Ya know, you hear this quote alot if you ask Christians about Jesus and why believing in him matters as to why you should be allowed into heaven or not. Wtf does dying for our sins mean and does it work retroactively for the past 200,000 years of mankind? Is it really necessary that a man die for something that is completely abstract?

It's called a belief for a reason :D

Wait just one theological, pedagogical minute, there!!

What does the Bible tell us happened to Jesus? Well, he died sometime after noon on Friday. By Monday morning he was again up and about. So I've always thought of it this way: Jesus gave up a weekend for my sins. Not much of a sacrifice, even for an old rabbi.

Of course, there is a different spin: What do you call someone who dies, then is brought back to life by supernatural means? I give you: The Zombie Jesus! Hide your brains!!

The whole died for your sins thing is bogus, for several reasons. One, we don't die. Our souls are eternal, immortal--ever were, ever will be. Even the Bible admits that. You know, "he that believeth in me shall not die, but have everlasting life"-presumably, the Nazz believed in himself.

Two, there is some rather strong scriptural evidence that Jesus didn't really die on the cross, but you have to read the original Greek to get it. (There was a screw-up when the Greek was translated into Latin and then into English. Important stuff got lost in the shuffle.)

Finally, there is no such thing as "sin." This was a concept concocted by the priesthood to help them maintain power and control.

There is nothing we need to be saved "from"--except, maybe, from raving fundies and the like. Our only enemy is fear.

Our souls are eternal, immortal--ever were, ever will be.
Cite?

Cite?

Remember where you are - this is MGCBTSOOYG, not Politics or humanities.

If you're requesting proof, you might as well provide some evidence that would falsify his claim as well.

Wait just one theological, pedagogical minute, there!!

What does the Bible tell us happened to Jesus? Well, he died sometime after noon on Friday. By Monday morning he was again up and about. So I've always thought of it this way: Jesus gave up a weekend for my sins. Not much of a sacrifice, even for an old rabbi.

Of course, there is a different spin: What do you call someone who dies, then is brought back to life by supernatural means? I give you: The Zombie Jesus! Hide your brains!!

You need to reread your bible.

Actually (in as far as it tells us at all) he died Friday afternoon and "arose" Saturday evening or maybe Sunday morning.

Remember where you are - this is MGCBTSOOYG, not Politics or humanities.
And this makes asking for a source irrelevant?

If I claim something that is not common information, anyone has every right to ask where I got that information.

If you're requesting proof, you might as well provide some evidence that would falsify his claim as well.
Sorry, it doesn't work that way. The burden of proof is on the one making the extraordinary claim. It's not on the skeptic to prove that the claim is false.

You should propbably read this (http://www.bcskeptics.info/resources/criticalthinking/irf.burden.html).

So, if he did die for my sins..how many do I get? what is the limit? and how (once I sin) do I tell him so he can keep a tab?

I propose that if you let another man die for your sins, you're a shrivel dicked coward. A REAL man would refuse the offer of salvation and pay his own penalty by refusing to accept jesus christ as their lord and savior.

Never trust a Christian. They forgive themselve's too easily.

I propose that if you let another man die for your sins, you're a shrivel dicked coward. A REAL man would refuse the offer of salvation and pay his own penalty by refusing to accept jesus christ as their lord and savior.

Never trust a Christian. They forgive themselve's too easily.

Hmmm--testerone and metaphysics--interesting mix.

I would suggest that a "real" man (whatever that may be) and a "real" woman (as opposed to a sex doll?) is too busy living life to the fullest in the present moment, too busy working on his or her own spiritual evolution to worry about the obsolete Piscean Age concept known as "sin."

It isn't about "refusal"--it is about transcending the Abrahamic religion's mindset.

Everyone in this thread seems to have got something about it right, but I really want a response from a hardcore fundie (is that repetitive?) I'm not being rhetorical or belittling, I honestly want to know what they mean by this concept of 'dying for our sins'. It honestly pervades my contextual analysis of the phrase.

To my mind, Jesus died because he was obstinate and vocal about his system of beliefs and his own role in them, to the point of insulting others.

Whether or not this is a good thing is a matter of interpretation I suppose, but point being, he died because he annoyed people and made little effort to appease them, even when faced with his death.

Kinda Socratic, huh?

It's called a belief for a reason :D

Huh? What exactly do you mean? I'm interested

I am the King of Rome, and above grammar.

Two, there is some rather strong scriptural evidence that Jesus didn't really die on the cross, but you have to read the original Greek to get it. (There was a screw-up when the Greek was translated into Latin and then into English. Important stuff got lost in the shuffle.)

Do explain more - I don't recall hearing this before.

Guess God doesn't love us all that much after all if he can't forgive us after we're dead and are being judged. If he is "all powerful" as they claim, he could do it if he wanted to

what was the point of him dying for our sins when he would just be resurrected again and return home to his dad

Two, there is some rather strong scriptural evidence that Jesus didn't really die on the cross, but you have to read the original Greek to get it. (There was a screw-up when the Greek was translated into Latin and then into English. Important stuff got lost in the shuffle.)

Not really, its still there if you read the NT. And the screw up goes back far further than the translation into Latin from greek.

If anyone is interested I'll do a thread sometime and list some of the points.

Certainly with just whats in the NT any competent bible scholar can build a convincing case for the 'non death' of jesus on the cross. Infact sometimes theology students are set just such an exercise.

If anyone is interested I'll do a thread sometime and list some of the points.



I'd be very interested in reading that, for the record.

"He died for our sins"

Yea, but he didn't help me get laid. Hence I'm not a Christian.

You all seem to be forgetting how Krishna and Mithra both died for our sins before Jesus did :(

You all seem to be forgetting how Krishna and Mithra both died for our sins before Jesus did :(

But your forgetting Jesus was prophesied dieing on the cross way before those gods were invented.

gods were invented.

:::::

But your forgetting Jesus was prophesied dieing on the cross way before those gods were invented.

Once again your lack of knowledge of the scriptures shines through.

Cite?

This IS common information--among folks like me, Jesus, the Buddha, gazillions of Gnostic Christians and Islamic Sufis, and every saint, shaman, and ascended master who ever lived.

"Cite," indeed. What you need, sonny, is insight.

Harrumph.

This IS common information--among folks like me, Jesus, the Buddha, gazillions of Gnostic Christians and Islamic Sufis, and every saint, shaman, and ascended master who ever lived.
Bullshit! Claiming that others have believed we have souls, and even further claiming that these souls "are eternal, immortal--ever were, ever will be" does not count as a cite that any of your extraordinary claims have evidence supporting them.

You have no reliable evidence that Jesus existed and you have zero evidence that if he did, any claims about the soul are accurate. All sorts of people have made all sorts of claims.

What cite can you give that backs up your claim Jesus and Islamic sufis claimed that our souls had no beginning? Where can you cite the Buddah making claims about souls? What cite can you give that backs up your claim that every saint, shaman, and ascended master who ever lived believed in souls? Do you believe that others beliefs count as evidence that your claims about souls are true?

"Cite," indeed. What you need, sonny, is insight.

Harrumph.
Harrumph? Do you think you made such a great rebuttal that you have something to gloat over and call me "sonny"? If insight means having to believe that things exist which there is zero evidence for, I'm glad I have none.

But your forgetting Jesus was prophesied dieing on the cross way before those gods were invented.

Actually, the OT declares that all future prophets are false. Oops....

and call me "sonny"?

At his age he gets to call me sonny too.

And I'm probably old enough to be your dad (my eldest kid is almost 19).

And I'm probably old enough to be your dad.
I doubt it; I'm 39.

I doubt it; I'm 39.

Lol, pwnd.

Lol, pwnd.

I don't think you understand the meaning of "pwned".

Stating your age does not "pwn" someone.

"He died for our sins"

Yea, but he didn't help me get laid. Hence I'm not a Christian.

i lol'd hard +1

watch the first 1/3 of this: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=928518742089256264 , then tell me who died for my sins.

Never trust a Christian. They forgive themselve's too easily.

I hate to generalize, but in my experience, I have found this occurence in many Christians.

They usually don't really have mental "demons" tho deal with on a daily basis, and a reduced sense of shame and guilt, along with a sort of "conscience buffer." This seems to be due to dismissal of troubling thoughts, and a lack of scrutiny of the motives behind their own actions.

I think in this day and age, it is normal to be "troubled" by at least a small number of things. Christians seem to have sort of a little safety-deposit-box intheir brains they just sweek all the litter into...

:(

Of course, there are a number of admirable Christians among us, as with any other group.

what was the point of him dying for our sins when he would just be resurrected again and return home to his dad

Because it's a fucking story about sacrifice. You ever hear the saying 'You have to give to gain'? Yeah, the new testament is exactly that, but expanded into about 8000 words with a bunch of loopy mystical shit thrown in to keep your attention while it hammers in the reality of material, energetic, and spiritual conservation.

BTW, I'm not a fundie...so OP, disregard this. :P