http://www.misericordia.edu/users/davies/thomas/Trans.htm

thoughts

Looks like some interesting stuff in here. Here's one I like.

Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is within you and it is outside you.

When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

Otherwise, a lot of it seems like it is also in other parts of the bible.

14 Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will bring sin upon yourselves, and if you pray, you will be condemned, and if you give to charity, you will harm your spirits.

When you go into any region and walk about in the countryside, when people take you in, eat what they serve you and heal the sick among them.

After all, what goes into your mouth will not defile you; rather, it's what comes out of your mouth that will defile you."

I think this one stresses the importance of doing as a method of knowing yourself.

The gospel of Thomas resonates with me.

Too bad so much politics and power-tripping went into choosing the "official" gospels.

I don't have time now to check the link and we don't do 'linky + 'debate' ' type threads.

However there are in the main two schools of thought about the Logion.

1. Its a late gnostic work and has no real bearing on the bible or our understanding of the gospels. WHich is sorta the view catholic scholars take.

2. Most serious theologians these days subscribe to the other view, that the Logion or parts of them at any rate PREDATE the synoptic gospels and are as near as we are likely to get to original 'Jesus Tone'.

Personally I love the book. And I'd urge anyone interested in it to read Robinson on it.

Bumped.

The book is a Gnostic Book... All resonate with the Gnostic Wisdom Teacher Christ. Personally I like this one:

His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?"

"It will not come by watching for it. It will not be said, 'Look, here!' or 'Look, there!' Rather, the Father's kingdom is spread out upon the earth, and people don't see it." - Saying 113 - This translation makes it clear that the kingdom of heaven is NOT in the future but is spread out along the earth right now, the apocalypse already happened and everything has been revealed to those who bother to seek for it!

Its sad that most of the religious powers that be are so ready to condemn it and other gnostic works. The Gospel of Thomas has so many sayings found in the bible itself that its believed even by scholars as a source of sayings to apply to the bible, so even the Bible has a lot gnostic of Gnostic flavorings.

I personally feel that Gnosticism was not attacked for religious reasons but for sociopolitical reasons: How are you suppose to control the masses unless they are ignorant? Something the gnostic is firmly against being... Both spiritually and physically...

Annnd--bumped again.

Interesting how translations differ. The Nag Hammadi library version interests in the use of the term 'the all'. For anyone who has read The Kybalion you will be familiar with the term used as a reference to the divine oneness of all that is.

"(2) Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the All."


"(67) Jesus said, "If one who knows the all still feels a personal deficiency, he is completely deficient." "


"(77) Jesus said, "It is I who am the light which is above them all. It is I who am the all. From me did the all come forth, and unto me did the all extend. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there." "


(Gospel of Thomas - Lambdin Translation http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html )

Cheers:)

can you AT LEAST put a brief synopsis of the link?? I hate link then debate...quote the entire thing and place it here

can you AT LEAST put a brief synopsis of the link?? I hate link then debate...quote the entire thing and place it here

Are you retarded? That's like asking for a summary of the bible.

Here's your summary: there's a "lost" book of the bible called the gospel of thomas, and in it, Jesus talked in very much a buddhist way.

Are you retarded? That's like asking for a summary of the bible.

Here's your summary: there's a "lost" book of the bible called the gospel of thomas, and in it, Jesus talked in very much a buddhist way.

Here is a summary of the bible

OT-Creation story, Noah, Moses, Ten commandments, and lots of blood and gore because people pissed off god

NT-Peace Love, Jesus, and all that Hippie Bullshit. And the Apocalypse

Here is a summary of the bible

OT-Creation story, Noah, Moses, Ten commandments, and lots of blood and gore because people pissed off god

NT-Peace Love, Jesus, and all that Hippie Bullshit. And the Apocalypse

Gospel of Thomas - very philosophical and interesting observations/reflections about life. You know, what the bible could have become without the bullshit? Yep, that's it right there.

Somebody please elucidate this text:

(23) Jesus said, "I shall choose you, one out of a thousand, and two out of ten thousand, and they shall stand as a single one."

Here is a summary of the bible

OT-Creation story, Noah, Moses, Ten commandments, and lots of blood and gore because people pissed off god

NT-Peace Love, Jesus, and all that Hippie Bullshit. And the Apocalypse

That's the commonly accepted version as presented by organised churchianity. Others see it like this:

OT God = Ego/Yaldaboath as described by a rebellious ego driven nation.

NT God = Eternity/Infinity/Awareness/Spirit dealing with individuated Souls/Christs.

From the first chapter the bible story is similar to the Baghvad Gita in presenting the struggle within humanity between those deluded by ego and those awakened to spirit! Ego creates the illusions of Maya, and the greatest of sufferings - blinded as to our actual nature and purpose. Spirit bequeaths awareness of eternal energy of which the body is a channel and receptacle of infinite ever changing existence cycling between form and formlessness. Human life and suffering involves the struggle between our ego (which seeks power and recognition, the reflection of it's creator Yaldaboath), and soul. The soul is the energetic record of the individuated existence of a fractal of the aggregate of being. A kind of cosmic recording of, amongst many other things, the DNA of your ancestors.

Ego/Yaldaboath is represented by the serpent of Eden, an allegorical character symbolising the morality of Ego/Yaldaboath. Ego seeks to delude those who are unconscious of their eternal being by creating temporary forms and calling that reality! The only reality is that which is eternal, which whilst it appears in many forms and infinite variety, is in science called energy. You and I are made of it. Every particle of our human being is composed of energy which science says is eternal. It can't be created nor can it be destroyed. That is what we are made of. Energy is known to science as both in material form and incorporeal, otherwise know as 'spirit'.

Knowing one's real, today, right now, present 'being' is composed of eternal energy - 'spirit', is a vision that dulls ego's lustre. Ego/Yaldaboath is certain of it's primacy, blind to the eternal, it sees only the temporary forms of those things it desires. Awaken to Spirit, become aware, see the infinite in the oneness of eternal energy. We, like waves on the ocean, temporal forms in the eternal, infinite, sea of awareness.

Cheers:)

Gospel of Thomas - very philosophical and interesting observations/reflections about life. You know, what the bible could have become without the bullshit? Yep, that's it right there.

Somebody please elucidate this text:

In the context it appears right after a passage that seems to be about removing the distinctions between individuals being analogous to "entering the kingdom"(a spiritual domain, not of this world, yet as close as your soul). Jesus is then made to say he will choose some 'disciples' from a crowd, a gathering, a number of one thousand, and others from ten thousand, and having been selectively chosen "they shall stand as a single one" gives me a picture of a team with one purpose. Seen in the context of entering the kingdom, the verse may be descriptive of the oneness experienced by those chosen members entering the kingdom, agreeing with a theme that appears often in gnostic literature.

Cheers:)

(49) Jesus said, "Blessed are the solitary and elect, for you will find the kingdom. For you are from it, and to it you will return."

(50) Jesus said, "If they say to you, 'Where did you come from?', say to them, 'We came from the light, the place where the light came into being on its own accord and established itself and became manifest through their image.' If they say to you, 'Is it you?', say, 'We are its children, we are the elect of the living father.' If they ask you, 'What is the sign of your father in you?', say to them, 'It is movement and repose.'"



repose: a state of quiet restfulness; peace or tranquillity.:)

Nice triple post.

Jesus said: "If the flesh came into being because of spirit, it is a wonder. But if the spirit came into being because of the body, it is a wonder of wonders. Indeed I am amazed at how this great wealth has made it's home in this poverty."

Cheers:)

Additional, complete gnostic texts. http://www.sacred-texts.com/gno/index.htm
I recommend the Pistis Sophia.

I also recommend the creation story Hypostasis of the Archons.
http://www.webcom.com/gnosis/naghamm/hypostas.html

Additional, complete gnostic texts. http://www.sacred-texts.com/gno/index.htm
I recommend the Pistis Sophia.

I also recommend the creation story Hypostasis of the Archons.
http://www.webcom.com/gnosis/naghamm/hypostas.html

Thanks. IMHO after reading both the versions mentioned above, those books seem written in some obscure, abstract metaphorical style. The Gospel of Thomas seems a lot more relevant. The Hypostasis of the Archons in particular would totally confuse anyone who tried to read it in any way literally. Not to say it does not contain gnosis, but it's not for the beginner:

It also must be kept in mind that the passage of time and translation into languages very different from the original have rendered many of these scriptures abstruse in style. Some of them are difficult reading, especially for those readers not familiar with Gnostic imagery, nomenclature and the like. Lacunae are also present in most of these scriptures -- in a few of the texts extensive sections have been lost due to age and deterioration of the manuscripts. The most readily comprehensible of the Nag Hammadi scriptures is undoubtedly The Gospel of Thomas, with The Gospel of Philip and the The Gospel of Truth as close seconds in order of easy comprehension. (These texts were all also thankfully very well preserved and have few lacunae.) http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.htmL
Ancient texts, whilst interesting, do not constitute anything more than being of interest, sometimes enlightening, however; the true appeal of gnosticism is in it's relevance to now and present, personal knowledge/gnosis:
The first essential characteristic of Gnosticism was introduced above: Gnosticism asserts that "direct, personal and absolute knowledge of the authentic truths of existence is accessible to human beings," and that the attainment of such knowledge is the supreme achievement of human life.
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhlintro.html

Gnosis was the creative experience of revelation, a rushing progression of understanding, and not a static creed. Carl Gustav Jung, the great Swiss psychologist and a life-long student of Gnosticism in its various historical permutations, affirms,

…We find in Gnosticism what was lacking in the centuries that followed: a belief in the efficacy of individual revelation and individual knowledge. This belief was rooted in the proud feeling of man's affinity with the gods....

In his study, The American Religion, noted literary critic Harold Bloom suggests a second characteristic of Gnosticism that might help us conceptually circumscribe its mysterious heart. Gnosticism, says Bloom, "is a knowing, by and of an uncreated self, or self-within-the self, and [this] knowledge leads to freedom...."9 Primary among all the revelatory perceptions a Gnostic might reach was the profound awakening that came with knowledge that something within him was uncreated. The Gnostics called this "uncreated self" the divine seed, the pearl, the spark of knowing: consciousness, intelligence, light. And this seed of intellect was the self-same substance of God. It was man's authentic reality, the glory of humankind and divinity alike. If woman or man truly came to gnosis of this spark, she understood that she was truly free: Not contingent, not a conception of sin, not a flawed crust of flesh, but the stuff of God, and the conduit of God's immanent realization. There was always a paradoxical cognizance of duality in experiencing this "self-within-a-self". How could it not be paradoxical: By all rational perception, man clearly was not God, and yet in essential truth, was Godly. This conundrum was a Gnostic mystery, and its knowing was their treasure.
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhlintro.html


Cheers:)

2. Most serious theologians these days subscribe to the other view, that the Logion or parts of them at any rate PREDATE the synoptic gospels and are as near as we are likely to get to original 'Jesus Tone'.

Q Gospel?