...if there is a God or not? I'm not talking about being agnostic (though I am).

The common view of God, if someone thinks he/she/it exists, is that it is everything in the universe, in and of everything. Which would mean that I am of God as well.

But why does it even matter then? It seems it's the same as if it didn't exist. Well, it's different, but even if I knew for certain it was one or the other, would I act differently? I don't see why.

However, I would act differently if I knew God was a seperate entity. Which is why I say this.

But the church also apparently says God can make decisions. So...does that mean he's everything in the universe...and more?

Thoughts? Help a confused soul? Flame a confused soul?

Flame a confused soul?

Send you to hell? Sorry I don't have that power, YET. Maybe next week.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=928518742089256264

Interesting but long, 2 hours.

Also weird:

http://reluctant-messenger.com/reincarnation-proof.htm

DT

Well, some people like having a pre-determined set - made by some dude 2000 yrs ago - of rules to live by. God forbid if they decided to think a set up by themselves.

And, knowing that you'll rise to a fluffy cheery, angel filled paradise, heaven, comforts some believers.

Here's a great quote.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.

-- Carl Sagan

think about how the first religions started and then think how it evolved.it started as a way to explain things.now it's just mind control.it's a corruption of the free thinking and most people believe in god because they were taught to.this sickens me, beacuse kids are brainwashed at sunday school or something like that before they even had time to think properly about these kind of complex concepts.it's like they can't reach the age at which they can consciously choose between believing or not without being brainwashed.

To put it simply, religion is for people who are too stupid to devise their own system of morality based on observation and logic. Religion was created by those who have this ability, and it is maintained and developed as society changes. 50 years ago Christians were bigots and now many of them accept gays and people of colour. The church just simply changes their minds to what is needed. Some of us our smart enough to come up with our own morality, and usually the questioning of such a system is a sign you likely do, cause you can't see it's flaws unless you see a more logical ideal.

Most people who are above average usually still believe in a higher power or system of function, but not the system of rules that come with most religion.

If it helps, everything that exists is nothing more than a energy created illusion. The only question is whether there is a organization behind it's function, or if it's function is natural to the existence of the energy itself. To me, there is nothing organizing energy into an outcome, it's simply limited logically and forms everything within those limitations. Our reality is nothing more than a limitation of those possibilities. Our existence if infinite within this energy, and therefore death is a lie. We are all intrinsically important to the grand existence of everything. Even a God may be a creation of energy, but may only exist in the conscious mind. In your mind god may be real, but isn't likely the truth.

It doesn't matter at all. You can live quite easily and happily without caring in the slightest whether there is a god or not. Some people think it's important though.

My God.


Entheogenic

think about how the first religions started and then think how it evolved.it started as a way to explain things.now it's just mind control.it's a corruption of the free thinking and most people believe in god because they were taught to.this sickens me, beacuse kids are brainwashed at sunday school or something like that before they even had time to think properly about these kind of complex concepts.it's like they can't reach the age at which they can consciously choose between believing or not without being brainwashed.

Think about how the first science started and then how it evolved. It started as a way to explain things. Now it's just mind control. It's a corruption of free thinking and most people believe in science because they were taught to. This sickens me, because kids are brainwashed at public school or somethign like that before they even have time to think properly about these kinds of complex concepts. It's like they can't reach the age at which they can consciously choose between believing or not without being brainwashed.

Granted this is an exageration, but it displays that your argument is very weak. The only reason that I use science it that it has become a belief system rather than science. From evolution to creation everyone is holding on to some evidence and denying other evidence. If God is a seperate entity ... then it doesn't matter if we believe or not. If God is everything ... it really doesn't matter anyway. If God is not real ... prove it. Search for the truth, because if there is a God then he must be truth or at least found in truth. The only thing that I ask of any of you and apply rigorously to myself is that you acknowledge your presuppositions, see if they are good ones or not, and follow the facts whereever they lead and not to where you would like them to go. To answer the initial question, the only reason you should care is if there is a seperate God, one that exists objectively ... without our beliefs. The next step would be finding out what he has said, which would mean measure the truths of the Holy books that have been passed down in time. Truth is freedom, though it may hurt to gain such freedom.

I do not think that a belief in God is necessary for anything.

Although, I do think it greatly explains many things, depending on what the person means by God. In most cases, not an understanding taught by most (if any) religions. I think that gaining an understanding of reality is at least useful, if not an important step towards reaching enlightenment.

But thats not a goal in everyones life.

...if there is a God or not? I'm not talking about being agnostic (though I am).

?


If there is no 'god', then why does it matter if you live or die?

It matters because Jesus Christ died on a cross for your sins.

Think about how the first science started and then how it evolved. It started as a way to explain things. Now it's just mind control. It's a corruption of free thinking and most people believe in science because they were taught to. This sickens me, because kids are brainwashed at public school or somethign like that before they even have time to think properly about these kinds of complex concepts. It's like they can't reach the age at which they can consciously choose between believing or not without being brainwashed.

Too bad that doesn't even make sense, you might have an argument

Well? Many such questions seem like the vain posturing of armchair philosophers when times are good. There are no atheists in the foxhole, though.

Can you imagine yourself in combat, today or in WW1? How about when the Flu Pandemic of 1918-19 was taking the young & strong? Nowdays everthing seems none-to-hard to fix or cure.

Do you think your back will ever be to the wall? Will you stay staunch in your disbelief or will you freak & pray to "???" :eek:

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't bother knowing most of the people who already died probably prayed. Fat load of good that did

For me, it doesn't matter if there's a god. It doesn't matter if there's an afterlife. What matters is leaving something behind when you die--and you will die eventually.

-Ethan

For me, it doesn't matter if there's a god. It doesn't matter if there's an afterlife. What matters is leaving something behind when you die--and you will die eventually.

-Ethan

As a holy man in India said when asked about young Western children's memories of previous lives: (speaking other languages, knowing about specific geography & individuals in other countries etc) he said: "Yes, yes we have all that sort of thing here. It makes no difference: people still steal, rape & murder."

Afterlives are for immature goofers. It's what you do while you're here & now that matters. No matter what pie-in-the-sky stuff may or may not be ahead of youse.

If there is no 'god', then why does it matter if you live or die?

Well i dont believe in god and i have no desire to die anytime soon.

If there is a 'god' why does it matter. Theres no end, and these mesly 60 years or so you spend on this planet is nothing compared to eternity.

If there is a God, he's not Chrisitan... He's not Muslim... He's not even Zoroastrian... If there is a God... I am that God.

I am the God of my own world, and no matter what happens outside, my own world is controlled by the God that is myself.

If there is a God, he's not Chrisitan... He's not Muslim... He's not even Zoroastrian... If there is a God... I am that God.

I am the God of my own world, and no matter what happens outside, my own world is controlled by the God that is myself.

You're a fool.

You're a fool.

Well I'm convinced... where do I sign up?

Pilsu,
It is simple, anything can corrupt a persons thoughts, whether it be religion, science, philosophy or many other things. The point is that the argument against religion consisting of mind control can belong to science as well, so there is no point in bringing it up because it can go both ways and it would just start a vicious cycle. But if we strive to search for the truth, following strictly the evidence and acknowledging our presuppositions then hopefully a valid point can be reached.

nshanin,
Selfishness is not something that should be flaunted. No matter what circle you belong to the mental stages of development still usually apply. Therefore being applied to such mental stages your statement would be contained in the preoperational realm. Now, I am not trying to insult you, but I do think that your arguments thus far have been lacking in logic, especially if that statement is your main premise, though i do not truly know. If you are just joking then I retract this statement, if not then I would like to simply take a logical approach and see what your arguments really are.

Rolloffle,
If you are a Christian than I would ask you to please refrain from calling people fools. If you do not recall Mathew 5:22 "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." I simply implore you to be very careful with your words here my brother in Christ, because they will be twisted and turned against you. Many people in these forums are not especially friendly if you carry the title of Christian. If you do not then I am sorry for my mistake.

moonmeister,
If you are so set on the here and now, what about all of the still births, terminal diseases and other things of the sort. Sure the philosophy of carpe deum might work just great for you, but what of those who can not walk, or are going to die in a hospital bed. Can you off them something as well? Although I do enjoy the point you made of not being in very pressing situations. That is very true, most people simply have the good life and think there is no need of a God.

Ethaneal,
The above mentioned goes for you as well. What if you have no way to leave a legacy?

God is not separate--we are All One, and each of us domesticated primates is an individuation of the divine.

But in a sense, it doesn't matter, since God loves you unconditionally, and after you "die," you will either merge with Spirit (or "go to Heaven" as the less evolved say) or reincarnate--your choice.

God is not separate--we are All One, and each of us domesticated primates is an individuation of the divine.

But in a sense, it doesn't matter, since God loves you unconditionally, and after you "die," you will either merge with Spirit (or "go to Heaven" as the less evolved say) or reincarnate--your choice.

I would like an argument for that stance please. Unconditional love does not matter if it is rejected.

nshanin,
Selfishness is not something that should be flaunted. No matter what circle you belong to the mental stages of development still usually apply. Therefore being applied to such mental stages your statement would be contained in the preoperational realm. Now, I am not trying to insult you, but I do think that your arguments thus far have been lacking in logic, especially if that statement is your main premise, though i do not truly know. If you are just joking then I retract this statement, if not then I would like to simply take a logical approach and see what your arguments really are.


I am not joking, I am the God of my world, I decide what goes on in my personal realm, my mind, so to speak, I am also in charge of my destiny, to an extent that is so much more than others, that I could also be considered God of my own destiny... think about it.

retarded shit

Science is not a belief system. It is merely a tool for interpreting the universe through empirical observation.

Oh, and the justification for teaching it to people is that it... well, how should I say this... it works?

Just, you know, considering that every since advance in high technology in the past century has been down to science, and COINCIDENTALLY, the past century has had the greatest rate of technological progress.

Science is not a belief system. It is merely a tool for interpreting the universe through empirical observation.

Oh, and the justification for teaching it to people is that it... well, how should I say this... it works?

Just, you know, considering that every since advance in high technology in the past century has been down to science, and COINCIDENTALLY, the past century has had the greatest rate of technological progress.

http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/d31/9c5/d319c5bd-f401-491a-a9c4-bdfd0a2f22cd

^^^ Damn straight

If there is a God, he's not Chrisitan... He's not Muslim... He's not even Zoroastrian... If there is a God... I am that God.

I am the God of my own world, and no matter what happens outside, my own world is controlled by the God that is myself.

Your ego does not equal God. Thats entirely selfish.

Your ego does not equal God. Thats entirely selfish.

It's not my ego, it's self control, and the wonders of my mind... you'd know that if you understood metaphor.

It doesn't matter.

It's not my ego, it's self control, and the wonders of my mind... you'd know that if you understood metaphor.

lol

oh ok. The wonders of your mind.

First off I would assert that you do not have half the self discipline, talent, or breadth of understanding to even contemplate, much less fulfill, abnormal mental, physical, or spiritual growth and ascension.

Youre not a monk, not a martial artist, not a yogi, not an ascetic. Each of which recognize the truth of a higher being/consciousness/existence beyond themselves besides the fact that each individual is a microcosm of that very universality. Yes, we are all a universe in and of ourselves. But existence has to do with the relation between us and the universe. Not us and ourselves purely since...well...the universe exists. Our bodies and souls are not the end all. They are the starting point for becoming one with all.

But you would know that if you understood your existence and how to word ideas properly.

lol

oh ok. The wonders of your mind.

First off I would assert that you do not have half the self discipline, talent, or breadth of understanding to even contemplate, much less fulfill, abnormal mental, physical, or spiritual growth and ascension.
Yes, because you know my spiritual, mental, and physical life :rolleyes:. My thoughts and development are mine alone, and I strive to perfect them; you have no authority nor the knowledge of my situation to tell me what I do or do not know about the various aspects of my life. My philosophies are mine alone; you don't have to accept them, but you cannot criticize them because they are subjective opinions, which are all correct in the mind of the observer.

Youre not a monk, not a martial artist, not a yogi, not an ascetic. Each of which recognize the truth of a higher being/consciousness/existence beyond themselves besides the fact that each individual is a microcosm of that very universality.
These people devote themselves to spiritual life, but their views are theirs alone, and there are people devoted to spirituality who share my view, but again, that isn't proof of anything.

Einstein was a socialist, does that prove socialism?
The majority of educated people are atheists (or a euphemism of it), does that prove atheism?
Monks, yogis and gurus believe in a higher power and a spirit, does that prove spirits?

Yes, we are all a universe in and of ourselves. But existence has to do with the relation between us and the universe. Not us and ourselves purely since...well...the universe exists. Our bodies and souls are not the end all. They are the starting point for becoming one with all.
Physical existence has to do with the universe around us, spiritual and mental existence have to do with your inner self, your own personal universe.

Prove that the universe exists.
But you would know that if you understood your existence and how to word ideas properly.

Existence is subjective, I don't criticize your view on existence because it is correct in your eyes, just like mine is correct in my eyes, and there isn't any fact to support any theory of existence as of yet (and if there was, nihilism would probably be the only one supported by empiricism), but again, this is just speculation.

I could write paragraph upon paragraph about my views on existence, or I could summarize it in a 1 sentence analogy. Perhaps one day I'll write a textfile on it, but a single phrase gives more meaning and is more likely to strike a chord in the reader's heart and activate some neural connections.

lol

oh ok. The wonders of your mind.

First off I would assert that you do not have half the self discipline, talent, or breadth of understanding to even contemplate, much less fulfill, abnormal mental, physical, or spiritual growth and ascension.

Youre not a monk, not a martial artist, not a yogi, not an ascetic. Each of which recognize the truth of a higher being/consciousness/existence beyond themselves besides the fact that each individual is a microcosm of that very universality. Yes, we are all a universe in and of ourselves. But existence has to do with the relation between us and the universe. Not us and ourselves purely since...well...the universe exists. Our bodies and souls are not the end all. They are the starting point for becoming one with all.

But you would know that if you understood your existence and how to word ideas properly.


Thats not true. Utopia is created in the mind by the individual. It can be completly selfish and have nothing to do with others. If you were psychotic and loved to hurt people more then anything would your spiritual development at all involve unity with other people?