I believe athiests have completely dominated this forum.

I think christians feel bad for coming here and reading rational, logical truths and lacking any real arguments what so ever.

Should the name of the forum be changed to something like "God is dead or Never was and here is why" or something?

Go away.

Go away.

5char

I believe athiests have completely dominated this forum.

I think christians feel bad for coming here and reading rational, logical truths and lacking any real arguments what so ever.

Should the name of the forum be changed to something like "God is dead or Never was and here is why" or something?

I believe atheists make up the majority of this forum as well... but I don't by any means think it has to do with the "rational and logical truths" presented in this forum. Threads like those, to me, seem quite rare. In fact when these threads do come up every once in a while, it seems the occasional Christian does stumble in and leave his ten cents... and I like seeing this.

Unfortunately the majority of atheist threads are just nonsensical, arrogant, and insulting. You yourself brokeprophet, make threads that ask what Jesus would do if you told him to give you head or else you'd kill an innocent girl. If I was Christian, I'd probly get quite sick of this shit as well. Christian threads in here frequently are just as immature... but like you said... this thread is dominated by atheists.

Plus... Christians and atheists aren't the only groups in here. We have plenty of spiritual people... whether they believe in God, or the "positive energy" or whatever they want to call it.

The theological existence argument isn't the only debate that fits into this forum.

You are an idiot.

"God is dead" is a complete misunderstanding of both 'God' and 'death'.

Yes I did create the Jesus suck my dick thread.

I completely and wholeheardedly agree that it was a nonsensical and immature thread. I agreed many times within the thread.

Threads I start on evolution, god of the gaps theory or many other threads get zero attention. The Jesus suck my dick thread got plenty. I just figured I would give christians a thread that was so full of shit they could actually participate in a debate. Missed hearin from ya. Was an experiment i believe I hinted at in a post somewhere here.

All I am saying is I see very little in the way of valid Christian points. For example, Christians seem to love the Case for Christ or other apologetics that seem to justify and provide evidence for their faith. All arguments in these books and any arguments a Christian seems to have are always just speculation. Pure speculation with zero evidence or facts.

I am actually surprised at the number of faithful who responded to this. Thought you guys left.

All I am saying is I see very little in the way of valid Christian points.

Then why suggest the name change? It implies nothing Christian...

I wince every time I see someone generalizing Christians as bible toting, intelligent design believing idiots when the university qualified theologians I know are some of the most rational minded people around. In league with Rev Spong here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Shelby_Spong).
Most blanket statements do not do justice to the topic. This is the same with Christianity.

Then why suggest the name change? It implies nothing Christian...

Okay semantics....I say christian b/c the majority of mystics on here seem to be christian. Your semantical statement represents the toughest Judiao-christian argument I have ever heard.

My god can beat the shit out of your god suggests a monotheistic religion which are primarily Judaism or the variant offshoots of this religion Islam and Chrisianity.

I would suggest something like "religion....why we lack a substantial argument when defending FAITH"

Or something like "God........why not?"

(note to the semantical reader. Again when I refer to God in the last part it is in referance to and suggests the monotheistic God believers here, who primarily believe in the God of Judaism.) :)

BrokeProphet, when God casts you (and those who believed your lies) into hell for eternity for your sins, you can't say nobody warned you. :)

BrokeProphet, when God casts you (and those who believed your lies) into hell for eternity for your sins, you can't say nobody warned you. :)

Then again, a loving and just God wouldn't leave our salvation on the hands of Rolloffles of the world


Of course there's no christians left, what did you expect? There's not much to talk about beyond arguing over shit no one can prove or disprove

I wince every time I see someone generalizing Christians as bible toting, intelligent design believing idiots when the university qualified theologians I know are some of the most rational minded people around. In league with Rev Spong here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Shelby_Spong).
Most blanket statements do not do justice to the topic. This is the same with Christianity.

True. My only true problem with religion at all is it's ability to infect public policy and a private persons right to chose between the secular and religious lifestyles. I am sure if Christians quit infect public policy you would see both the numbers of christians as well as the anger towards them decline.

I am sorry it just seems in order to be a monothiestic mystic (jew/islam/christian) you have to accept a few things...like the Bible as the word of God and all the shit that comes with that, or that the big three (which to me are one and the same) judaism, islam, christians have, over all, been bad for humanity.

BrokeProphet, when God casts you (and those who believed your lies) into hell for eternity for your sins, you can't say nobody warned you. :)

What lies would that be?

The earth is over 6,000 years old.

Egypt and Judaism have far too much in common to be mere coincidence.

The celestial acts that take place winter solstice mimics the birth and death of Jesus almost to the letter.

That without murdering pagans and heretics for nearly a thousand years christianity might not be the dominate religion in the world today.

That the inquisition set back science by half a millenium.

That there is more evidence for evolution than there is for "poof, god did it".

That ANYTHING in science CAN be DISPROVEN. The fundamentals of religion cannot. That the god of Judaism that exists today has shrunk in the face of science and now only occupies gaps in scientific knowledge like a goblin or other mythical creature.

What lies would I burn for? Are any of those lies? Would I then burn for the truth b/c if so I would NOT be the first would I?

Unfortunately the majority of atheist threads are just nonsensical, arrogant, and insulting.

And unfortunately, I'm quoting this for truth.

I took a long sabbatical from this forum due in part to a huge influx of nonsensical, arrogant and insulting atheist threads that seemed to hit as fierce as any tsunoobie i've ever witnessed on Totse.

I have frequented this forum for five years, and one thing is for certain: What seems today like "the majority" ebbs and flows. I remember when there used to be more Christian threads than any other, and another time when that crazy cat Abrahim had multiple, daily threads in support of Islam.

I've also been part of discussions in here with people of faith that were lively, legible and lacked low-level insults.

All people of faith aren't conservative, holybook-thumpin' derelicts and all atheists aren't angsty, abrasive arrogant assholes.

Atheists don't dominate this forum. Christians don't dominate this forum. Muslims don't dominate this forum.

People dominate this forum. What they believe in (or don't believe in) just happens to be the topic at hand, so don't feel threatened when it seems as though one group has hoarded the spotlight from others. Again, it ebbs and flows. Stick around. You'll see.

Perhaps your right...

I hope your right. It is getting boring on this thread for athiests with nobody to really debate with.

My god can beat the shit out of your god suggests a monotheistic religion which are primarily Judaism or the variant offshoots of this religion Islam and Chrisianity.

You only see it suggesting such because of the concepts you connect with the word. Its a very clever title.

I would suggest something like "religion....why we lack a substantial argument when defending FAITH"

Or something like "God........why not?"

You would suggest something like "God is dead or Never was and here is why", which along with you other suggestions are making assumptions about what 'God' should mean.

when I refer to God in the last part it is in referance to and suggests the monotheistic God believers here, who primarily believe in the God of Judaism.

Which does not adhere to everyone who believes in 'God'.

Though it seems my post may be late now, at least I'm something for an atheist to debate with.

Atheists can dominate it all they care to if they insist on believing ridiculous fantasies relating to religion X. Smug atheism is more disgusting than any religion I know of.

BTW, you cant really debate beliefs.

And unfortunately, I'm quoting this for truth.

I took a long sabbatical from this forum due in part to a huge influx of nonsensical, arrogant and insulting atheist threads that seemed to hit as fierce as any tsunoobie i've ever witnessed on Totse.

I have frequented this forum for five years, and one thing is for certain: What seems today like "the majority" ebbs and flows. I remember when there used to be more Christian threads than any other, and another time when that crazy cat Abrahim had multiple, daily threads in support of Islam.

I've also been part of discussions in here with people of faith that were lively, legible and lacked low-level insults.

All people of faith aren't conservative, holybook-thumpin' derelicts and all atheists aren't angsty, abrasive arrogant assholes.

Atheists don't dominate this forum. Christians don't dominate this forum. Muslims don't dominate this forum.

People dominate this forum. What they believe in (or don't believe in) just happens to be the topic at hand, so don't feel threatened when it seems as though one group has hoarded the spotlight from others. Again, it ebbs and flows. Stick around. You'll see.

Good points, all. I never thought I'd say this, but I wish Abrahim were back. His ideas were pretty far out, but you can't say that he didn't bring a lot to this forum.

Now that most of the kidiots are back in class, perhaps this forum will get back on the upswing.

Atheists can dominate it all they care to if they insist on believing ridiculous fantasies relating to religion X. Smug atheism is more disgusting than any religion I know of.

AP2K, I've gained too much respect for you to attack you on this statement, at least for the present.

BTW, you cant really debate beliefs.

I would like to know, however, how you can support this assertion?

You can choose a ready guide in some cellestial voice.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill.
I will choose a path that's clear...
I will choose free will.

OR

No his mind is not for rent
To any god or government.
Always hopeful yet discontent,
He knows changes aren't permanent.
But change is

OR

And the men who hold high places
Must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality
Closer to the heart

The blacksmith and the artist
Reflect it in their art
They forge their creativity
Closer to the heart

Philosophers and ploughmen
Each must know his part
To sow a new mentality
Closer to the heart

You can be the captain
And I will draw the chart
Sailing into destiny
Closer to the heart

In my opinion, I must have faith, discernment and gnosis to be complete. Faith is good, but it will get you nowhere without effort. Faith inspires hope, but hope for what? You must do, not merely hope. Discernment is good, because it makes you question things, causing you to discover and learn about yourself and the world. Without discernment and free thought, one would be blind. Without gnosis, you can still function. This can also be said of faith. However, without gnosis, it is impossibe (IMO) to reap the benefits of heaven, nirvana, etc., because you won't realize you're happy. You may be stuck "chasing your tail" for a specific sensory input/factoid to make you happy.

Discernment, logic and science are the beginning. They lead to philosophy, the development of the intellect, and knowledge of the natural world. The more deeply one ponders existence, he may search for clues regarding the nature of consciousness, space, time, matter, energy, and death. If you begin on this path as a skeptic/atheist, it it still virtuous, because the Supreme Being cannot be separate from the universe - it must permeate everything. So, by studying the universe, one studies the divine. "Divine" is just a word with so many connotations ascribed to it. Just think of it as genuinely intriguing, mysterious, beautiful, and worth studying. If you love astronomy, or chemistry, or whatever, then you are inspired. This phenomenon we call "life" is truly amazing and magical - even if there is an explanation. Isn't it amazing how modern day Illusionists pull off their stunts? Of course there is an explanation, but knowing it's "fake" doesn't make me any less interested. It makes me more interested. I want to know how it works. Besides, "fake" doesn't describe an illusion, because the illusion actually occurs. Fake is for a Rolex that you buy from a shady guy, or FeS being passed off as gold.

Your personal understanding of the universe is what's relevant, not someone else's. A scientist who denies God is no worse than someone who affirms God, and vice versa. Two halves of one whole. Dichotomy is essential to our existince and self-awareness (ego), and a natural by-product of the brain. There are ways to destroy the ego and experience the world differently, but this is neither the time nor the place.

AP2K, I've gained too much respect for you to attack you on this statement, at least for the present.

I dont suppose you quite understand what I'm talking about, then. I was meaning threads that perhaps teeter on trolling but ask a question that should be plainly obvious if the poster had done even a little research.

I guess we can both agree that posters asking whether a set of trick spark plugs will add 50 hp to their car. We both know the answer and why it is true. Although the answer isnt as clear cut as aforementioned "beliefs" as it is an engineering and physics question, the answer is nonetheless obvious.

I would like to know, however, how you can support this assertion?

The same way I cannot support that Golden Books are better than Dr. Seuss books.

I dont suppose you quite understand what I'm talking about, then. I was meaning threads that perhaps teeter on trolling but ask a question that should be plainly obvious if the poster had done even a little research.

Makes sense...but how does such a statement differ between the kidiot atheists making semi-troll threads/comments (who haven't a clue about religion), and the kidiot religious fundies who do the exact same when attacking anyone whose beliefs do not agree with theirs?

I guess we can both agree that posters asking whether a set of trick spark plugs will add 50 hp to their car. We both know the answer and why it is true. Although the answer isnt as clear cut as aforementioned "beliefs" as it is an engineering and physics question, the answer is nonetheless obvious.

I agree completely.

The same way I cannot support that Golden Books are better than Dr. Seuss books.

The thing is, that if one holds any belief, one should be able to put forth a rational explanation for holding said belief. How can such an issue be not debateable?

Angryfemme has managed to say all I wanted to, and far more eloquently than i could.

http://sciencevsfaith.ytmnd.com/

The thing is, that if one holds any belief, one should be able to put forth a rational explanation for holding said belief. How can such an issue be not debateable?

The problem is that although you can make a case for a debate between Dr.
Seuss and Golden Books based on merits such as moral values common to all men and reading difficulty, you cannot debate religion vs religion or religion vs atheism because there is no evidence to back at least one of the sides up and the belief system of both are incompatible.

If it were so easy, you would see either atheism or a handful major religions dominating the poulation of beliefs where the population growth does not arise through indoctrination of the youth.

This is not to say you cant persuade either side, you simply cannot reason with a side because beliefs are not something you can quantify and compare.

Contrast this to, say, a debate on global warming among scientists or a debate of the greatest apostle among Christians. Both cases have a common set of beliefs and/or a common set of evidence to debate against.

Then again I could just be confusing "debate" with "critical analysis"...

Makes sense...but how does such a statement differ between the kidiot atheists making semi-troll threads/comments (who haven't a clue about religion), and the kidiot religious fundies who do the exact same when attacking anyone whose beliefs do not agree with theirs?

A fair point. However religious trolls (excluding Rollofle as I believe him to be a staunch atheist or an incredibly stupid person) are harder to come by on these boards (at least so far that I've noticed) but at least have some sort of "arguement" to back up their statements. (I quotation "arguement" because of the unquantifiable reasoning I meantioned above) Although I have known a few who have posted here to have resorted to near-ad hominem to support their claim just as the atheist troll, but these are much rarer and dont get on my nerves quite as much.

We all know religious trolls to be exceedingly stupid, no? Expectations, therefore, may not be set so high for them as perhaps an atheist who professes itself to be the icon of knowledge and tolerance.

The problem is that although you can make a case for a debate between Dr.
Seuss and Golden Books based on merits such as moral values common to all men and reading difficulty, you cannot debate religion vs religion or religion vs atheism because there is no evidence to back at least one of the sides up and the belief system of both are incompatible.

If it were so easy, you would see either atheism or a handful major religions dominating the poulation of beliefs where the population growth does not arise through indoctrination of the youth.

You are correct. Religion is not something you can debate. Religion is a matter of opinion.

If it remained in that realm I would not have a problem with it. When Christian Scientists (oxymoron if I EVER heard one) try to tell people the world is 6,000 years old...Noah and his wife saved all the animals on earth...or that evolution should not be taught to children in public schools.....There will be debate.

I simply point out that the only place religion has to argue from is the gaps in current scientific knowledge and that is the only place they have ever been able to debate from. I make the point that God's domain has shrunk in the face of science. That is a fact.

So Atheism does in fact have things to back it up. Science for one. Another is the bible itself. To me if the Bible is the word of God penned by men who were divinely inspired then it should not be wrong......I mean if you can prove one piece of that book wrong then you can just throw it out b/c any other part may be wrong including core features of the book such as Jesus being the Christ, or the ten commandments.

Here goes.....Noah and the Flood.....AKA the Epic of Gilgamesh. That right there. One of these has to be false. In reality they both are. (egyptian myth is ABOUND in the bible)

Was there a great flood? Yes. How do we know? B/C groups of people ALL OVER the world report it in their history. The story of Noah then has to be false. If Noah and his wife repopulated the world then how could people survive in North America to tell the tale. They are not Noah's children and share none of his beliefs, culture or customs.

Another problem would be the transport of the animals back to their native environments. Forget the tremendous and impossible effort of collecting all of them. We will say God helped him collect them. Then if you say God helped redistribute them you have to ask WHAT THE FUCK HE NEEDED NOAH FOR.

Austraila has some of the most unique animals on Earth. Science tells us it is b/c of the supercontinent pangea. When pangea drifted apart Austraila was the only continent completely isolated and thus evolved very interesting and unique animals sharing symbiotic relationships like none other.

The bible would have us believe that Noah left them there. Science has a perfect rational behind the animals on Australia. Thus the story as written in the bible is false. So what else is or can be a lie? Anything.

Not to mention Constantine rewriting the bible and even changing the sabbath to fit pagan traditions. This is the excuse for Astrotheological content riddled throughout the bible. Either way it doesnt bode well for the faithful. Either the astrotheological content of the bible is the true nature of the book (making the bible almost completely pagan) or it was put in their by Constantine thus making the bible a fraud.

See atheism can be debated and has a FIRM platform of support from science. Religion is completely opinion and the only argument they have comes from the bible and by reanalyzing the riddles in the bible to fit whatever they need to. Like a horoscope. Over generalized.

Anything science pokes at long enough turns into a rational complete and truthful piece of information. Religion has been beaten time and time again by the cold rational of science. Religion has YET to score a point. I like to root for underdogs but come on.

"God is dead" is a complete misunderstanding of both 'God' and 'death'.

God is a fundamental concept that never should have been realised?

God is a fundamental concept that never should have been realised?

What do you mean by God?

What do you mean by God?

Any possible incarnation of a super human extra terrestrial being or presence.

Any possible incarnation of a super human extra terrestrial being or presence.

Theres nothing super about God.

Presence? Thats what God is.

What you are denying is not God.

Theres nothing super about God.

Presence? Thats what God is.

What you are denying is not God.

Super means above or beyond. As in more powerful than humans.

What is God, oh universal authority on things perpendicular to our mortal coil?

Super means above or beyond. As in more powerful than humans.

...and?

What is God, oh universal authority on things perpendicular to our mortal coil?

I am.

...and?



I am.

Point proven, dumbasses never should've been realised.

Point proven.

Uh huh :rolleyes:.

God knows better.

God is and always will be a belief and nothing more.

All god's have been belief and nothing more. God is an idea. A human concept and construct.

You have as much PROOF that god is real as I do that I am, in fact God.

So whatever anybody wants to assume god is they are completely right.

EXAMPLE: For me god is a SUPER human man who is invisible in the clouds and grants wishes if you dont masterbate.

I am every bit as right as you are in that interpretation.

God is and always will be a belief and nothing more. You have as much PROOF that god is real as I do that I am, in fact God.

God is equivalent to the state of 'being', 'I AM', awareness of nothing, etc...

I have all the proof of God I need.

I AM God. Or, Aham Brahmasmi.

For me god is a SUPER human man who is invisible in the clouds and grants wishes if you dont masterbate.

I am every bit as right as you are in that interpretation.

How are you? That concept is an illusion.

God is equivalent to the state of 'being', 'I AM', awareness of nothing, etc...

I have all the proof of God I need.

I AM God. Or, Aham Brahmasmi.



How are you? That concept is an illusion.

I have to warn you.....I am immune to your SENSLESS ramblings (and that is what they are make no mistake).

Most time when you speak this way I am reminded of a child asking a question then asking why after EVERY answer. It is frustrating but ultimatly proves NOTHING.

Let me show you:

Your illusion is the concept that you hold is an illusion.

Wow. I just typed out some shit that makes no sense but can only be answered with more nonsensical bullshit. That was so easy to do. I am gonna train a chimp to do that.

I believe athiests have completely dominated this forum.

I think christians feel bad for coming here and reading rational, logical truths and lacking any real arguments what so ever.

Should the name of the forum be changed to something like "God is dead or Never was and here is why" or something?

Why are you presenting asinine gloating as some kind of logical truth? That's all this is, and it's right up there in immaturity with the you're-going-to-burn-in-hell-if-you-don't-love-jesus kidiots.

Why are you presenting asinine gloating as some kind of logical truth? That's all this is, and it's right up there in immaturity with the you're-going-to-burn-in-hell-if-you-don't-love-jesus kidiots.

Gloating yes but also a realistic and truthful observation when I started this thread. Notice the arguments underneath that post were not really:

We post our thoughts and ideas here all the time.

I was just wondering if theists feel sinful for coming here and reading about the simplistic truth behind evolution or about the huge amount of coincidence between astrology and judaism/christian/islam. I wondered this b/c at the time they seemed to disappear.

It is frustrating but ultimatly proves NOTHING.

You haven't answered me, haven't shown me why I am wrong.

That concept, and any other concept of God besides the one I just displayed, are never going to be anything more then illusions.

I was just wondering if theists feel sinful for coming here and reading about the simplistic truth behind evolution or about the huge amount of coincidence between astrology and judaism/christian/islam. I wondered this b/c at the time they seemed to disappear.

Do keep in mind this is Totse. People regularly spew profanity, talk about committing rape for the lulz, and discussing how to commit crimes. Typical hostility to any kind of projection of morality in general. I don't expect there are all that many die-hard Christians that come here with anything more than an expectation of getting shouted down by angry kidiots the majority of the time time rather than actual debate. That's not a presentation of logical truth and it's likely the real reason for the so-called Atheist Domination here.

You haven't answered me, haven't shown me why I am wrong.

That concept, and any other concept of God besides the one I just displayed, are never going to be anything more then illusions.

The concept that You are god?

Or the concept that a persons belief in god is "I am God" or it is an illusion. Is that what your saying. Because you are right it is not an illusion. That is a delusion. More importantly self-delusion.

Are we talking about the Christian god or at least an omnipotent omniscient God? Or just the fruity "I am god of my world b/c I am" kind of bullshit?

B/C I am talking of the "creator" of the whole universe god. WTF are you talking about?

Or just the fruity "I am god of my world b/c I am" kind of bullshit?

B/C I am talking of the "creator" of the whole universe god. WTF are you talking about?

They are the same thing.

Do keep in mind this is Totse. People regularly spew profanity, talk about committing rape for the lulz, and discussing how to commit crimes. Typical hostility to any kind of projection of morality in general. I don't expect there are all that many die-hard Christians that come here with anything more than an expectation of getting shouted down by angry kidiots the majority of the time time rather than actual debate. That's not a presentation of logical truth and it's likely the real reason for the so-called Atheist Domination here.

When I said logical truth I am of course reffering to scientific discovery which I know has dictated and is dictating religion. Science a tool for finding logical truth. That is why God gets smaller. Logical truth would appear to be God's kryptonite as it were.

Besides that, what you presented in your argument would be a real reason (or logical truth) for the (not so-called) Atheist Domination here.

Either way I have yet to hear a decent christian argument for anything.

They are the same thing.

Really?

Then I end the universe ................ right .......... NOW!!!

SHIT LOOKS LIKE YOUR STATEMENT IS THEN FALSE!!!

STFU

STFU

Anger will not help you. It makes you look bad.

I never said you were God, silly.

I am.

You...you are an illusion.

Either way I have yet to hear a decent christian argument for anything.

I think it's interesting that you use the word Christian as if Christians were the sole focus of the religious spectrum. In fact, I have to question a person's commitment to atheism or claims to logical truth when their arguments are strictly biblically-based. God isn't a Christian construct and Islam isn't the only other huge religion that presents a God, or gods. Yet somehow foiling the huge failure that is the Bible constitutes disproving God?

Taking that argument a step further, I have to wonder how many people here could even begin to argue against religions that are not Christianity without throwing in words like "cult" or "jihad".

Anger will not help you. It makes you look bad.

I never said you were God, silly.

I am.

You...you are an illusion.

Me look bad. You are making foolish and childish claims that make little to no sense. I know you feel that this makes you intellectually superior to the rest of us....but it makes you look like the cunt your mother always knew you were.

I am not angry. I am bored. More importantly I am bored with you.

Back up your nonsensical claims to godhood or suck my balls....... :)

Miracle me a 20 dollar bill right now.......or STFU

Me look bad.

Indeed.

Back up your nonsensical claims to godhood

Aham Brahmasmi.

Want more detail? Ask me more direct questions.

Miracle me a 20 dollar bill right now.......or STFU

Why do you think God could do that?

I think it's interesting that you use the word Christian as if Christians were the sole focus of the religious spectrum. In fact, I have to question a person's commitment to atheism or claims to logical truth when their arguments are strictly biblically-based. God isn't a Christian construct and Islam isn't the only other huge religion that presents a God, or gods. Yet somehow foiling the huge failure that is the Bible constitutes disproving God?

Taking that argument a step further, I have to wonder how many people here could even begin to argue against religions that are not Christianity without throwing in words like "cult" or "jihad".


Your right. You are absolutely right. Most people in my country and in my community are Christians. Let's take a moment to show other faiths for the bullshit they are shall we.

Lightning and thunder are not the result of Thor.

The spirit quest of the native americans is NOT given by a spirit......but by ingesting hallucinogenics.

Mormons are completely full of shit. Magical god plates found here in America?

Scientology.........this needs no explanation except to say it was founded by a WRITER OF SCIENCE FICTION.

We do not need to sacrifice people so the sun will come up.....sorry mayans.

Horus and Set do not fight and cause night and day.

I could go on. Suffice it to say the reason I dont say "Zeus is bullshit" is b/c people for the most part dont believe in Zeus anymore. They dont believe b/c science and reason took over.

On a side note I believe science would have already killed Christianity had the Christians not murdered scientists for a thousand years. I almost think that was their motive. Any other thoughts?

Indeed.

Aham Brahmasmi.

Want more detail? Ask me more direct questions.

Why do you think God could do that?

I believe you should get ready for beddy time. Go find your favorite teddy bear and wait for your mother to tuck you in.

I believe you should get ready for beddy time. Go find your favorite teddy bear and wait for your mother to tuck you in.

Kay.

Enjoy the maya.

Your right. You are absolutely right. Most people in my country and in my community are Christians. Let's take a moment to show other faiths for the bullshit they are shall we.


And you seriously believe any of the following points actually DID that? Are you serious? All you did was run cheap and easy targetting at the most superficial stereotypical beliefs of those religions. You could easily add "Sorry Christians, Jesus did NOT turn water to wine." to the list and pretend like you made a real argument.
And, even more to the point - why are the chosen religions mostly dead ones that people don't follow anymore? Why not serious discussion of "real" gods/religions people still follow...

Lightning and thunder are not the result of Thor.
- Dead religion by about 300 years.

The spirit quest of the native americans is NOT given by a spirit......but by ingesting hallucinogenics.
- Ridiculous overgeneralization as how many tribes made up the North Americas? Perhaps you should start with evidence that they didn't have any clue that the materials they ingested were hallucigenic and that they weren't simply treating those substances in a manner that certain types of creatively-inspired recreational drug users do today?

Mormons are completely full of shit. Magical god plates found here in America?
-... about as rational as stone tablets from Mt. Sinai, floods to ravage the earth and the rest. How about something a little more substantial?

Scientology.........this needs no explanation except to say it was founded by a WRITER OF SCIENCE FICTION.
-Until Scientology starts to take itself seriously, I'll have to agree with you. In fact, I wouldn't even credit it with cult status, much less religious.

We do not need to sacrifice people so the sun will come up.....sorry mayans.
- Another dead religion by how many hundreds of years?

Horus and Set do not fight and cause night and day.
- Dead by how many thousands of years?

I could go on. Suffice it to say the reason I dont say "Zeus is bullshit" is b/c people for the most part dont believe in Zeus anymore. They dont believe b/c science and reason took over.

And I could point out that you've done nothing but address the simplest and easiest superstitious beliefs of people hundreds to thousands of years dead. How about religion that has survived to the modern day? As for the bit about Zeus being dead because science and reason took over... that's displays and astounding lack of understanding of history. That religion is dead for the same reason many others are... because Christianity took over. Long live religion by the sword, eh?

Perhaps you could discuss something more current and relevant? Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam... there is quite a large number of religions that have survived the years that are centered around god figures, and dismissing them as bullshit out of hand certainly displays all the "logic and reason" of an old-world Christian towards science, doesn't it?

"dismissing them as bullshit out of hand certainly displays all the "logic and reason" of an old-world Christian towards science, doesn't it?"

They're all logically impossible, self-contradictory constructs, therefore it is infinitely more likely they are fictional than real. Therefore, anyone who thinks they are real is a dumbass. /thread.

Perhaps I could.

What religion's bullshit would you like me to discuss? Islam is Judaism (old testement) with a different new testement so all the bullshit that is inhereit in the old testement (the flood, egyptian history conflicts, ripping off astrology and egyptian religion) applies to these two easily as well.

As far as Hinduism goes....I understand that one of the avatars of their god is Jesus. Enough said there.

Buddhism I view as more of a philosophy than a religion really.

The main reason I stick to christians is b/c they have fucked it up bad for the rest of us and continue to meddle in affairs of secular humanists.

Everytime I watch a movie on network television that is a choppy bleeped out and watered down version of the original I curse a Christian.
Every Sunday when I feel like having a beer as a free man in a free country that respects no establishment of a religion and have to drive for an hour to get one I curse a Christain.

When I see someone in a wheelchair paralyzed I curse a Christian. When I see bible thumpers trying to censor my world, video games, movies, etc. and watch them get busted for fucking children I curse them.

I can bitch about other religions and use science to point out the flaws found within.....but the fact is the only religion that impacts me in a negative way on a regular basis is Christianity.

I will talk about what ever the FUCK I want to talk about. You can assume ALL day long why that is. I have told you.

Now.....I would like to hear from you people 5 reasons why Jesus Christ is a fraud.

They're all logically impossible,

The foundation of logic is reason.

Prove that they're all logically impossible.

The main reason I stick to christians is b/c they have fucked it up bad for the rest of us and continue to meddle in affairs of secular humanists.


If the sole focus of your religious disbelief, if everything you define your atheism by is Christianity... why not simply call yourself an anti-Christian or something equally ridiculous instead of pretending you've actually put more serious thought into the subject than "I understand one of their avatars is Jesus"?

That doesn't sound like atheism, that sounds like "I hate Christianity, so the rest of you are wrong and can fuck off too."

If the sole focus of your religious disbelief, if everything you define your atheism by is Christianity... why not simply call yourself an anti-Christian or something equally ridiculous instead of pretending you've actually put more serious thought into the subject than "I understand one of their avatars is Jesus"?

That doesn't sound like atheism, that sounds like "I hate Christianity, so the rest of you are wrong and can fuck off too."

Sigh....

I am an athiest. I promise you. All religions are EQUALLY full of shit. They all have an EQUAL amount of proof. PERIOD. A muslim cannot back up allah any more than christians can back up Jesus. NO RELIGION CAN PROVE ITSELF ANY MORE THAN THE OTHERS.

In the face of science, truth and fact the testicles of all religions shrivle.

If I lived in asia I would probably talk about how buddhists and their beliefs effect me as a non-believer.
SINCE I DO NOT LIVE IN ASIA THAT WOULD AN EXERCISE IN FUTILITY!!!
You can then see why I choose to speak about how full of shit christians are, cant you? They affect my daily life. I dislike it. It irks me as a non-believer in ANY theistic belief structure.

I am an athiest. I like being an athiest. I trust science. I could be anti-christian and still be a muslim. That is why I do not identify myself as being anti-christian b/c it suggests NOT that I dont have theistic beliefs (which is the case) but that I do not like or have christian beliefs.

I AM an athiest...perhaps an anti-christian athiest but a total non-believer nonetheless.

What do you or dont you believe in?

i cannot bring myself to believe in something that cannot be proven and doesnt make sense , yet the religious people try to use their circular logic on me to make believe their beliefs, and that just convinces me even further that religion is bullshit.

I am an athiest. I like being an athiest. I trust science. I could be anti-christian and still be a muslim. That is why I do not identify myself as being anti-christian b/c it suggests NOT that I dont have theistic beliefs (which is the case) but that I do not like or have christian beliefs.

I AM an athiest...perhaps an anti-christian athiest but a total non-believer nonetheless.

What do you or dont you believe in?

I am agnostic. I make no claims one way or the other. I consider claims of there being a god as baseless as claims of a god's existence being bullshit since neither can back what they say with any facts... you know, science, logic, reason and all that.

christians are so ignorant and stubborn... they only cling to their religion as a sense of security.

"God is dead" is a complete misunderstanding of both 'God' and 'death'.

No, it's actually metaphorical. All it means is that Europe has past it's stage of being reliant on Christian morality and moving toward secularism.

No, it's actually metaphorical. All it means is that Europe has past it's stage of being reliant on Christian morality and moving toward secularism.

The Christian conception of God is wrong, and death is not an end.

The Christian conception of God is wrong, and death is not an end.

What evidence can you provide to defend these assertions? How can you prove that your perception of god is correct, and the christian's perception is wrong? How can you prove that there exists anything beyond life?

"The Christian conception of God is wrong, and death is not an end."

Any "conception" of God outside of "fictional douchebag" is wrong, and YES, death is the end. Your brain dies, you die with it.

Your brain dies, you die with it.

Burden of proof is on the claimant. Prove it?

What evidence can you provide to defend these assertions? How can you prove that your perception of god is correct, and the christian's perception is wrong? How can you prove that there exists anything beyond life?

All that is true is the truth represented by 'I AM', 'awareness of nothing', 'being', etc.

Based on that truth, all else (life, death, ice cream,etc.) are illusions.

Evidence is an illusion.

All that is true is the truth represented by 'I AM', 'awareness of nothing', 'being', etc.

Based on that truth, all else (life, death, ice cream,etc.) are illusions.

Evidence is an illusion.

So in a nutshell, what you are saying is that you have no way to back up any of your assertions, so you will continue to pile on more unsupported assertions to hide the fact.

So in a nutshell, what you are saying is that you have no way to back up any of your assertions, so you will continue to pile on more unsupported assertions to hide the fact.

Go ahead and tell me how you know otherwise.

Tell me how you know your experiences are reality, not illusions.

So I see the last post in this thread is by Obbe, and just for the fuck of it I click it to see if he's still hijacking every fucking thread he participates in to discuss how everything is an illusion and no one can prove otherwise. Surprise, surprise.

Please everyone, don't let him continue to fuck up every thread on here so he can discuss his pet issue. Ignore, and continue to discuss what the OP meant to discuss. He's a troll of the worst kind.

Ignore

That option has always been available. You have it too.

He's a troll of the worst kind.

:( When all I do is tell the truth?

That option has always been available. You have it too.
And I don't help you hijack anymore. Hopefully me bringing it up will stop others from allowing you to do this. You'd have been stopped on just about any other message board by now.



:( When all I do is tell the truth?
No, when you rudely change the topic and bait others into a pages long discussion in thread after thread about the same fucking off-topic issue.

I'm done here.

And I don't help you hijack anymore.

Yet here you are, back again.

I'm done here.

Can you demonstrate my rudeness or baiting?

Yeah...then I guess you are done.

Go ahead and tell me how you know otherwise.

Tell me how you know your experiences are reality, not illusions.


You're talking bullshit and you know it. I'm willing to bet that you don't really believe your own assertions.

If you are so sure that everything is just an illusion, put a .357 to your head and pull the trigger. If what I believe is reality is correct, you'll be dead. If this is all just an illusion, you'll be fine.

You're talking bullshit and you know it. I'm willing to bet that you don't really believe your own assertions.

No, I'm not. Please, point it out how its bullshit.

I honestly, truly believe this.

If what I believe is reality is correct, you'll be dead. If this is all just an illusion, you'll be fine.

You would perceive me dying, and I would perceive my own death. But the presence would still, as always, exist.

By 'fine', you mean not dead. If this is all an illusion, then certainly if I perceived myself killing myself I would perceive my death.

But, the presence is. It cannot end, it has always been, it is.

Oh, but I'm not going to kill myself. Today anyways.

Questions for Obbe:

Why are you debating with all these illusionary people, on a message board that is also an illusion, from a keyboard that's an illusion, on a network of internet connections that's an illusion? Cui bono?

If you really, truly believe that all these things that most people consider reality is nothing more than an illusion, and if the only thing you personally can attest to is "I AM" ... then why aren't you just reveling in your own presence, unconcerned about how the rest of us are getting along?

We are, after all, merely illusions. Why put forth the effort? Are you feeding your sense of false reality just to have something to type?

I don't think you truly are buying into your own spiel. Also, Obbe - what is the benefit of writing off what we perceive as the reality of the Universe? If that benefit is understanding (as you put it) that "I AM" is the only truth out there, then it sure is perplexing why you waste so much precious time and exert so many laborious keystrokes into discussing it.

Why are you debating with all these illusionary people, on a message board that is also an illusion, from a keyboard that's an illusion, on a network of internet connections that's an illusion? Cui bono?

Because even if my enjoyment is merely an illusion, I still choose to recognize it one way or the other. I enjoy experiencing these discussions. And its for the benefit of all.

...why aren't you just reveling in your own presence, unconcerned about how the rest of us are getting along?

We are, after all, merely illusions. Why put forth the effort? Are you feeding your sense of false reality just to have something to type?

As I have said before, you can take the opposite route and decided that all is truth...that is equivalent to the tenth dimension, which is equivalent to what I claim to be true reality.

I believe it is very possible that everything I perceive, illusion or reality, is actually myself, or God to be more accurate. Another perception of the maya. I'm perceiving myself perceiving another form of myself.

By spewing my spiel, I create possibilities within the amount of reality I can currently perceive. One of those possibilities is, obviously, nonacceptance. I believe another can be peace. All possibilities are contained within this God.

It comes down to choice. I choose to do this.

Someplace else, I don't.

I don't think you truly are buying into your own spiel.

You would be wrong in thinking that.

Also, Obbe - what is the benefit of writing off what we perceive as the reality of the Universe? If that benefit is understanding (as you put it) that "I AM" is the only truth out there, then it sure is perplexing why you waste so much precious time and exert so many laborious keystrokes into discussing it.

Because I choose to. What does understanding the only truth have to do with not interacting with illusion?

Careful, Obbe -

You're veering over into the reality zone that the rest of us share if you are going to be a participant in it. And how could one be a part of something that they don't even recognize as being real?

Just admit it: You have no choice but to interact with these "illusions". Why? Because it's reality, and try as you might, you can't escape it.

You can type the word "illusion" until your fingers turn blue, but I've got news for you: If you truly practiced what you preached, you'd have no use for any of this at all.

"As I have said before, you can take the opposite route and decided that all is truth...that is equivalent to the tenth dimension, which is equivalent to what I claim to be true reality.

I believe it is very possible that everything I perceive, illusion or reality, is actually myself, or God to be more accurate. Another perception of the maya. I'm perceiving myself perceiving another form of myself.

By spewing my spiel, I create possibilities within the amount of reality I can currently perceive. One of those possibilities is, obviously, nonacceptance. I believe another can be peace. All possibilities are contained within this God.

It comes down to choice. I choose to do this.

Someplace else, I don't."

Alright, that's enough.

I don't believe you actually think any of this meaningless crap is real. I think it's more likely that you're a troll, trying a new spin on the old "religious nut" play. If this is the case, I commend you for your originality, because really you were playing it pretty subtle for awhile there.

If you truly practiced what you preached

But I don't, nor do I claim to. Like I said, the enlightened individual would not recognize anything. He would 'be'.

I simply believe this is whats true.

You have no choice

I disagree with that.

how could one be a part of something that they don't even recognize as being real?

Like I said...you could perceive every possibility as being real, and would arrive at the same conclusion.

Alright, that's enough.

I don't believe you actually think any of this meaningless crap is real.

Whatever. Then stop talking to me.

I stand by it.

Reality is meaningless crap, and isn't real. Or all possibilities are true.

Same conclusion.

"Whatever. Then stop talking to me.

I stand by it."

You're in every other thread, bub. Hijacking and derailing shit into the guardrails.

"Reality is meaningless crap, and isn't real. Or all possibilities are true."

You know it's sad, that I've actually known people who believe pointless nonsense like that. However, you aren't one of them, and your reaction to me seems to indicate that.

"Same conclusion."

You're going to get more and more random until you're just one big non-sequiter running around the forum, aren't ya? I await your impending meltdown.

You're in every other thread, bub. Hijacking and derailing shit into the guardrails.

Hahaha, and I thought you were going to stop 'helping' me.

You know it's sad, that I've actually known people who believe pointless nonsense like that. However, you aren't one of them, and your reaction to me seems to indicate that.

How is that sad? Both represent truth.

Again, if you think I am trolling, stop talking to me. I would do the same to someone I thought was a troll.

Or are you trying to prove something to reassure yourself?

I await your impending meltdown.

???

"Hahaha, and I thought you were going to stop 'helping' me."

Helping you? That's nutty, I never had any intention of helping you. From your first posts I assumed you were already far beyond any help I could provide; now I'm just fucking with you for pure entertainment because I know you're a troll.

"How is that sad? Both represent truth."

Yay! Everything is truth! Do I get a gold star?

"Again, if you think I am trolling, stop talking to me. I would do the same to someone I thought was a troll."

Nope, when I see a troll I have fun with them first.

"Or are you trying to prove something to reassure yourself?"

I knew a troll once that eventually admitted to having a textfile of pre-typed responses that he'd just copy and paste into a response so everything he said would have a very random quality to it. Is that what you're doing?

I'm just fucking with you for pure entertainment because I know you're a troll.

I'm not, but I am glad we're speaking again. :)

How do you think you are fucking with me?

Is that what you're doing?

Sometimes I'll go back a few replies and re-read things I've already typed, but no, I do not have preplanned responses.

Nor do I see why having them would mean anything, or what it has to do with your efforts it making sure I am wrong.

I am asked why I interact with this illusion...now I ask you this: If you believe I am wrong, or just a troll, why interact with me?

I am asked why I interact with this illusion...

You were asked why you interacted with this illusion because it seems peculiar that someone would interact with something they didn't feel was really there.

That would be like someone walking down the streets and yelling over a loudspeaker "PINK ELEPHANTS DON'T EXIST!" ... yet all the while, acting as though they had pink elephants hovering around them, and interacting with them as though they really and truly did exist!

And you wonder why you're suspected of not really believing what it is you claim to be the truth.

now I ask you this: If you believe I am wrong, or just a troll, why interact with me?

People interacting with you isn't quite as peculiar as YOU interacting with something that you claim is not real. If we all asserted "Obbe is an illusion, not real" - then it would seem ultra-peculiar and ultra-silly to interact with you at all. In fact, it would seem like we were bullshitting both ourselves and everyone we asserted "Obbe is an illusion" to ... which is silly, pointless troll-like behavior.

You were asked why you interacted with this illusion because it seems peculiar that someone would interact with something they didn't feel was really there.

Although people enjoying their experiance while on psychedelic, hallucination-inducing drugs doesn't seem peculiar at all.

I can't convince anyone what I say is truth, nor that I truly believe it is the truth. Oh well, I still choose to try. Possibly on an alternative world-line I've succeeded.

People interacting with you isn't quite as peculiar as YOU interacting with something that you claim is not real.

Agreeable, but it too raises eyebrows about the persons intentions.

...it would seem like we were bullshitting both ourselves and everyone...

'We' already do. 'Reality' is, at best, only a consensual perception.

Although people enjoying their experiance while on psychedelic, hallucination-inducing drugs doesn't seem peculiar at all.


I see, said the blindwoman. The drugs got a hold of you, did they?

(If this is really Rizzo's alternate internet personality, I won't be a bit suprised.) :cool:

Agreeable, but it too raises eyebrows about the persons intentions.

Raises eyebrows, how? The intentions of those who question you are to ask how your actions here can be so utterly contradictory to your own statements.

If this is really Rizzo's alternate internet personality, I won't be a bit suprised

No, but I'll take that as a compliment. I have much respect for Rizzo ;).

...your actions here can be so utterly contradictory to your own statements.

I do my best to explain. I choose to.

I am agnostic. I make no claims one way or the other. I consider claims of there being a god as baseless as claims of a god's existence being bullshit since neither can back what they say with any facts... you know, science, logic, reason and all that.

Would be riding the pine then as it were huh?

So you really shouldnt argue just nod your head at points people make who believe one way or the other right?

I believe science has shown the christian god to be full of shit through the many contradictions of his written word. I beleive the christian god has gotten much smaller and now resides in gaps left by science. I believe science will continue to stamp out backwards supernatural thinking.

I believe you cannot prove or disprove god the same way you cannot prove or disprove my feces talks to me when nobody is around. Would you have to agree that my own turd talking to me has an equal chance of being true as it doesnt? You would have to right?

I think being an agnostic you have to say

"Nice points, good sir, they may or may not be true, I make no ascertain one way or the other, I am wasting my time being here because I agree and disagree with all parties present. I sir am a living cop out"

So you really shouldnt argue just nod your head at points people make who believe one way or the other right?

Absolutely not. As a person with a lack of belief, discussion and debate allow me to explore the options without committing to either. As an agnostic, I can play devil's advocate and fill an empty seat in an argument. More importantly, since I consider the truth an important aspect of belief, it allows me to correct people on either side of the argument without being placed in a conflict of belief.

I believe you cannot prove or disprove god the same way you cannot prove or disprove my feces talks to me when nobody is around. Would you have to agree that my own turd talking to me has an equal chance of being true as it doesnt? You would have to right?

When someone constructs a Bible promoting the worship of your turd and turns it into a successful religion lasting thousands of years, I will acknowledge that this is a valid analogy. So no, it doesn't have an equal chance of being true, unless you believe in stuff like possession.

I think being an agnostic you have to say

"Nice points, good sir, they may or may not be true, I make no ascertain one way or the other, I am wasting my time being here because I agree and disagree with all parties present. I sir am a living cop out"

You think wrong, for the aforestated reasons. Additionally, I enjoy debate and entertainment is more than reason enough to argue all by itself.

Copping out implies that either atheism or religion are rational and founded enough to waste my time committing to them. Prove it instead of demanding blind following like religions assholes over thousands of years. Oh, wait, you can't.

hahahaha

---------------------

I believe BrokeProphet has no idea what God is.

Absolutely not. As a person with a lack of belief, discussion and debate allow me to explore the options without committing to either. As an agnostic, I can play devil's advocate and fill an empty seat in an argument. More importantly, since I consider the truth an important aspect of belief, it allows me to correct people on either side of the argument without being placed in a conflict of belief.

That is the definition of riding the fence. Very political of you. This way you can be right...(cannot be proven or disproven)...and tell people they are wrong (prove it). So we pretty much have the whole of your ideas here. You dont need to speak about it anymore. Seriously. We got it.

When someone constructs a Bible promoting the worship of your turd and turns it into a successful religion lasting thousands of years, I will acknowledge that this is a valid analogy. So no, it doesn't have an equal chance of being true, unless you believe in stuff like possession.

Ahem.....as an agnostic I am sure you will be able to appreciate what I am about to say in regards to my feces speaking to me.......Prove it.

There is actually more evidence for my turd talking. You see the bible itself is one of the worst enemies to the belief in god. It has so many contradictions and loopholes and ultimately proves itself to be an astrotheological egyptian work that was stolen.

Since my talking turd lacks this evidence against it...it must be more true. FACT IS my turd talking to me when nobody else is around C A N N O T be proven or disproven and this the exact SAME as your take on God. PERIOD.

You think wrong, for the aforestated reasons. Additionally, I enjoy debate and entertainment is more than reason enough to argue all by itself.

You believe in nothing. Where is the enjoyment of the debate. This way you can be right...(cannot be proven or disproven)...and tell people they are wrong (prove it). So we pretty much have the whole of your ideas here. You dont need to speak about it anymore. Seriously. We got it.

Copping out implies that either atheism or religion are rational and founded enough to waste my time committing to them. Prove it instead of demanding blind following like religions assholes over thousands of years. Oh, wait, you can't.

Nothing proven through science can be considered a blind leap of faith.

If you do not understand that there is a huge difference in begging someone to believe in something they cannot see, taste, touch, feel, smell, hear etc. and asking someone to accept scientific principle then you have failed at thinking this through.
BIG difference between blindly following religion (which is TRULY blindly following) and accepting scientific discoveries which seem to injure God his word and his domain shrinking the big guy down enough that he can fit into gaps in knowledge.

But you are right. I cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt gods exists or doesnt. You are right. That is why you are agnostic b/c no matter how lame it might be you are right.

Fact is you can build a case against one and not the other. You can use science to pick apart various aspects of what christians believe and what is written in the bible. Science has picked and poked holes in religion for 400 years now or better. You cannot take religion and build a case against science. I know it is not proof but if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck....

hahahaha

---------------------

I believe BrokeProphet has no idea what God is.

Shit man let me put it in terms you can understand....

The illusion that you believe I am an illusion who has no illusions about what the illusion of god (which is an illusiony illusion) is or is not. Furthermore, the illusion that you are reading the illusion I am writing about the belief you have about my not believing in the illusions mentioned before.

I think that should suffice for you...

No point in engaging you in any real dialogue anyway. Oh come on, we have been through this already. I am a realist. You are not. I have more proof for existence than you do for non-existence. Even with your ephemeral arguments you lose.

Oh come on, we have been through this already. I am a realist. You are not. I have more proof for existence than you do for non-existence. Even with your ephemeral arguments you lose.

So, are you saying experiance is truth? Experience is evidence?

Hahaha, then yeah, you have about as much 'evidence' as the crazy person who sees 20 people in his cell, or a person on hallucinogens. The things they see are just as real as the things you do.

BTW, my argument isn't non-existence.

So, are you saying experiance is truth? Experience is evidence?

Hahaha, then yeah, you have about as much 'evidence' as the crazy person who sees 20 people in his cell, or a person on hallucinogens. The things they see are just as real as the things you do.

BTW, my argument isn't non-existence.

Nobody (inculding you) really knows what the FUCK your argument is.

I have already explained to you your burden of proof for your abstract and inane claims. I have NOTHING to prove and you have everything to prove (which you utterly fail to come even a cunt hair close to doing)

Nobody (inculding you) really knows what the FUCK your argument is.

I do, you just completely miss it each and every time.

My argument is for what God truly is, what your existence truly is, what reality truly is, in their most basic and most complex forms. They are all the same thing.

I have already explained to you your burden of proof for your abstract and inane claims.

I have explained it is impossible to prove either of our claims. I have explained how it comes down to a matter of definition.

Are illusions distortions from what you know to be true, or are experiences and all possibility's real?

Either way you end up with the same result...the state, the presence represented by 'I AM', awareness of nothing, the void, Dimension Zero, the Tenth Dimension, 'being', God, etc.

This is what reality is.

cunt hair

Why do you try so hard to be an asshole?

Hmmmm? Hahaha.

You are a waste of time.

You are a waste of time.

You've never had to waste your time on me. You've always had the opportunity to ignore my posts, as how you just did.

Mentioning that I waste time is a clear indication of your inability to understand the truest, most complete form of reality I have attempted to describe over the weeks.

Why do you try so hard to seem like an asshole? For what benefit? :)

You've never had to waste your time on me. You've always had the opportunity to ignore my posts, as how you just did.

Mentioning that I waste time is a clear indication of your inability to understand the truest, most complete form of reality I have attempted to describe over the weeks.

Why do you try so hard to seem like an asshole? For what benefit? :)

Your fortune cookie bullshit grows tiresome. That is why I am such a dick to you.

You have not attempted to descirbe ANYTHING. You pop off one or two lines of bullshit that sounds ridiculous then beg someone to ask you questions about it.

WHY? So that you can feel like this teacher to us. So that you can open our minds enough to realize that everything is an illusion of our own making? You are an ego driven pretentious cocksucker that is why I have zero problem being a dick to you.

Your fortune cookie bullshit grows tiresome.

And you have always had the option of not posting and allowing the discussion to die. Yet you don't. And you can't deny what I am saying, it is the only thing you can know.

You pop off one or two lines of bullshit that sounds ridiculous then beg someone to ask you questions about it.

So I enjoy discussion. You, an atheist, pop into a religious forum and bring forth discussion and comments that beg for an argument you know you'll win. Whats the excuse, besides your hate of Christianity?

Can you argue what I am saying about truth? I've already explained the meaning. Do you feel it is wrong?

WHY? So that you can feel like this teacher to us.

I'm not teaching anything, I am showing you all of which you already know. All that you can know.

So that you can open our minds enough to realize that everything is an illusion of our own making?

Thats one way of describing it.

You make threads like this to, ahem, 'open our minds up' and realize things people may have believed their entire life's is bullshit?

Very constructive.

You are an ego driven pretentious cocksucker that is why I have zero problem being a dick to you.

The feeling is mutual. :)

Your a nonsense cunt Obbe and I think you know it.

Your a nonsense cunt Obbe and I think you know it.

You can't defend your beliefs, and I think you know it.

So I enjoy discussion.

What discussion. I have yet to see you do ANYTHING but pop of fortune cookie one liner bullshit. WHAT ELSE IS THERE TO YOU?

Can you argue what I am saying about truth? I've already explained the meaning. Do you feel it is wrong?

You have not explained anything beyond what I can read on a fortune cookie. That is what I am gonna call your religious beliefs. Fortune Cookism.

You make threads like this to, ahem, 'open our minds up' and realize things people may have believed their entire life's is bullshit?

Very constructive.

Getting people in my community to stop persecuting other people based on the belief space daddy who will party with your ghost when you die for eternity is constructive.

Convincing the religious right in America to allow stem cell research to help people IS constructive. Promoting science an rational secular humanism is constructive.

What discussion. I have yet to see you do ANYTHING but pop of fortune cookie one liner bullshit. WHAT ELSE IS THERE TO YOU?

There have been discussions at length here. I have shown how you cannot know anything more then 'I AM', how all experience can be considered illusion.

Fortune Cookism.

Hahahaha.

Getting people in my community to stop persecuting other people based on the belief space daddy who will party with your ghost when you die for eternity is constructive.

They believe saving atheists from eternal damnation so they can party with their space daddy is for eternity when they all die is constructive too.

Its all perspective. I've been pointing that out.

I've also been pointing out what true reality is.

There have been discussions at length here. I have shown how you cannot know anything more then 'I AM', how all experience can be considered illusion.

They believe saving atheists from eternal damnation so they can party with their space daddy is for eternity when they all die is constructive too.

You have shown NO SUCH THING. You have speculated ...... SPECULATED ...... many things but you have SHOWN or PROVEN nothing.

Christians may believe that but history has shown that line of thinking to be ANYTHING but constructive to society.

...PROVEN nothing.

Nothing can be proven. But theres one thing that can be known.

You know 'I AM' experiencing illusion or truth.

'I AM' is all you know.

Christians may believe that but history has shown that line of thinking to be ANYTHING but constructive to society.

I agree. But do you agree that our seemingly consensual perception of this past is no more then an illusion to what we know to be true??

Now, is your practice actually constructive? Are you changing anyones minds, are they bettering the world in any way?

Or is it just stirring shit up?

The people who do the most 'damage' would never change their beliefs, and most of the others just live by the same morals you believe in.

I agree. But do you agree that our seemingly consensual perception of this past is no more then an illusion to what we know to be true??

Now, is your practice actually constructive? Are you changing anyones minds, are they bettering the world in any way?

Or is it just stirring shit up?

The people who do the most 'damage' would never change their beliefs, and most of the others just live by the same morals you believe in.

Your illusion theory is YOURS to prove in any way. I have explained that to you.

As far as stirring shit up.....yes that is what I am doing. Assholes like me must be doing something right b/c we have 20% of AMericans under 30 consider themselves to be secular.

Yes my practice is constructive for the aforementioned reasons.

You CANNOT debate me. LOL. You cannot. Any good points I make you claim are illusions. Your pathetic.

Your illusion theory is YOURS to prove in any way. I have explained that to you.

I have explained that nothing can be proven.

Disagree?

Prove yourself!

You CANNOT debate me. Any good points I make you claim are illusions.

You cannot debate me. All of your claims are illusions, and I have described, many times, why.

You cannot deny the truth that I imply.

Your pathetic.

Again, the feeling is mutual.

Your ideas are very basic and simple.

Your ideas are very basic and simple.

Why thank you.

BrokeProphet, it's pretty clear this guy is a troll, his entire act is too nonsensical even by religious standards.

BrokeProphet, it's pretty clear this guy is a troll, his entire act is too nonsensical even by religious standards.

UH OH!

Hop off the bridge ya wee little sheep!

That Obbe Troll shore looks a-miiiightly hungry!

BrokeProphet, it's pretty clear this guy is a troll, his entire act is too nonsensical even by religious standards.

I like feeding trolls.

I get what he is saying. It is very simple. So simple a child could and did think of it, right Obbe ;)

This is the last snack I AM (get it) gonna feed you okay little tyke?

I like feeding trolls.

Some trolls have an everlasting appetite, and constantly shit out nonsense.

I get what he is saying. It is very simple.

So simple its true?

child...little tyke

Whats with the child-insults?

If it matters that much to you, I am 19. I am probably still younger then you.

But, amusingly, much less childlike.

So simple its true?



Whats with the child-insults?

If it matters that much to you, I am 19. I am probably still younger then you.

But, amusingly, much less childlike.

Whatever you need to tell yourself kiddo.

Whatever you need to tell yourself kiddo.

Hahahaha.

Like I said, hilarious.

You cannot deny what I am saying, cannot prove what you say, and so you resort to stupid insults.

I mean no insult. I dont. I just mean to point out that you are a child and your incorrect simple belief system WILL change I promise you that.

I mean no insult. I dont. I just mean to point out that you are a child and your incorrect simple belief system WILL change I promise you that.

Whatever man. I don't know how old you are, but there sure are a lot of older generations from which I would be described as a child. I wonder why someone as old as that would be wasting their time taunting the few Christians on totse?

I really doubt my belief system will change, as it is the only thing known to be true, and can be found beneath the dogmatic crap, at the core of most religions....which have lasted thousands of years, so it seems.

That is the definition of riding the fence. Very political of you. This way you can be right...(cannot be proven or disproven)...and tell people they are wrong (prove it). So we pretty much have the whole of your ideas here. You dont need to speak about it anymore. Seriously. We got it.

You're missing the mark, but just barely. Two points to be made here.
When you say "That way you can be right and tell people they are wrong"... you seem to imply that I'm doing it solely out of some childish desire to get over on everyone else, and that's simply incorrect.

I'm not a preacher for agnosticism. If it makes me "right" then all the better - because my desire for truth means not falling into the trap of claiming insight I don't have into the nature of the universe.

By the way, lose the "we got it". You're speaking for nobody but yourself, and you're acting like the kidiot you claim Obbe to be.

Ahem.....as an agnostic I am sure you will be able to appreciate what I am about to say in regards to my feces speaking to me.......Prove it.

Prove they speak to you. Get a tape recorder. I'm not taking your word for it any more than I'm taking a Christian's word for it that god speaks to them, or an atheist's word for it that there is no god.

There is actually more evidence for my turd talking. You see the bible itself is one of the worst enemies to the belief in god. It has so many contradictions and loopholes and ultimately proves itself to be an astrotheological egyptian work that was stolen.

That's because people take it as a single work rather than a collection of works. Ultimately it boils down to the same thing ... your word for it that you have a talking turd vs. millions of people through the ages claiming they have a talking god. If I were going to use your "common knowledge" argument here, I'd say that makes them more credible than you. But they're not. There's no evidence for either of you which puts you in exactly the same amount of evidence = 0.

Since my talking turd lacks this evidence against it...it must be more true. FACT IS my turd talking to me when nobody else is around C A N N O T be proven or disproven and this the exact SAME as your take on God. PERIOD.

I'm not an anti-turd and see no need to disprove the existence of you're talking turd. You define yourself as a the antithesis of a belief. That's a waste of time. Prove your turd talks. Prove it doesn't. Prove god exists. Prove he doesn't. All exactly the same. Unproven. Which puts you on equal footing with the believers.

[QUOTE]You believe in nothing. Where is the enjoyment of the debate. This way you can be right...(cannot be proven or disproven)...and tell people they are wrong (prove it).

If the only "debate" I ever had was about Proving God, then you'd have a legitimate point. However, that's insanely limited, and would be a waste of my time, therefore I don't. An example? Sure.

Say a Beliver makes a claim about something in some religious text and I dispute it. Maybe I'm right, maybe what I thought I knew was wrong. Debate and discussion allows me to learn from that.

You could say that in the end it all boils down to the question of "Is there or isn't there a god?" and that all the rest of the argument is meaningless. Maybe that's sufficient for you, but it's not for me.

Nothing proven through science can be considered a blind leap of faith.

"God does not exist" has not been proven by science and therefore saying so is a blind leap of faith. Like the believers, you can't prove it.

To be fair, I should point out that it's a bitch to prove a negative, but the believers cover their asses on this pretty well. This means that if you're going to make a claim to the contrary, the burden of proof is on you. Why make the claim? Simply refuse to accept their word for it and demand proof. But for whatever reason, you have to claim personal insight into the universe that you do not have. You don't know there is no God. Maybe all the religions got it wrong. You don't know, neither do I, and most people claiming to are probably either deluded, hung up on their own beliefs or outright lying.

If you do not understand that there is a huge difference in begging someone to believe in something they cannot see, taste, touch, feel, smell, hear etc. and asking someone to accept scientific principle then you have failed at thinking this through.

There is nothing in scientific principle that says God cannot exist. Given our incomplete scientific knowledge, I would think you'd understand that. Certainly, science does counter the BIBLE, but then... the Bible doesn't prove shit.

There's the challenge. Show how science disproves a Creator. Not the Bible, but God, or the Creator of all that is.

Fact is you can build a case against one and not the other. You can use science to pick apart various aspects of what christians believe and what is written in the bible. Science has picked and poked holes in religion for 400 years now or better. You cannot take religion and build a case against science. I know it is not proof but if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck....

Too bad it doesn't walk or talk like a duck, right? You're making the mistake of belieiving that a bunch of manmade constructs like bibles and religion have anything to do with proving God. We know for a fact that men made these things - yet you argue against them as if that somehow builds a case against a God. If there is no God, then clearly mankind fucked up along the way, and fucked up huge. With that premise driving your argument, how can you use a manmade fuckup as a case against God?

That was my point. You have to believe in all possibilities. You have to believe in the possible living elvis, little green men, bigfoot, loch ness monster, santa claus, and Jesus.

You contend that until bigfoot and nessy are disproven (which many videos have been proven to be fake ) there remains the possiblity that they exist. I can see that and your point. I however believe bigfoot and nessy to be fakes.

You contend that until god is disproven (which science has not yet done, but has made god shrink and disproved or at least raised serious questions and debate about MUCH of the bible) there remains the possiblity that god exists.

I find your practice (while utimately correct, yeah I know) to be pitifully simple. I understand it is the scientific approach but here is the problem with it.

GOD WILL NEVER BE DISPROVEN!!!

I have a fire breathing dragon that lives in my garage. This dragon is incorporal, invisible, and gives off no heat. Disprove my dragon.....EVER.

You see the problem here? The horrible enterprise that is the END result (the whole of religion and not the individuals that comprise it) of the judeo-christian religions will never cease if you contend that their invisible man in the clouds could possibly be true.

That was my point. You have to believe in all possibilities. You have to believe in the possible living elvis, little green men, bigfoot, loch ness monster, santa claus, and Jesus.

You contend that until bigfoot and nessy are disproven (which many videos have been proven to be fake ) there remains the possiblity that they exist. I can see that and your point. I however believe bigfoot and nessy to be fakes.

Sure, agnosticism leaves itself more open (and happens to be tailored to my supernatural interests as well) to possibilities. Yeah, even such horrible possibilities as talking turds. But there's a silver lining to that, at least for me. Mysteries are one of the great things life has to offer, and we will never solve them all. The origin of all existence? Not even science has much hope of pulling that off in anything resembling the reasonably near future.

You contend that until god is disproven (which science has not yet done, but has made god shrink and disproved or at least raised serious questions and debate about MUCH of the bible) there remains the possiblity that god exists.

Yes and no. Science hasn't made god shrink, it's made Christianity and religion in general shrink. I make a very large distinction between what religion and creatorgod, because well... mankind clearly doesn't have all the facts, and religion is man.

I find your practice (while utimately correct, yeah I know) to be pitifully simple.

You have my sympathy then. The KISS principle serves quite well when utilized properly.

I understand it is the scientific approach but here is the problem with it.

GOD WILL NEVER BE DISPROVEN!!!

Why is that a problem? As there is no reasonable basis for claims for/against the existence of "God", it renders God completely irrelevant.

I have a fire breathing dragon that lives in my garage. This dragon is incorporal, invisible, and gives off no heat. Disprove my dragon.....EVER.

Yup, proving negatives is a bitch. You get no sympathy from me for trying, however, because it doesn''t deserve the effort you put into it. Which is why you won't see me trying to prove/disprove the existence of your dragon (or god) EVER. It's a waste of time.

You see the problem here? The horrible enterprise that is the END result (the whole of religion and not the individuals that comprise it) of the judeo-christian religions will never cease if you contend that their invisible man in the clouds could possibly be true.

That assumes that me turning atheist will make it cease. Not in this lifetime. Oh, it's the PRINCIPLE of the thing, you say? How is it even worth my time to contradict or disprove a claim they can't prove? Is it worth selling out my integrity to say that it can't possibly be true when it certainly can? Just because it isn't very damned likely and in some respects is outright stupid? No.

You feel different? Goodforya.

"Science hasn't made god shrink"

Yes it has, in addition to having made god be redefined every 12 seconds by idiot believers that have fewer and fewer places to run and hide.

Yes it has, in addition to having made god be redefined every 12 seconds by idiot believers that have fewer and fewer places to run and hide.

The problem with that comment is that it gives way too much away to those who believe. Since science cannot disprove the existence of god, and can only attack the more ludicrous elements of faith, all you manage to achieve is making god "shrink", not "killing him completely".

A ridiculous effort, if you don't believe in him in the first place.

Thats because, they do... Atheist seem to be majority players here... Most of the info on this site contains rebellious stuff (especially the drugs and explosions section) therefore contains rebellious people. A rebel without a cause, however, there is more than rebelling against God its society and the way you see things.. Its an illusion but that illusion is not from God but from Evil itself...

The concept of atheists "rebelling against God" is paradoxical: How can you rebel agianst something you don't believe exists?

Anyway, I'd say the high proportion of atheists vs. retards is due to Totse's skewness to the portion of the population with higher levels of intelligence and cycnical awareness.

You think your so good... Your intelligence can carry you so far beyond leaps and bounds... Allow me to rephrase what I mean "You rebel against society [since most of society still has a religious conviction]." People stuck in the awkward days of Adolescence... Theres alot more at stake than "God V No God" its a human thing, to know the Truth and whenever truth is shown the ignorant want to manipulate the truth to serve itself... But you wouldnt worry about that so as long as you can prove that human Logic is absolute... If man is flawed than everything about him is flawed including the way he thinks!

The truth is that the idea of God cannot be destroyed. The reason is that it’s non-falsifiable, you cannot disprove a negative, and when all refutations of theological proofs for the existence of God are demonstrated, the theist does not care as he can always take refuge in faith.

The only way to combat religion is an amalgam of anthropology, textual history and historical sociology, to demonstrate the fact that the religious text in question is nothing but a collection of heavily edited stories, and that these stories are the creation of the traditions that surround them.

The categories atheist and agnostic should be rejected too, which is not to say the beliefs themselves should be rejected. They give the idea God an air of importance it does not deserve. There’s no evidence for the existence of unicorns, yet if any evidence did appear, evidently most honest people would accept their existence as a truth, yet no one I know calls themselves an aunicornist or unicornostic. No one questions this lack of belief and categorizes it, simply because there aren’t large groups of people who believe in unicorns with a lot of social and political power. I think Nietzsche is correct when he says it is the ruling class who create the etymologies; thus we should throw off this categorization as a sign of discontent with the religiously influenced societies in power today.


If man is flawed than everything about him is flawed including the way he thinks!
This is the division fallacy.

We see the world in a subjective manner and we see the world in a manner that serves us because of that, we do not see the world objectively because, all we care about is the sense input we get from the world and how it affects us. This is why a camera if it could see would see more than what a human sees! Your eyes receive more information and your brain only use the information that is most self-fulfilling sometimes to the point of utter denial or wishful thinking... This is why our perception of reality is flawed and cannot see what things really are...

If evolution is taken into consideration, then it can be argued, and has been argued, that since the point of life is to survive and reproduce, the closer our representation of reality is to that of reality as it really is, the more likely we are to see all dangers and combat them; hence it could be argued that how we see the world mirror’s the world very accurately.

At the same time, seeing the world in a way that serves you does not equal not seeing the world as it really is, as that may serve you; as the previous paragraph attempted to demonstrate. The fact that people can reach the point of utter denial suggests that there were some truth they were unwilling to recognize in the first place, and does not support your argument either.

And you believe that all you are is a survival and reproducing machine? If that is the case than you are not human you are dead. Your are an intellectual machine who is limited by this plane of existence. It has been argued and continues to be argued that there are alternate realms of existence and that you are leading a life in that realm and in another realm.

God must transcend all that is seen and unseen... He must know all that is, was and shall been known and must know what is unknown. Atheist seem to have this problem that the Religious text are BS. When in fact there not even if you look at the Bible PURELY AS A STORYBOOK you would know what is expected of you. Even if you read metaphorically speaking and NOT TAKE THE LITERALIST P.O.V. You would see that the Bible has symbolic undertones.

Atheism is not exactly a picture perfect way of thought either. You can call it any kind of fallacy you want. But since man is imperfect than the way man sees and perceives is imperfect and because man acts and thinks on his perceptions than his actions and thoughts are imperfect ALSO.

To conclude, we can argue about God, Godless, Morality, Life After Death all we want there will always be something to pick at. But this forum is populated almost entirely of Atheist

And you believe that all you are is a survival and reproducing machine? If that is the case than you are not human you are dead.

I never said that’s all a human is, I said that’s the point of life.

You can call it any kind of fallacy you want. But since man is imperfect than the way man sees and perceives is imperfect and because man acts and thinks on his perceptions than his actions and thoughts are imperfect ALSO.

If you don't want to be taken seriously, then keep using the fallacy of division.

"You would see that the Bible has symbolic undertones."

So does most fiction.