ok, so most people have religious beliefs, and some have Strong religious beliefs. When people with strong religious beliefs disagree with eachother, shit happens. For example. The Sunnis and the Shiites. Theres some diffrence in their religions, and suddenly, their killing eachother in a constant back and forth battle. One side does something, then the other retaliates, and so on. until soon, youve got carbombs going off next to schools and mosques. This isnt the only example. In one way or another, All wars have been caused by religion. The world would be better if people had no notion of god. If people could just respect eachother, and have strong morals without having to be threatened with hell, everything would be alright. but no. we have to have religion. Name one good thing caused by religion, that hasnt in turn caused something bad.

You blame religion when you should be blaming people. Religion doesnt force people to do things and many times religion has done wonderous things, such as bringing people together in a community. Religion, however, is the wrong word to use because anything can be a persons religion, but i think i know what you mean. Anyhow, it is rediculous to say religion started it. People may have used religion to start it, but it all falls back on the people themselves, not religion.

ok, so most people have religious beliefs, and some have Strong religious beliefs. When people with strong religious beliefs disagree with eachother, shit happens. For example. The Sunnis and the Shiites. Theres some diffrence in their religions, and suddenly, their killing eachother in a constant back and forth battle. One side does something, then the other retaliates, and so on. until soon, youve got carbombs going off next to schools and mosques. This isnt the only example. In one way or another, All wars have been caused by religion. The world would be better if people had no notion of god. If people could just respect eachother, and have strong morals without having to be threatened with hell, everything would be alright. but no. we have to have religion. Name one good thing caused by religion, that hasnt in turn caused something bad.

This has been done. The poster was shown wrong, and I laughed.

Bertrand Russell actually attempted to put value on all the good and bad that had been caused by religion and he actually came to the conclusion that religion had an overall positive outcome, in some utilitarian sense I assume.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but there are some good things. Such as sense of community and coming together of people. In America, we are so divided up and communityless, I see it as one of the few places where people reguarly come together and have a good time without any real alterior motives or already knowing one another(such as friends meeting each other at a bar, etc), especially for older people. Also, a lot of good from missionary work, domestic and abroad, as well as a lot of volunteering, donations and shelter(for instance, the sheltering of Katrina victims in neighboring areas). Of course, there is the usual pushing of religion in foreign missionary work, but that does not take away from the good that is also accomplished. Still, I think the most important thing some organized religions offer through sanctuaries, is a coming together of community which is unparalleled, atleast here in the states. I still kinda miss that about church, but oh well.

You blame religion when you should be blaming people. Religion doesnt force people to do things and many times religion has done wonderous things, such as bringing people together in a community. Religion, however, is the wrong word to use because anything can be a persons religion, but i think i know what you mean. Anyhow, it is rediculous to say religion started it. People may have used religion to start it, but it all falls back on the people themselves, not religion.

So, your saying that some people are more prone to violence?thruout history it has been religion at the front of nearly every issue. The crusades was to take back the HOLY land. radical groups of muslims carry out HOLY wars. Hitler wanted to purify his country of the unholy and weak. Puritans came to this country to freely practice their religion, therefore causing hundreds of years of conflict with native americans and other nations.

This has been done. The poster was shown wrong, and I laughed.

as for you. i posted this and went to bed. nobodys wrong until the debate is over asshat.

Bertrand Russell actually attempted to put value on all the good and bad that had been caused by religion and he actually came to the conclusion that religion had an overall positive outcome, in some utilitarian sense I assume.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but there are some good things. Such as sense of community and coming together of people. In America, we are so divided up and communityless, I see it as one of the few places where people reguarly come together and have a good time without any real alterior motives or already knowing one another(such as friends meeting each other at a bar, etc), especially for older people. Also, a lot of good from missionary work, domestic and abroad, as well as a lot of volunteering, donations and shelter(for instance, the sheltering of Katrina victims in neighboring areas). Of course, there is the usual pushing of religion in foreign missionary work, but that does not take away from the good that is also accomplished. Still, I think the most important thing some organized religions offer through sanctuaries, is a coming together of community which is unparalleled, atleast here in the states. I still kinda miss that about church, but oh well.

i know, religion most of the time does good and positive things, but every once in a while something Huge comes along and tears down all the progress religion made.

Again, it is the people who distort the religion. You have listed them, the soldiers in the crusades, the jihadists who bomb people, Hitler and his crazy self and the puritans causing strife. Religion can not make people do things ... the only things to blame for such actions are the people that commit them.

Religion is a shovel. Too bad people use it to bash each other's brains out instead of constructive things

Note: I read the OP and skimmed through this page.

I think that a good example that demonstrates a lot of people's view here is a rope.

A rope can be used to strangle someone to death, but this isn't necessarily what the rope is intended to do. The rope wouldn't be to blame, the person who used the rope for strangulation is to blame.

So in conclusion, religion is a purple jumping rope, guys. :D

Again, it is the people who distort the religion. You have listed them, the soldiers in the crusades, the jihadists who bomb people, Hitler and his crazy self and the puritans causing strife. Religion can not make people do things ... the only things to blame for such actions are the people that commit them.

But religion is nothing on its own. it needs people to interpret it. and people choose how to interpret it. religion gives them reason to do things.

Note: I read the OP and skimmed through this page.

I think that a good example that demonstrates a lot of people's view here is a rope.

A rope can be used to strangle someone to death, but this isn't necessarily what the rope is intended to do. The rope wouldn't be to blame, the person who used the rope for strangulation is to blame.

So in conclusion, religion is a purple jumping rope, guys. :D

exactly like the shovel quote, if there werent a rope (or shovel T.T) there wouldnt be a problem. plus, one does not need a rope to climb. one could use a ladder. (figure of speech)

But religion is nothing on its own. it needs people to interpret it. and people choose how to interpret it. religion gives them reason to do things.

If you look throughout history it is not religious teachings which cause people to commit acts of violence and terror, it is leaders. You are blind to see that 99% of the time "religious wars" actually have a political motive driving them and 75% of those are just power struggles among the ranks.

I don't know if this crosses anyone's mind but any violence for the cause of religion is sinful, because (at least in the Christian faith) the late JC and the 12 dawg posse didn't use violence, and those who disagreed with them and were willing to kill them for their 'blasphemy' were looked down upon as sinful and hateful..

I don't know much about the Muslim faith, or their views on violence for religion, so I can't really speak for them.

But most people need to start worshiping the God of Morality, and not the god of emotion and self concerned desires, that's what leads to violence and hatred.