When someone who has never encountered the Catholic church dies, do they go to hell, like any one who rejected the Catholic church would, even though they never got the chance for redemption?

Outlined there is the "hypothetical tribesman" problem. The official Catholic line, decided on at the Vatican II conference, is that the hypothetical tribesman isn't damned, God makes him a special case. Now, that works fine (in theory) for people who don't have any contact with Christianity. What about the mildly retarded and the chronically stupid though? What happens to the people who are too stupid or impaired to understand such concepts of love and hate, of sinning and so forth? Are they granted instant access to Heaven?

I don't really see how this supposed "God" figure is at all fair if he creates beings that are going straight to Heaven but with no concept of the significance of their current and (hypothetical) future situation(s). Or do they suddenly become cured and intelligent upon entering the pearly gates? Again, something I find to be rather unfair and illogical.

Religion is bullshit, but feel free to discuss this.

I'm sure if there is a god there is some kind of fair system in place.

He not gonna be like "Oh Retards??? Shit I didn't consider those."

I'm sure if there is a god there is some kind of fair system in place.

:rolleyes:.

A stunning answer.

Why would they? He already fucks people over for inane reasons supposedly, I don't see anything holding him back

After reading some fundie literature I'm convinced that ONLY retards and the chronically dumb go to heaven.

This (www.liveleak.com/view?i=9c5_1183286727) kid's screwed.

A stunning answer.

Is that sarcasm?
If so why?

He already fucks people over for inane reasons supposedly

Does he?

The question is meaningless, as there is no "hell" or "heaven" as most people imagine. They are best understood as myth and metaphor.

I agree with Pope John Paul II when he said that hell is not a location per se, but a state of mind we create when we choose to cut ourselves off from God.

We create our own heaven on earth when we live in a state of grace, maintain a constant state of joy through unity consciousness, otherwise known as walking in beauty, being enlightened, and so forth.

The question is meaningless, as there is no "hell" or "heaven" as most people imagine. They are best understood as myth and metaphor.

I agree with Pope John Paul II when he said that hell is not a location per se, but a state of mind we create when we choose to cut ourselves off from God.

We create our own heaven on earth when we live in a state of grace, maintain a constant state of joy through unity consciousness, otherwise known as walking in beauty, being enlightened, and so forth.

If Heaven and Hell are merely states of mind that we ourselves create, with Heaven being a state of mind achieved through a "constant state of joy through unity consciousness, otherwise known as walking in beauty, being enlightened, and so forth" and hell being that state of mind we create when "we choose to cut ourselves off from God", then not only are you saying that you can only find joy in [your examples] (we know this to be false, example: I find joy in getting drunk) but what does this leave God as?

God is the Alpha and the Omega, the Unmoved Mover, the creater and sustainer of the local universe.

God is the majesty of the eagle in flight and the wind that bears the eagle; the innocence of the fawn; the rage of the storm; and the laughter of a child.

I am God, thou art God, all that groks is God.

The question is meaningless, as there is no "hell" or "heaven" as most people imagine. They are best understood as myth and metaphor.

I agree with Pope John Paul II when he said that hell is not a location per se, but a state of mind we create when we choose to cut ourselves off from God.

We create our own heaven on earth when we live in a state of grace, maintain a constant state of joy through unity consciousness, otherwise known as walking in beauty, being enlightened, and so forth.

Damnit, this thread isn't here to argue over the existence of an afterlife. We are simply accepting fundie beliefs and then arguing why, even if we let them have those beliefs, the system still sucks.

I think the fundie response would be:
Yes, they also get a free ride. In mental capacity, they are equal or less comparable to a child 'not yet at the age of reason' whom also get free rides, therefore so shall the mentally handicapped.

We can see how obviously unjust this system is, beyond it's complete irrational bases.
Just curious, anywhere in the bible does it say god is supposed to be just or are we just ascribing him this property? I can remember christians speaking of his justice, but can't necessarily remember any bible verses saying this.

Anyone know?

God is the Alpha and the Omega, the Unmoved Mover, the creater and sustainer of the local universe.

God is the majesty of the eagle in flight and the wind that bears the eagle; the innocence of the fawn; the rage of the storm; and the laughter of a child.

I am God, thou art God, all that groks is God.

I agree.

Since when is the Christian god fair? You don't even have to have read the Bible to know that he's just about the opposite of fair.

I imagine that God thinks that the bulk of humanity is laughable in its judgment of intelligence.

I imagine that God thinks that the bulk of humanity is laughable in its judgment of intelligence.


God does not judge, but loves us just the way we are.

God does not judge, but loves us just the way we are.

Cite?

all babies go to heaven for their innocence so why not dumb and retarded. it was gods will for them to be like that so.

anyways you only need to believe in god not follow him to go to heaven.

john 3:16

God does not judge, but loves us just the way we are.

Nobody said he didn't. But ask yourself what a father thinks when he sees his child running around the house with a pair of briefs on their head. You just have to laugh it off.

Is that sarcasm?


You can tell its sarcasm becuase its a toothless joe post that wasn't the opening post in a thread.

God can read their soul and see what they would have done.

Well back to the original question, one reason christians use to prove there is a God is the fact that we humans have a conscious (which surely is a gift from the almighty). Now, depending on whether or not he acted according to his conscious would determine whether he went to Heaven or to Hell.

I have a reply, but it's not from a Catholic persuasion.

I'm not Catholic, I'm non-denominational, BUT...

I think they obviously would go to heaven, considering they are not capable of making the decision to believe or not.

This includes people who have never heard of a monotheistic religion, again since they then could not make the choice in the first place.

Then again someone afflicted with such a thing as mental retardation would probably deserve to go to heaven, at least in the eyes of one who isn't disabled.

Hell, to them maybe being retarded is the best thing ever.

Reincarnation until un-retarded and a ticket to nirvana?

Hinduism contains much knowledge.

any mentally retarted person will go to heaven, same as babies/kids. because neither have the mental capaicty to understand God or even what God is.