i mean, people adress the masses, and say that he died to save "YOU", but if he died for me, and he adresses the masses, doesent that mean he died for everone? everyone sais that he died for me alone, and yet other people still are affected........

im confused:(:mad:

i mean, people adress the masses, and say that he died to save "YOU", but if he died for me, and he adresses the masses, doesent that mean he died for everone? everyone sais that he died for me alone, and yet other people still are affected........

im confused:(:mad:

If I rescued 10 people from a sinking ship, and you were one of them, and I say "I rescued you, didn't I?"

Technically, I did rescue you but I still rescued all the other 9 people on the ship.

If I rescued 10 people from a sinking ship, and you were one of them, and I say "I rescued you, didn't I?"

Technically, I did rescue you but I still rescued all the other 9 people on the ship.
but they tell me he died for me and me alone, yet he adresses the masses...
:(

You are the masses, the masses are you.

God is the state, the state is God ... hahaha sorry that reminded me of that quote and a little Trotsky never hurt anyone. Well my friend, if I am correct in my studies than it is true that each person is individually valued by God. Psalm 139:13, "For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mothers womb." If it is true that the Lord knows each of us so intimately than when it is said that he died for YOU than it is true that for you alone he has withheld the judgement day so that YOU may enter the kingdom of heaven. The gospel message is a message given to masses and recieved by individuals, thus it can be said that he died for you alone, though alone is probably not the best word to be used, because he wishes to have the personal relationship with you as your Lord, Savior, Father, Son, Brother and the like. This is what I have found in my searches. Tell me if this is not adequate and I will ask others that know much more than myself and do the proper studying.

He died for everyone, including you.

Nicene Creed

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
Maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God,
Light from Light,
True God from True God,
begotten, not made, one in being with the Father;
through Him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation He came down from heaven,
by the power of the Holy Spirit He was born of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
He suffered, died and was buried.
On the third day He rose again in fulfillment of the scriptures;
He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and His kingdom will have no end.

God is the state, the state is God ... hahaha sorry that reminded me of that quote and a little Trotsky never hurt anyone. Well my friend, if I am correct in my studies than it is true that each person is individually valued by God. Psalm 139:13, "For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mothers womb." If it is true that the Lord knows each of us so intimately than when it is said that he died for YOU than it is true that for you alone he has withheld the judgement day so that YOU may enter the kingdom of heaven. The gospel message is a message given to masses and recieved by individuals, thus it can be said that he died for you alone, though alone is probably not the best word to be used, because he wishes to have the personal relationship with you as your Lord, Savior, Father, Son, Brother and the like. This is what I have found in my searches. Tell me if this is not adequate and I will ask others that know much more than myself and do the proper studying.
hmm.. that was helpful, actualy. thanks!
+rep4u

Jesus died like any other fucker, it wasn't for you, the masses, or your grandma.

Jesus died like any other fucker, it wasn't for you, the masses, or your grandma.

No. It was for him, his grandmother and the masses.

i mean, people adress the masses, and say that he died to save "YOU", but if he died for me, and he adresses the masses, doesent that mean he died for everone? everyone sais that he died for me alone, and yet other people still are affected........

im confused:(:mad:


You know this when you're born again, and Christ dwells in your heart. I've said this before and I will say this over and over and over and over again. When you're born again, and Jesus/God fills your heart, He fills you with Love, because God IS love. You see, God so LOVED the world that HE GAVE His son that WHOSOEVER believes will not perish BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.



If you were the only one that would CHOOSE to believe and accept this FREE GIFT of God, that CAN NOT BE EARNED, Jesus would have still went to that cross and this is why He did. He becomes YOUR PERSONAL Lord and Saviour.. LORD FIRST. Why? Because that's ONE MORE souls that isn't in hell, and ONE MORE soul that HE LOVES SO MUCH, that's united with Him.



God said that He isn't willing that ANY should perish but ALL should come to repentence. "Well, Shelly, if that's the case why doesn't He just save us all?" He's done all that He can do to give you this free gift. We know you have en enemy, Satan, and He doesn't want you to be united with God. If Satan's in control why doesn't he just cause us all to go to hell and perish? Why doesn't God cause us all to be in Heaven with Him and away from hell? It's SIMPLE. God gave us all free will. We have to choose what we're going to allow to influence and dictate our lives, rather it be the Word of God and His Law, by our obedience to His Spirit/Word, or Satan and his lies by the rebelling from the Word of God unto the way of this world's system. The Word says that Satan is the God of this world's system, and if you don't understand what that is, ask a question on it, and I'll clarify it WITH and BY the Word of God.



God said over and over to Israel, "I lay before you THIS DAY, a blessing AND a curse, CHOOSE therefore." Why? How can something be a blessing and a curse? The Law of God is a blessing if you walk in His will and obey His law, because SPIRITUAL LAW say if you do this, He will REWARD you because of your faith, or confidence in God and not on your own ability. A CURSE, if you REFUSE to obey His Law, and rebell against His law. WHY? Well, why would a parent discipline a child for playing in the road after being told not to? It seems to me when that child chooses to rebell against the parent (who should be instructing their child right and living the life) that, that child puts themself in a position to GET HURT BAD.



God LOVES YOU, and wants to SAVE YOU and be LORD OF YOUR LIFE, because His will is to BLESS YOU, because He LOVES YOU, and only by knowing God's love for you, and experiencing His Love for you will you understand His Love for the rest of the people that you've ever encountered. Good or bad. Love the sinner HATE THE SIN! The LAW condemns you to hell. Why? Because there isn't a single commandment you haven't broke and by the law you are sentenced to death.



But God who loved you, sent His son to die for you and take YOUR PLACE so you could take Christ's place and be in right standing with THE FATHER (or be made righteous). Realize, when Jesus died and went to hell, to pay for your sin, He was willing to GO THERE FOREVER, but HELL COULDN'T HOLD HIM. He was TOO HOLY, and innocent, but HIS BLOOD cries out to the FATHER for your salvation, and the FATHER HEARS the cry of His blood saying, "FATHER GIVE ME JUSTICE!! I PAID FOR THE PRICE FOR THEM, DO I NOT DESERVE WHAT I PAID FOR?" God's judgement requires justice, but HIS LOVE desires MERCY.


My flesh would love to continue to live a life for God, BUT IF it comes to my death to bring someone to Christ, if someone wants to kill me because of my Christian witness, and it ultimately leads to their salvation, the love of CHrist shead in my heart for HIS people, would lead me to do what He would want.

Jesus was 100% God and 100% man. He overcame the temptations of the flesh by the Spirit of God, (I don't care what the last temptation says, that guy's gonna face harsh judgement on that Great and terrible day, along with Dan Brown, I'd like to encourage you guys to pray for him.) If Jesus was in any way CARNAL or flesh dictated HE COULDN'T HAVE DIED FOR OUR SINS, and we would still be hell bound.

I want to make clear that I am by no means anybody, who I am can do nothing to save anyone, but who HE IS and what HE'S DONE can, does, and will. I'm human, and can be tempted, and in my flesh lies sin and fleshly desires, but my desires for God far exceed the desires of my flesh, and the Power of the Holy Spirit and the name of Jesus WHOLLY defeats all the power of the enemy over me, and God wants you to be free in so much that you're not BOUND by your FLESH, but FREE from it's power over you. (QUOTE, UNQUOTE "Christians" Need to get this revelation too.) QUOTE UNQUOTE for a reason.. If you have a problem with your temper, you get mad and start cussing and bringing people down, your flesh controls you. If you have a problem with fornication, you see a woman/man and want them in your bed, you have a problem with your flesh, and it controls you. You may be a christian and be struggling with this, you need to cast down vain imaginations and speak God's Word, meditate therein day and NIGHT, Joshua 1:8, until you're free. Christianity is not for those who give up easy. You have to be determined! YOu have to be willing to give God all you've got and TRUST HIS WORD AND HIM MORE THAN YOUR PROBLEMS AND EXPERIENCES AND YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING.

To be a disciple you must make Jesus LORD of your life, the same to be saved. You are no longer in CONTROL He is and no matter how foolish it may seem to your MIND you must obey Him no matter the cost. HE SAID COUNT THE COST, It will COST YOU EVERYTHING, and if you try to start this building without counting the cost and QUIT, or GIVE UP, people will MOCK YOU, and if you count the cost, and are willing to LOOSE your own selfish ambition and take up YOUR CROSS to follow Him, they'll persecute you, you may loose your family and you'll loose your friends, people will isolate you because of His name, but He won't. He said it's ENOUGH that you be LIKE HIM, but you can't be greater than Him. You can't be BEYOND persecution, and be His follower. No, if you're a follow of the Lord Jesus CHrist, you'll be PERSECUTED, are you willing? DO YOU HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO DENY YOURSELF AND FOLLOW HIM AND NOT GIVE UP? If not, you can't be His disciple.

-A Messenger

Actually, I don't think he died on the cross--there is some recent scriptural evidence on this(but you have to read the scripture in the original Greek--there was an important mistranslation).

He appeared to, for the same reason he made a point of riding into Jerusalem on a donkey--to fulfill an old prophecy and promote the political agenda of the Zealots, who were ghis greatest supporters.

Jesus died for someone's sins, but not mine.

If your listening to (tele)evangelist than the odds are there trying to sell you Christ. Its no different than marketing, making the story sound special and talk to the ego! If I was there I would say: "Christ Died for Our Sins!" not "Christ died for Your Sins; Your Sins Alone!" They use words and ways of persuasion to make you convert and in the process commit every logical fallacy there is. IMO, the (tele)evangelist misphrased (purposely or accidentally) the message.

It's quite simple, and makes perfect sense, like the rest of christianity, and modern religion. You see, the almighty perfect God, somehow made a mistake and created us imperfectly. For thousands of years he punished us for his mistakes by sending us to Hell to burn for eternity. Then one day for some reason, he decides to come to earth in the form of mortal man. Almighty god, then allowed mortal man to kill him so he could forgive you for his mistakes. See, it all makes perfect sense :)

I don't remember Jesus rescuing me :( I didn't even know the guy...

I must have a bad memory...

It's quite simple, and makes perfect sense, like the rest of christianity, and modern religion. You see, the almighty perfect God, somehow made a mistake and created us imperfectly. For thousands of years he punished us for his mistakes by sending us to Hell to burn for eternity.

Thats what Gnosticism suspects, just replace "Almighty perfect God" with ignorant and malevolent creator.

Then one day for some reason, he decides to come to earth in the form of mortal man. Almighty god, then allowed mortal man to kill him so he could forgive you for his mistakes. See, it all makes perfect sense :)

Dude, you were on fire with the gnostic view until you came to this, not your fault btw, mainstream Christianity's fault though. Christ comes from above this "god..."

i mean, people adress the masses, and say that he died to save "YOU", but if he died for me, and he adresses the masses, doesent that mean he died for everone? everyone sais that he died for me alone, and yet other people still are affected........

im confused:(:mad:

You can tell you haven't experienced God's love for you as an individual.. otherwise, you'd know the answer to your question.
When you have the love of God shed abroad in you heart, or God's love for people, and for you, you're willing to die for the sake of your death PERHAPS producing one believer by seeing your faith and willingness to cling to Christ even through physical death, and bodily harm. Tyndale, was taking a stand for Christ against religion when no one else would. The people were silenced by the law, but this man stood and boldly said, "EVERY DROP OF BLOOD THAT HITS THE GROUND WILL BE A SEED TO PRODUCE MORE BELIEVERS" They began to burn this man at the stake, and HE PRAISED GOD!! Angry, because the fire didn't kill him, they began to shoot arrows at him. He bleed to much it put the fire out that they had tried to burn him with.

That's what it's about. LOVE..for souls to be saved. LOVE.. for people to see and experience. That's why Christ came. As Charles H. Spurgeon once said, "So often people look at the cross and see God's love for them, but they don't see His hate for sin that divides Him from His people." Sin had a price that had to be paid, and you can't pay the price of sin. HE PAID IT FOR ALL, who'd believe. He said, "WHOSOEVER" (IF ANYONE WILL BELIEVE.) I remember Christ sayin, "IF ANY ONE IS THIRSTY LET HIM COME TO ME AND DRINK." ANY ONE. He would have died for the sake of ONE to follow after HIM. It was a path that had to be made clear for ANY ONE.. and THOSE that walk the path of faith in Him, SHALL BE SAVED!!

I've said this before and I'll say this again, and mean it, if my death, would bring you to know the Love of God for YOU, i'd die in His name, for HIS glory. Because it's an HONOUR to be able to be used to show the Love of Christ in demonstration.

HOWEVER, it's easy to die a physical death, and demonstrate that love, it's harder to die to yourself daily and demonstrate that on a daily. Our flesh has desires.. and it's instant gratification.. but faith has a desire, that must be attained through patience, and obedience, in fellowship with Christ.

If you had be the only one.. He said, "You're worth this." And if you decide to follow Him, you must live knowing, "It's gonna be worth it."

Actually, I don't think he died on the cross--there is some recent scriptural evidence on this(but you have to read the scripture in the original Greek--there was an important mistranslation).

He appeared to, for the same reason he made a point of riding into Jerusalem on a donkey--to fulfill an old prophecy and promote the political agenda of the Zealots, who were ghis greatest supporters.

Um.. It doesn't matter what you THINK. You want something ORIGINAL, read the HEBREW TEXTS, and know that over and over through the ages, prophet after prophet spoke the RHEMA Words of God, and said what the Messiah must suffer and what He'd accomplish and do, even how the people would react in His time. You need to go back to the Tanakh. History documents this, and scripture before History.

If your listening to (tele)evangelist than the odds are there trying to sell you Christ. Its no different than marketing, making the story sound special and talk to the ego! If I was there I would say: "Christ Died for Our Sins!" not "Christ died for Your Sins; Your Sins Alone!" They use words and ways of persuasion to make you convert and in the process commit every logical fallacy there is. IMO, the (tele)evangelist misphrased (purposely or accidentally) the message.


You know, I stopped watching preachers on TV. Most of them have lost the heart intent behind to reason TBN went on TV. I see what you're saying, and it's sad how People call themselves God's people and forget to dance with the one who brought them. Their character couldn't sustain their gift. But the key is, if you were the ONLY ONE, He would have still died for YOU. That's the Truth. Even as it is LIKE THAT, He died for the WORLD. For God so loved the WORLD.

I agree for the simple fact that people get "born-again" and then think that they're better, when they're not. Or they make a decision with their mind but never follow it through and give Him their heart. I've seen alot of people use CHRISTIANITY to base their hatred for others off of.

Religion... ever hear someone say, "Oh, I give it to God, God will get them back for the evil they're commited against me." I would question if that person is born-again!!
The Messiah said, "FATHER FORGIVE THEM, FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO."
He pretty much said, "I forgive them, Father, and I know that a judgement would be given for this sin, but I ask that you NOT hold them accountable for this sin, and not hold them accountable for THIS sin. That's how a BELIEVER is! Or a real follower of Yeshua.

You really don't find many if any televangelists on TV any more. You find people having an assembly on TV, and be that as it is.. people don't go to their local congregation to assemble and supply the gift that they are to the local body they've been called to join. Nope, they sit at home and watch people "do church" instead of learning how to BE THE CHURCH. On that note, I'm out. And April 20th, I'll wish you all happy passover, if the Lord tarry.

Did not read much of what you said Hellz. I did not have to, as I have heard it all before.

Without preaching a sermon, can you tell us all HOW Jesus dying on the cross was for me? It is almost like saying the Ghengis Khan invaded China so my soul will go to a happy place when this meat that surrounds it dies.

How does a jobless delusional man's painful and pathetic death relate to anything or anyone in this day and age?

Did not read much of what you said Hellz. I did not have to, as I have heard it all before.

Without preaching a sermon, can you tell us all HOW Jesus dying on the cross was for me? It is almost like saying the Ghengis Khan invaded China so my soul will go to a happy place when this meat that surrounds it dies.

How does a jobless delusional man's painful and pathetic death relate to anything or anyone in this day and age?

You're so ignorant of the Word of God had to ever read it would you have know the Occupation of the Messiah. He was a CARPENTER.
Ya know. I'm through with you all together. If you're truly hungry and sincere in your quest for truth, you'll be open enough to find truth, hopefully.

You're lucky to be in a COUNTRY to where the name of the Messiah isn't in famine. It's ABUNDANT. You've denied Him. He'll deny you. It's simple. He wants to accept you, but the only means for your acceptance to God is through Him. It's simple. Not complex. (This is why I have a hard time accepting the fact that I'm called mostly to America.) *+Shaking dust off my feet+* Dig that.

You're so ignorant of the Word of God had to ever read it would you have know the Occupation of the Messiah. He was a CARPENTER.
Ya know. I'm through with you all together. If you're truly hungry and sincere in your quest for truth, you'll be open enough to find truth, hopefully.

You're lucky to be in a COUNTRY to where the name of the Messiah isn't in famine. It's ABUNDANT. You've denied Him. He'll deny you. It's simple. He wants to accept you, but the only means for your acceptance to God is through Him. It's simple. Not complex. (This is why I have a hard time accepting the fact that I'm called mostly to America.) *+Shaking dust off my feet+* Dig that.

You must be a fucking troll. *Sigh*, let's dissect your post, shall we?

>> "If you're truly hungry and sincere in your quest for truth, you'll be open enough to find truth, hopefully."

And I assume you know the truth? Isn't believing in omniscience a sin or something in your religious-delusion? Either way, you're an arrogant prick.

>>> "You're lucky to be in a COUNTRY to where the name of the Messiah isn't in famine."

I beg to differ.

>>> "It's ABUNDANT. You've denied Him. He'll deny you. It's simple."

And so will Buddha and Allah Mohammed Jihad if you won't give them a daily tenth of your wages.

>>> "He wants to accept you, but the only means for your acceptance to God is through Him."

Then why doesn't he "accept" you without any strings attached? What, is this a "slave-negro" relationship? And by "Him", are you referring to Buddha? Yep, Buddha doesn't give a rat's ass about your thoughts, beliefs, experiences, or successes.

>>> "It's simple. Not complex. (This is why I have a hard time accepting the fact that I'm called mostly to America.)"

Believing in other mythologies, such as Zeus, Turban-Jihad Guy, or Buddha, isn't that complex doncha think? It just involves accepting a delusion. And can you elaborate what you mean by "being called mostly to America"?

You must be a fucking troll. *Sigh*, let's dissect your post, shall we?

>> "If you're truly hungry and sincere in your quest for truth, you'll be open enough to find truth, hopefully."

And I assume you know the truth? Isn't believing in omniscience a sin or something in your religious-delusion? Either way, you're an arrogant prick.

>>> "You're lucky to be in a COUNTRY to where the name of the Messiah isn't in famine."

I beg to differ.

>>> "It's ABUNDANT. You've denied Him. He'll deny you. It's simple."

And so will Buddha and Allah Mohammed Jihad if you won't give them a daily tenth of your wages.

>>> "He wants to accept you, but the only means for your acceptance to God is through Him."

Then why doesn't he "accept" you without any strings attached? What, is this a "slave-negro" relationship? And by "Him", are you referring to Buddha? Yep, Buddha doesn't give a rat's ass about your thoughts, beliefs, experiences, or successes.

>>> "It's simple. Not complex. (This is why I have a hard time accepting the fact that I'm called mostly to America.)"

Believing in other mythologies, such as Zeus, Turban-Jihad Guy, or Buddha, isn't that complex doncha think? It just involves accepting a delusion. And can you elaborate what you mean by "being called mostly to America"?



*No. If that were the case my Messiah would have never been as bold as to say "I AM THE TRUTH".

*He can't accept you. Your sin had to be covered with blood. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. Blood cries out unto God. Seen in the book of Revelation, and Genesis, when Cain killed Able. What does blood cry out for? Justice!
The flawless, innocent blood of the Messiah cries out on your behave. "Father, do I not deserve what I paid for?" JUSTICE! The love of God drove Him to the cross for your sins. His blood still cries out for MERCY, LOVE, JUSTICE, GLORY. His blood STILL cries out for YOU. But you MUST believe.

*"Go ye into all the world and preach (proclaim) the gospel (good news).
That's the COMISSION of a believe from the Messiah.

Uh, they have the best advertising strategy EVER. Buy into our product, it's customized just for you, and if you don't... You'll burn in hell.

Im sorry to ask, i feel like a forum newbie for asking but, whats a "troll?"