I thought this belonged here, but it's a reply in I found it on the web, didn't want it to go to waste.
------------------------------
I'm not religious, I have found though that with a certain ability called Astral Projection you can meet different God's or ascended beings. In this case the Christian God is actually a word describing not a singular object but instead everything around you, whilst other "God's" such as Egyption God's (except Ra) were ascended human beings. In Astral projection you can also create beings by will, so therefore every God ever thought of does exist to one extent or another.

Therefore this sight fucking sucks. And so do christians, Athiests, and all other religions.

Athiests especially since there's no point in actually being athiest, your not searching for anything therefore making it IMPOSSIBLE for you to ever find the truth. Hence Athiests are morons in the area of spirituality, and will never be able to feel a sense of euphoria and content that their pathetic existence is actually there, regardless if they were "created" by some being, or simply shot out of a cunt. I seemed to have known the majority of athiests I know of, being athiests takes out the respect and gratitude of all the things around you-also some are even such dumbfucks they don't even believe in meditation-which has fucking nothing to do with religion... (it does, but you don't have to have ANY belief in religion, and there's also obvious signs including scientific finds, that meditation does alter the body in good ways.)

Another thing
Some athiests are fine with the idea that there's nothing after death, but then when it actually comes, basically "FUCK....FUCK.....FUCK THIS FUCKING SUCKS WTF I DONT WANT TO DIE...." comes into mind, and the actual thought of death finally sinks in that their memory will be long forgotten and their existence meaningless and pathetic, and it wouldn't of made any difference if they would've shot themselves through the head long ago.

I also suggest listening to the song "Thoughts of a dying athiest" by Muse.

Spirituality is the only real way to go, it doesn't restrict you in ANY way, and you can actually come up with your own conclusions through experience.

I study religion and psychology by the way, and I remember in one part of the christian bible, it states jesus saying "If you blasphamy against the holy father, you shall be forgiven, if you blasphamy against christ, you shall be forgiven, but if you blasphamy against the holy spirit (your own spirit), you will never be forgiven.

Remember what I said about god's and beings being able to exist merely from will in the Astral realm? well same goes for your own spirit, denying it's own existence, do you really think that's beneficial to it at all?

Also people who are not athiest (and normally spiritualists not religious) always reap the best benefits, are less stressed, and are prone to being less violent, and normally adapt better and can obtain serenity at any given moment. (Atleast I can...)

Athiesm now followed by less serious athiest (just a bunch of idiot kids) are looking at athiesm as a fad now days...I used to have respect for athiests for their skeptical views (regardless of their restrictions of being able to have self experience), they provided good evidence sometimes.

Now days their just trying to sell a book and get money or become famous...
Same goes with christians, and muslims mostly....

This worlds philisophical view to most people is horribly distorted, which fucking sucks for the rest of the people.

I Even bet that most christians don't even know that Jesus talked about how meditation is the key (in which is said in the Gnosis), and didn't know that Jesus even in the bible stated DON"T FUCKING GO TO CHURCH...

This post shows many untrue biases against athiests. All athiests are stupid... kidiots infact? That mirrors closely to how the bible calls all athiests "fools".

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fdVucvo-kDU

Are all those famous athiests fools?


Does being an athiest really get rid of all purpose of living? Some answers:

"Q. If you don't believe in God, then what is the point of living?

A. Why does living need to have a "point" at all? Do the "lilies of the field" need to have a point to live?

If you must have a "point", then decide on your own meaning of life. We believe that it's much better do determine our own purpose, than to have some church do it for you based on their agenda!"


"Q. Doesn't being an Atheist "cheapen" life?


A. Actually religion cheapens life. Being an Atheist makes life more precious. Since there is no after-life, you must come to terms with the fact that this is the ONLY life you'll get. If an atheist throws himself in front of a bus in order to save a child, that action is much more meaningful than if a Christian did the same thing. The Christian thinks they'll just go to heaven and live there!

Look at the 9/11/2001 massacre in New York and Washington D.C. Those religious (Muslim) people thought that their actions would hasten and ensure their entry into eternal bliss, but what they actually did was throw away the only life they had in an act of "faith". "
http://digitalfreethought.com/questions.htm

Plus, to defend Christianity, I'm pretty sure Jesus doesn't say "FUCKING" in the bible. Infact seeing as churches weren't around during Christ's time, since Christianity didn't exist then... It seems HIGHLY unlikely that he would mention anything about not going to something that didn't exist at the time.

This post shows many untrue biases against athiests. All athiests are stupid... kidiots infact? That mirrors closely to how the bible calls all athiests "fools".

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fdVucvo-kDU

Are all those famous athiests fools?


Does being an athiest really get rid of all purpose of living? Some answers:

"Q. If you don't believe in God, then what is the point of living?

A. Why does living need to have a "point" at all? Do the "lilies of the field" need to have a point to live?

If you must have a "point", then decide on your own meaning of life. We believe that it's much better do determine our own purpose, than to have some church do it for you based on their agenda!"


"Q. Doesn't being an Atheist "cheapen" life?


A. Actually religion cheapens life. Being an Atheist makes life more precious. Since there is no after-life, you must come to terms with the fact that this is the ONLY life you'll get. If an atheist throws himself in front of a bus in order to save a child, that action is much more meaningful than if a Christian did the same thing. The Christian thinks they'll just go to heaven and live there!

Look at the 9/11/2001 massacre in New York and Washington D.C. Those religious (Muslim) people thought that their actions would hasten and ensure their entry into eternal bliss, but what they actually did was throw away the only life they had in an act of "faith". "
http://digitalfreethought.com/questions.htm

Plus, to defend Christianity, I'm pretty sure Jesus doesn't say "FUCKING" in the bible. Infact seeing as churches weren't around during Christ's time, since Christianity didn't exist then... It seems HIGHLY unlikely that he would mention anything about not going to something that didn't exist at the time.

I didn't say all athiests are stupid I said all athiests are restricted. (calling athiests morons as well in the area of spirituality is pointing out the restriction of never having self-experience, therefore no conclusion could ever be made due to this being an area not measurable to science since there are so many variables with each individual since everyones different.)

Also, Sure, there's famous people from every religion as well, not just athiests.

Also, I know Jesus never said "Fucking", and it actually does mention that Jesus said that in the bible-regardless of what you may think if churches existed in the time, perhaps he was talking about group meetings?

Religion may cheapen life, Athiesm cheapens life believe it or not for some though as well (For there are athiests who believe fuck it, we live once, who cares?)

Every person will look at life in a different viewpoint, regardless in choice or religion or no religion. I'm simply stating spirituality isn't religion or athiesm, and it gives you no restriction to being a skeptic to either.

I don't want to even start a debate about 9/11, but those muslims aren't real muslims in the first place (the ones who suicide), it's just like how christians call God as a singular being. It's distortion to simplify or gain control of things.

Religion cheapens life because it distracts you from the goodness and value available to one as a person in this world, for the hollow promise of the next.

Atheism reminds you just how goddamn important everything is.

Athiests especially since there's no point in actually being athiest
Why is there no point in being without belief in God/gods? The point for most atheist is that without evidence to back up the fantastic claim that God/gods exist, there's no reason to believe they do.




, your not searching for anything therefore making it IMPOSSIBLE for you to ever find the truth.
How did you come to the conclusion that atheists aren't searching for anything?


Hence Athiests are morons in the area of spirituality, and will never be able to feel a sense of euphoria and content that their pathetic existence is actually there, regardless if they were "created" by some being, or simply shot out of a cunt.
Why can't atheist be spiritual without believing in God/gods? There are other things to live for besides belief in an everlasting afterlife and we are certainly capable of feeling euphoria and being content.



being athiests takes out the respect and gratitude of all the things around you
That's because we don't believe in sky faries. We also don't have any gods/devils to blame when things wrong.


-also some are even such dumbfucks they don't even believe in meditation-which has fucking nothing to do with religion... (it does, but you don't have to have ANY belief in religion, and there's also obvious signs including scientific finds, that meditation does alter the body in good ways.)
And most religious people don't meditate either. So what?


Another thing
Some athiests are fine with the idea that there's nothing after death, but then when it actually comes, basically "FUCK....FUCK.....FUCK THIS FUCKING SUCKS WTF I DONT WANT TO DIE...." comes into mind, and the actual thought of death finally sinks in that their memory will be long forgotten and their existence meaningless and pathetic, and it wouldn't of made any difference if they would've shot themselves through the head long ago.
Proving that death sucks. So what? Religious people go through the same hard time with death, probably because their rational side realizes that their fairy tales are fairy tales.


Spirituality is the only real way to go, it doesn't restrict you in ANY way, and you can actually come up with your own conclusions through experience.
And how are atheists restricted? Have you come to the conclusion that they are close minded?


I study religion and psychology by the way, and I remember in one part of the christian bible, it states jesus saying "If you blasphamy against the holy father, you shall be forgiven, if you blasphamy against christ, you shall be forgiven, but if you blasphamy against the holy spirit (your own spirit), you will never be forgiven.
If it's written in a book it's true?


Remember what I said about god's and beings being able to exist merely from will in the Astral realm? well same goes for your own spirit, denying it's own existence, do you really think that's beneficial to it at all?
Yes. Belief in incredible claims with nothing to back those claims up is absolutely restricting yourself from finding truth.


Also people who are not athiest (and normally spiritualists not religious) always reap the best benefits, are less stressed, and are prone to being less violent, and normally adapt better and can obtain serenity at any given moment. (Atleast I can...)
Cite? By the way, individual biased studies don't count as reliable evidence.

Even if that were true, does belief in what feels best mean that that belief is true?


Now days their just trying to sell a book and get money or become famous...
Yeah, most of us atheists are making a pretty penny off of our lack of belief.



I didn't say all athiests are stupid I said all athiests are restricted.
We are no more restricted as someone who believes in God/gods. Why is having no belief in the existence of God/gods restrictive?

Dude...

(#1, I'm a Christian, but please don't flame because I'm not here to talk about me.)

How hard is this: An athiest doesn't believe in a God. PERIOD. That doesn't mean the athiest can't live a fulfilled life. They can be happy, have happy moments, have great beliefs, find themselves, accomplish goals, and live their life just like everyone else. How fucking hard is that? How can you seriously say an athiest's life is more pointless than a believer's? We both live here. We both die here. And neither of us know what comes after that.

Wow, I never post in MGCBtSOoYG, but this thread - and the ignorance it's loaded with - just pisses me off.

OP:

He seems to have a very limited knowledge of philosophies out there.

He either holds the dogma of "spirituality" being positive

or

He's unable to accept the possibility that he might just die and stop existing.



This kind of thinking lacks any form of skepticism when it comes to one's own views. He's built on his human instincts and own ideas of positivity.

I find it funny how he describes spirituality as having a euphoric feeling to it, when he doesn't really appear to be that happy with anything.

I don't follow atheism, due to being an absurd agnostic.

Atheism can be euphoric, just view life as one big cycle that you shall always be a part of. Think of nature as beautiful instead of associating it with boring and dull scientists.

It's all about you view the world and how things make you FEEL - like how this guy feels special and euphoric when he has his "visions" (probably because he fails to make his own life interesting)

But he's not really thinking it through, is he?

He implies atheism is a philosophy of angst when in the face of death - claiming that the materialist view will only leave you depressed in your final minutes.

If he goes on to some spiritual connection, that shall happen.

If all we have is this life, then the spiritualist shall have done nothing but delude himself (though he would've been supposedly happy)

Some of you havn't thought about this either, if for instance there is a life after this, regardless if there's a God or not, what's the point in athiesm if in the end your going to just be permanantly GONE? Therefore there's no harm in not being athiest. If there really is nothing when you die-then it doesn't matter if you were religious or not. If there is something after you die-then it might make a difference. So you really have nothing to lose not being athiest.

Also my life is full of activity, and it's very interesting, science itself is what led me to study religion, and then studying religion led me to spirituality, so now I'm part spiritual, and part scientific. There's so many things that human's havn't even begun to comprehend in reality (even what reality is itself), the likelyhood of non-athiestic thought would most likely be a wise choice considering losing nothing-and maybe gaining something.

Also, to above, not all athiests see the world as their last chance to view everything (therefore respecting everything) there are many who simply say who gives a fuck since they think they won't matter anyway... Like I said earlier, everyones viewpoint is different, athiests, or non-athiests.

And to another guy who posted up there, I'm not fucking talking about religion so don't speak as if I am, I'm talking about spirituality, this doesn't involve worshipping or the need to believe in God's, etc. Only to believe in your own existence being more complex then what you see with your eyes (such as seeing bacteria, but 500 years ago we had no fucking clue such a thing could even exist)

And no I'm not biased towards religion either, someone stated how many religious people don't meditate as well or believe in it, well I'd call them an idiot just along with any athiests, but in spirituality meditation is a prerequisite. (most of the time or if you want to further yourself), and NEVER would I promote any kind of fucking spiritual program where people try and make money off of teaching this kind of thing to people-which goes to athiests making useless books, and religious people making useless books (some books from either side do have useful information-but the majority now days are just so fucking redundent...)


The reason why I'm saying spirituality has no restrictions because it allows you to surpass in meditation (regardless if spirituality actually is real, it then gives you the mental illusion if it isn't) of going past a certain barrier allowing your body to go in a more beneficial state.

In athiesm you can not believe in any kind of spiritual form, or God. If you try and find evidence of it, you can't use a more advanced instrument (your brain), and I find a majority of athiestic members now days to be just as bad as alot of christians, their sticking to their idea's, regardless of what comes along.

I didn't get biased towards spirituality through other people, I got biased through self-experience, which is personal truth, and personal truth is the only real truth to a individual. (Which the thought of personal truth came from one of my friends-which is athiest when I was debating about this with him.)

(it's funny, scraff just gave me neg rep for "not knowing what the definition of athiesm is" before I could post, yet I have positive rep from someone else in a different subject for "Pointing out errors and encouraging individual research")

Your talking as if people are forced into atheism through lies and peer pressure.

People make an active choice not to believe in a deity, it's not a dogma based belief system (unless you count logicality as dogma, which I do, but that's beside the point)

You're actually just as bigoted as some of these atheists you've spoken to. You're like NOI when they call white people racist.

But seriously, there is absolutely no reason why the universe can't just exist, considering what limited knowledge we have.

Some of you havn't thought about this either, if for instance there is a life after this, regardless if there's a God or not, what's the point in athiesm if in the end your going to just be permanantly GONE?
It's you who hasn't thought about this. The 'point' in atheism is that there is no evidence of any gods or an afterlife. If you're only believing in God/gods because you have a childish need to believe you'll live forever without your brain and body, then your theism has nothing at all do do with finding truth.


Therefore there's no harm in not being athiest.
Not necessarily true, since belief that prayers work, God wants people to kill others, etc., has caused all sorts of harm. There's no harm in believing in flying pigs either, but it has nothing to do with finding truth and has no basis in critical thinking.


If there really is nothing when you die-then it doesn't matter if you were religious or not. If there is something after you die-then it might make a difference. So you really have nothing to lose not being athiest.
So you think atheists are supposed to try to fool themselves into believing in an invisible sky fairy when their intellects have come to the conclusion that they need some evidence to back up this incredible claim?

Also my life is full of activity, and it's very interesting, science itself is what led me to study religion, and then studying religion led me to spirituality, so now I'm part spiritual, and part scientific.
And part retarded. How did science lead you to study religion? What the fuck kind of education do you have in science? What scientific insight lead you to believe that God/gods exist or that you'll live for eternity?

There's so many things that human's havn't even begun to comprehend in reality (even what reality is itself), the likelyhood of non-athiestic thought would most likely be a wise choice considering losing nothing-and maybe gaining something.
You're sounding like a broken record with this "might as well believe in God" Pascal's wager type bullshit.

Also, to above, not all athiests see the world as their last chance to view everything (therefore respecting everything) there are many who simply say who gives a fuck since they think they won't matter anyway... Like I said earlier, everyones viewpoint is different, athiests, or non-athiests.
I have no idea what point you're trying to make. Are you still in grammar school?

And to another guy who posted up there, I'm not fucking talking about religion so don't speak as if I am, I'm talking about spirituality, this doesn't involve worshipping or the need to believe in God's, etc. Only to believe in your own existence being more complex then what you see with your eyes (such as seeing bacteria, but 500 years ago we had no fucking clue such a thing could even exist)
And this has what to do with believing in an afterlife? If you believe their is an afterlife without God/gods, what's the harm in not believing in one since there is no evidence for one? Without a god to punish one for not believing, won't atheists get that same afterlife too?

I'd really like an answer to that one since you're making no sense here, but I'm sure you'll ignore all my questions again.

In athiesm you can not believe in any kind of spiritual form, or God. If you try and find evidence of it, you can't use a more advanced instrument (your brain), and I find a majority of athiestic members now days to be just as bad as alot of christians, their sticking to their idea's, regardless of what comes along.
Sticking to their ideas? What evidence do you have that atheists are more close minded than you? Regardless of what comes along? What has come along that should have changed atheist minds?



(it's funny, scraff just gave me neg rep for "not knowing what the definition of athiesm is" before I could post, yet I have positive rep from someone else in a different subject for "Pointing out errors and encouraging individual research")
Hilarious.

Religion cheapens life because it distracts you from the goodness and value available to one as a person in this world, for the hollow promise of the next.

Atheism reminds you just how goddamn important everything is.

Religion improves life for a whole lot of people. Not saying that atheism doesn't. But think about for instance all those people who have converted to a faith in prison. Religion doesn't distract people from life in the now. They are here in the now and because of their faith and moral code they attempt to live it to the best. Most religious people arn't just waiting to die. Alot of religious people question their faith. There are a whole lot of people who are mystics and don't really fall under religious classification and believe it is a negative system. For alot of mystics they have all the evidence they need in their mind for the afterlife. Some see and talk with visions. Doesn't matter if you think they are insane. They have evidence right in front of them. But you could do a scientific study i'm sure that would show overall religious faith improves a persons life. It's just the way things work. Religion for alot of people = personal peace. Mystical experience = evidence. Not for you. And it's good to question. But these people question too. They arn't idiot sheep they are intelligent people. Some making the decision to become religious even after a life of heavy skepticism. Some born into religion questioning their whole life. All kinds of people make up this earth and a good number of them have faith. I would hardly say it cheapens life. It improves it a great deal for countless people.

Religion improves life for a whole lot of people.
So does chasing after Bigfoot.


Not saying that atheism doesn't.
There ya go.


But think about for instance all those people who have converted to a faith in prison. Religion doesn't distract people from life in the now.
Sure it does. If you are spending time focusing on the afterlife, you are distracted from the here and now.


They are here in the now and because of their faith and moral code they attempt to live it to the best.
They wouldn't exist without faith in beings which there is no evidence for?


Most religious people arn't just waiting to die.
Most people aren't just waiting to die.

Alot of religious people question their faith.
Well, that's a start.

But you could do a scientific study i'm sure that would show overall religious faith improves a persons life.
So? Who's to say those people wouldn't have their life improved if they focused on something else? Scientologists may be the happiest people on Earth; that doesn't mean Xenu exists.


Mystical experience = evidence. Not for you.
Rumpelstiltskin is evidence that straw can be spun in to gold. Not for you.

I would hardly say it cheapens life. It improves it a great deal for countless people.
Whether they are happier in any way because of a belief in an afterlife and God/gods is not socratic was getting at when he said religion cheapens life.

Delusional thoughts that one is immortal cheapens life because life becomes less important when you think things get much better when you die, this life is only a test, etc. Look at the actions of a suicide bomber. Look at the actions of a religious nut job parents that doesn't get medical attention for their sick child. Look at preachers on TV that actually say that we have nothing to worry about with regards to the environment/climate because god will take care of it because extinction of humans via that route is not part of the Big Plan. Beliefs based on zero evidence that you live for ever does cheapen the existence of this limited life which is infinitely more precious than the delusional would like to believe.

Religion cheapens life because it distracts you from the goodness and value available to one as a person in this world, for the hollow promise of the next.

Atheism reminds you just how goddamn important everything is.

This is completely true. -----------------------------------------------------------

If an atheist goes kills someone and has no guilt for killing the person that just means he is missing some superego or was nutured into not having one. Many people use religion as the guideline for what to do and not to do in respects to morals.

Now i call that weak-mindedness when you're not judge what right and wrong. I praise religion for being around earlier so we can now live in a civil society. This is one of the strongest arguments ive seen against athests but thats only because you bash then 3 times a line, the content has no meaning, fail.

First off it doesn't matter what I believe or what you believe. Also the here and now. This world. Is incredibly important to the relegious person.

Just because we say these things are delusions doesn't make it so. Alot of people actually believe in an afterlife. Some believe it because they have actually talked with beings that tell them and show them it is so. Now it doesn't matter if you think this is a delusion or not. To the mystic and to the shaman these visions are just as real as the world where the computer sits in front of you. They have 100% proof of an afterlife because it is part of their world. Also alot of these people are not what you would traditionaly consider insane and every human can access this part of their brain. You can use drugs, hypnotism, meditation and other techniques. Heaven and Hell are quite real places in the human conciousness. Aldous Huxley talks about this in Heaven and Hell.

I'm sure you can debate that. But like I said it's completly irrelevant what you believe to these people.

But as far as being a good person goes religions will without a doubt help you out. The outer and inner world. You can throw out all these examples of nut jobs but that is just what they are nut jobs and exceptions to the rule. Most peoples lives improve when they find god. There beliefs shape the way they interact with the world. They treat other people with respct and just like you can use examples of religious nut jobs others can throw out examples of people lıke Mother Terrissa (sp) who because of religion have reached and helped more people. There are more examples but İ can,t thınk of any. The nice old church going lady is more common then the fanatical whack job. Since you believe it's a delusion you have a bias. You couldn't see how it could help anyone because they are stuck in some belief about an afterlife and that influences their whole life in your opinion. Well it doesn't. Like I said they live here and now. Just because they have a belief in an afterlife that alot of them actually question their entire life doesn't mean that their life is somehow cheapened. Or that life becomes less precious because they hold a belief. They still live their life just like you and the day to day is just as precious and important. They strive to be great people now and live their lives to the best. I do not see how this cheapens their experience or the world experience even if what they believe is false.

Edit

To yango wango:

It's true religion can improve a person's life - but I've never met a Christian that truly questioned themselves and everything they believed in.

But I'm fine with Religion, as long as they don't push their beliefs on other people (which would include their children) or try to justify actions that hurt other people.

atheism is a religion in itself

"atheism is a religion in itself"

That's like saying bald is a hair colour, or off is a TV station. You're a dumb motherfucker.

"But you could do a scientific study i'm sure that would show overall religious faith improves a persons life."

Such studies have been done, and overall the less religious a nation is, the higher it's quality of life.

First off it doesn't matter what I believe or what you believe.
Then why are you bothering writing your beliefs down on this forum? Because you think your opinion doesn't matter? You're not fooling anyone.

Just because we say these things are delusions doesn't make it so.
So we shouldn't criticize others that have far out beliefs with no evidence, right? Great. You live by that code and I'll live by mine.

Alot of people actually believe in an afterlife.
And I guess that makes those beliefs so, eh?

Some believe it because they have actually talked with beings that tell them and show them it is so.
You actually believe that? You believe that people have talked to 'beings' that have told them and 'showed' them that it's so that there's an afterlife? Good for you.

Now it doesn't matter if you think this is a delusion or not. To the mystic and to the shaman these visions are just as real as the world where the computer sits in front of you. They have 100% proof of an afterlife because it is part of their world.
100% proof of an afterlife, eh? An afterlife is part of their world? Again, you want to believe that, good for you.

Also alot of these people are not what you would traditionaly consider insane
Oh, well as long as they're not traditionally insane, I guess it's okay.

and every human can access this part of their brain. You can use drugs, hypnotism, meditation and other techniques.
And then you'll have 100% proof that visions are an actual reflection of reality- terrific!

Heaven and Hell are quite real places in the human conciousness. Aldous Huxley talks about this in Heaven and Hell.
Oh, well if someone talked about it in a book, then you have me convinced.

You can throw out all these examples of nut jobs but that is just what they are nut jobs and exceptions to the rule. Most peoples lives improve when they find god. There beliefs shape the way they interact with the world. They treat other people with respct and just like you can use examples of religious nut jobs others can throw out examples of people lıke Mother Terrissa (sp) who because of religion have reached and helped more people.
First of all, if someone needs religion to do nice things for other people, something's really wrong with that person. People that I know, do nice things because it feels good to be a good person and help others. Humans are social creatures and being good to others is evolutionary beneficial rather than being a prick.

Secondly, Mother Theresa was a piece of shit. If you're interested in learning about what a phony she really was, here's a link to start you off. You can Google for more info if you're interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3tUuA7WBRE&mode=related&search=

There are more examples but İ can,t thınk of any.
HAH!


Since you believe it's a delusion you have a bias.
And everything you believe makes you biased too, right?

You couldn't see how it could help anyone because they are stuck in some belief about an afterlife and that influences their whole life in your opinion.
Strawman argument. I never said that delusional beliefs don't help make one happy or influence their life in other positive ways.

Just because they have a belief in an afterlife that alot of them actually question their entire life doesn't mean that their life is somehow cheapened.
Read my post again.

atheism is a religion in itself

Is not believing in Santa Claus a religion? Not believing something is not a religion. A religion is a set of specific fundamental beliefs and practices usually regarding superhuman agency, i.e., God. Not believing in God/gods is not a religion. Mere theism is not even a religion. In other words, believing that a god exists is not a religion unless there are fundamental beliefs and practices to go with it.

Is not believing in Santa Claus a religion? Not believing something is not a religion. A religion is a set of specific fundamental beliefs and practices usually regarding superhuman agency, i.e., God. Not believing in God/gods is not a religion. Mere theism is not even a religion. In other words, believing that a god exists is not a religion unless there are fundamental beliefs and practices to go with it.

i dont know what im trying to say

never mind what i said

To yango wango:

It's true religion can improve a person's life - but I've never met a Christian that truly questioned themselves and everything they believed in.



I did, and science plus religion led me to spirituality, I can't give a full post right now though, I'll leave one later...

Then why are you bothering writing your beliefs down on this forum? Because you think your opinion doesn't matter? You're not fooling anyone.


So we shouldn't criticize others that have far out beliefs with no evidence, right? Great. You live by that code and I'll live by mine.


And I guess that makes those beliefs so, eh?


You actually believe that? You believe that people have talked to 'beings' that have told them and 'showed' them that it's so that there's an afterlife? Good for you.


100% proof of an afterlife, eh? An afterlife is part of their world? Again, you want to believe that, good for you.


Oh, well as long as they're not traditionally insane, I guess it's okay.


And then you'll have 100% proof that visions are an actual reflection of reality- terrific!


Oh, well if someone talked about it in a book, then you have me convinced.


First of all, if someone needs religion to do nice things for other people, something's really wrong with that person. People that I know, do nice things because it feels good to be a good person and help others. Humans are social creatures and being good to others is evolutionary beneficial rather than being a prick.

Secondly, Mother Theresa was a piece of shit. If you're interested in learning about what a phony she really was, here's a link to start you off. You can Google for more info if you're interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3tUuA7WBRE&mode=related&search=


HAH!



And everything you believe makes you biased too, right?


Strawman argument. I never said that delusional beliefs don't help make one happy or influence their life in other positive ways.


Read my post again.

No im saying my opinion doesnt matter because like yours it is biased and also irrelevant to the shaman in their actions and beliefs and reality. Of course my opinion matters to me but I am open to alot of ideas and dont believe I have the answers.
We should critisize beliefs if they are harmfull. What I am saying of course contrary to what you believe is that religion is not only a harmless thing but positive for the human race. Actually this is false. I believe religion does have the ability to be a negative institution. But anything can be if it's interpreted wrong. I think most religious people use it in such a way that it is a positive force. It is a minority who abuse it and shape the world in a negative way because of it. Religion and spirituality itself is only a danger in the hands of certain people. In the hands of most people it is a tool of positive force. And this is true for everything. Reason was both a negative force and a positive force in the french revolution. Just the same as religion. Just depends on how it is used.

So in a sense I do believe that people have talked to beings. What these beings are I dont know. I definitly dont believe in the exact religious sense of them. All religions and beliefs in an afterlife come from them though like an archetype. We should focus on this archetype. Back when Aldous Huxley wrote heaven and hell he didnt know where the visions coriginated from but he hoped people would work together and try to understand. Im sure people have. I havnt read further yet but I plan to look deeper into this and if you want to ignore this knowledge you go ahead. I dont know in detail what you believe about the visions people have or the shamanic experience perhaps you would like to share. If these people arnt traditionaly insane then I would lıke to know the causes of the visionary experience. What purpous it serves the human race. Because it obviously does. Look at the influence of the shaman and religion on society. Even if it is a delusion it's pretty amazing that these delusional visions appeared and shaped the entire human race for thousands of years in an effective way don't you think? I welcome your opinions.

People dont need religion to be nice. It helps though. It can be a guide. And like I said religion can really help people in a dark place like say convicts. I cant watch that video right because of the computer i'm on. I wouldnt show so much contempt if I was you about me not being able to think of examples about religious people being a positive force in the world. Im not going to go and find them for you either you and me both know they are out there and plenty of them. Even on smaller scale from day to day these people create positivity. I just used mother Terresa as an example all would recognize I dont actually know much at all about her.

So basicaly religion comes from somewhere. It's not something some people just made up to control people. The visionary experience is a real part of human conciousness. That is where alot of religious knowledge comes from. Being a good person has nothing to do with religion but religion as an institution teaches being a good person to society. This is a positive thing. It just like any philosophy can be misinterpruted. Though for the most part it is not a bad thing. It is a way to get us all together. It unites people and teaches peace. Some people move beyond this and see all religions as a whole like mystics. And then there are people like you who are skeptics. Alot of people are skeptical even in their faith. Alot of scientists are religious.

To The OP:

Though you appear to have questioned beliefs involving god, you don't appear to have questioned your morals.

It feels like you have never questioned WHY love is good, or WHY friendship is good.

It seems you haven't even realised that reality is a concrete system that works perfectly, no matter what our perceptions of perfection are.

The concept of "spirituality" seems like it is positive out of pure illusion - like how punk rock is rebellious to bored teenagers.

I think no one is going to be convinced of your genuine skepticism until you actually post your "journey", I'm afraid.

To The OP:

Though you appear to have questioned beliefs involving god, you don't appear to have questioned your morals.

It feels like you have never questioned WHY love is good, or WHY friendship is good.

It seems you haven't even realised that reality is a concrete system that works perfectly, no matter what our perceptions of perfection are.

The concept of "spirituality" seems like it is positive out of pure illusion - like how punk rock is rebellious to bored teenagers.

I think no one is going to be convinced of your genuine skepticism until you actually post your "journey", I'm afraid.



Jesus christ that's so much typing though :(
so fucking much to type....

Jesus christ that's so much typing though :(
so fucking much to type....

Work on an essay explaining it, then turn it into a blog, post it on several sites etc.

Unless, of course, you don't want to be taken seriously....

Work on an essay explaining it, then turn it into a blog, post it on several sites etc.

Unless, of course, you don't want to be taken seriously....

That's like me asking you for a book of your life story.

That's like me asking you for a book of your life story.

How about I explain to you how I became existentialist :) .



I once realised I was bored and served no real purpose in life. I felt that nothing was certain. This meant that my ideas might not be certain and my life might not be certain.

I looked into Descartes and his idea of how he thought he might not exist. He eventually concluded he does exist, but he only concluded this through a series of logical thoughts. He said how his mind might be deceiving him in perception and so forth - and this led me to think that logic might be a deception.

Of course, this is a paradox due to me having come up with this conclusion THROUGH my logic and THROUGH my mind. So, I decided to have faith in logic, due to it being inevitable. But I accept that the universe is ABSURD and I might be wrong, I might be right in every truth I hold.

What really pissed me off is that I discovered this philosophy already existed. It's called EXISTENTIALISM, or ABSURDISM. Reading some existentialist ideas, they appeared to be almost completely consistent with the thoughts I was having - so I now define myself as an existentialist.

So now, I ACCEPT that this is what I am and I am LIMITED in what I can do - but what I feel and what actions I take are still up to me.

So I feel OBLIGATED as a human to do what is best for humanity.

And I feel the purpose of life is to enjoy, experience and learn.

You all take things too seriously. The true fact of the matter is that God is standing right behind me and he says that he doesn't exist. What does this mean?

asdyas98ydas8ydas897d897a


GOD STOP PRESSING BUTTONS ON THE KEYBOARD YOU BIG LOSER

You all take things too seriously. The true fact of the matter is that God is standing right behind me and he says that he doesn't exist. What does this mean?

asdyas98ydas8ydas897d897a


GOD STOP PRESSING BUTTONS ON THE KEYBOARD YOU BIG LOSER

Yet another excellent post by Rizzo.

What does this mean?

It means you need better locks brother :D

Tell me more about this "astral projection"....I would like to try it myself...