Ok. You all seem to know what you're talking about (SOME OF YOU) so I pose a question; The bible states that it's not OK to kill? I've never read it but I'm guessing it is one of those deadly sins.

I don't believe in this heaven or hell situation either but for the sake of this lets pretend I do.

A normal person who kills is going to hell. Unless they do that B/S and ask God to forgive them. Basically you can get away with anything as long as you seek God's forgiveness? That's not the main question.

A normal person kills and he is going to hell.

What happens to those in the Army? Are they going to hell?

What about whom ever is in charge of putting people to death in prison?

I guess they need to revise that bible book again.

If people haven't distorted Jesus' message beyond recognition, the bible would say you shouldn't kill someone without their permission.

That's if their was such a thing as sin or hell. Even the pope once said their is no hell.

In the name of...

The prohibition is against murder, the killing of another with malice aforethought for personal gain.

Even Jesus told his followers to carry a sword, even if they had to sell everything to get one.

In the name of...

Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me!

You have to look deeper into the bible then just the English translation of the 10 commandments to understand it. The word that is translated to kill means neither kill nor murder, but something that has no direct translation.

If you look at the bible you see god instruct or approves of certain types of killing. Things like executions, defending yourself, and in certain cases even battle can be justified.

I would not consider capital punishment of a guilty man to be a sin looking at the bible, where it is in certain cases spoken of approvingly or commanded. So a man working executions for a prison might not be a sinner. But then it depends, is that man really a criminal. Biblically, could what he did be called a crime? You have to look deeper and really think upon it to reach a conclusion and its all about the circumstance.

Whether a soldier who kills is sinning is definitely more complex. Generally, it appears killing isn't "killing" as long as it is lawful or just. So that would depend on the war and more specifically the circumstances and victims.

Civilians, you're going to hell no doubt. There is no connection between anything The Lord instructs in the bible as to battle or killing that is justified and killing innocents.
Otherwise, its just hard to tell. The bible isn't a complete guidebook to life.

Ok. You all seem to know what you're talking about (SOME OF YOU) so I pose a question; The bible states that it's not OK to kill? I've never read it but I'm guessing it is one of those deadly sins.

I don't believe in this heaven or hell situation either but for the sake of this lets pretend I do.

A normal person who kills is going to hell. Unless they do that B/S and ask God to forgive them. Basically you can get away with anything as long as you seek God's forgiveness? That's not the main question.

A normal person kills and he is going to hell.

What happens to those in the Army? Are they going to hell?

What about whom ever is in charge of putting people to death in prison?

I guess they need to revise that bible book again.

Only those who reject the love of Jesus Christ will go to hell, this includes you.

All people have sinned, no one can earn salvation, it is a gift from God.

Ephesians 2:8-9
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

I'm not 100% sure whether killing in war or as an executioner is sinful or not. God ordered the Israelites to kill their enemies, but Jesus seemed pretty anti-war. Either way, God will forgive you if you invite his son to become your lord & saviour.

All people have sinned, no one can earn salvation, it is a gift from God.

Ephesians 2:8-9
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

There are enough verses that state faith is not enough and works are necessary for salvation:

Psalm 62:12
For you render to each one according to his works.

Proverbs 10:16
The labour of the righteous tendeth to life: the fruit of the wicked to sin.

Jeremiah 17:10
I the Lord ... give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Ezekiel 18:27
When the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness ... and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul.

Matthew 5:20
Except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 12:37
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

Matthew 19:17
If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 25:41-46
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Luke 10:26-28
He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Romans 2:6, 13
Who will render to each one according to his deeds. ... For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified.

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the jugment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

2 Corinthians 11:15
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

Philippians 2:12
"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

James 2:14
What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

James 2:17
Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

James 2:21-25
Was not Abraham our father justified by works? You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. Likewise, was not Rabab the harlot also justified by works? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

1 Peter 1:17
The Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work.

Revelation 2:23
I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Revelation 20:12-13
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life.

Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me!

Motherfucker!
Uggh!

So, coincidentally, the bible knew of fourth coming wars and basically tilted God's judgement in our favor!

It's ok to kill if it's lawful. There we go, law and religion cross again.

So, coincidentally, the bible knew of fourth coming wars and basically tilted God's judgement in our favor!

It's ok to kill if it's lawful. There we go, law and religion cross again.

I was under the assumption that one must redeem their immortal soul in order to even accept the gift of salvation, but that's another matter.

I recently purchased a book on the WWII D-Day landings, and this thread made me think of an extract about the army chaplains dealing with - literally thousands - of soldiers in a spiritual dillema over killing others.

The answer was that it was 'okay' to kill in order to protect your country.

Naturally, this confused the fuck out of me, HOWEVER - i did come to the conclusion that PERHAPS the act of service to the crown (i'm not sure how you yanks felt about it) was in itself an act of redemption, So therefore because you were prepared to sacrifice your life in an effort to save others, this must have counter-balanced the salvation/damnation problem.

I haven't a fucking clue whether i'm right or not, oc.

One of my fvorite quotes from the CWG books is from, I think, book one, when God is quoted as saying "The Bible is not an authoritative source." Getting closer to topic, Xians seem to have an interestingly skewed approach to death, summed up in the quip "Everyone wants to go to heaven, but no one wants to die."

The whole question of death and killing, however, becomes meaningless when one realizes that death is an illusion. Our essential self is immortal, immutable, untouchable--as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, so to speak. Thus, you cannot, in any meaninglful sense, kill anyone or anything. What we commonly call death is merely a transition.

However, how and when we make that transition should be up to us, free will being paramount. To "kill" someone else is, at most, depriving him or her of their free will. This of course, happens every day in many ways-- that being the whole point of laws, social sanctions, peer pressure and so forth.

Whether this is "right" or "wrong" depends on one's prejudices, and the direction and extent of one's social conditioning.

Basically the bible is a tool for social order.

Is it ok to kill???

The bible will be translated by your shepard who will determine when it is ok to kill.

Basically controlling people to fight for you in the name of christ.

Tool for social order and nothing more. Unless you wish to learn more about astronomy. Then, the bible can teach you many things as can all adaptive pagan religions.

One of my fvorite quotes from the CWG books is from, I think, book one, when God is quoted as saying "The Bible is not an authoritative source." Getting closer to topic, Xians seem to have an interestingly skewed approach to death, summed up in the quip "Everyone wants to go to heaven, but no one wants to die."

The whole question of death and killing, however, becomes meaningless when one realizes that death is an illusion. Our essential self is immortal, immutable, untouchable--as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, so to speak. Thus, you cannot, in any meaninglful sense, kill anyone or anything. What we commonly call death is merely a transition.

However, how and when we make that transition should be up to us, free will being paramount. To "kill" someone else is, at most, depriving him or her of their free will. This of course, happens every day in many ways-- that being the whole point of laws, social sanctions, peer pressure and so forth.

Whether this is "right" or "wrong" depends on one's prejudices, and the direction and extent of one's social conditioning.

I appreciated this response. I don't believe in God (I don't know.), maybe I'm agnostic. Maybe we just wonder too much? It would be nice if there was something after death.