As a Catholic, and a Latin non-speaker, I still think this is a great idea. Pope Benedict has hit the ball on the marker here. Frankly, if there is one thing I hate about the Church, it's their sad ass new English Hyms that sound like shit. Gregorian Chant is the way it should be. Whether or not you're religious, drop by a Catholic mass sometime to listen to how shitty the music is. If you already hate religion, this should make you hate it more. Unless it's Gregorian, then you'll hear some badass stuff.

who cares what language they speak as long as they keep raping little boys

I totally agree. I'm not a roaming catholic anymore but I always found that the vernacular mass sounded somehow lame. If our local church starts doing latin mass then I'll probably go just for the vibes.

Going back to the Latin makes zero sense. It's just beyond dumb IMO.

Going back to the Latin makes zero sense. It's just beyond dumb IMO.

Because, it's just tradition.

Latin's a badass language, and if this happens that means a large portion of the Catholic faith will become bilingual, or very familiar with other languages.

Because, it's just tradition.

Latin's a badass language, and if this happens that means a large portion of the Catholic faith will become bilingual, or very familiar with other languages.

No one is going to learn latin. Poor people in Latin America and Africa won't be able to afford the teaching. People in America and Europe won't do it because it's so archaic and useless these days. Do new priests even need to know latin? I agree that it sounds cool, but it's still just stupid.

Going back to the Latin makes zero sense. It's just beyond dumb IMO.

Fortunately unser Fuehrer *cough* nein, nein I mean of course our Pope-Vater *cough* is not needingz your opinions, schweinehund!!

*goes back to translating the Horst Wessel into Latin*

it's so archaic and useless these days.

I took it for a little while. It helps you understand Spanish and Italian so much better.

I took it for a little while. It helps you understand Spanish and Italian so much better.

I know it does, but latin in and of itself is largely useless unless you're studying the classics or are planning on becoming a Catholic church higher up(though I'm not sure if priests still need to know it).

No one is going to learn latin. Poor people in Latin America and Africa won't be able to afford the teaching. People in America and Europe won't do it because it's so archaic and useless these days. Do new priests even need to know latin? I agree that it sounds cool, but it's still just stupid.

I speak Latin pretty well, and it's a great language. It's more logical and easier to learn than any other language I've tried to learn. Plus, as you said it sounds really cool.

I speak Latin pretty well, and it's a great language. It's more logical and easier to learn than any other language I've tried to learn. Plus, as you said it sounds really cool.

Agreed. Except for the "I speak Latin pretty well".

I think that German is a more logical language.

I speak Latin pretty well, and it's a great language. It's more logical and easier to learn than any other language I've tried to learn. Plus, as you said it sounds really cool.

Is it the most logical language to learn as a second language? The answer is no regardless of where you live. Is it logical to have a mass in the language when 99% of the people in attendence won't understand 99% of the words being said?

It makes a lot of sense to learn latin if you're into languages, but it makes no sense for modern Catholic masses.

Is it the most logical language to learn as a second language? The answer is no regardless of where you live. Is it logical to have a mass in the language when 99% of the people in attendence won't understand 99% of the words being said?

It makes a lot of sense to learn latin if you're into languages, but it makes no sense for modern Catholic masses.

I don't think people truly understand anything anyway, so you might as well pick a language that is more pleasing to the ears.

That's just me, though.

Is it the most logical language to learn as a second language? The answer is no regardless of where you live. Is it logical to have a mass in the language when 99% of the people in attendence won't understand 99% of the words being said?

It makes a lot of sense to learn latin if you're into languages, but it makes no sense for modern Catholic masses.

I don't mean logical to learn, I mean that the grammar and spelling usually actually follows a set of rules. There are much fewer irregular words than any other language I've tried to learn.

And there is a reason to learn it, it helps you learn and understand English, Italin, and Spanish.

I don't think people truly understand anything anyway, so you might as well pick a language that is more pleasing to the ears.

That's just me, though.

Catholicism has been having attendence problems as it is. Changing to Latin would just make things even worse.

Razor: I understand what you're saying now. I Agree with that, since I had teachers that talked a lot in latin(Euro history and literature), so I get that, but my argument doesn't really have anything to do with that aspect of latin. I would have my opinion if they made the language of Catholicism anything, whether it be latin, german, English, spanish, french, etc.... It should be in the vernacular, plain and simple.

Going back to the Latin makes zero sense. It's just beyond dumb IMO.

No it isn't. I don't see anything dumb about a church having a Mass in Latin if it's members want one. They will still do the Mass in vernacular. It's just that some people find it dumb that the Church dumped the Latin and all the extra beautiful stuff to do hokey protestant hymns and holding hands during the Our Father.

Catholicism has been having attendence problems as it is. Changing to Latin would just make things even worse.

Razor: I understand what you're saying now. I Agree with that, since I had teachers that talked a lot in latin(Euro history and literature), so I get that, but my argument doesn't really have anything to do with that aspect of latin. I would have my opinion if they made the language of Catholicism anything, whether it be latin, german, English, spanish, french, etc.... It should be in the vernacular, plain and simple.

You do know its not going to be an universal change, don't you? Infact it'll probably be very limited. The pope is simply allowing priests to offer the Latin mass if they wish or think there is a need/desire for it in their parish.

Priests can get permission from the bishop to do this now, the new rule will simple remove the need for the priests to get the bishop's permission.

As far as I understand it anyway.

You do know its not going to be an universal change, don't you? Infact it'll probably be very limited. The pope is simply allowing priests to offer the Latin mass if they wish or think there is a need/desire for it in their parish.

Priests can get permission from the bishop to do this now, the new rule will simple remove the need for the priests to get the bishop's permission.

As far as I understand it anyway.

I do know that, but I also know there is the possibilities of entire dioceses making the changeover(I specifically heard this is a possibility in France where there are a lot of hard line Catholics, especially in the higher up positions).

I don't even like that it's up to the priests to decide to do it in Latin. I hope any priest that does make the change at least consults his parish before doing so.

Zman, I understand the hate for the vernacular hymns(most of them sound like little kids songs IMO), but I don't understand why they couldn't just sing in latin if that's such a big deal.

Is there really any need for the homily to be in latin these days?

Going back to the Latin makes zero sense. It's just beyond dumb IMO.

that's probably because your a catholicized bastard (you like how i made a pun out of the word circumcizd...) and you don't know anything about historical sentiments affecting the general welfare of our instable socioeconomic structure that we call our society... yeah that's a fucking blazed ass statement. but it's true! oh and latin > any language after it. and i don't even know a lot of it xD i'm just high and prefer the words in latin over english

I suspect that Benedict would bring back torturing heretics if he could.

However, evolution will not be denied, as "Catholosism" moves slowly but surely into the nineteenth century.

I hate Latin mass. It's longer, even more boring, and you have no idea what the fuck is going on. And God help your sinuses when that incense drifts your way. I also got weird looks from the ultra-traditional attendees because of my long hair.

But I will concede that most Catholic churches play shit for music.

It's more logical and easier to learn than any other language I've tried to learn.

The syntax is so straight forward.

As a Catholic, and a Latin non-speaker, I still think this is a great idea. Pope Benedict has hit the ball on the marker here. Frankly, if there is one thing I hate about the Church, it's their sad ass new English Hyms that sound like shit. Gregorian Chant is the way it should be. Whether or not you're religious, drop by a Catholic mass sometime to listen to how shitty the music is. If you already hate religion, this should make you hate it more. Unless it's Gregorian, then you'll hear some badass stuff.

As an organist I take offense at calling church music terrible! Yet, hymns should be in Latin/Italian! [both are much better for singing]

The syntax is so straight forward.

Which syntax?
This syntax.
Your syntax.

O I C. Sarcasm.

You really need to replace 'the' with a pronoun.

However, evolution will not be denied, as "Catholosism" moves slowly but surely into the nineteenth century.

Even though I'm an atheist, catholicism makes a helluva lot more sense than your shamanistic mumbo jumbo, troll. And catholics are known to be a lot more progressive than protestants.

The American ones anyway. I have to admit that I haven't heard of any others.

American Catholicism is pretty liberal. European Catholicism can be very conservative(a lot of times reactionary). African Catholicism can also be pretty conservative(though I don't know how much of that stems from Vatican influence or from the African leaders themselves). South American Catholics can go both ways, being conservative when it comes to things like abortion and sex, and being very liberal when it comes to welfare and taxes. It really depends.

As an organist I take offense at calling church music terrible! Yet, hymns should be in Latin/Italian! [both are much better for singing]

I've gone to a Catholic Church since I was sucking on my mother's tits. If there is one thing I hate more about it, is the sad ass hymms. In Grade 7, we had a music history class that was compulsory, in this class we studied music from Gregorian Chant to Iron Maiden. I LOVED Gregorian Chant, these men Harmonizing each other. The Latiness, the greatness.

HYMMS SUCK!

American Catholicism is pretty liberal. European Catholicism can be very conservative(a lot of times reactionary). African Catholicism can also be pretty conservative(though I don't know how much of that stems from Vatican influence or from the African leaders themselves). South American Catholics can go both ways, being conservative when it comes to things like abortion and sex, and being very liberal when it comes to welfare and taxes. It really depends.

How can catholicism of one continent differ from catholicism of another? If they do not follow the guidance of the pope, they aren't catholic anymore.

I agree that the line of thought of Benedict XVI is more conservative than that of John Paul II. But it's not as if he's bringing back the inquisition. If anything, he's trying to convince Europe to go back to it's christian roots, in response to the growing number of followers of islam in Europe.

I dont think there's anything wrong with that, per se, but I do believe he's approaching it wrong.

How can catholicism of one continent differ from catholicism of another? If they do not follow the guidance of the pope, they aren't catholic anymore.

I agree that the line of thought of Benedict XVI is more conservative than that of John Paul II. But it's not as if he's bringing back the inquisition. If anything, he's trying to convince Europe to go back to it's christian roots, in response to the growing number of followers of islam in Europe.

I dont think there's anything wrong with that, per se, but I do believe he's approaching it wrong.

The Catholicism isn't different, it's just that Catholics from different geographical regions and socio-economic backgrounds are going to have different views and perspectives on social and Catholic issues. The Catholicism is all identical, it's just the views on certain subjects(such as female priests or the use of latin in masses) is going to be different based on a number of factors.

So the pope anounce that the catholic church is the one true church.

So the pope anounce that the catholic church is the one true church.

I believe Jesus said that first

I believe Jesus said that first

Catholic wasn't in Jesus' vocabulary.

But anyway, I'm not Catholic. In fact, I'm not a big fan of Christianity, but I absolutely love masses in latin. It's so beautiful, and amazing.

I suppose it helps that I'm a linguophile, and I do know Latin (non fluently, and my ear is better then my pronunciation)

Catholic wasn't in Jesus' vocabulary.



stupid argument

stupid argument

Any way of knowing what happened from the time St. Peter died to the time the Catholic church started?

Any way of knowing what happened from the time St. Peter died to the time the Catholic church started?

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11744a.htm

You should be able to answer your own question with the help of those links.

stupid argument

How is that a stupid argument? Please elaborate for me.

How is that a stupid argument? Please elaborate for me.

cuz its an argument based on what a word they would have called the same thing. Just because they didn't call it the 'Catholic Church' doesn't mean that isn't what it was.

Maybe I'm mistaken but isn't there a difference between the Jewish church which Jesus was speaking about and knew about versus the Catholic church which developed quite a while after he died?

Maybe I'm mistaken but isn't there a difference between the Jewish church which Jesus was speaking about and knew about versus the Catholic church which developed quite a while after he died?

You should read those links I posted.

Maybe I'm mistaken but isn't there a difference between the Jewish church which Jesus was speaking about and knew about versus the Catholic church which developed quite a while after he died?

Jesus wasn't speaking about the Jewish church. He founded a new Church which was the Catholic Church even if it was called Catholic.

Going back to the Latin makes zero sense. It's just beyond dumb IMO.

Tace. Non licet tibi inquire. Procax et fatuus es.

I don't think people truly understand anything anyway, so you might as well pick a language that is more pleasing to the ears.

That's just me, though.

Anytime anyone says anything in German, it sounds like they are either sneezing or swearing.

Gross.

Also, because Gregorian Chant IS better:
Agnus dei, qui tolis pecata mundi. Miserere nobis.
Agnus dei, qui tolis pecata mundi. Dona nobis pacem.

And this is why I'm a protestant. Well agnostic.. but I still have a wierd bit of Christian faith and I have to go to church every now and then.

And this is why I'm a protestant.

Why, because there's no Latin? I'm lost.

Well agnostic.. but I still have a wierd bit of Christian faith and I have to go to church every now and then.

The book of James says we are not saved by faith alone.

I think it would be brilliant if it was made compulsory for the masses to be in latin. Non latin speakers would slowly get to learn a new language, and if you were a catholic and went to a church overseas, you'd know exactly what was being said. It also offers a common ground in the way of communication between different languages.

Catholics should have to learn latin. Anything is better than those sad protestant hippy songs they started to play recently. I remember one Christmas they played that gay "Oh Christmas Tree" song - I stopped going after that. We need more mysticism, incense, and cool things in the church. I'll never believe in god, but I think a cool mass would be worth attending just for the luls. Take away the pews and just drape furs on the floor. Lights are replaced by fiery torches and banks of candles. Everyone should have to wear robes or something. Burn all the modern churches and move either into old churches or underground, or even outside. And incense should be burning constantly in the corner. Plus heretics and especially protestants should be tortured, that's the way Jesus wanted it to be.

Latin Lesson

Brian is writing a slogan to a wall, oblivious to the Roman patrol approaching
from behind. The slogan is "ROMANES EUNT DOMUS".

C: What's this thing?
"ROMANES EUNT DOMUS"?
"People called Romanes they go the house"?
B: It, it says "Romans go home".
C: No it doesn't. What's Latin for "Roman"?
B: (hesitates)
C: Come on, come on!
B: (uncertain) "ROMANUS".
C: Goes like?
B: "-ANUS".
C: Vocative plural of "-ANUS" is?
B: "-ANI".
C: (takes paintbrush from Brian and paints over) "RO-MA-NI".
"EUNT"? What is "EUNT"?
B: "Go".
C: Conjugate the verb "to go"!
B: "IRE". "EO", "IS", "IT", "IMUS", "ITIS", "EUNT".
C: So "EUNT" is ...?
B: Third person plural present indicative, "they go".
C: But "Romans, go home!" is an order, so you must use the ...?
(lifts Brian by his hairs)
B: The ... imperative.
C: Which is?
B: Ahm, oh, oh, "I", "I"!
C: How many romans? (pulls harder)
B: Plural, plural! "ITE".
C: (strikes over "EUNT" and paints "ITE" to the wall)
(satisfied) "I-TE".
"DOMUS"? Nominative? "Go home", this is motion towards, isn't it, boy?
B: (very anxious) Dative?
C: (draws his sword and holds it to Brian's throat)
B: Ahh! No, ablative, ablative, sir. No, the, accusative, accusative,
ah, DOMUM, sir.
C: Except that "DOMUS" takes the ...?
B: ... the locative, sir!
C: Which is?
B: "DOMUM".
C: (satisfied) "DOMUM" (strikes out "DOMUS" and writes "DOMUM") "-MUM".
Understand?
B: Yes sir.
C: Now write it down a hundred times.
B: Yes sir, thank you sir, hail Caesar, sir.
C: (salutes) Hail Caesar.
If it's not done by sunrise, I'll cut your balls off.
B: (very reliefed) Oh thank you sir, thank you sir, hail Caesar and
everything, sir!

Huzzah!