept they know nothing, or continue questioning for ever. Even when questions are answered, it usually makes more questions.

I think in choosing to be atheist you will never find truth because either you wont want to have faith in a possible explanation, or you are already content in not finding out.

,,,when in fact if we were athiest why wouldnt we care? if we came to the conclusion of i dont believe ina diety theni think the person will more than likely have some sort of reason behind thier choice

The reason is no evidence. And there never will be, either.

u jsut contradicted yourself here pal...when in fact u said before that wed prob come to a dead end more or less and not find out the truth??

You don't understand what I said, or probably what it was in response to. You don't see how you can have faith and question reality at the same time. You shouldn't 'fill' questions by saying 'God did it'. Seek out the truth.

Then you'll know what I'm talking about.

but what the bottom line comes down to is,that you should just live your life as you see fit and if others dont agree or live differently then so what

Yes.

This is how you properly quote and reply to someone:




Uh...no.

I think you should consider all the possibilities. But You'll never know the truth. I'm saying that following the beliefs of someone else is silly....you're not thinking for yourself then. And I think being atheist is just as silly.


You must be highly intoxicated or just lost al ot of blood, because thats nearly impossible to understand. But i think you've missed my point, that you should question things.


I don't consider myself subservient to anything. And in my opinion, any final answer must be based on faith.



Like I said, you can't know anything. But in the search for answers to the greater questions, you'll find certain 'truths' that are sometimes best explained through lies.


I claimed:



I think in choosing to be atheist you will never find truth because either you wont want to have faith in a possible explanation, or you are already content in not finding out.


The reason is no evidence. And there never will be, either.


You don't understand what I said, or probably what it was in response to. You don't see how you can have faith and question reality at the same time. You shouldn't 'fill' questions by saying 'God did it'. Seek out the truth.




Then you'll know what I'm talking about.




Yes.





so then what do you think???i mean if you think that following someone elses belief is silly then you are also implying that you think religion is silly too,cause well lemme tell you,some one had to have written it down,and therefore it is someones belief wether inspired by the commands of some ''dietys''voice or not,,and then you also say bieng an athiest is silly???...ooo really?So your saying that wanting to find out answers and not just live a brainwashed dull pigmentless life is silly???also for your info alot of us think athiesim is a much more peacefull solution then religion i mean can you count all the deathe's that have occured upon this earth just because of religion,,now that is silly my friend,


and btw where exactly does this leave you in the boat then?if for one you think faith is silly and then you think athiesim is silly as well,,,well i can only assume your an agnostic which well lets all be honest is just a athiest in disguise or one that is labeling himself as an agnostic out of hypothetical paranoia ,there kinda the athiests in denial types id call em





no just a piece of crap keyboard and no desk so im forced to type with it on my knees,and sometimes i dont pay attention to my grammatical errors and ,later on notice em ,and am like''frick!that really degrades my appearance i portray''




another contradiction eh?lol but you just said following the ideas of other is just plain ol silly,,,well hate to tell ya but faith has to be based upon religion if were speaking in creation terms here,so therefore your saying that you have some sorta faith by the statement you just gave us,,and in turn your saying that your faith is bestowed upon some sorta of religion which in the dominoe effect im explaining is based upon someones interpetation of what they wrote down,,,,sigh*well if you somehow left outsomethin again which''i didnt understand'' feel free to tell me,but dont be so vague this time,this isnt a literary sharades game we got goin on here,so lets not resort to that plz?



^^^^lol you just lost me again!!its amazing how you will say somethin what makesa bit of sense to me,but then it just collapses ,*very tricky* it sounds almost like your saying that religion is a lie[which im not arguing,mind you]and through that misty lie you can grasp truths,,,well i hate to tell you,but if you just believe in certain parts of a religion and deny the rest of it,youve succeeded in making your own lil hokey religion,congratulations? you should sens us video clips of you speakin in tongues and rollin around on the floor holdin snakes



well you see the thing is,,we want to find truth through actual ways that can be proven,this is also referred to as evidence,look it up


a reason is a basis of cause,,as in me saying such ,i never exactly said there was a specific reason for our origin to begin with ,if i was to say such that would mean that i would have to believe in some higher life form creating us for a reason???so as to where you came up with that reply to me,i havent the slightest clue and well but i could say that the reason we are here is cause of evolution and the big bang theory so actually in a way i could say that,but it wasnt a reason that was planned by some figure is the difference




never did??you keep going back and forth by the way,one moment you sound all die hard agnostic the next you sound like a lovin lil pie faced evangelist





well you sure did help me understand what you were talkin about with all the ambiguity and what not -_-

and ty for agrreing with what i last said,it really is the truth,im glad you can at least see that

You have again failed to place your responses correctly after the parts of my response you are responding to. I will try my best, and assume that every block of text corresponds to one of my responses, in the same order I gave them.

so then what do you think???i mean if you think that following someone elses belief is silly then you are also implying that you think religion is silly too,cause well lemme tell you,some one had to have written it down,and therefore it is someones belief wether inspired by the commands of some ''dietys''voice or not,,and then you also say bieng an athiest is silly???...ooo really?So your saying that wanting to find out answers and not just live a brainwashed dull pigmentless life is silly???also for your info alot of us think athiesim is a much more peacefull solution then religion i mean can you count all the deathe's that have occured upon this earth just because of religion,,now that is silly my friend,

Religion is silly. I am not religious.

Atheism doesn't answer any questions, it only makes more.

Check out the 'atheists are morally superior to believers' thread to see why your opinion is not correct.

(I had more written for this^^ one, but totse ate it. So you get the simplified shortened version now.)

and btw where exactly does this leave you in the boat then?if for one you think faith is silly and then you think athiesim is silly as well,,,well i can only assume your an agnostic which well lets all be honest is just a athiest in disguise or one that is labeling himself as an agnostic out of hypothetical paranoia ,there kinda the athiests in denial types id call em

I am an agnostic, an agnostic THEIST. With beliefs very similar to pantheistic beliefs. An agnostic is simply someone who thinks God cannot be proven. I don't think it can.

An atheist is someone with a lack of a belief in God. Since I believe in God, theres no way I could qualify for that.

Whats hypothetical paranoia? Or an atheist in denial?

no just a piece of crap keyboard and no desk so im forced to type with it on my knees,and sometimes i dont pay attention to my grammatical errors and ,later on notice em ,and am like''frick!that really degrades my appearance i portray''

That certainly doesn't help.


another contradiction eh?lol but you just said following the ideas of other is just plain ol silly,,,well hate to tell ya but faith has to be based upon religion if were speaking in creation terms here,so therefore your saying that you have some sorta faith by the statement you just gave us,,and in turn your saying that your faith is bestowed upon some sorta of religion which in the dominoe effect im explaining is based upon someones interpetation of what they wrote down,,,,sigh*well if you somehow left outsomethin again which''i didnt understand'' feel free to tell me,but dont be so vague this time,this isnt a literary sharades game we got goin on here,so lets not resort to that plz?

Why does faith have to have anything to do with religious doctrine? In case you still haven't noticed, I do not belong to any organized religion.

I'm not sure which 'contradiction' you were referring to, so its hard to give you a much better answer then that.

^^^^lol you just lost me again!!its amazing how you will say somethin what makesa bit of sense to me,but then it just collapses ,*very tricky* it sounds almost like your saying that religion is a lie[which im not arguing,mind you]and through that misty lie you can grasp truths,,,well i hate to tell you,but if you just believe in certain parts of a religion and deny the rest of it,youve succeeded in making your own lil hokey religion,congratulations? you should sens us video clips of you speakin in tongues and rollin around on the floor holdin snakes

You are an idiot.

You can't know the truth...its not possible for you to comprehend. But you can begin to understand bits and pieces of it, which can only be expressed through lies.

I am not referring to any religious doctrine here.

well you see the thing is,,we want to find truth through actual ways that can be proven,this is also referred to as evidence,look it up

Then you'll be chasing question after question until you die.

a reason is a basis of cause,,as in me saying such ,i never exactly said there was a specific reason for our origin to begin with ,if i was to say such that would mean that i would have to believe in some higher life form creating us for a reason???so as to where you came up with that reply to me,i havent the slightest clue and well but i could say that the reason we are here is cause of evolution and the big bang theory so actually in a way i could say that,but it wasnt a reason that was planned by some figure is the difference

Thats the reason atheists don't believe in God. No evidence.

Can you explain to me the Big Bang? What it was like, how it was caused, why it happened? Can you fully explain evolution? I doubt it, because even the people at the top in that field of science still debate over it.

Those answers don't explain anything, they only open up more questions...which is good, but not what we're trying to accomplish here. And how is following along with what some scientist has told you any different then following along with what some preacher told you?

I believe in the Big Bang theory of the creation of the universe, and I believe in evolution. I also probably have a much better understanding of both then you, since I have shown that I know both do not ultimately answer anything.

Just for your own information, I personally don't think God 'plan's' anything. Thats just crap you assume about my beliefs because you assume if I'm not an atheist, then I must have my head shoved so far up a preachers ass I can't perceive reality on my own. After your comments on the Big Bang and evolution, I wonder if you posses that ability. I bet you think you do.

never did??you keep going back and forth by the way,one moment you sound all die hard agnostic the next you sound like a lovin lil pie faced evangelist

I'm not sure what the "never did??" is referring to. As for the rest...you should read my other responses.

You have again failed to place your responses correctly after the parts of my response you are responding to. I will try my best, and assume that every block of text corresponds to one of my responses, in the same order I gave them.



Religion is silly. I am not religious.

Atheism doesn't answer any questions, it only makes more.

Check out the 'atheists are morally superior to believers' thread to see why your opinion is not correct.

(I had more written for this^^ one, but totse ate it. So you get the simplified shortened version now.)



I am an agnostic, an agnostic THEIST. With beliefs very similar to pantheistic beliefs. An agnostic is simply someone who thinks God cannot be proven. I don't think it can.

An atheist is someone with a lack of a belief in God. Since I believe in God, theres no way I could qualify for that.

Whats hypothetical paranoia? Or an atheist in denial?



That certainly doesn't help.




Why does faith have to have anything to do with religious doctrine? In case you still haven't noticed, I do not belong to any organized religion.

I'm not sure which 'contradiction' you were referring to, so its hard to give you a much better answer then that.



You are an idiot.

You can't know the truth...its not possible for you to comprehend. But you can begin to understand bits and pieces of it, which can only be expressed through lies.

I am not referring to any religious doctrine here.



Then you'll be chasing question after question until you die.



Thats the reason atheists don't believe in God. No evidence.

Can you explain to me the Big Bang? What it was like, how it was caused, why it happened? Can you fully explain evolution? I doubt it, because even the people at the top in that field of science still debate over it.

Those answers don't explain anything, they only open up more questions...which is good, but not what we're trying to accomplish here. And how is following along with what some scientist has told you any different then following along with what some preacher told you?

I believe in the Big Bang theory of the creation of the universe, and I believe in evolution. I also probably have a much better understanding of both then you, since I have shown that I know both do not ultimately answer anything.

Just for your own information, I personally don't think God 'plan's' anything. Thats just crap you assume about my beliefs because you assume if I'm not an atheist, then I must have my head shoved so far up a preachers ass I can't perceive reality on my own. After your comments on the Big Bang and evolution, I wonder if you posses that ability. I bet you think you do.



I'm not sure what the "never did??" is referring to. As for the rest...you should read my other responses.




first of all yes,each of my block answers are replys to yours goining from start to finish*



ok for starters if you say somethin like,,athiesim is silly and then continue to go on and say that the only answer which would be an end all lies in faith you come off as a evangelist,,sorry to tell ya,unless your bien hypothetical with it and sayin that one would have to be a religious hoot to be satisfied in there quest to find out the answer to the origin of us and well all creation





ok hypothetical paranoia is more or less a synonym phrase for me saying that agnostics choose to be agnostic out of fear out of the whole.,.but what if there is a god,,,,i shouldnt become a full fledged athiest because if i do,,i might be in too deep,,and many of the agnostics i meet are this way you can almost read it off of thier personalitys in a conversation,





ya i know -_-






faith has to do with religious doctrine cause well think about it if not for the dsoctrine then you wouldnt be believing in that individual religion it all stems from it,for instance the preacher has to preach right,and what does he prech from?the doctrine,and what are u supposed to abide by in your religion,,,your doctrine,,,and so in turn having faith directly correalates to the doctrine or else that would mean you would have had none to begin with cause your just believing in your own interpetation and not the actual thing,,,see thats another thing i do in fact despise about the whole religious populace,,is that alotta of em will sy stuff like '''well i dont think it happend like htat ,and i think it went down like this'''or ''noooo,,im sure he didnt mean that,we should do this unlike he sid'' wow sounds kinda blasphemous




i never said i could know the truth???lol all i said was that the path of athiesim is the closest will get to it more or less,everything else is for a lack of better words,wasting our time,and well my personal opinion on it all is that mankind created religion since we are so vain,in the early ages i can very well see someone saying somethin like''but i walk on two feet and i can speak,there must be something more for me since i am such a higher bieng then these other animals''and alot o fpeople want that security of there bieng something after death....it really sickens me actually its like ,goddamn just deal with it,but i still stand by my saying that we should all be tolerant




chasing question after question is a better way then to just accept things the way they are......and not further my scope of things





ok ok,i dont possibly see how you misunderstood me here,i never said they had all the answers for the big bang theory it hasnt been completely proven enough to where we can show the world actual evidence huge enough that thell submit to the answer of logic and say yes,your right,,,,and how is it different then following a preachers words?well thats simple the scientists is based on reason and evidence where as the preachers is based on faith,,and i dont completely follow the scientists i dont wait on answers from them constantly i just believe factual evidence is shown and when i see such published somewhere i first read up on it and then if it is practical i agree[makes sense]im not just going to become a mindless follower...



and you said you shouldnt feel questions with god did,it then you said seek the truth,,,and i said that i never did??

ok for starters if you say somethin like,,athiesim is silly and then continue to go on and say that the only answer which would be an end all lies in faith you come off as a evangelist,,sorry to tell ya,unless your bien hypothetical with it and sayin that one would have to be a religious hoot to be satisfied in there quest to find out the answer to the origin of us and well all creation

No, you assume that about me because you believe faith is something that has to directly relate with some sort of religious doctrine. How could you possibly think I believe you need faith in a religion, when I have already said a number of times that organized religion is silly.

I think in order for you to believe you have an understanding of how reality works, it must be based on faith. Everything based on evidence always causes more questions.

This is because in believing you have an understanding of how reality works, you are also understanding what God is. As an agnostic, I don't think God can be proved or disproved. This is why an ultimate answer would require faith.

ok hypothetical paranoia is more or less a synonym phrase for me saying that agnostics choose to be agnostic out of fear out of the whole.,.but what if there is a god,,,,i shouldnt become a full fledged athiest because if i do,,i might be in too deep,,and many of the agnostics i meet are this way you can almost read it off of thier personalitys in a conversation,

I am sure those people exist.

I assure you I am not one of them.

faith has to do with religious doctrine cause well think about it if not for the dsoctrine then you wouldnt be believing in that individual religion it all stems from it,for instance the preacher has to preach right,and what does he prech from?the doctrine,and what are u supposed to abide by in your religion,,,your doctrine,,,and so in turn having faith directly correalates to the doctrine or else that would mean you would have had none to begin with cause your just believing in your own interpetation and not the actual thing,,,see thats another thing i do in fact despise about the whole religious populace,,is that alotta of em will sy stuff like '''well i dont think it happend like htat ,and i think it went down like this'''or ''noooo,,im sure he didnt mean that,we should do this unlike he sid'' wow sounds kinda blasphemous

Well, organized religions are silly bud. I don't know how many times I gotta tell you before it sinks in but...there it is again.

Faith does not need to relate to any organized religions tales and beliefs. It can be completely personal.

Whats wrong with people having there own interpretations of reality? Or, if they belong to an organized religion, their own interpretation of religious doctrine?

i never said i could know the truth???lol all i said was that the path of athiesim is the closest will get to it more or less,everything else is for a lack of better words,wasting our time,and well my personal opinion on it all is that mankind created religion since we are so vain,in the early ages i can very well see someone saying somethin like''but i walk on two feet and i can speak,there must be something more for me since i am such a higher bieng then these other animals''and alot o fpeople want that security of there bieng something after death....it really sickens me actually its like ,goddamn just deal with it,but i still stand by my saying that we should all be tolerant

I never said you said you did. I was simply stating that.

As an atheist you will either be content in not knowing, or forever searching for answers. I have explained above why finding an answer would require faith, and cause you to become something besides atheist.

Why are all the alternatives to atheism for you organized religion? You can think for yourself too you know.

chasing question after question is a better way then to just accept things the way they are......and not further my scope of things

In what ways does believing in God limit my scope? Gaining knowledge is great. But you'll never find an ultimate answer through atheism.

ok ok,i dont possibly see how you misunderstood me here,i never said they had all the answers for the big bang theory it hasnt been completely proven enough to where we can show the world actual evidence huge enough that thell submit to the answer of logic and say yes,your right,,,,and how is it different then following a preachers words?well thats simple the scientists is based on reason and evidence where as the preachers is based on faith,,and i dont completely follow the scientists i dont wait on answers from them constantly i just believe factual evidence is shown and when i see such published somewhere i first read up on it and then if it is practical i agree[makes sense]im not just going to become a mindless follower...

And I can agree that a scientist certainly knows more about reality then most preachers. But if you want to have an ultimate answer, it requires faith. Again, faith does not require religion.

If it does, then would you mind telling me which religion I'm oh-so mindlessly following?

and you said you shouldnt feel questions with god did,it then you said seek the truth,,,and i said that i never did??

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Really man, slow down and take your time if you want me to understand what you're trying to communicate.

Edit- and goddammit, learn to break down a quote so I know what parts of my post you're referring to. I don't mind having a discussion, but when I can't understand what you've typed, or what it was in response to, it makes it really difficult for me type anything worthwhile, or even know if what I've typed makes sense with what I think you've typed.

No, you assume that about me because you believe faith is something that has to directly relate with some sort of religious doctrine. How could you possibly think I believe you need faith in a religion, when I have already said a number of times that organized religion is silly.

I think in order for you to believe you have an understanding of how reality works, it must be based on faith. Everything based on evidence always causes more questions.

This is because in believing you have an understanding of how reality works, you are also understanding what God is. As an agnostic, I don't think God can be proved or disproved. This is why an ultimate answer would require faith.



I am sure those people exist.

I assure you I am not one of them.



Well, organized religions are silly bud. I don't know how many times I gotta tell you before it sinks in but...there it is again.

Faith does not need to relate to any organized religions tales and beliefs. It can be completely personal.

Whats wrong with people having there own interpretations of reality? Or, if they belong to an organized religion, their own interpretation of religious doctrine?



I never said you said you did. I was simply stating that.

As an atheist you will either be content in not knowing, or forever searching for answers. I have explained above why finding an answer would require faith, and cause you to become something besides atheist.

Why are all the alternatives to atheism for you organized religion? You can think for yourself too you know.



In what ways does believing in God limit my scope? Gaining knowledge is great. But you'll never find an ultimate answer through atheism.



And I can agree that a scientist certainly knows more about reality then most preachers. But if you want to have an ultimate answer, it requires faith. Again, faith does not require religion.

If it does, then would you mind telling me which religion I'm oh-so mindlessly following?



I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Really man, slow down and take your time if you want me to understand what you're trying to communicate.

Edit- and goddammit, learn to break down a quote so I know what parts of my post you're referring to. I don't mind having a discussion, but when I can't understand what you've typed, or what it was in response to, it makes it really difficult for me type anything worthwhile, or even know if what I've typed makes sense with what I think you've typed.



this is the reply to the first 3 statements you had)

of course faith has to correalate with religious doctrine if it didnt then it would just be some random persons cult lol,think about it,,,i dont see in how believing gives you a scale of how things work??everything is pretty damn simple in the bible or well most religions it all revolves around and then i that i am spoke and that that i would have ,became''-_-////yes this is very common in the everyday world,i mean just the other day i wanted a Lamborgini,and i jsut said the word,and viola my red sleek sports car was in front of me,


yes and those people irritate the shit out of me to no degrees end,my best friend whos gay is one and well hes the type of person whos almost a total social recluse and he always comes up with these incompetent arguements that i can easily make soder out of ina matter of seconds,also i=ve noticed alot of em have to do research before they try to do impormptu debating,where as most of us athiests can just use prior knowledge weve had fors ome time and just backhand thier logic,and like 90% of them i meet are all against war all the way,,, i mean no im not some war crazed right wing nut job but there are times for war and there are times not for war,but they all seem to think theres never any time for em,,i kinda jsut lump agnostics in with the hippies and thier wild lil theories and crazy conspiracys they think took place,i wouldnt be suprised if i found a commune somewhere where all of em were agnostic



but its good your not of that sort i suppose


and i think your of the christian sort cause you keep saying stuff like i cant prove or disprove god,i can only assume your speakin of the christain god when you say such since hes the only one most people refer to as ''god'',and i can give an example by saying the such as when you say ,understanding what god is,it sounds like your in turn saying,''god is real,and thats what i see him as''


whats wrong with people havin thier own interpetations,,well ill tell you,thank you for asking--its the fact that once they start substituting text with thier own ideas,they then pass what they believe on to thier kids[kinda liek the cult thing i was speakin of]and evenually down the road theyll change the actual text of the book maybe,,but you know maybe this is a good thing cause itll be the downfall eventually of religion then will have a hella lot more peace on this planet and we can actually move forward.although i can only say this about the christian religion,,now the muslims ,,there goin to be hte last ones i think,theres is sucha vicious one at that too,i gurantee thell be another crusades look alike war cycle will have with em[well christians will have with em]i mean theyve stayed in tact with thier doctrine and well,,,thats bad news for the christians cause they havent lost any of thier gungho where as alot of christians are fat ,lazy gluttons[most of em in the states anyways]


i never said i couldnt think for myself,theres no exact lsit of rules i have to abide by when i choose to be an athiest,its just more of a term really,and a pride thing,when i tell people i cant help but gloat almost,cause i feel that its the right path to a better future,almost like ima humanitarian,,and well i dont consider bieng agnostic a possibility for me,i dont like grey areas and thats what an agnostic is to me,id feel like i was shifty and thats how i view em,shifty creatures more or less,sorta like the french,lol yes thats my view of em[along with the hippy one]


o and wellreligion involves faith,,you cant say it doesnt,,,,and you sound like your into the christian god more or less like i stated above

and i feel that my thoughts are flowing quite nicely thank you,or at least articulate enough for you to comprehend,but you seem to be of the contrary,i think the problem may be is that im not using any references and im using it all off of the knowledge i have and previous researching,,plus i dont put 110% here unless it requires me to do so,,no point in throwin downt he iron curtain if its not needed yet

^^^

This is why i dislike anyone who is hyper-dogmatic (note, this means atheists and theists alike)and feels it is their job to force their beliefs on others without thinking about the fact that the other is in the same position and neither will probably be swayed.

Argument is a wonderful thing, but not when it gets heated to a point where the individuals throw reason and logic out the window and begin attacking each other and lose all dignity.
Take no offense Obbe and devilsadvocate, but you two aren't getting anywhere and neither will. I think we all need to just accept others beliefs and then we can discuss their merits in an organized manner.

as for the OP:
I do not dislike atheists in general and support their right to their non-beliefs.
I just don't like people that fit the description above.

uhm we didnt lose any dignity bearcat?lol we havent even made it a heated discussion,yes were arguin,but well wer enot like in bloodlust mode to c the otherone just fail to come up with a reply,we are simpyl questioning each others and if u read our posts ud notice that we both said that people should be tolerant of others opinions and beliefs

of course faith has to correalate with religious doctrine

If you are religious. I am not. I have faith in God.

Therefore, faith does not necessarily have anything to do with religion.

i kinda jsut lump agnostics in with the hippies and thier wild lil theories and crazy conspiracys they think took place,i wouldnt be suprised if i found a commune somewhere where all of em were agnostic

but its good your not of that sort i suppose


I'm not what YOU think the word means, but I am in fact agnostic. And you would probably call me a hippie too.

You shouldn't generalize people like that.

and i think your of the christian sort

Even though I have told you I'm not religious, and the closest things you could call me is an agnostic pantheist.

cause you keep saying stuff like i cant prove or disprove god,

Again, that would be agnostic.

i can only assume your speakin of the christain god when you say such since hes the only one most people refer to as ''god'',and i can give an example by saying the such as when you say ,understanding what god is,it sounds like your in turn saying,''god is real,and thats what i see him as''

Well then you've been educated.

I'm not talking about the Christian God! Amazing!

...:rolleyes:

whats wrong with people havin thier own interpetations,,well ill tell you,thank you for asking--its the fact that once they start substituting text with thier own ideas,they then pass what they believe on to thier kids[kinda liek the cult thing i was speakin of]and evenually down the road theyll change the actual text of the book maybe,,but you know maybe this is a good thing cause itll be the downfall eventually of religion then will have a hella lot more peace on this planet and we can actually move forward.although i can only say this about the christian religion,,now the muslims ,,there goin to be hte last ones i think,theres is sucha vicious one at that too,i gurantee thell be another crusades look alike war cycle will have with em[well christians will have with em]i mean theyve stayed in tact with thier doctrine and well,,,thats bad news for the christians cause they havent lost any of thier gungho where as alot of christians are fat ,lazy gluttons[most of em in the states anyways]

You really are an idiot. I'm not trying to be mean, its just...I have nothing else to say.

Could there....no, no its impossible....we-elll....could there possibly be a form of free-thinking...besides atheism? Even more free?

No, never....right?

Or is that what I've been talking about for last two days??

i never said i couldnt think for myself,theres no exact lsit of rules i have to abide by when i choose to be an athiest,its just more of a term really,and a pride thing,when i tell people i cant help but gloat almost,cause i feel that its the right path to a better future,almost like ima humanitarian,,and well i dont consider bieng agnostic a possibility for me,i dont like grey areas and thats what an agnostic is to me,id feel like i was shifty and thats how i view em,shifty creatures more or less,sorta like the french,lol yes thats my view of em[along with the hippy one]

:rolleyes:


o and wellreligion involves faith,,you cant say it doesnt,,,,and you sound like your into the christian god more or less like i stated above

I never said religion doesn't, I said religion is not necessary for faith. And if you think I'm into ANY religion after the things I've said....you're illiterate. Sorry.

and i feel that my thoughts are flowing quite nicely thank you,or at least articulate enough for you to comprehend,but you seem to be of the contrary,i think the problem may be is that im not using any references and im using it all off of the knowledge i have and previous researching,,plus i dont put 110% here unless it requires me to do so,,no point in throwin downt he iron curtain if its not needed yet

It seems slightly better today, as if you only drank half as much as usual.

uhm we didnt lose any dignity bearcat?lol we havent even made it a heated discussion,yes were arguin,but well wer enot like in bloodlust mode to c the otherone just fail to come up with a reply,we are simpyl questioning each others and if u read our posts ud notice that we both said that people should be tolerant of others opinions and beliefs

i have been reading the arguement and have noticed that most of the responses always have some sort of i'm right your wrong tone to them, ie:

You really are an idiot. I'm not trying to be mean, its just...I have nothing else to say.
Could there....no, no its impossible....we-elll....could there possibly be a form of free-thinking...besides atheism? Even more free?
No, never....right?

obbe's getting there, but i actually can't understand some of your posts because they are not only lacking in spelling and things, which you already clarified was due to your keyboard situation so i can deal with that, but that they are also very incoherent as well and i can't exactly make out what point you are trying to get across in them. that and your method of quoting is making it so i have to scroll up an down to see what you are replying to, etc...

as stated, while i enjoy a good argument, and while it is between you two at the moment, I'd like to see a little more clarity and control of emotions in the posting. I'm not a mod or anything, so you don't have to listen to me, but its just a request, as i particularly enjoy the debates between atheists and theists, and agnostics too. and being a registered member now, i can take part in them as well :) i may jump in on the next set of rebuttals to see if my thoughts can add anything to the table

i seriousley hope your joking about the whole me not bieng coherent part....if you havent noticed that is what most of my replys were about when debating with him about his beliefs......


lol yes its so obvious that your just a specter still....

i seriousley hope your joking about the whole me not bieng coherent part....

just the fact you only use periods and line breaks a the end of the entire paragraph. Your debate is good, but its not easy to read.

just the fact you only use periods and line breaks a the end of the entire paragraph. Your debate is good, but its not easy to read.





ok i think what you meant to type was.....=


. Your debate is good, but its not easy to read and to add to the difficulty theres the fact that you dont use any periods and line breaks at the end of any of your paragraphs.


but you instead wrote ....lol


just the fact you only use periods and line breaks a the end of the entire paragraph. Your debate is good, but its not easy to read.


and you know i dont see you contributing to our lil thought comparsion we had goin on,,,so it would seem your tryin to be just a critic,,,but then again....a critic would doa bit better,lol and i wouldnt say anything about bieng coherent from now on ,cause with the way you tried to express yourself through that one statement above seems to demonstrate that you probably cant grasp the definition of coherent
lol but i loved the irony in your post radiates,kudos to you for makin me chuckle

o yes and i prefer to write longhand...no breaks for the most part,and no periods,i do use commas however,longhand is a style more prefered by those who become passionate to a degree about what there writing and dont wish to be interupted by the constant hassle of periods and breaks and what not

as stated, while i enjoy a good argument, and while it is between you two at the moment, I'd like to see a little more clarity and control of emotions in the posting. I'm not a mod or anything, so you don't have to listen to me, but its just a request, as i particularly enjoy the debates between atheists and theists, and agnostics too. and being a registered member now, i can take part in them as well :) i may jump in on the next set of rebuttals to see if my thoughts can add anything to the table

Just so we're clear...

I am not trying to force my beliefs on him. I am simply trying to get him to correctly understand the things that I have written, as his posts clearly indicate he does not. I don't want someone to misunderstand something like that, especially since some of his speculations about me are almost completely opposite from what I've been trying to communicate.

obbe's getting there

And I wish I wouldn't. But what can I say...I don't claim to be enlightened or to have lost my ego. I am still a stupid little human, and being so I get frustrated with stupid annoyances.

Such as having someone completely misunderstand something I've taken time to write clearly in hopes that it will be easier for others to understand, and then having to sift through their garbled blocks of text and grammatical nonsense to try and correct their mistaken assumptions about my beliefs and my personality. And have them still fail to correctly understand.

That being said though, you're completely correct. We all need to just accept others beliefs and then we can discuss their merits in an organized manner.

...a style more prefered by those who become passionate to a degree about what there writing and dont wish to be interupted by the constant hassle of periods and breaks and what not

Yeah. Okay.

:D

short answer-

impatient atheists often act like complete turds.

religious folks often question nonbelievers or make subtle suggestions the heathens are incorrect somehow.

These two things are like political parties- each uses the other's advance as a welcome mat...... an unwelcome mat.

:(

hmm,,,,i think i pretty much fully understood you obbe from most of your posts,its just you kept sayin stuff that i could still percieve you as bieng of the christian sort more or less,and that was what made me keep postig


and wow wheres bearcat lol???it seems my correction scared him off,yes im aware it was a bit harsh,but ya know,i just have to return the spite in the form of correcting others in thier grammatical errors and there insipid ideaologies of all of us off the stroke of something they clearly couldnt see in the first place

i mean afterall i am AN part of the evil athiest party yall seem to think exist -_-

lol slowly by slowly i see more numbers coming here saing something more and more offesnively bold against athiests but somethin a whole lot gentler forthe thiests and agnostics

yes bieng a athiest is a whole lot more extreme then bieng an agnostic,or dare i say ''christian''
but it doesnt include such features that were impatient if i was anywhere near impatient would i still be replying to this thread?i think not,,,and wait where are the christians in here??thats right,,,there isnt any real evangelists sprouting up yet,,,why u ask??well i feel the intimidation factor has somethin to do with it for one,or they cant straighten up a good enough story yet to throw at us,the closest one i could label as almost bieng a christian in here is obbe,lawlz,,and well thatd almost be like asking a voodoo doctor to recite excerpts from the bible

but who knows maybe the christains will flood in now since ive made my lil recognition of thier absence,,maybe ive opened the floodgates to hell now,well for the possibility of seeing any logic if my wforshadowing of events takes place as ive said ,,and yes lol i know my paragraphs in this last post are quite dramatic,to the tenth degree even

hmm,,,,i think i pretty much fully understood you obbe from most of your posts,its just you kept sayin stuff that i could still percieve you as bieng of the christian sort more or less,and that was what made me keep postig

Fully understood eh?

Uh huh...

Do you understand that faith does not have to relate to organized religion?

Do you understand what an agnostic is?

Do you understand why I don't think atheists will ever posses ultimate truth?

Do you have any clue towards my beliefs of God and reality?

And what the hell do mean when you say atheism is more 'extreme'???

Fully understood eh?

Uh huh...

Do you understand that faith does not have to relate to organized religion?

Do you understand what an agnostic is?

Do you understand why I don't think atheists will ever posses ultimate truth?

Do you have any clue towards my beliefs of God and reality?



sigh* once again ill repeat myself,as tedious as it may be,but it is for the benifet of obbe and im just that genuine of a guy...*trys to suppress laughter*


well when were speaking of religion or creation it generally does,,or like i said its jsut some cult you came up with more or less[yes thats dramatic too i know

an agnostic is someone who doesnt deny the complete existance of a diety but doesnt know


yes,because you said i alot of times that you think its in faith-_- trust me im fulla ware of your ideas on that part


what i said above stands for this answer to your question you pose as well

well when were speaking of religion or creation it generally does,,or like i said its jsut some cult you came up with more or less[yes thats dramatic too i know

This does not explain how faith can be separate from organized religion (Organized...thats including cults).

Personal Spirituality? That mean anything to you?

an agnostic is someone who doesnt deny the complete existance of a diety but doesnt know

An agnostic is someone who believes you cannot prove God. This person can either be an agnostic atheist, or an agnostic theist...or maybe even in between.

I am an agnostic theist. I like pantheism specifically.

yes,because you said i alot of times that you think its in faith-_- trust me im fulla ware of your ideas on that part

Yes. Because in my opinion, the truth is only learned through lies, and therefore is based on faith.

what i said above stands for this answer to your question you pose as well

No, not really. Do you think that to me God is a magical bearded giant who magically 'makes' things happen? Who gets pissed off and punishes? Or even has physical form and a line of thought above awareness?

How about the multiple dimensions of reality that we are unaware of? That everything possesses consciousness? That these things are produced by and form the tenth dimension; God.

All my opinion...but did you understand that before now? Do you understand it now?

yes about 70% of that i had sorta gathered from your replies,but you did a better job of cleaning it up for clarity wise,which i appreciated,and to me spirituality also has to ussualy has to intertwine with faith/religion,but yes the way you keep describing yourself im more and more begining to imagine a hippy more than an average joe

re read my commune joke waaaay back,and but yes im sure youll agree were pretty much the only life to this thread and when any other forms of sentient trys to brash thier way upon here they are easily froced back upon thier hollow trenches of thoughts from which they reside

how to depressing,and your still the closest thing toa christian i have to talk to in here and debate,,at least your not quite as bad and you dont take it to the absurdity most of em do ,and im gracious you dont believe ina damn hell or else im for sure youd be flinging me the damnation threats left and right

to me spirituality also has to ussualy has to intertwine with faith/religion,but yes the way you keep describing yourself im more and more begining to imagine a hippy more than an average joe

Maybe in all of your experiences spiritual people only exist while belonging to an organized religion. But there are, in actuality, many people who are spiritual with beliefs not discovered through a religion...and sometimes discovered through many.

when any other forms of sentient trys to brash thier way upon here they are easily froced back upon thier hollow trenches of thoughts from which they reside

It sucks that the thread degraded to basically two people.

I wish others would join in.

how to depressing,and your still the closest thing toa christian i have to talk to in here and debate,,at least your not quite as bad and you dont take it to the absurdity most of em do ,and im gracious you dont believe ina damn hell or else im for sure youd be flinging me the damnation threats left and right

You really should open your mind.

...oh...and faith does not necessarily relate to religion.

well the only others i can think of envisioning as posessing the traits of spirituality would be humorous trivial sorts such as shamans and voodoo/witch doctors

o o and the pagans,i love em so dearly they crack me up..but not as much as the wickens,,,geez


and as to me opening my mind??that almsot sounded like you were trying to insinuate that i was ignorant and arrogant ,,well its just that the thiest types are never too much for backinbg up thier claim with actual evidence,,i mean lets be honest pullin out mumbo jumbo and sayin but i believe its true,and it feels right,,,,isnt substantial evidence,and is laughable

as to me opening my mind??that almsot sounded like you were trying to insinuate that i was ignorant and arrogant ,,

ahem,

well the only others i can think of envisioning as posessing the traits of spirituality would be humorous trivial sorts such as shamans and voodoo/witch doctors

o o and the pagans,i love em so dearly they crack me up..but not as much as the wickens,,,geez

:rolleyes:

This coming from the person who said,

you should just live your life as you see fit and if others dont agree or live differently then so what,it shouldnt affect you

well its just that the thiest types are never too much for backinbg up thier claim with actual evidence,,i mean lets be honest pullin out mumbo jumbo and sayin but i believe its true,and it feels right,,,,isnt substantial evidence,and is laughable

Can you back up the big bang for me sparky?

How about consciousness? What is that stuff? Do you and I perceive the same reality?

No, you can't explain those. So you're not getting any closer to the truth through atheism either, you're just a lot less sheepish, and a lot more open to science, which is good.

In my opinion, being agnostic is admitting you do not know, which is something true about all others. Pantheism, combined with string theory, seems to explain reality. In my opinion.

yes i did say that,but im not contradicting it in anyways,im merely sayng that there odd people,not that i go out and blatantly make assaults on thier beliefs,,lol jus that i find them strange a bit,ill still socialize with em if i have too


and no i cant but the same could be said for spirituality,or well that a diety would ever exist[susbstantial evidence is what im hinting at here by the way,so please dont use any hypothetical things that you see as proof unless there is a formula or actual real logic we can see backing it up,i mean thi s in a sincere way for your info]



ahh i fear this long debate is coming to a close,i mean whats really left to discuss,im sure we could go deeper into the semantics of things,and i could go site stuff and copy and paste excerpts from athiest authors literature ,and sceintific studys,and what not and then im sure you could do likewise,but i think it would come down to who can find more and which lands home more than the other,,,but either way we could make it go on and on if we wanted,and well like we said no one else is joining in,id love to have that miracle number percent thing thrown at me what is it again 1.3 repeating?

I was never really trying to pit theism against atheism. I was simply replying to the thread, to others, and clearing up your misconceptions about my beliefs.

I know the same can be said for spirituality. Which is why I said agnosticism is admitting that you do not actually know, which is true. Ultimate truth, which can only be communicated through lies, can only be found in theism...but lies are in no way evidence.

For informational purposes, this is a concept which aids in building my concept of God:

Educational Video (http://www.tenthdimension.com/medialinks.php)

Holy shit this thread is a madhouse.

About half of each of you guy's posts are reasonable, and a sentence or two in each one just has a sour note embedded in it... like a cracked bell or the black keys on a piano being mushed all at once.

I am going to participate in this thread now.

My problem with athiests? Nothing, really. As long as they shut the fuck up about religion unless the subject is of relevance.

My problem with Christians? Often times, they are very reasonable due to the values woven into the faith (save the hypocritical people that naturally occur at varying rates), BUT sometimes they lack a certain degree of "back-to-the-basics" reasoning. Primal reasoning if you will. From the ground up. There is usually somehting that a Christian CAN NOT "agree to disagree" on.

"Divine truth" can be different things to different people.

An athiest? For them I presume it is like a non-divine denial. Like gay sex, if you can sleep on it and not get bad dreams, hey do whatever man, glad you're happy with nothing.

Obb, I think that you are wrong to think that people have to be theists to experience this. I can not quite explain [my feelings], but use your imagination. Plenty of far out beleifs can be upheld fostering a sublime serenity and feeling of "being in one's place" and at harmony with life and altruistic love of fellow man.

What is my uber-truth-o-rama?
Well.. it doesn't involve a god or gods or even spirits, but simply a certain animated, emotional magic to be found in everything from the tiniest grain of sand to the biggest redwood. I am a denizen of nature, and everything in my opinion should be treated with respect. Maybe I am talking about the golden rule-except extended to encompass inanimate objects as well as animate ones. I am at peace with myself and how I feel, and when people feel "lost" I can only feel sorry for them because I am stranded in my own comfortable, soothing understanding which I try not to press onto anybody.

I can set up a little stick-doll-effigy in the woods somewhere happily posted lookout on a branch of a tree and walk away listening to the birds with the same sense of satisfaction as if I pleased a friend or family member. I made those little sticks happy and the woods smiled back at me.

I get dragged down when people lack respect for each other, refuse to understand, and deny that the nature contained within this planet deserves much more gratitude then it is frequently given- it fucking created you. Give it some love. Even if it is in a token way.

I think a lot of the unhappiness experienced today is similar to the "cycle of grief."

What are we grieving? Nature.... our disconnect from our mother has left a void we fill with an egocentricism and consuming. A sense of revenge and dissociation from the real cycles of the elements and the life which simply observing can bring happiness, or at least a sense of wonder.

I know I have my divinity, and it is gratitude, enthusiasm, and love of the planet. Yeah it's sappy, but I [*song*oooooh baaaaaby he-] got it.

And any sense of a god is absent. I beleive that sort of introspection is unnecessary and what we should all be looking for is "comfortable acceptance."

That may or may not have made a damn bit of sense, but I hope I at least had a smoke-bomb-effect of some sort in this thread.

ya uhm,,, ou cam eoff as a huge wiccan there lol,,,,,well at least you didnt marvel about palm reading,,haha

and hey if you have fun believin your lil dolls are enjoyin the wild life of the great outdoors then all the more power to ya bud


i geuss imaginary friends are friends none the less

lawl

but that was crude of me!lol im suprised you came down on obbe more than u did me,who u didnt mentioned,i was for sure yalld b ein cahoots together,what with such similarities,i at first glance thought you to be an agnostic but very soon realized otherwise

well good for you for bieng happy i suppose,i reccomend using bug spray which includes tick in the pest list of critters it keeps away from ya,,o and avoid the quicksand,and well dont forget your machate cant leave hom,e without it right?=P

A lot of times (especially on the internet), Christian people are disrespected and libeled by certain atheists who shrug them off as mentally inferior or stereotype them as radical evangelicals who hate non-believers. Likewise, atheists get the same treatment from some Christians.

It's easy to assume that all christians hate atheists (and vice versa) when the only exposure to the other side anyone nowdays sees is the radicals who get media attention or the 13 year old kids who parade around on forums spurting worthless rhetoric.

Everyone seems to forget that most of the world doesn't care what their or anyone else's personal stance towards religion is.

well thank you friend for stating what we already know,,would you also like to now describe anything else which is bluntly obvious???---and you know if you had paid attention to the thread you wouldve came to the understandin that weve gone way past your mundane perception,,yes im bien a bit harsh but seriously just gtfo if you dont liek the way your handeling stuff,,or maybe you could actually use a brain cell or two and contribute something we dont already know...

well thank you friend for stating what we already know,,would you also like to now describe anything else which is bluntly obvious???---and you know if you had paid attention to the thread you wouldve came to the understandin that weve gone way past your mundane perception,,yes im bien a bit harsh but seriously just gtfo if you dont liek the way your handeling stuff,,or maybe you could actually use a brain cell or two and contribute something we dont already know...

It's great that you care so much for this thread. That was made completely clear by the fact that you wasted your time writing this ego-fueling post flaming me for not feeling like reading through 9 pages of whatever the fuck you felt like talking about and just adding my response to the thread topic. Next time I'll definitely check to make sure that nobody else said anything that was kind of sort of related to my post and will refrain from putting my opinion on the internet in a thread that asked for it. I'll also remember how much more authority you have than I do, since you apparently love to harass people for not "contributing" to your isolated discussion that just happened to take up pages of a thread that you didn't start. I completely forgot that you own the thread when you decide to talk in it for a while.

Heres some advice: Next time someone posts something completely related to the thread topic, don't bother writing a paragraph flaming them because you'll look like a fucking retard who has no idea how a civil message board works. Also, sentences. Coherent ones.

uhm the whole point of this thread is to actually get somewhere all you did is come in and gripe,,,,and then you did some more griping and here i am,,all i asked is that you please actually type somethin thats worth us to invest time in to read,,,but you seem unfit obviously,,,-and if that was your opinion youd think you could spruce it up a bit i mean itd be like if i reposted a greeting 20 times ina row on the thread,,no one would want to read that shit,,,so im sorry if i came off a bit rude the first time around,,but more or less try to add something to the mix instead of just stirring the same flavor

uhm the whole point of this thread is to actually get somewhere all you did is come in and gripe,,,,and then you did some more griping and here i am,,all i asked is that you please actually type somethin thats worth us to invest time in to read,,,but you seem unfit obviously,,,-and if that was your opinion youd think you could spruce it up a bit i mean itd be like if i reposted a greeting 20 times ina row on the thread,,no one would want to read that shit,,,so im sorry if i came off a bit rude the first time around,,but more or less try to add something to the mix instead of just stirring the same flavor

You don't get it. The "point" of a forum is so that people can post their opinions about a topic. People don't have to read through pages and pages of conversation to reply to something. If I never came along, you and whoever you were talking to could continue on with whatever you felt like until your little discussion evolved into something completely different. By all means, if my or anyone else's posts don't meet your standards, just skip the hell over them. It's not that fucking hard. Don't be such a douchebag.

well bud you sorta replied about what we were talkina bout an d i do even believe you made a comment about one of us as well,or at least it sounded like you were implying certain perticular things about some of us,and so i replied back to your post,as simple as that,you really should settle dwn by the way,your the only one whos not calm here....

ya uhm,,, ou cam eoff as a huge wiccan there lol,,,,,well at least you didnt marvel about palm reading,,haha

and hey if you have fun believin your lil dolls are enjoyin the wild life of the great outdoors then all the more power to ya bud


i geuss imaginary friends are friends none the less

lawl


OK.. my mind stands corrected. You sir, are acting like a cunt in this situation.

What do I get from going out of my way to be completely un-judgmental about you two bickering nitpickers?

Why, an incorrect, mocking judgment cast upon me.

I am totally not a wiccan Generally wiccans piss me off more than just about everyone else. You missed my point and took an example like a hard dick in the presumptuous ass.
To me nature lives as much as people do.

Do you have no sense of ritual as an athiest? No sense of symbolism or fun- innocence without being preoccupied about what other people think?

My religion doesn't have a name, book, or organization.

So do whatever you want. Why do I bother expressing my opinion on TOTSE?

im sorry i will admit iw as bien abit of a ass,but u have to admit it was a lil humorous,,--but well like i said sorry it offended u so much--- i didnt know u were makina metaphor with nature sorta,or were u not tryin too??


anyways what exactly are u then

but that was crude of me!lol im suprised you came down on obbe more than u did me,who u didnt mentioned,i was for sure yalld b ein cahoots together,what with such similarities,i at first glance thought you to be an agnostic but very soon realized otherwise


:mad:
BIG MISTAKE: I read the last half of your post.

WHAT THE FUCK makes you think I was "coming down" on both of you?

I was getting fed up of your bitching is all. I think I made it clear that I respect people.

You on the other hand? NO NOT RLY, from what it seems.
Get some maturity, the try EXPRESSING an opinion instead of being caustic, spicy diarrhea all over my gentle opinions.

Yeah I get ticks on my balls. Yeah poison iIvy gives me a rash, yeah bees don't like it when I stand on their ground-nest-THAT's fucking life, s'all good.


:mad:

Every time I fucking mosey in here...... Every, fucking, time.... Arg.
Relaxation time. :o

HAHA,,omg chill,,,did u not see wher ei said sorry above????

and its all in fun man,dont take things to personal,,man if i took half the shit personal what people say to me on here id be a wreck,,would it help if i said sorry again

sorry

SEE,i can by empahtatic to your sensitivity on the matter

and you never did answer my tired question of what you are,or well what you lean torwards

Wow, this is acually quite pointless, back to BI.

yes i know....its kinda way out in the water of accomplising anything now...i will admit tho,partly my fault with some of em
*frowns in a blossoming gloom*

I'd ask you 2 for a summary, but then you'd start quoting each other and it would only get worse.

...lol

Obb, I think that you are wrong to think that people have to be theists to experience this.

You're right, I shouldn't have said theists. But I do think faith is required, and faith is usually absent in atheism.

Plenty of far out beleifs can be upheld fostering a sublime serenity and feeling of "being in one's place" and at harmony with life and altruistic love of fellow man.

I believe that could be called faith.

two bickering nitpickers?

:(

Goddammit, I don't care what his beliefs are...I just don't want him thinking nearly the complete opposite of what I've been writing. Which is, for the most part, how he has been taking what I've written.

I believe that could be called faith.

I believe it's philosophy, like Confuscianism, being in one's place and in harmony with society.

I believe it's philosophy, like Confuscianism, being in one's place and in harmony with society.

Sure. But are we then not still in a realm absent of evidence?

And do all philosophies teach the same lessons about life? Hell no. At least not from one persons perspective.

If you choose a philosophy because it makes sense to you as a way for living your life, and then gain beliefs about reality based on the philosophy, are those beliefs founded in evidence?

Sure. But are we then not still in a realm absent of evidence?

And do all philosophies teach the same lessons about life? Hell no. At least not from one persons perspective.

If you choose a philosophy because it makes sense to you as a way for living your life, and then gain beliefs about reality based on the philosophy, are those beliefs founded in evidence?

Regardless, philosophies do not need to be proven and do not require evidence, since they are mere subjective opinions, as opposed to things like religion, aliens, and cosmology, which can be proven/disproven through empirical observations.

Obvious fact.

No, but those beliefs are founded in rational deduction and intense periods of soul searching, which create a subjective truth for a person. They're not founded on evidence, but neither are they contrary to evidence because philosophies cannot be disproven, or even made less likely because they are subjective opinions. For example, prove socialism. Disprove socialism?

No, but those beliefs are founded in rational deduction and intense periods of soul searching, which create a subjective truth for a person.

Which is exactly what I think everyone should be doing.

Most theists belonging to organized religions will not find the truth because their just being led around blindly and not thinking about the material...and when they do, the material has most likely been changed according to someone in power hundreds or thousands of years ago.

I don't think most atheists will ever find the truth either, because they are either content in not knowing, or get so hung up about evidence that they will never believe the truth if they ever stumble upon it.

I believe that atheists can find ultimate truth, and still choose to accept it as something other then God...I believe atheists can believe in things not based upon evidence. The definition of atheism only refers to God. But in my own opinion, I think that its very unlikely, and I think it would be hard to interpret ultimate truth besides anything other then the true meaning of God.

Just as I find it unlikely that any theists belonging to organized religion will understand ultimate truth, because of their preconceived notions of it.

Regardless of what you call it, I do not think ultimate truth can be discovered based upon any evidence, which is why I think that most atheists will not find it, which was my main point in this thread. Faith does not have to directly relate to religion, and in my current opinion is the only way to understand ultimate truth.

I don't think most atheists will ever find the truth either, because they are either content in not knowing, or get so hung up about evidence that they will never believe the truth if they ever stumble upon it.
Dogma is bad for everybody. I do think I'm right, but I do not tell theists that "You can find the ultimate truth", because no matter how much I use rational arguments, logic, and whatever, there's still a degree of uncertainty.

I tend to refrain from using the term "absolute truth", because there really is no such thing. I think I'm justified in my beliefs as an atheist, but I still don't believe that the absolute truth is that there is no god. You are equally justified in claiming your gnostic beliefs, but I suggest you keep that to yourself because not everyone is capabale of finding such a deity (which is what you pointed out), and not only that, but there are many, who after going through the same process (deduction, soul searching, rationality, meditation, etc) have arrived at different conclusions (I being one of them).

If after such a period of deep thought one achieves a logical conclusion, then that is the subjective truth for that person, and while there may not be any objective truth in the realm of universal philosophy, we can always get closer to a subjective truth that works for us and coincides with our ideas. What I'm trying to say is that while the majority of mainline theists believe blindly, there are theists that have gone through a period of religious tumult and deep thought similar to that of yours or mine, and have arrived at different conclusions. You may think there is a Taoist god (sorry if I mislabel your beliefs, but that sounds about right judging from your other posts), but to somebody else, there is just as much reason (perhaps even more) to believe in a "traditional" deity, one that created the universe, maintains a heaven, and answers prayers.

Gnostics are a middle line between theists and atheists, they're fully justified in their beliefs, but still maintain the arrogance and the holier-than-thou mentality of traditional theists, which is why I had to respond to that.

...still maintain the arrogance and the holier-than-thou mentality of traditional theists, which is why I had to respond to that.

I'm sorry if I come off like that. It is not my intention.

I (obviously) think there is ultimate truth to how reality works, but thats theres many ways to interpret that truth.

Edit-Oh, and I'm not sure if you labeled my beliefs correctly or not. I don't know much about taoism or gnosticism. My beliefs are my own, and if they happen to correlate with an existing system, that is merely chance.

Okay, serious answer. Christianity is a religion of fear and denial, and they hate atheists because they fear you might be right.

Atheism is a religion of fear and denial, and they hate Christians because they fear they might be right.

My apologies for bringing up what was on the front page, but I will try to address as much as possible. Now this statement is simply not proper or fair to any party. Making blanket statement takes away a lot of the validity of an argument. But not even most Christians are in fear and denial. Not unless you are willing to put that label on many other groups that are stereotyped. I would like to discuss truth. I will claim that I am a Christian because that is what I am. I am not ashamed of that title and I am not living in fear or denial. The only reason I hesitate to make that statement is because of the discrimination against Christians here. Now, I have nothing against athiests, but I would like all men to come to the truth. Again I may be proven wrong, so present evidence and we will discuss it properly. But again, the only reason I would ever say anything is because I care for all men including you and the other athiests on this forum. Now conversion is not my job and it is not what I am trying to do. I simply would like people to open their minds a bit. My mind is wide open. I do have presuppositions and I will state them as they come up so that everything can be dealt with in fairness. But I would not say that many of my brothers and sisters in Christ are that hateful towards athiests and if they are they should not be. Therefore love is the main reason that any Christian would address an athiests as to his beliefs and them being incorrect. Thank you for all responses. Let's deal fairly with one another.

I have no idea what atheism is about, so out of ignorance and fear I'm going to make a self-centered statement that is completely false in all reality. I have no idea what I'm talking about since I have no experience of atheism.
fixed.


^^^ If you are new to mgcbtsooyg, please read at least 10 threads before commenting.

Atheists don't hate Christians because they think they might be right, we hate Christians because they are so obstinate and arrogant, in all reality, we hate Christians who believe blindly the same amount that we believe Muslims, Hindus, Jews, and Scientologists who believe blindly.

I would like to ask you not to use the word truth on this forum because there are few atheists that are so arrogant that they need to use it, in all honesty, you're not sure that there is a God, just like I'm not sure there isn't... we both think we're right, but in reality nobody knows the truth, so don't spew that shit on my totse.

fixed.


^^^ If you are new to mgcbtsooyg, please read at least 10 threads before commenting.

Atheists don't hate Christians because they think they might be right, we hate Christians because they are so obstinate and arrogant, in all reality, we hate Christians who believe blindly the same amount that we believe Muslims, Hindus, Jews, and Scientologists who believe blindly.

I would like to ask you not to use the word truth on this forum because there are few atheists that are so arrogant that they need to use it, in all honesty, you're not sure that there is a God, just like I'm not sure there isn't... we both think we're right, but in reality nobody knows the truth, so don't spew that shit on my totse.

Please, keep these arguments civil and give me evidences of your own. I would also like it if you would not distort my quotes. In what way have a come off as arrogant? I am not trying to put down anyone here. I am sorry if I have offended you in some way, that was not my intent. The reason I am here is to reason with those that have different views than my own. Not to lord my reason over them, but so that they might offer the reason for their beliefs and I might consider them and reply. I do not believe blindly just as you do not believe blindly, therefore there must be a ground on which we both meet. lol I am sure there is a God, but that faith was given to me, though reason is and must be a part of this faith, for the Lord does not ask for blindness as a prerequisite to faith. There are certain truths that are absolute and that we both believe, so I do not think truth is the wrong word to use. I also believe that truth must be sought and not pushed away as unattainable.

I think some are annoying because they seem compelled to tell us how oppressed they are and how stupid everyone else is.

I don't care about their beliefs, or lack thereof. Don't push yours on me, and I won't push mine on you.

I'm a Christian and I've been going to church since I was 4. I have no problems with atheists in fact my best friend is one. I think us hating atheists is just a sad stereotype. It may be true but don't speak of us as if we were one person. We're all individuals with our own views.

Originally, I hated Atheism because, of YouTube and the disgraceful "Blaspheme Challenge" every time I commented, Id get some atheist saying "Your Ignorant" or "Fuck You, you jesus worshiper..." All the propaganda and poorly research information thats all it is though on YouTube. I'm still not fond of atheism since it makes things sound to final, I always got the impression with atheism that is basically "No God Thats It... Discussion over..."

Than as I became more religious I just hated them, argued with them and debated with them. I was at that time religiously exclusive thinking Christianity was the sole way to God.

Than I became inclusive and decided Jesus overs only so much wisdom, Buddha, Mohammad, The Gnostic's are being dismissed as heretical yet they have valid points... So my views got softer on atheism, I thought to myself that atheism basically represents Logic and Critical Thinking, it cant be sinful to be smart so I soften my view on it.

Now, to me everyone is just in one boat were all gnostic at heart and some if not most of us just don't realize it. I'm still not fond of atheism as I think it has people just looking outside of themselves for everything in there lives to me the atheist motto still is "What is in front of you is all there is..." I just don't agree with it even after the debates and me trying to find God and everything. Don't worry though I have grown to have grudges against the orthodox form of Christianity as well.

For those who don't know what the Blaspheme Challenge is... Its about a bunch of atheist saying that Jesus wouldn't forgive you if you blaspheme the holy spirit because, it is written in the bible. So you get like so many hits on the video and video replies of people thinking there the shit and saying "I Blaspheme the holy spirit!"

When I contemplated and research over what that means I came to the conclusion that Blaspheming the holy spirit means to Commit Suicide. In the Christian tradition the Holy Spirit is your connection to God throughout your life if you end your life pre-maturely than the communication is severed which blasphemes the holy spirit. However, atheist are becoming just as closed-minded and literal as there Christian counterparts that they still read the bible literally which hence why fundamentalism is bad and why this "Blaspheme Challenge" is disgraceful!

ITT: We bump old-ass threads

I am not an attention whore. I seriously want to see what reasons mainly Christians have and make our lives hard. :mad:

I'm a Christian. I don't have anything against atheists. I don't think I do anything to make your life hard, either.

I don't preach to non-believers. I don't go around telling you you're going to burn. I don't think I've ever told a person, even as an impressionable child, that they were going to hell.

I do two things as a Christian: I trust in God, and if someone asks me why I trust something I can't see, smell, taste, hear, or touch to take care of everything in the universe, I'll tell them.

I'm a Christian. I don't have anything against atheists. I don't think I do anything to make your life hard, either.

I don't preach to non-believers. I don't go around telling you you're going to burn. I don't think I've ever told a person, even as an impressionable child, that they were going to hell.

I do two things as a Christian: I trust in God, and if someone asks me why I trust something I can't see, smell, taste, hear, or touch to take care of everything in the universe, I'll tell them.

I thought believing in Jesus was part of being a Christian.

I thought believing in Jesus was part of being a Christian.

It is. Faith, intellect, strength, hope...these are not things I do, they are traits that can be expressed in my actions (whether internal in the form of thoughts and feelings, or external in the form of works).

Hence why my two jobs are to trust God to do His work, and to share everything I can with those who want it. These two actions are an expression of my faith in this: "These are the two greatest commandments: Love the Lord with all your heart. Love your neighbor as your self."

Of course, trusting God is a large charge. Thankfully, my part in this action is actually INACTION: by not meddling in the affairs of others, the wicked find their own folly, and the saved find greater faith. These are the works of God, not me. Now, on the second action, when someone asks me about something, I have the chance to let God work through me so long as I am honest and thorough with my answer.

This is the truth expressed in such: "If a man can control his tongue, he IS a perfect man." I'm not perfect though, so occasionally I do meddle, and occasionally I withhold some of the truth...and sometimes I even outright lie. Invariably, I will withhold honesty when I put one of my selfish desires ahead of God.

For example, if I forgot to do something I agreed to do, and I desire being seen as reliable more than I desire being with God, I WILL lie about it. Luckily, I'm getting much better at putting my walk with God ahead of my selfish desires.

Hope this provided some clarity as to my faith. :)

It is. Faith, intellect, strength, hope...these are not things I do, they are traits that can be expressed in my actions (whether internal in the form of thoughts and feelings, or external in the form of works).

Hence why my two jobs are to trust God to do His work, and to share everything I can with those who want it. These two actions are an expression of my faith in this: "These are the two greatest commandments: Love the Lord with all your heart. Love your neighbor as your self."

Of course, trusting God is a large charge. Thankfully, my part in this action is actually INACTION: by not meddling in the affairs of others, the wicked find their own folly, and the saved find greater faith. These are the works of God, not me. Now, on the second action, when someone asks me about something, I have the chance to let God work through me so long as I am honest and thorough with my answer.

This is the truth expressed in such: "If a man can control his tongue, he IS a perfect man." I'm not perfect though, so occasionally I do meddle, and occasionally I withhold some of the truth...and sometimes I even outright lie. Invariably, I will withhold honesty when I put one of my selfish desires ahead of God.

For example, if I forgot to do something I agreed to do, and I desire being seen as reliable more than I desire being with God, I WILL lie about it. Luckily, I'm getting much better at putting my walk with God ahead of my selfish desires.

Hope this provided some clarity as to my faith. :)

You're going to hell. Jesus made it very clear that a christian should have no priority before him.

You're going to hell. Jesus made it very clear that a christian should have no priority before him.

Christ's teachings are much deeper than religion.

Sorry 4 starting up this old thread I didn't even look at the date on this one. But Jesus goes beyond just religious doctrine its life.

Jesus believes the dead are those who look to the world for happiness and success and they're joys. The living are those who look to themselves (not Ego) and are strong in their R/ship to God. This is a superficial statement there is more to this but, I will write it more out if someone wants me too.

Sorry 4 starting up this old thread I didn't even look at the date on this one. But Jesus goes beyond just religious doctrine its life.

Jesus believes the dead are those who look to the world for happiness and success and they're joys. The living are those who look to themselves (not Ego) and are strong in their R/ship to God. This is a superficial statement there is more to this but, I will write it more out if someone wants me too.

I do.....

I am not an attention whore. I seriously want to see what reasons mainly Christians have and make our lives hard. :mad:

We're just giving you a -- very mild -- taste of what it will be like when God casts you into hell for all eternity because you rejected his son. :p If you can't handle it now, how do expect to survive in the lake of fire?

We're just giving you a -- very mild -- taste of what it will be like when God casts you into hell for all eternity because you rejected his son. :p If you can't handle it now, how do expect to survive in the lake of fire?

This pretty much sums up the justification in the Christian mind, for the bullshit they allow to be railroaded over them and others by their masters.

If you believe stopping gay marraige, censoring art and entertainment, and passing laws to keep YOUR sabbath holy for EVERYONE is part of God's plan, then you are completely unaware that you are a tool and nothing more. Not God's tool, mind you, but a mortal man screaming from a pulpit's tool. A tool for social control. Nothing more. Never forget it.

We're just giving you a -- very mild -- taste of what it will be like when God casts you into hell for all eternity because you rejected his son. :p If you can't handle it now, how do expect to survive in the lake of fire?

I pity you, christian. I know exactly what will happen when I die, a view correlated by every piece of common sense and scientific research. You put your faith into a mental disease that will rob you of the best times of your life, and twist you into an implement of war.

Do you actually not see that? Do you think that its not true, or that the people you're listening to couldn't possibly be misleading you?

Plz don't feed the trolls.

Plz don't feed the trolls.

But they are always so hungry :)

You're going to hell. Jesus made it very clear that a christian should have no priority before him.

Prometheum, your life truly is sad. Is the attempt to disrupt another's belief so alluring that you'd spend your time interfering with the formation of healthy relations just so you can feel better about your twisted heart?

You wouldn't be so pathetically lonely and irritable if you let the world be at peace with you, but you war on. The battle's over, Prometheum. God won and will always win. When you go against Love, you find only misery.

Tell me, Brother, how long did the pleasure of attacking my faith last? A few moments? Maybe an hour at best? How long did it take you to return to the state of feeling cornered, lonely, and used by the world?

I said it once I will say it again: Choosing a belief is a personal choice and decision. Challenging what you belief is important to arrive to truth however, to have others conform to your belief is wrong. Its YOUR personal responsibility to resist what you call evil. NOT try and wipe evil out, evil is part of human nature it will spring up again in a different form.

Theres a difference between Security and Freedom. Benjamin Franklin once said: Those who give up a little bit a freedom for security will gain neither and lose both! With that said most religious people who put there views on a more liberal society are trying to hold on to there security and are giving up there freedoms. They will be constricted by everything and attempt to constrict you as well until they grow up and realize and THINK about what there doing.

Most people are wake-walking in life and sleep walking in there dreams either way there not going to get much out of it.

Tell me, Brother, how long did the pleasure of attacking my faith last? A few moments? Maybe an hour at best? How long did it take you to return to the state of feeling cornered, lonely, and used by the world?

http://jcnot4me.com/images/pot_calls_kettle_black.bmp

Ironic. (http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?p=9542252)

Prometheum, your life truly is sad. Is the attempt to disrupt another's belief so alluring that you'd spend your time interfering with the formation of healthy relations just so you can feel better about your twisted heart?

You wouldn't be so pathetically lonely and irritable if you let the world be at peace with you, but you war on. The battle's over, Prometheum. God won and will always win. When you go against Love, you find only misery.

Tell me, Brother, how long did the pleasure of attacking my faith last? A few moments? Maybe an hour at best? How long did it take you to return to the state of feeling cornered, lonely, and used by the world?

So I should go along in lock-step conformity with the rest of the sheep? Seems someone's pissed that they're going to hell.

And yup, god is love.

Observe what I command you this day. Behold, I am driving out from before you the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite. Take heed to yourself, lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land where you are going, lest it be a snare in your midst. But you shall destroy their altars, break their sacred pillars, and cut down their wooden images (For you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.)

God is Love; Love knows no jealousy... ;)

A definitive answer is that These two Gods (the jealous God is of course the lesser god) have been joined when they should have been separated.