What exactly are the benefits of going to heaven?

Taking it that heaven is a physical place where you remain for eternity. Now to me eternity is a long time, so what exactly are the benefits of heaven.

Upon briefly studying various religious books (Bible/koran)..It mentions that whilst in heaven you will be drinking wine and eating fruit which will taste really nice, better than the normal taste..(in so many words)

So doesn't that indicate there will be hunger in heaven? hunger is a pain, you have to eat/drink to stay alive, why would you need to eat, surly god is not going to let you die in heaven or feel hunger pain as well?

What exactly can you do in heaven?

You can't watch Tv.
You can't go on the internet.
you can't read any books.
You can buy anything or sell anything.
why would you even need to learn anything?
You can't really socialize, well you can, but what would be the point? wouldn't it go something like this..

john: Oh hey jack, weathers nice eh?
Jack: yea, it sure is...
John: so...
Jack: Umm..Im so glad i made it to heaven..
John: Yea, me too..
Jack:.....so, what you been up to?
John:..Um, not much jack, not much...
Jack: ....i......see..
John:....
Jack:.....

After about 99999999999 trillion years of this, don't you think you will become a little depressed, Oh thats right, surly god won't let you become depressed, because that would be emotional pain wouldn't it.

So realistically wouldn't heaven be like planet earth, minus all the fun/entertaining things and negative emotions and physical pain.

So if i was to sit in an empty field, smoke weed and take pain killers, wouldn't that be somewhat close to what heaven would be like?

..........

I know people say things like heaven is not a physical place and all, then why is there passages referring to eating/drinking/being happy/walls and gates/gold etc

Another flaw in organized religion.

Well, it's much better than burning in a lake of fire for all eternity. :)

The Bible and Koran are two completely different books, surely the views on heaven differ.

Nothing beats no afterlife. Well, maybe reincarnation would be nice if the odds weren't so high that you'd be reborn as an animal or poor ass fugly.

Ask a christian about heaven, well if they think they know what it's like (I don't know why they do, but they do) and they say it's eternall bliss. So I guess when people ask would you rather be infinitely smart or happy, this is the happy pill.

This thread = dumb.

If you can find any fault with your imagined heaven, then it aint heaven.
The word itself is defined by total joy, love, bliss etc.

Think about the best possible state of existence you can think of. If that is something that has flaws then you aren't imagining hard enough.

Heaven isn't physical at all...The Kingdom of God is within you.

Its more of a metaphorical phrase used to describe something great you experience here on earth. You are on top of the world and you think "Im in heaven". If its bad, you say "This is hell".

Thats really all I make it out to be.

If I remember correctly what my old Sunday-school teacher told me it was that Heaven is such a drastically different "state" than the one we have on earth. There are no desires and no need to have those desires fulfilled. I guess Heaven could be considered the same thing as being "enlightened", seeing as they're both contentment.

Heaven isn't physical at all...The Kingdom of God is within you.

I see that you're confused. There are different uses of the phrase 'Kingdom of God' in the Bible.

Rizzo is not confused. He knows exactly what he means.

Rizzo is not confused. He knows exactly what he means.

Thank you.

I do know what it means, I have experienced it first hand.

Lion Eats Man, why do you think that I am confused?

What did you mean when you said that the kingdom of God is within you?

What did you mean when you said that the kingdom of God is within you?

Everything you experience, you experience within you. Humans are a feeling, not a physical constant. The Kingdom of God is hard to explain in terms normal to everyday conversation, but Jesus himself said that the Kingdom of God is within you.

Also, when asked what the Kingdom of God is like, Jesus answered:

"It is like a mustard seed, smaller than all seeds, but when it falls on the tilled Earth it produces a large tree and becomes shelter for all the birds of Heaven."

This physical world is nothing but a construct of your own mind and imagination. Quantum physics supports this idea, in that the world only exists when we look at it. We consider this weird only because we are bred to believe in a certain way.

Do you understand now, or would you like further clarification?

Quantum physics supports this idea, in that the world only exists when we look at it.

You misunderstand quantum physics, which does not actually validate the philosophy of Bishop Berkeley.

You misunderstand quantum physics, which does not actually validate the philosophy of Bishop Berkeley.

I have no idea who Bishop Berkeley is. Would you mind explaining?

Heaven isn't physical at all...The Kingdom of God is within you.

So the kingdom of god is new age?

Humans are a feeling, not a physical constant.
No, we are physical beings, not "feelings". Feelings are a process in the brain, not something you can be made out of.


The Kingdom of God is hard to explain in terms normal to everyday conversation, but Jesus himself said that the Kingdom of God is within you.
Jesus was an ignorant primitive, not to mention either a liar, lunatic or a fool. Why would I trust his opinion on anything? Assuming that actually is his opinion, and not those of the many translators with agendas his words passed through.


Also, when asked what the Kingdom of God is like, Jesus answered:

"It is like a mustard seed, smaller than all seeds, but when it falls on the tilled Earth it produces a large tree and becomes shelter for all the birds of Heaven."
My, how poetic of him. [/sarcasm] Also, quite meaningless.

This physical world is nothing but a construct of your own mind and imagination. Quantum physics supports this idea, in that the world only exists when we look at it.
That's not what quantum physics says. And if the physical world is "nothing but a construct of your own mind and imagination" then there is no such thing as quantum physics anyway.

We consider this weird only because we are bred to believe in a certain way.
Bred? Did you mean raised?

Jesus was an ignorant primitive, not to mention either a liar, lunatic or a fool.


Or extremely wise. You know that is a possibility.

Why would I trust his opinion on anything?


Because his opinions and teachings are about love. He doesn't tell people to hate one another and to resent everybody, he preaches forgiveness and love. If you don't trust a man who preaches that kinda thing then you got trust issues.

Or extremely wise. You know that is a possibility.



Because his opinions and teachings are about love. He doesn't tell people to hate one another and to resent everybody, he preaches forgiveness and love. If you don't trust a man who preaches that kinda thing then you got trust issues.

QFT....

I have no idea who Bishop Berkeley is. Would you mind explaining?

Would you mind first explaining what you know about quantum physics, and what the purpose of post #14 is?


The Kingdom of God is hard to explain in terms normal to everyday conversation...

Why does whichever God you believe in make it so difficult to understand things? :confused:

And I am surprised that a religious chap like you thinks he understands quantum physics, but hasn't heard of Bishop Berkeley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_Berkeley), who thought 'individuals can only directly know sensations and ideas of objects, not abstractions such as "matter.".

Because his opinions and teachings are about love. He doesn't tell people to hate one another and to resent everybody, he preaches forgiveness and love. If you don't trust a man who preaches that kinda thing then you got trust issues.
Just because what he has to say is nice doesn't mean he is to be trusted. For example, as soon as I end this post, I'm going to pack up my shiny new computer and send it to you, free of charge! Except I'm not, of course (sorry, but it's a nice computer ;) ).

Usually, I would suggest, people who attempt to gain your trust through trickery would tend to go more for saying nice things then saying bad ones. Someone saying bad things clearly is either trying less hard to get you on their side or is telling the truth of the matter (or covering up some even greater bad, of course).

Your argument, "he said nice things; ergo, we should trust him" is a bad one.

Just because what he has to say is nice doesn't mean he is to be trusted.

Your argument, "he said nice things; ergo, we should trust him" is a bad one.

So what does it take for you to trust someone? Anything positive they did, according to your rational, could be hiding something?
Trust issues.
I say innocent until proven guilty, and there is nothing written about Jesus that suggests he is guilty of anything negative.

So what does it take for you to trust someone? Anything positive they did, according to your rational, could be hiding something?
Anyone could be hiding something. And you've changed the argument, I see - anything positive they've done? We're talking about just words here. I would in fact be more inclined to trust someone if they've done good things. And if your argument had been that I probably wouldn't have disagreed with it. But that's not what you said, mon ami.

Trust issues.
I hope you're not still looking forward to my computer.



I say innocent until proven guilty, and there is nothing written about Jesus that suggests he is guilty of anything negative.
There's nothing written about me which suggests I'm guilty of anything negative. If you give me $50 now, I'll give you $100 back tomorrow.

That there's nothing suggesting he's guilty of anything negative is of course a matter of opinion. I would imagine, in fact, that there's a good number of Christians who would agree that he isn't perfect. After all, that's partly the point.

No, we are physical beings, not "feelings". Feelings are a process in the brain, not something you can be made out of.

There no way to tell if you are really anything more then an awareness. "Feelings" aren't really understood, within this consensual reality(if we are indeed sharing it), anyways.

Jesus was an ignorant primitive, not to mention either a liar, lunatic or a fool. Why would I trust his opinion on anything? Assuming that actually is his opinion, and not those of the many translators with agendas his words passed through.

If jesus was real, he certainly wasn't a fool. And you're right, you don't have any reason to trust him, or whats written. What rizzo is trying to show is an interpretation of what is written. And there are many.

And yes, you have no idea if rizzos interpretation means anything to you either. Which is why its a good idea to think about it yourself.

My, how poetic of him. [/sarcasm] Also, quite meaningless.

Again, that depends on how you look at it.

if the physical world is "nothing but a construct of your own mind and imagination" then there is no such thing as quantum physics anyway.

It obviously works well within the construct.

Bred? Did you mean raised?

Bred could be a distinct possibility.

That's not what quantum physics says.

Quantum physics says a lot of things, and a lot of it can be opinion too. Not all those physicists agree with one another.

Check this out. You might have to for what I'm about to say. Schrödinger's cat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger's_cat)

To everyone outside, watching the box, wondering if the cat has died or stayed alive...those events event have not yet become part of the consensual reality. They both exist in a superposition of states.

To the cat's version or reality, it either died or it did not. But only the cat would have observed this, so the event only exists within the perspective of the cat.

Once the box is opened, everyone else's reality then becomes complete.

I think this is similar to what Rizzo was trying to say. Correct me if Im mistaken, Rizzo.

Yes, Obbe, that is something similar to what I was going at. What I was specifically trying to go at, I don't really know and I don't think anyone will ever know.

Maybe my point is that you might say, "Why trust in Jesus?" or why believe what I am saying, or any of that? Why believe any of this?

Well ask yourself, why do you believe in the things that you DO believe in? Do you believe in science, because they have worked modern-day miracles? How happy has science made this generation, a generation of comfortable hells?

I believe that we only feel that we are physical beings. Unless you WANT to be a physical being, but for myself I know that I, the true I, am only in this world and certainly not of it. I hope you all can learn to be the same.

Faith is absurd, faith is illogical, but logic is a construct of man. Man has brought himself only hell, man needs something else, something outside of logic. Buddha, Jesus, God, the Nagual, whatever you want to say...it's out there. It's in here.

But don't listen to me, I know nothing at all. I'm some bumbling fool. Listen to yourself, your true self. Listen inside.

I think this is similar to what Rizzo was trying to say. Correct me if Im mistaken, Rizzo.

There are many different ways that physicists resolve that paradox, as your cite notes. But that still is not what Rizzo was saying wrt existence being contingent on observation. That's more closely tied to the Antrhropic Principle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle). But that is not something that physicists generally agree on.

Or extremely wise. You know that is a possibility.
I "know" nothing of the sort. As a man of his times, he was ignorant by definition. As a religious preacher, he was either a fool or morally corrupt, most likely both. Wisdom and religion are opposed to each other.


Because his opinions and teachings are about love. He doesn't tell people to hate one another and to resent everybody, he preaches forgiveness and love. If you don't trust a man who preaches that kinda thing then you got trust issues.
First, he was a religious leader, which makes him an enemy of humanity. Second, this "peace and love" garbage is due to selective reading of his teachings; people can and have used his teaching to promote war and tyranny, with just as much justification, if not more. Third, he was promoting a monotheism, which meant he was preaching hatred and war and tyranny, whether or not he realized it or cared.

And finally, as Martini pointed out, what one preaches has nothing at all to do with trustworthiness.


Well ask yourself, why do you believe in the things that you DO believe in? Do you believe in science, because they have worked modern-day miracles? How happy has science made this generation, a generation of comfortable hells?
Ohhhh, yes. My life in a warm, dry apartment surfing the Internet is so much worse that digging ditches under the hot sun as a slave somewhere. Or dying of the Black Plague because no one's invented the germ theory or penicillin. I was really looking forward to dying before thirty ! :rolleyes:


I believe that we only feel that we are physical beings. Unless you WANT to be a physical being, but for myself I know that I, the true I, am only in this world and certainly not of it.
You can believe all you like; it won't make the idea any less silly. And you "know" nothing of the kind; you have no means of doing so.


Faith is absurd, faith is illogical, but logic is a construct of man. Man has brought himself only hell, man needs something else, something outside of logic. Buddha, Jesus, God, the Nagual, whatever you want to say...it's out there. It's in here.
Logic is not a human construct; it's part of the nature of reality. And humans have not "brought themselves only hell". And the solution to our problems is NOT religion; it is a major source of our problems, and a barrier to solving them. Religion is madness and evil with a frosting of pretty rhetoric on top; the nearest thing there is to pure evil and stupidity.

Oh.

Well then, what is the answer, according to you?

i refuse to post in threads where people make gigantic dissertations and rebuttals. except for this one.

I "know" nothing of the sort.

If you're too arrogant to acknowledge that it is within the realms of possibility that Jesus was a wise man, then I'm not gonna waste my time with you.

Well, it's much better than burning in a lake of fire for all eternity. :)

Too bad that it doesn't exist. :(

If you're too arrogant to acknowledge that it is within the realms of possibility that Jesus was a wise man, then I'm not gonna waste my time with you.

ok what if i said there is a possibility of him being a very wise mand infact the the most wise anyone could ever be there could also be a possibility that he was a giant spaghetti monster capable of laser shooting nostrils MAUWUAWHAU THE POSSIBILITIES ARE ENDLESS

Its all very simple.. There is no god. And that means no heaven.


The bible, church and "god" is a result of human faith.

Its all made up by someone who had the need to belive that he would go somewhere nice when he died.. Which is wrong.

And the hole matrix idea is wrong too.

Our world, our place is unlimited.

The meaning with life is for it to end.
To many people, that makes no sence. But thats the way it is!

Everything has its opposite. "In our world anyway"

Everything = Nothing.

Ever heard of the big rip?

Ever heard of Déjà vu (already seen)

Well.. Allow me to tell you all what i belive in:


The Universe will expand, then it will collapse back on itself, then it will expand again. It will repeat this process forever.

Every mistake you make you will live through again and again forever.

Everything will be exactly as it is now.

The question is if we will ever be able to change this process without jeopardizing our existence.

No-one can reject my faith as an option.
Because the "big rip" is definitely happening and nothing else can explain Déjà vu.

Got nothing more to say right now.. So for those who don't understand.. well, we're not meant to understand everything.

Well I don't know, arriving there...maybe the paradise part.

But If a person with a strong tendency to use the rationalization defense mechanism for everything believes strongly in heaven, it can be a sort of conscience suppressor.

ok what if i said there is a possibility of him being a very wise mand infact the the most wise anyone could ever be there could also be a possibility that he was a giant spaghetti monster capable of laser shooting nostrils MAUWUAWHAU THE POSSIBILITIES ARE ENDLESS

Sure but you and I know that to entertain the notion of that being possible isn't worth the effort. Jesus being wise is worth considering since those implications can help you in your life.
Grow the fuck up.