So recently my family asked me why I don't go to church anymore, so I came out of the closet and tried to tell them why (evolution, deformities, blah blah blah) Anyway my mom and dad keep bugging me about it and look on me with some sort of disdain like I'm lacking some sort of virtue or missing out on something, they're making me feel bad.

When I told them my reasons they got slightly angered, especially my dad. He said something along the lines of,"You shouldn't be questioning God like this!"

Help? Advice? I'm sure there are people here with religious family members.

What's worked for me with my traditional Catholic family is that you need to first sit down with them and tell them exactly what you believe and why. They're your family and you should be able to communicate with them honestly. Also remember that they're still religious, so don't criticise religion, just make sure they understand that it's not for you.

Move out if you're old enough.

You can't change their minds.

What's worked for me with my traditional Catholic family is that you need to first sit down with them and tell them exactly what you believe and why. They're your family and you should be able to communicate with them honestly. Also remember that they're still religious, so don't criticise religion, just make sure they understand that it's not for you.

I didn't sit down with them and talk about it, I should have though. I just gave an answer. And although I didn't yell or be rude, I think that they still were offended since Christianity is a quite sensitive topic for them.

Move out if you're old enough.

You can't change their minds.

I'm not old enough. :(


I just want to get along with them.

If there troubled by it thats there problem. Just let hem know exactly what you believe and leave it at that.

You can't expect this kid to just say what he thinks and never turn back. This is his family, and he loves these people... and I know how it can suck to hurt the people you love with this kind of thing.

I think you should look in the other thread to my advice there.

http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2049910

I would like to offer the same to you. If you ever need to talk about it... I'm here for ya.

One thing that might help, that i explain in the above thread, would be to let them know you still believe in the moral teachings of Jesus Christ. It's just one step... but in my experience it makes you look less "rebellious" and more mature about it. Idk. Read the other thread.

You can't expect this kid to just say what he thinks and never turn back. This is his family, and he loves these people... and I know how it can suck to hurt the people you love with this kind of thing.

I think you should look in the other thread to my advice there.

http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2049910

I would like to offer the same to you. If you ever need to talk about it... I'm here for ya.

One thing that might help, that i explain in the above thread, would be to let them know you still believe in the moral teachings of Jesus Christ. It's just one step... but in my experience it makes you look less "rebellious" and more mature about it. Idk. Read the other thread.

I didn't see that when I made this thread, good post. Yes I definitely still believe in some of the moral teachings of Jesus like forgiveness, love and the like. It would really help, I'm thinking, to tell them this because they probably have the pre-concieved notion like most Christians that people without Christ are immoral scum.

I didn't see that when I made this thread, good post. Yes I definitely still believe in some of the moral teachings of Jesus like forgiveness, love and the like. It would really help, I'm thinking, to tell them this because they probably have the pre-concieved notion like most Christians that people without Christ are immoral scum.

Yes... It's just hard sometimes for religious people to comprehend that you are able to live a good and moral life, without God in it. That's not necessarily their fault... but it is the way they've been trained to think.

Stay soft, and just let them know that you believe you still can live a meaningful life without God in it. You believe in the moral teachings of Jesus, and are going to continue to live your life in accordance to them.

They could set out to make your life a living hell... and if they do this, my best advice would for you to use this to PROVE you're the one acting like Christ here. Be calm and gentle... don't yell or resist. Softly say that you respect their beliefs, you just disagree with them, just don't turn this into an angsty teenage rebellious thing.

Let me know how things go.

Ugh, talked to family members on the phone questioning me and telling my to "return to God".

update:

The situation is not so tense anymore but I'm pretty sure they're not going to stop bugging me.

My family tells me it's quite sad that I've "rejected God's way" and have been telling me other various things of this sort like threats of hellfire.

They don't understand, they're not getting it, I can't explain as clear as I want either because I still have to translate what I say and I'm at a lack of words.

I'm just gonna tell them one more time I respect their beliefs and I want the same of my unbelief, will continue to be a good person, and answer them in a nice as possible way to what my reasons are.

Thanks for the advice everyone and Kazz.

"Everyone and Kazz"... that has a nice ring to it, hehe.

Hey man, I'm really sorry its not going well for you. But really, what did you expect? More than likely this is just the way it is going to be for a while. Like I said... the most important thing now is to assure your family that you love them, repsect them, and that you put up with this bullshit without a fight for a while. I'm not saying to retreat on your beliefs... but stay calm and gentle, and don't turn this into a teenage angst thing.

This is not going to be the end of the world, nor the end of your family. They will continue to love you, I'm sure of it, you just have to give this some time to settle in. It could be that this will always hurt them, but they will learn to live around it and love around it, and in all of my experiences, things will return to normal in time... just with a new, very sensitive subject.

Take care man, and keep in touch.

Could you tell us please which church/denomination/congregation your parents belong to? Its fairly pointless giving general advice without knowing what they actually believe.

I'm lucky in sorts; my mother had to go to a christian all girls school, so now she didn't want to force any religion on me and my brothers; as a result my brother is buddhist. Anyone know what time it is!






Minions Attack!

Could you tell us please which church/denomination/congregation your parents belong to? Its fairly pointless giving general advice without knowing what they actually believe.

I don't think it matters which specific denomination they belong to if you're giving general advice.

But they're Baptists. They're not very strict, and I don't think they ever were.

My dad doesn't even go to church anymore but he was one of the first people to urge me to keep attending, so I sense some hypocrisy here but I'm certain that telling him would only upset him.

I think we can get along fine. Nothing has changed dramatically. So as long as I try to avoid religious discussions with them, we should be fine.

Ugh, talked to family members on the phone questioning me and telling my to "return to God".

update:

The situation is not so tense anymore but I'm pretty sure they're not going to stop bugging me.

My family tells me it's quite sad that I've "rejected God's way" and have been telling me other various things of this sort like threats of hellfire.

They don't understand, they're not getting it, I can't explain as clear as I want either because I still have to translate what I say and I'm at a lack of words.

I'm just gonna tell them one more time I respect their beliefs and I want the same of my unbelief, will continue to be a good person, and answer them in a nice as possible way to what my reasons are.

Thanks for the advice everyone and Kazz.

Just be quiet about it, don't mention anything.

I don't think it matters which specific denomination they belong to if you're giving general advice.

But they're Baptists. They're not very strict, and I don't think they ever were.

My dad doesn't even go to church anymore but he was one of the first people to urge me to keep attending, so I sense some hypocrisy here but I'm certain that telling him would only upset him.

I think we can get along fine. Nothing has changed dramatically. So as long as I try to avoid religious discussions with them, we should be fine.

I hope so...

If your mother still goes...it may not be the end of it. Her church peers will of course look down upon here b/c she did not raise a good young christian man. She will sense it. She may or may not try to entice you to go based soley upon the guilt rather than support she will recieve from her peers.

It is how churches try to maintain full pews and have throughout history. GUILT.

Maybe...maybe not. Good luck.

I explained the impossibility of creation, noah's ark, the virgin birth, etc. Then I talked to them about theology and the history of the bible.

You just have to tell them the facts. The truth will set you free.

The truth will set you free.


Absolutely agree, however some people will never change.

Sam is right, but what you have to do is for one tell them about evolution and how it works. Explain how large the universe is and if there were such a thing as a supernatural being (and say supernatural being it makes it sound even stupider) we wouldn't discover it through bronze age myths and scribblings which is the bible. You need to educate yourself so you can educate them, thats what I had to do to my parents. Good luck bro.

Also point out things in the bible where moses says to rape little girls and where God told Joshua to destroy all that breathed and things like that. Baptists are pretty fucked up and take the bible for literal truth. Tell them there was no great flood and how god was an asshole for killing people if it is true, but then tell them its not lol.

Make your case.

Ask them questions they cannot possibly answer.

Why has religion caused more strife in the world than good (Crusades, conflicts in the Middle East, etc)?

Read some Erasmus. That guy is the shit when it comes to bashing the church. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Praise_of_Folly

Abuses by Christianity (your religion I'm guessing) and Islam and various other religions.

It is all a scam. All they want is power.

Go into the Renaissance. Tell them about how when Rome fell, a power vacuum formed, and some guy named the Pope surfaced, and his organization just happened to own everyone in Europe for a couple hundred years.

Give them the cold hard facts.

You're not only challenging the way they've been brought up.
You're challenging their mortality.
Even your closest family members or friends can become vicious when you present a view that threatens their lives.

It's a harsh world. Perhaps just leave them be.

Until you can be totally free of them, don't bother questioning their twisted religion... they'll only see it as an attack and use it as an excuse to make your life a total misery.

Instead of criticizing religion itself, tell them you "don't feel the presence of God anymore", or "it's hard for me to believe in God because [list reasons]" Unless both your parents hold knowledge in very high esteem, they'll be unlikely to listen let alone be convinced. Be sure to tell them that it feels more like ritual now that you don't believe.

My father is also Christian and doesn't attend, yet urges me to attend myself; find the reasons your parents want to go to church, and use that to your advantage. Not in telling them that everything they've believed is false, but in slowly easing them towards more spirituality and less religion; that makes the transition easier.

The last thing you should do is insult religion until your parents get used to it.

May I ask why you changed your mind? When I debated you I thought your faith was rock solid...:confused:

May I ask why you changed your mind? When I debated you I thought your faith was rock solid...:confused:

Aside from evolution, radioactive dating and things of the like Christianity
just isn't coherent to me anymore. To continue believing would be delusion.

I'm glad I've handled this at such a young age.

Aside from evolution, radioactive dating and things of the like Christianity
just isn't coherent to me anymore. To continue believing would be delusion.

I'm glad I've handled this at such a young age.

This is just the beginning; odds are, if you have a crisis of faith in your early years, you're more likely to have another later on... just ask ArmsMerchant.

Give them an Ignostic argument for why talking about 'god' is meaningless.
If they attempt to refute with bible, point out circular reasoning.
Never had a family member say much after those 2, other than 'well then, who made the universe?' at which point you explain to them how this reasoning ends in an infinite regress of 'who made god, etc etc ad nauseum' or there are countless other refutations of the design argument.

I consider myself a Christian Gnostic... I look at the Bible more as a Myth but every myth had a true story behind it (Battle of Troy was tide to The Greek Myth Stories of The Odyssey and Illiad) so you see read the Bible as a story with a moral.

However, you don't have to be "Catholic" (Going to church every sunday and giving money to the church) to be Catholic(Just someone who simply believes in Christ). Catholicism is a universal belief in Christ, sure there is Dogma but not all catholics believe in the same doctrine and dogma as another catholic does.

Now you say that Science explains how the universe is? The first thing to do is not criticize your parents for believing in creation... Everything was created whether you believe in God or The Big Bang...

But you don't attack there beliefs or way of doing things... If your atheist or agnostic and your unsure about god or think god is dead nothing is going to change your mind except you but remember there your family and if they are your family they should not question your beliefs so as long as you do not question theirs... You said you questioned God but you did not question there beliefs or way of doing things and thats important...

My girlfriend's parents are very christian. I'm Buddhist. The Mom has been bugging her to ask me why I don't want faith, and has been talking about how I'm going to hell if I don't believe, but I smile and am more than willing to discuss my faith.

It's not that I don't like Christianity, it's just that it doesn't answer the questions I need it to. The bible has a lot of good messages, and many good stories, but it's nothing more to me than a book with deep meaning.

The Lotus Sutra is in the same classification, for me. I focus on saving myself through living a peaceful, just, and fulfilling life, as that is a reward unto itself. I don't personally believe in an afterlife, but I'm perfectly fine with that.

I used to be really hardcore christian. I'd be the one shouting in the pews; I'd be the one who was touched by god's hand toward good; I'd be that one guy who was outgoing, friendly, clean-cut, and so thoroughly indoctrinated that if you cut him, he'd bleed scripture.

Then something changed, and it didn't answer the questions anymore. If evil exists, and god doesn't want it to, isn't he capable of removing it? If he is capable, why doesn't he? If he's neither willing, nor able, why do we worship him? What about radioactive decay? Fossil strata?

Then I fell away from the church, and sought my own path toward inner peace. My friends from the church treated me like I was some kind of psychotic, I was getting asked left and right why I hated god now. I had a guy from the church lay hands on me and rebuke satan from my body, but to no avail.

...I digress yet again... If you're truly unable to believe in the same dogma, explain to them that it's nothing that you had any control over, and that if they were truly following the bible's teachings, they'd allow you to find another way.

Just my point of view

That was a pretty good and self-sufficient message. Interestingly enough my story was practically the same... I was born and raised catholic went to "Sunday school" I received all the sacraments. Than after my confirmation I kinda fell into a Christian Agnosticism... I believed in Jesus Christ but not so much worrying about God. I went to church rarely in this time maybe once during the holidays but even so it was not every Christmas just one or two... Than shit happened in my family and death and resentment towards people about 3 years ago... I became interested in spirituality again... Sought to improve my life (been improving for the past 3 yrs.) than became interested in Christianity again (Past year) and was considering myself "Born Again Christian" by June 2007. Now over the course of the summer up to the present found Gnosticism and here I am writing my life story about my experience with Religion.

So I believe in 3 core teachings: Love, Self-Control and Respect

I think as you follow those three teachings you lead a good life. The thing here that most Christian forget is that there is only one God [if you believe there is a god] and how can something that transcends the greatest human potential be sinned against?(lets not forget if god created the whole universe, theres got to be multiple sentient species of the divine which means how can ONE MAN in the universe sin against God?) Jesus said it himself sometimes we know not the things we do! The forgiveness is done mostly for ourselfs in order to move on and to make amends with that person and try to forgive one self for doing wrong. If the actions you do truly make you feel guilty than seek forgiveness. If they don't yet it still seems wrong reassess and reconsider what is right and wrong...

I believe that "The height of arrogance is the height in which man creates God in their own image!"

What is God at the very least but a concept an abstract? God is Love and Love encompasses all that is Good in human potential so truth, mercy, understanding, justice, unconditional love. When you act on those behaviors you call God into existence.

So recently my family asked me why I don't go to church anymore, so I came out of the closet and tried to tell them why (evolution, deformities, blah blah blah) Anyway my mom and dad keep bugging me about it and look on me with some sort of disdain like I'm lacking some sort of virtue or missing out on something, they're making me feel bad.

When I told them my reasons they got slightly angered, especially my dad. He said something along the lines of,"You shouldn't be questioning God like this!"

Help? Advice? I'm sure there are people here with religious family members.Oh there are, and i am one. Just smile politely and act stupid when they do their religious spiel and act out in defense of their fairytale god. There's not alot else i can say.

tell them that earth is not 6000 years old.

Luckily (well, somewhat) for me, my mom and I got all our religious differences sorted out very quickly once I decided to stop going to church. I told her after church one Sunday that I wasn't going the next Sunday, and every day that week. She didn't believe me. The next Sunday morning when she woke me up, I told her once again: "I'm not going to church. It's YOUR religion, not mine. I need some time because right now it's doing a whole lot more to drive me away from your faith than it is to bring me towards it." She got that dangerous "mom" tone and told me I would either go to church or get out of her house.

I came back a week later and I haven't been to church since.

It helped us both out tremendously, I think. There have been far fewer fights since then.

In your case I think the best way is to just stick to what you believe, and do your best to get along with your parents. Fighting is always worse than peace.

tell them that earth is not 6000 years old.Ha. As if on cue that's when the arm waving begins, the eyes are averted for a second, then one female sibling of mine tells me that jesus loves me, mindlessly starts quoting scripture and then instructs me to read my bible.

So recently my family asked me why I don't go to church anymore, so I came out of the closet and tried to tell them why (evolution, deformities, blah blah blah) Anyway my mom and dad keep bugging me about it and look on me with some sort of disdain like I'm lacking some sort of virtue or missing out on something, they're making me feel bad.

When I told them my reasons they got slightly angered, especially my dad. He said something along the lines of,"You shouldn't be questioning God like this!"

Help? Advice? I'm sure there are people here with religious family members.

Well, you shouldn't question god like that! Actually, you live under their roof, and in their house, so you shouldn't question them, just respect their beliefs, so in the future, butter that bacon, and bacon up that sausage.

In reply to beginning of topic:

I actually find from a Gnostic perspective anything science has to say as valid and credible. Evolution and things like that, to me religion and there various myths (TO ME) are about us and our mind and our personal experiences we all share in different ways. Science at least tries to explain the how in this world around us.

In fact as a Gnostic I would tell you to question the God presented to you by orthodox Christianity (assuming your Christian...). From my inquiries, questioning, research and understanding that really isn't the true God that I have come to know. Again "know" how do you "Know God" it goes beyond words its just like this click in the mind, that really only you can experience solely on your own, you will know if you really want to though.

The only advice I can give is that from my perspective God Loves you for whoever you are he doesn't need worship and appeasement, in Gnosticism that is what the Demiurge demands though. In the grand scheme of things you worship god with your life the actions, the emotions everything... He wants you to be Truly Happy and have True Peace With The World, regardless if your atheist or theist or Pantheist or Panentheist. At heart were all Gnostic... Even if most of us don't know it, you are a part of God not entirely God but a part of God, I'm not being New Age-y either, they would say Your Full God.

Oftentimes when I say "Your God" people get this Ego Rush, like as if they can have anything anytime they want. Theres a tale to that... "In the beginning God filled all existence when God wanted to create life he had to constrain himself to one point of existence to make room for everything else to come to be." The point of the tale was simple, The First True God Lesson is Self-Restraint. Opposite from the lessons of indulgence when we hear "You Are God!" The New Agers let out...

BTW, Myths today we hear myths as just a story, a tale you read to a child before they goto bed at night. However, myths represent (from my research) what goes on in our minds, creating such abstract stories that so many people want to listen to is part of being a creative human being. So dont brush off myth as just a storybook tale... No its greater than that its transformative and enables you to change if you can contemplate the meaning of the myth even if you break it down to the various scenes.

When I said "True Happiness" and "True Peace" its different than just Happiness and Peace. True Happiness and Peace can only be defined by you. It shouldnt be to superficial or to complex a definition to what you think of as True Happiness and True Peace. The Powers That Be seem to define our world and what words should mean to us and because of that society seems to enforce it.

Another piece of advice Define your own life if you experience True Happiness and True Peace than your going in accordance with your own life path and whether or not you do believe God is with you on that path.

For example to me True Happiness is the moments that you could feel last forever, moments you will have a hard time to forget and things can make you feel high of life. To me True Peace is about making peace with who you are, your limitations and overcoming your obstacles that you face in the world.