This will tie together, and I would like to hear opinions of "both" sides.

I'm a Christian, and when I say this, I'm not saying I'm perfect. When I say this, I'm saying I'm NOT perfect, and I realize my need for salvation from the sin that is ever present with me in my body. On to the point. When I came back to God, almost 3 years ago, or rather when God called me back unto Him, I didn't care who did what I was going after God. Starting in, I began to not do things simply because to me it was wrong, but those around me, IN CHURCH WITH ME would do those very things. I had a decision to make. 1. Give up and turn back to the way I was living because of the mindset, "their not REAL" OR 2. Keep my focus on Christ, who was and is perfect, and follow Him and His will for my life.

I kept pushing myself into Him. Rebellion against the world? Yeah, if that's what it was, then fine. If rebellion against the world is obedience to the Word then I'm going to obey the Word of God. I'm going to be real. If this means all my 'dignity' squashed, then so be it. Let it be trampled, and pressed! I love Jesus Christ with all my heart, body, soul, and might. I want Him more than anything, and yet I feel like maybe I've become to some what those I went to church with were to me.. a decision. I want to tell everyone, "Don't stumble over me, but Go with God." Without excusing my DUTY to God to represent Him, and my DEBT to you, to win some. But I need more than my own might to love Him the way He deserves to be loved. Furthermore, I need more than my own strength to love you guys the way you are loved.


Unbelievers say:
"Don't shove Christ down our throats."
and if they find a single flaw, "Hypocrite."
.................................................. .................
When you come to Christ the same friends who'll call you a hypocrite,
will offer you a joint. Why? It isn't because you want to see if your friend is the same, and unchanged, it's because you want to see that they aren't the same and have been changed, you want something real.

In writting this, I found several answers to many questions.

Christ's comission to believers/us is to reach out, to you, unbelievers, and win some. To show His love for you, to be able to do this requires so much more than our own strength. To go against HUMAN NATURE, and not REACT to actions, but be PROACTIVE toward every action. To "turn the other cheeck." To go "two miles" rather than one. To resist human nature to the point of pouring out our own blood, and to become like Christ, simply to show forth His undying, STILL LIVING love for a world that rejects Him to this day.

On to my question, and Please do oppose anything you don't agree with, backed up by why.

Why is it that you guys look at us, and not at Him, and expect us to be more than Human? Love is the highest way, and I believe that love is or should be the Christian endeavor, being that God is Love.

Why don't you believe? What has turned you away from Christ, the Church, and Christians? I want to know!


I believe it's because you love sinning more than the God that loves you.

I do not expect christians to be perfect or superhuman. I understand christianity to be a constant struggle to perfection. I get that.

I myself do not believe because I do not feel it. The fallacy of religion and its tenets are abound. There IS a motivating factor to controlling sheep through a meme complex. As a christian dont you HAVE to believe that certain other religions are wrong? Yet, they have survived to this day. People believe every bit as strongly as you do in thier faith. I think as a Christian you have to assume that these false religions are there b/c they give the MOST faithful and revered personal power over others. Not to even mention the billions and billions of tax free money.

That is not the reason for a disdain of christianity. I do not like christians b/c they are intolerant of others.

What part of this do christians NOT seem to get:

MY PERSONAL LIFE IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS, WHATSOEVER, SO LONG AS I CAUSE NO HARM TO ANOTHER!!!!!!

What is unclear there?

If I wanna fuck 3 chicks at the same time without being married....NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS......If I want to sit at home and blow my fucking brains out.....NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.......If I want to masterbate on Sunday morning to naked women fornicating then it is none of your business.

I do not expect christians to be perfect or superhuman. I understand christianity to be a constant struggle to perfection. I get that.

I myself do not believe because I do not feel it. The fallacy of religion and its tenets are abound. There IS a motivating factor to controlling sheep through a meme complex. As a christian dont you HAVE to believe that certain other religions are wrong? Yet, they have survived to this day. People believe every bit as strongly as you do in thier faith. I think as a Christian you have to assume that these false religions are there b/c they give the MOST faithful and revered personal power over others. Not to even mention the billions and billions of tax free money.

That is not the reason for a disdain of christianity. I do not like christians b/c they are intolerant of others.

What part of this do christians NOT seem to get:

MY PERSONAL LIFE IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS, WHATSOEVER, SO LONG AS I CAUSE NO HARM TO ANOTHER!!!!!!

What is unclear there?

If I wanna fuck 3 chicks at the same time without being married....NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS......If I want to sit at home and blow my fucking brains out.....NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.......If I want to masterbate on Sunday morning to naked women fornicating then it is none of your business.

Christians don't want to know your business. My goodness, we have a human nature we fight against too. And the Struggle isn't to be PERFECT, it's to KNOW HIM more and deeper. The fact is, we recognize fornication, adultery, lying and the like as sin. As the very things that separate man from God, and Jesus says that whoever LOOKS upon a woman to lust after her has commited the sin in His heart, pointing out that the issues of life, come from the heart. If my heart sees fornication as sin, then everytime I look upon a man to lust after Him, I'm going to judge it as sin, and repent and capture these thoughts and bring them into the obedience of the Word of God. (Take a moment to see that.) Like punishing a child.

God knows your sins, and He knows the only way to revert this is for you to Know Him and be known By Him.

Why do people think they have to be perfect to come to Christ? He takes you just as you are, but if you've had an encounter with Him and want more, those sins that controlled you will not controll you, you'll begin to allow God access into your life and allow Him to lead and guide and controll you, and You'll want Him to.

Many years ago I awoke in a police cell with the world's worst hangover, a cup of the world's worst coffee and the news that i was facing life for counts of murder/attempted murder.

Not the best morning of my life.

My wife was expecting our second child and I realised in that moment I had fucked things up...a bit.

So I did what countless others have done in such situations. I made a deal with God. None of this un-biblical crap about 'letting Jesus into your heart'.

A deal plain and simple. He keeps me out of prison and I'll try doing things his way.

I was taken to appear before the bail judge, handcuffed, under armed guard and with the warning that if i tried to flee they would shoot to kill.

Which was funny because if I'd wanted to I could have killed the detective who said that on the spot before his gun had cleared leather (yes I was that good).

Anyway, the police escort got to sit there and listened in jaw dropping amazement as the judge let me walk, no bail just some rather mild conditions-surrender my passport, stay out of bars and attend AA.

I walked out of the chambers and it started raining. I tell you, rain has never felt so good.

Now when I make a deal I keep it and so I set about trying to find out what God's way was. What he wanted.

I went from group to group and church to church learning all I could. Didn't matter if the group was considered 'beyond the pail' by other christians. Which is partly why my knowledge of christian 'sects' beats most people here.

And you know what?

I learnt I don't like christians, and I especially don't like how they treat the bible. For a faith that is supposed to be centred on Truth...

SO to answer your question, christians put me off christians.

Sure I'm commanded to love them but ain't no fucking commandment that I have to fucking like them!


*edit , just to end the story: It took over a year for the case to come to trial. I went into court and pleaded guilty to two charges of intent to murder/attempted murder and also a count of armed robbery.

The DA wanted 7 -life.

I walked out with 2 years on probation.

Oh and to those christians here, one word of advice from my long search for god.

Be EXCEEDINGLY fucking careful what you pray for. If he gives then he tends to give you EXACTLY what you ask for.

I'm going to say this, because of your last statement to 'Christians'.

1. The Devil hears prayers too.
2. When you pray, you have to pray His will.
Example: You don't pray and believe God for a successful drug deal, and freak out when you get caught by the police and looked baffled trying to figure out what went wrong. (You broke the law and God can't bless that!)
3. This guy threw up a fleece,and when you're young in Christ you can get by with that for a period of time, but when you know better, you know better. God had mercy on him, and he thought he made a deal. God is simply merciful and gracious. And what God did for this guy in his situation is really what He did for us in our situations. We broke the law and deserve to go to hell, but because of Christ, we're off da hook, YO. If we believe. I'm sure within a years time in jail this guy, learned to BELIEVE GOD and exercise his faith in God to get him out of jail. God has mercy upon Him, an us. Let us not take His mercy for granted.

Many years ago I awoke in a police cell with the world's worst hangover, a cup of the world's worst coffee and the news that i was facing life for counts of murder/attempted murder.

[...]

I walked out with 2 years on probation.

Wow, nice story. :)

The Devil hears prayers too.

Really? Is there any scripture to back that up?

I'm going to say this, because of your last statement to 'Christians'.

1. The Devil hears prayers too.

If you knew your bible then you wouldn't come out with rubbish like this.

Whether the Devil hears prayers is a bit moot as I don't believe in some Buffy style Uber Bad. Partly as I can't find him in the Bible but mainly because if if I want to see the 'devil' then all any of us has to do is look in the mirror. ALL the evil I have ever seen was done by humans choosing to do it.

I don't need the excuse of a devil. The evil I do is mine.

None of the christian crap about 'satan tempted me and i was weak' or 'the devil made me do it'.



2. When you pray, you have to pray His will. . Why God grants a prayer is something that you can't know. Who can know the mind of God? And the bible makes no such prescriptions about what we can pray for. You don't know why God needed me out of prison. Although shortly after that I saved a small child's life..maybe he put me there for that, who knows? (and yes I am being serious, that kid would have been dead if I hadn't been there at that precise moment), maybe that kid will grow up to be something really special or maybe his great grand kids will...cos God tends to think longterm.

*edit I shouldn't have just said 'needed me', obviously he didn't and doesn't. But maybe men prepared to give up their own life, in a heartbeat, to save a 'dirty immigrant brat' were a bit in short supply at that time and in that place.

Maybe that was it, I don't know, and neither can you.

(You broke the law and God can't bless that!) Now your ignorance of the bible really shows. God can bless what the fuck he likes. He is omnipotent...ya know? ..means he can do anything he wants.

And the bible makes very clear that he blesses the breaking of man's law if the cause is righteous. Not claiming my particular cause was righteous , mind.

Or do you think he didn't bless the few brave German christians who hid Jews during the WW2? They were directly breaking the Law of the land.

Don't try and prescribe what he can and can't do...thats just typical christian arrogance.