Instead of searching for a way,

Simply experience being away.

That didn't even make sense

In relation to what?

Clowns. The bike is simply too big for comfort

In relation to what?

In relation to you being a total cunt.

Look, I know you feel very intellectual and philosophical, like perhaps you have stumbled upon some new abstract way of thinking, when you spew forth your nonsense like verbal diahrrea, but come on, enough is enough.

You make no sense. EVER. This makes you a cunt. Come on you have to realize this. It is pathetic. Kill yourself.

You make no sense

Hahahaha.

No, you just fail to understand.

Hahahaha.

No, you just fail to understand.

I am the only one who fails to understand?

You fail to explain ANYTHING.

I have yet to hear you attempt to seriously explain anything. You answer a question posed to you with another question. You dodge the heart of the matter every single time with some abstract notion or just pure nonsense.

You fail to explain ANYTHING.

You fail to explain ANYTHING.

Ask and it shall be explained.

What do I mean in this thread?

Well think about what I mean by a 'way', in terms of religions, and other attempts at discovering truth.

Think about what 'away' means.

And think about the only truth.

Yet again you FAIL to expalin ANYTHING in your above post.

I am going to refer to you from here on out as a waste of time. I will call you WOT for short.

I understand his point, and it's a good point.

Everyone, be more like Obbe.

_____
www.theadvertforum.com

There's no advantage to speaking poetically and in cryptic language. The reason ancient religious and philosophical texts endure and are so valued is that they explain deep answers, not that they simply give them.

Without being more clear, I could conclude that you're telling me to vacation more often, and nothing more. Being vague and trying to sound lofty and all that really does make you sound like a cunt.

Instead of searching for a way,

Simply experience being away.

Religion and Truth, aren't they mutually exclusive?

There's no advantage to speaking poetically and in cryptic language.

There are many, actually, such as not having to type out a large explanation.

For some, the meaning I am trying to communicate within those two simple sentences will jump out directly at them.

For others, it won't. I'm still here, this wasn't something written thousands of years ago. I'm right here to answer any questions.

They just have to be asked first.

Without being more clear, I could conclude that you're telling me to vacation more often, and nothing more.

And perhaps I am. Without asking, you'd never know.

People want truth. People search for truth. They look for a way.

They look for it in organized religions, they look for it around them, they compare their experiences, they conduct experiments and they make consensual conclusions.

However, no matter the method, they do not find truth. There is only one truth, and even recognition of it would be a contradiction to its truth.

Simply experience being away (http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=define%3A+away&btnG=Search&meta=).

What do I mean? Instead of searching for truth within this illusion, leave it behind. Your experience of nothing is truth!

Yet again you FAIL to expalin ANYTHING in your above post.

Did you ask anything?

I am going to refer to you from here on out as a waste of time. I will call you WOT for short.

Freakin' weirdo.

Religion and Truth, aren't they mutually exclusive?

Is that not what I am saying?

I am including other methods of seeking truth as well.

GJ @ triple post.

So you're saying you try to say something profound in cryptic prose in two lines because you're too lazy to type out an explanation? You'll wait for people to ask the obvious questions before answering them?

I think it's a pretty common idea that you ought to answer questions that are going to come up in most peoples' minds without waiting for them to be asked. Krishna doesn't tell Arjuna to fight because he must, he explains to him why he must fight and how he is deluded and what ought to govern his actions.

Regardless of whether or not you are enlightened, or even smart, you are not a great philosopher or prophet or anything else if you fail to explain yourself in a way that is clear an complete. And don't give me the bullshit that what you said IS clear and complete; it's not. It's nonsense without further explanation, and you have been called out on that fact. Of course, you can continue to defend it with more high-and-mighty drivel, implying that it's everyone else's fault that they aren't getting anything meaningful from your words, but it's pointless and sounds more like trolling than anything else.

I think he means to separate yourself from all the material and illussory aspects of life. That which is the product of human selfishness. Be away from that and what you are left with is truth.

Good point bud, if I understand you correctly.

And as for the Flamie McFlamesters, relax will ya?

And no, Obbe is not enlightened. He's just a a seeker on the path looking for truth like us all. He may be arrogant or selfrighteous, but that doesnt mean you should insult his ideas. You should insult him directly.

So you're saying you try to say something profound in cryptic prose in two lines because you're too lazy to type out an explanation? You'll wait for people to ask the obvious questions before answering them?

Yes, because I am lazy, and because through interest is the best way to learn something.

As for the uninterested, I find it can get pretty hilarious :).

I think it's a pretty common idea that you ought to answer questions that are going to come up in most peoples' minds without waiting for them to be asked.

Obviously I prefer other methods.

And don't give me the bullshit that what you said IS clear and complete; it's not.

It is clear that others think otherwise.

It's nonsense without further explanation, and you have been called out on that fact.

Some will not understand, some will find it nonsense and in that case I will explain it. I have explained further above. If that is still not satisfactory, continue asking.

Of course, you can continue to defend it with more high-and-mighty drivel, implying that it's everyone else's fault that they aren't getting anything meaningful from your words, but it's pointless and sounds more like trolling than anything else.

I'm not blaming others for not understanding it.

You NEED people to ask you questions b/c that would indicate an interest in the bullshit you have to sell. Means they are more than likely gonna buy into it b/c you have peaked their curiousity with your fortune cookie one liners.

I have not asked you much of anything b/c I KNOW you are full of shit. I know that you are a pretentious cunt who likes to feel important when you are anything but.

If you want to be taken seriously by this community then outline your ideas and philosophy. But you dont do you? The reason someone has to show an interest in your fortune cookie BULLSHIT is so that you can make it up as you go along. So that you can feel important and wise as you anwer questions with shit so vague a horoscope writer would be embarrased to print it.

Your ego drives your bullshit. That is YOUR truth. 100%

ice cream

ice cream
it is the only truth

bananas is the way.

The above posts about fruit n' dairy having any truth are wrong, because you cannot know them to be real or not, all you can know is 'I AM' experiencing either truth or illusion.

If that is all you know to be true, then the fruit n' dairy would be considered illusions. Even recognition that 'I AM' is true is an illusion, if being is the only thing which is true.

So 'being', aware of nothing, is the truest reality.

You NEED people to ask you questions b/c that would indicate an interest in the bullshit you have to sell.

Everything is bullshit, Prophet.

I don't need it. I'm glad if people, like the people who have posted above you, find truth in the sentences and do not require or want help finding a meaning.

I'd prefer it if the uninterested just did not post a reply, like they should instead of flames, but I also find it pretty funny when you attempt to.

Interest is good, because it means you want to learn about that which you're interested in. Which makes it a lot easier for both parties.


Means they are more than likely gonna buy into it b/c you have peaked their curiousity with your fortune cookie one liners.

No, not really. Look at the above replies?

You come in with your threads like 'Atheist Domination', and other obvious attempts to start arguments which you are extremely confident about winning.

Why?

I have not asked you much of anything b/c I KNOW you are full of shit. I know that you are a pretentious cunt who likes to feel important when you are anything but.

Actually, we both know we can only know one thing. I don't even have to say it at this point.

Hahahahaha, both know....

Your ego drives your bullshit.

Unlike yours, huh?

Again, everything is bullshit.

At least the bullshit I spew actually represents truth :D.

You are filled with a digusting amount of bullshit. I despise coffee house psudeo-intellectuals like you more than Christians! At least the theist actually propose something. You have shit. You speak shit.

I could get your whole take on life from a fucking fortune cookie and you know it. As to what we know that we both know...I have no fucking idea, yet again, at what you are even trying to suppose.

I have to ignore you now. You offer everyone nothing. Cunt.

I could get your whole take on life from a fucking fortune cookie

You sound like thats a bad thing...

As to what we know that we both know...I have no fucking idea, yet again, at what you are even trying to suppose.

'I AM'.

I have to ignore you now. You offer everyone nothing. Cunt.

Hahaha, will you this time?

instead of searching for a way, (one of the many paths to the top of the mountain)

Simply experience being away. (Not taking any path to the top because the view is better when you're nowhere at all)

Is that what you're trying to say?

instead of searching for a way, (one of the many paths to the top of the mountain)

Simply experience being away. (Not taking any path to the top because the view is better when you're nowhere at all)

Is that what you're trying to say?

Considering that has the potential to lead to a happier experience, in my opinion.

I think I described what I meant best in this post (http://www.totse.com/community/showpost.php?p=8955115&postcount=13).

Basically, all these different methods of searching for truth are fruitless because they are all illusions to what truth really is.

And that truth is experienced by 'going away', entering the state I have described in other threads. This can be done through meditation, and has been for thousands of years...or so it appears :).

Truth at any moment is subjective. Religion would suggest you defer to someone else's views.
To search for truth you must ignore religion and communicate with your spirit.

Truth at any moment is subjective. Religion would suggest you defer to someone else's views.
To search for truth you must ignore religion and communicate with your spirit.

Or read a science book.

Or read a science book.

Theres only one truth.

Theres only one truth.

Is this your opinion or are you stating it as a fact?

Im kind of confused.

Everything is truth
because everything is an illusion
Truth is only an illusion

Theres only one truth.

But many different interpretations and ways of understanding it.

Everything is truth
because everything is an illusion
Truth is only an illusion

Follow through with your reasoning. You stopped thinking too quickly.

"Therefore?..."

Their are many paths up the mountain, some chose the well beaten path while others chose to go through many paths, and some make entirely new paths. Every path is a version of the truth. God has many faces but all of these faces are one.

I have truth:

It is not possible for - X to exist and not exist at the same time.
I AM and the lack of I AM cannot exist at the same time.
A pony is not a crocodile.

Everything is truth
because everything is an illusion
Truth is only an illusion

Are you stating that 'X can be true and false at the same time' or that truth is simply never attainable and we should rid it from our vocabulary? On the latter, I would argue that even if you believe truth is an invalid concept, it is still a functional word for our vocabulary to hold onto.

Instead of searching for a way,

Simply experience being away.

Are you saying to gain a better understanding we should meditate? Does meditation replace education and rational debate to gain better understanding? If so, we should all quit totse for sitting silently and controlling our breathing.

Are you stating that 'X can be true and false at the same time' or that truth is simply never attainable and we should rid it from our vocabulary? On the latter, I would argue that even if you believe truth is an invalid concept, it is still a functional word for our vocabulary to hold onto.

'X cannot be true and false at the same time because 'X just is. 'X doesn't just exist in our 3rd dimensional reality but 'X exists in all dimensions of reality, "As above, So below. As below, So above. As within, So without." the 3rd dimensional 'X is an extension of the 2nd dimensional 'X and the 5th dimensional 'X and so on.

Are you saying to gain a better understanding we should meditate? Does meditation replace education and rational debate to gain better understanding? If so, we should all quit totse for sitting silently and controlling our breathing.

You should meditate to gain a better understanding of your education and rational debate, not drop one for the other but find a balance between the two.

What are you saying??

I'm saying what truth is, I'm saying that reality is illusion.

I AM and the lack of I AM cannot exist at the same time.

You have awareness confused with existence..

It is a matter of what you are aware of. You can be aware of 'I AM experiencing truth or illusion.' You know 'I AM' to be true, and if that is the only thing true, then reality is otherwise illusion.

Recognizing that 'I AM', is still an illusion to the truth it would represent.

Is this your opinion or are you stating it as a fact?

Im kind of confused.

Both.

But many different interpretations and ways of understanding it.

An infinity.

And as for the Flamie McFlamesters, relax will ya?



^ Hilarious, and right on the mark.

Good job baiting, Obbe. You're a professional.

'X cannot be true and false at the same time because 'X just is. 'X doesn't just exist in our 3rd dimensional reality but 'X exists in all dimensions of reality, "As above, So below. As below, So above. As within, So without." the 3rd dimensional 'X is an extension of the 2nd dimensional 'X and the 5th dimensional 'X and so on.

Okay, let me try to restate things for you.

1) I am being rained on (x)
2) I am not being rained on (not x)

This 1/2 combo cannot be so at the same time. To say 'x just is' is not suffice, as we are assuming x is the true statement. I am stating, that it is fact, that both of these statements cannot be simultaneously true.

I'm saying what truth is, I'm saying that reality is illusion.



You have awareness confused with existence..

It is a matter of what you are aware of. You can be aware of 'I AM experiencing truth or illusion.' You know 'I AM' to be true, and if that is the only thing true, then reality is otherwise illusion.

Recognizing that 'I AM', is still an illusion to the truth it would represent.

You've conflated my statement, I admit I shouldn't have used the word 'exist' though. I meant,
You cannot be aware and unaware of something at the same time. This is a truth. It is reality.

In relation to you being a total cunt.

Look, I know you feel very intellectual and philosophical, like perhaps you have stumbled upon some new abstract way of thinking, when you spew forth your nonsense like verbal diahrrea, but come on, enough is enough.

You make no sense. EVER. This makes you a cunt. Come on you have to realize this. It is pathetic. Kill yourself.

you are alot more pathetic because you need to distract others from your own pathetic self. You judge yourself harshly on being "pathetic" and thats why you judge others. So you will feel better about yourself. You should approve of yourself no matter what, be humble and never say your beliefs are better than anyone elses. Because everyones belief is equal. You ego want you to say i'm right and the other is wrong. that is wrong.

you are alot more pathetic because you need to distract others from your own pathetic self. You judge yourself harshly on being "pathetic" and thats why you judge others. So you will feel better about yourself. You should approve of yourself no matter what, be humble and never say your beliefs are better than anyone elses. Because everyones belief is equal. You ego want you to say i'm right and the other is wrong. that is wrong.

If everyones beliefs are equal, then why are you bashing him? If he believes Obbe to be a douche or whatever, then it is to be for him and it is an equal belief to Obbe is a great man. Plus, it is self defeating to state 'never say your beliefs are better than anyone else's' since this is a belief of yours and you are judging it to be better than an absolutist's.

You cannot be aware and unaware of something at the same time.

I'm not saying that you can.

I am saying that all you know to be true is 'I AM'.

If what we mean when we say 'I AM' is the only thing thats true, then all experience would become an illusion.

As an experience, awareness of 'I AM' is an illusion, even though 'I AM' is true.

Because if 'I AM' is all thats true, then true reality is 'awareness of nothing'.

I'm not saying that you can.

I am saying that all you know to be true is 'I AM'.

If what we mean when we say 'I AM' is the only thing thats true, then all experience would become an illusion.

As an experience, awareness of 'I AM' is an illusion, even though 'I AM' is true.

Because if 'I AM' is all thats true, then true reality is 'awareness of nothing'.


Very hard to fit all of that on a fortune cookie....



Instead of searching for a way,

Simply experience being away.


Ah....this one fits a lot better.

Okay, let me try to restate things for you.

1) I am being rained on (x)
2) I am not being rained on (not x)

This 1/2 combo cannot be so at the same time. To say 'x just is' is not suffice, as we are assuming x is the true statement. I am stating, that it is fact, that both of these statements cannot be simultaneously true.

But it can be simultaneously true. From our perspective of reality it may seem that it's either raining or it's not, but when you look at reality as a whole, every possible outcome of any given situation has happened somewhere in our multiverse. Our universe is one bubble in a dense slowly expanding pocket of dark matter. Outside of our visible universe the dark matter is not as dense and expands much faster. Inside of this vast ocean there are more pockets of dense dark matter ware parallel universes exist. Our universe is just one of many bubbles in a vast ocean of dark matter.

Anything that can happen has happened somewhere in the Multiverse.
From our view it may seem that the idea of parallel universes is preposterous, but think of it this way. The frog in the pond can only see his pond and the trees around it, his perspective of the universe is much smaller then that of the bird flying over the valley. The bird can see the small pond and the trees around it, but he can also see the mountains a bit further in the distance and can see the land beyond those mountains. With the birds perspective the beauty of the system can be experienced while the frog experiences only one part of the vast system not understanding what lies beyond.

Now here is ware it gets really crazy. The number of atoms in even the tiniest thing we see is huge and in a constant state of flux. Molecules are springing into their preferred shape at a rate of about four hundred million million per second and others are being destroyed at the same rate. This means nothing has a permanent identity, your cat is not the same cat you saw two minuets ago, microscopically her atoms were rearranged to such an extant that only the stability of her gross features enables us to caller her one cat. Two atoms of the same kind are indistinguishable from one another and at a deeper subatomic level the atoms are in a constant state of flux. ‘We think things in time persist because structures persist and we mistake the structures for substance. But looking for enduring structures is like looking for time. It slips through your fingers. One cannot step in the same river twice.’

The idea I’m trying to put forth is the possibility that the countless amount of probabilities (parallel universes) are the electrons of a much larger world. Atoms are mostly empty space with electrons popping in and out of existence around a small super dense point in the center. The building blocks of our reality are just bubbles of probabilities. Our reality is just a bubble of probabilities.

Our reality is just a bubble of probabilities.

;) Neat.

I believe that all possibilities are contained within the tenth (http://www.tenthdimension.com/medialinks.php)(or zero) dimension(also known as God).

Anybody interested by Hinduism?

Listen to Within You Without You (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Within_You_Without_You#Lyrical_interpretation) by the Beatles sometime.

Just try to keep in mind its all lies, like any religion.

But it can be simultaneously true. From our perspective of reality it may seem that it's either raining or it's not, but when you look at reality as a whole, every possible outcome of any given situation has happened somewhere in our multiverse. Our universe is one bubble in a dense slowly expanding pocket of dark matter. Outside of our visible universe the dark matter is not as dense and expands much faster. Inside of this vast ocean there are more pockets of dense dark matter ware parallel universes exist. Our universe is just one of many bubbles in a vast ocean of dark matter.

Anything that can happen has happened somewhere in the Multiverse.
From our view it may seem that the idea of parallel universes is preposterous, but think of it this way. The frog in the pond can only see his pond and the trees around it, his perspective of the universe is much smaller then that of the bird flying over the valley. The bird can see the small pond and the trees around it, but he can also see the mountains a bit further in the distance and can see the land beyond those mountains. With the birds perspective the beauty of the system can be experienced while the frog experiences only one part of the vast system not understanding what lies beyond.

Now here is ware it gets really crazy. The number of atoms in even the tiniest thing we see is huge and in a constant state of flux. Molecules are springing into their preferred shape at a rate of about four hundred million million per second and others are being destroyed at the same rate. This means nothing has a permanent identity, your cat is not the same cat you saw two minuets ago, microscopically her atoms were rearranged to such an extant that only the stability of her gross features enables us to caller her one cat. Two atoms of the same kind are indistinguishable from one another and at a deeper subatomic level the atoms are in a constant state of flux. ‘We think things in time persist because structures persist and we mistake the structures for substance. But looking for enduring structures is like looking for time. It slips through your fingers. One cannot step in the same river twice.’

The idea I’m trying to put forth is the possibility that the countless amount of probabilities (parallel universes) are the electrons of a much larger world. Atoms are mostly empty space with electrons popping in and out of existence around a small super dense point in the center. The building blocks of our reality are just bubbles of probabilities. Our reality is just a bubble of probabilities.


Okay, now you accept that something can be true, that is atleast a start. But two contradicting statements as both being true at the same time, I can't understand. Oh wait, your whole premise for this is TEH MULTIVERSE. Please, start arguing within the context of what is atleast scientific, not some math model and pseudoscience which has no consensus.

Even if you want to work with the theoretical multiverse, when I utter statement 'x', I am speaking from one universe, and 'x' is true or not in that universe, if 'x' is something different in a different universe, well that's fine, it's not me uttering 'x'.

I'm not saying that you can.

I am saying that all you know to be true is 'I AM'.

If what we mean when we say 'I AM' is the only thing thats true, then all experience would become an illusion.

As an experience, awareness of 'I AM' is an illusion, even though 'I AM' is true.

Because if 'I AM' is all thats true, then true reality is 'awareness of nothing'.

Exactly, and I've already enumerated a few statements which are true, ergo 'I AM' is not all that's true.

Exactly, and I've already enumerated a few statements which are true, ergo 'I AM' is not all that's true.

What else can you know to be true?

Can you prove you know whatever it is to be true?

Your 'I am' is a variation on the 'cogito ergo sum', correct?

Your 'I am' is a variation on the 'cogito ergo sum', correct?

I dunno. I just googled that, and it seems so.

You're interesting, FH. What are your thoughts on this?

I don't believe we can know absolute truth in the 3rd dimension, or in any other dimension. The divine mind is the only entity to know absolute truth. We can tune in to different frequencies of the truth, different faces of god, but to know absolute truth one must be god him self.

I don't believe we can know absolute truth in the 3rd dimension, or in any other dimension. The divine mind is the only entity to know absolute truth. We can tune in to different frequencies of the truth, different faces of god, but to know absolute truth one must be god him self.

Being such a skeptic of truth, I don't understand how god could not also be equally skeptical. Especially considering god must wonder if there was something that created it, which must be more knowledge than itself, therefore knowing absolute truth on the matter, ad nauseum.

What else can you know to be true?

Can you prove you know whatever it is to be true?

I cannot experience and not experience x object at the same time.
A pony is not an alligator.
A bachelor is an unmarried man.
The last character of this sentence is a period.

Would you state all of these are false? If a teacher asked you to list these as true or false, would you be willing to really own up that all of these are false? If so, what would be your syllogistic argument for each of them? I don't want 'this is not truth, I AM is only truth' poeticism, but an actual arguments to how each of these are false, using definitions.

I cannot experience and not experience x object at the same time.
A pony is not an alligator.
A bachelor is an unmarried man.
The last character of this sentence is a period.


From our perspective of reality these are true.

Hey, look at me!

I just took something incredibly simple, something every single person with a working brain already knows, and wrote it in cryptic language to make myself look extremely intelligent.

I dunno. I just googled that, and it seems so.

You're interesting, FH. What are your thoughts on this?

Read Descartes. In his meditations he outlined the key ideas of Solipsism; as in, what you keep repeating as the truth, even though off the top of my head inherent 'assumptions' arise; such as that reality is an illusion, which is unproven logically and merely conjecture based on the certainty that 'I am' is all that can be known to exist according to a Solipsist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism

From our perspective of reality these are true.

How can you say that? All those things are by definition true.

Any arguing on the matter is semantic bullshit.

I cannot experience and not experience x object at the same time.

This truly depends on what you mean by time.

Remember, at the tenth dimension where all possibilities are real, time doesn't exist. Everything is happening, or not happening, at the same 'time'.

A pony is not an alligator.

A bachelor is an unmarried man.

The last character of this sentence is a period.

As long as you recognize they are all reality, right?

You can 'prove' things...but only within an illusion. Do you not already make assumptions about certain being 'true' with all of these? Assumptions which you can never know?

What can you know?

Would you state all of these are false?

Would you state them all true?

Would you state that experience is truth?

Then you'll still find the same conclusion.

If a teacher asked you to list these as true or false, would you be willing to really own up that all of these are false?

Depends. I probably would not care.

...actual arguments to how each of these are false, using definitions.

Ugh, you freaking monster.

They are all true...within their illusions. They are no more different then a large scientific proof for gravity, or magnetism.

You are still experiencing a pony, and believing that experience to be real.

Still experience the period, and believe it to be real.

But do you know that? No. You only know 'I AM' experiencing illusion or truth.

something incredibly simple, something every single person with a working brain already knows

Yet so many deny it.

so if you found truth, you wouldn't actually find it(in the definitive meaning of the word find), cause you would never know...cause knowing anything is an illusion?yet, you would experience it? but to you, you would have experienced nothing....

and that is truth

so what your saying is we'll never know we found truth(a way), only experience it(away)


nice theory if the only truth is "I AM"

I don't believe that though.

so what your saying is we'll never know we found truth(a way), only experience it(away)

I am saying anything you perceive which is thought to be truth is only illusion.

I am saying true reality is the state described by 'I AM', 'awareness of nothing', 'being', 'God', etc...

And I'm saying a lot about what that state is itself. Its the alpha and the omega. All possibilities are contained within it.

Anything and everything you perceive as separate within this illusion is another possibility formed by, or originating from the state; you are perceiving another possible perception of the presence; separation is an illusion...you are the presence...all is one.

nice theory if the only truth is "I AM"

I don't believe that though.

Then tell me what else can be known to be true.

How can you say that? All those things are by definition true.

I understand what he's saying.

Imagine the crazy man thinks he's playing a game of cards with some of his 'pals'. They all follow the rules, all the players stay separate entities, etc. Even if its all very logical and seems true to him...

...we would not see these people. We would consider his experience of them to be an illusion.

---------------

How do you know your perception of these things, their existance and separation, is not an illusion?

...

So do you know they're true?

...

But what do you know to be true?

This truly depends on what you mean by time.

Remember, at the tenth dimension where all possibilities are real, time doesn't exist. Everything is happening, or not happening, at the same 'time'.


1) "I am experiencing and not experiencing" is analagous. It is true that this is not possible.
2) What are you talking about? Is this tenth dimension thing based on anything beside superstition? Can you direct me to some non-nutjob source for information? Otherwise, you're just arguing out your ass like these people arguing on basis of a multiverse, lmao.



You can 'prove' things...but only within an illusion. Do you not already make assumptions about certain being 'true' with all of these? Assumptions which you can never know?

What can you know?


I am making no assumptions, other than commonsense that I understand each definition. I understand 'pony', 'is not' and 'alligator' and understand, that indeed, it makes a true statement.

I've already stated a few things I know.



Would you state them all true?

Would you state that experience is truth?

Then you'll still find the same conclusion.


I ALREADY stated them as all true. You, have not proven any statements as false. Experience is non-sequitur, this is rational though based on definitions to conclude with true statements. Nonetheless, yes I've already stated experience, in some way, is reality. It's not always an exterior reality, a base reality, but it is always some form of it.



Ugh, you freaking monster.

They are all true...within their illusions. They are no more different then a large scientific proof for gravity, or magnetism.

You are still experiencing a pony, and believing that experience to be real.

Still experience the period, and believe it to be real.

But do you know that? No. You only know 'I AM' experiencing illusion or truth.

[/QUOTE]

I have already debunked your truth/reality as illusion and stated it many times. You are conflating the definitions of both, when they are contradictory words. Illusions are simply a part of reality, but are mistaken of the exterior world. We say someone tripping on shrooms seeing a 3-headed horseman is seeing an illusion, b/c he is experiencing an inner, non-baser, reality. He is experiencing an image which does not extend out into space, is not an actual part of the material world, only in his head. Things which are agreeable to have have extension and form out into space are to be reality. If you disagree, then you are missing the point of the word 'reality'. If you say all of us are mistaken, then you are basing the mistakenness on nothing other than pure skepticism, yet it has an undeniable amount of functionality. In short, there are things called dictionaries, they are your friend. Please use one.

I am saying anything you perceive which is thought to be truth is only illusion.

"I am saying true reality is the state described by 'I AM', 'awareness of nothing', 'being', 'God', etc..."

"And I'm saying a lot about what that state is itself. Its the alpha and the omega. All possibilities are contained within it."

Anything and everything you perceive as separate within this illusion is another possibility formed by, or originating from the state; you are perceiving another possible perception of the presence; separation is an illusion...you are the presence...all is one.



Then tell me what else can be known to be true.

well, I know thats definitly not it, cause that isn't known to be true. how do you know your perception of the 10 dimentional explanation isn't percieved as something else in other dimensions. Perhaps a 100 dimensional universe? In essence, your own belief de bunks itself, because you can question it's own basis.

which I guess is good in a way, if you just want to avoid finding something solid and just keep searching and creating theories, I remember reading it in a Discovery magazine, an article in which the author said, if any beleif system...as looney as it may sound, avoids starting wars or fighting, then it's a good one. haha, I don't agree with that(not that i agree with war) but maybe thats why so many have turned to that, cause thats what alot of organized religion has proven to do throughout history. He was commenting on a cult that beleived the universe was like a computer, based on numbers and all these things, but he said, good for them, if they aren't causing wars and violence between themselves and others.

1) "I am experiencing and not experiencing" is analagous. It is true that this is not possible.

I could disagree. For the same kind of reasons why I would say something like 'Everything I say is a lie'. Is it true that thats not possible?

True within the illusion. In reality, it represents truth. Even the experience of speaking is an illusion.

I believe I said that experience is illusion, not "I am experiencing and not experiencing". But I could still disagree and say that it is possible.

You would agree that you are not aware of everything in reality, correct? Or at least that we only perceive a small percentage of the universe, no?

So that is what you, as a particular 'point' of perception, are aware of. A particular 'point' in reality.

But the rest of 'reality', or 'illusion', or maya is...you, as I have said before. You are the presence which is a part of everything, you are the base of existence.

As such, 'you', depending on the 'point' of perception, are experiencing a particular point of the maya...but also, from another point of perception, are not experiencing the previous perception.

2) What are you talking about?

The 'tenth dimension' doesn't have to have anything to do with ten. I mean the same thing by saying God, or 'the state'.

What I am talking about is complete reality.

All.

'The tenth dimension' is a result of one method of organizing reality, which I particularly enjoy...but is in no way 'more correct' then any other method. I just tend to use that term when relating to all possibilities.

Just think of it as if I said 'God'.

I am making no assumptions, other than commonsense that I understand each definition.

You are assuming that they are real for one. The sentence is 'true' within the construct, but the construct itself cannot be known to be true.

I understand 'pony', 'is not' and 'alligator' and understand, that indeed, it makes a true statement.

How do you understand those things? Experience.

You cannot know pony's or alligators to be real, you can only connect meaning to 'is not' if you have something which to negate, but it would be an illusion, and you also cannot then know 'pony' and 'alligator' to be separate.

They are only true statements within corresponding maya. 'All elephants are pink' is true within an illusion of pink elephants.

What you experience as true reality is not. True reality would be awareness of nothing, simply 'being'.

I've already stated a few things I know.

No, only things you believe to be known.

You only know one thing.

I ALREADY stated them as all true.

I ALREADY stated everything is illusion.

You, have not proven any statements as false.

Because thats impossible. Proof either way is impossible.

But, going by what you know, they are illusions.

I have already debunked your truth/reality as illusion and stated it many times.

You haven't, because doing so would be impossible.

You're truth's are not based on anything known to be true, they are based on maya.

Illusions are simply a part of reality, but are mistaken of the exterior world.

View all things as truth and you will reach the same conclusion as I, when viewing reality at the 'tenth dimension'.

Things which are agreeable to have have extension and form out into space are to be reality.

Who are you agreeing with?

...functionality...

Why would it not?

In essence...

Exactly. My beliefs are only beliefs, everything I say is a lie, blah blah blah...

Exactly. Look at the above response to see what I have to say about the 'tenth dimension'.

well, you never explain any of your 'beleifs' throughly, just more variations and word play every time. which again brings me to what i said earlier bout the convenience of having a 'beleif' that just rolls over on itself, you'll never have to fight about it, cause no one knows, not even you, thats your escape, to maybe find peace within yourself and trick yourself into thinking your wondering about tenth dimensions and other worlds is expanding your mind, the more you dwell and endevour into this 'truth' to be found, or some kind of enlightenment (I'm sure you could make another twsty turny explanation for that one) the further you stray from actually finding something meaningful.

I beleive something meaningful is something we feel, as humans that is one of our key elements and characteristics, we have emotions, are you going to say our emotions are illusions now too? or you could say, our perception of emotions, because if they are, then we are robbed of us being human, like it or not, there are many things that are 'real', weather you would like to face it or not.

well, you never explain any of your 'beleifs' throughly, just more variations and word play every time.

You want me to write a 'bible'?

Ha.

cause no one knows, not even you

What does anybody know?

That one thing is my point.

to maybe find peace within yourself

Whats wrong with that?

and trick yourself into thinking your wondering about tenth dimensions and other worlds is expanding your mind

You could consider anything to be 'mind-expanding'.

What 'expands' your mind?

the more you dwell and endevour into this 'truth' to be found, or some kind of enlightenment (I'm sure you could make another twsty turny explanation for that one) the further you stray from actually finding something meaningful.

I disagree. Its impossible to 'stray'...you are that truth! I don't have to 'find' it, it was always there!

I only 'stray' by my continued interaction...which is my choice, because who's to say that even if everything is an illusion, that it is meaningless? If I thought that, would I be here?

You are that which experiences. It seems obvious that experiences were meant to be experienced.

are you going to say our emotions are illusions now too?

I have many times, in other threads.

there are many things that are 'real', weather you would like to face it or not.

Oh...there...there are?

Reaaallllly?

Can...can you show me?

Oh...there...there are?

Reaaallllly?

Can...can you show me?

uh...no

it's....it's

within yourself

reeeeeeeally

Wow.... I'm now actually convinced Obbe is a troll.

uh...no

it's....it's

within yourself

reeeeeeeally


Hahahahah!! Nice one, fair play.

Wow.... I'm now actually convinced Obbe is a troll.


Welcome to the club :)

it's within yourself

Exactly.

Exactly. My beliefs are only beliefs, everything I say is a lie, blah blah blah...


exactly, wow you sumarized yourself really well there. especially the "blah blah blah"

exactly, wow you sumarized yourself really well there. especially the "blah blah blah"

Thanks!

You sure show a lot of creativity in such a lame, sarcastic flame.

Really wanna show me you're right? Then do that. Show me you're right.

first of all, I wasn't being sarcastic.

What does anybody know?

That one thing is my point.

secondly, you say your whole point was/is to show no one knows anything? or that you know that the turth is within yourself? or that you don't even know that? or that you can't know anything really, for sure?

and no, I don't really want to show you I'm right, cause I didn't post to impose my beleifs on you. if I wanted to do that, I would have started a thread. I simply commented that I don't believe your explanations of 'truth' because they contradict themselves and cannot prove anything, and your beleifs, or at least the ones you have tried to explain, reflect on you and I've seen others take a stance on finding truth, resorting to a mystical form of twisting and turning of theories, to find no concrete answers. That way, you don't have to really face the human condition or do much about it, cause its within you but really, there are alot of 'real' things to deal with.

thats all I was saying, really.


for real.

you say your whole point was/is to show no one knows anything?

No.

That only one thing is known to be true.

As such, all else is illusion to that truth.

or that you know that the turth is within yourself?

The truth is within you, it is 'being'.

or that you can't know anything really, for sure?

You cannot, except that 'I AM'.

That way, you don't have to really face the human condition or do much about it, cause its within you but really, there are alot of 'real' things to deal with.

Like what, for instance?

Ya' sillybilly.

thats all I was saying, really.

So I see you don't understand.

Like what, for instance?

Ya' sillybilly.


So I see you don't understand

who gave you the ability to think? what do you define as 'thought', if your looking for deeper knowledge of yourself for introspection or 'truth', you should ask yourself that, thats a start, you don't even know the origin of the very ability that allows you to dwell on these tenth dimension theories. and yet you are talking of illusions and whats real or not, when you don't even have a grip of the real questiosn of 'why'? or 'how?'I was just making a comment, self examination is good, but some people get so lost in it, either cause they are afraid of what they have to face if they don't emerge themselves in that, you my friend, have gotten lost in yourself, take a look around...wait, you don't want to cause your scared? or it's all an illusion?we both have different perspectives on life, no doubt, but make an effort to peak out of that hole you have dug for yourself and look at the rest of the world, perhaps try and have a discussion which brings up some meaningful things, not that things you say aren't meaningful, but they sure lose that quality without some sort of clear explanation of what your saying, if all your going to repeat is I AM and 'you are the truth' and continue to contradict and answer every question with another question.

who gave you the ability to think?what do you define as 'thought' ... ?

The 'ability' to think is a result of experience. In the true state, thought does not exist, as there is nothing to think of. If thought enters, you are no longer 'aware of nothing'.

'Thought', like 'emotion', is an illusion to the true state of reality.

...allows you to dwell on these tenth dimension theories.

It is for reasons like this I believe you don't understand me. These theories have barely anything to do with 'the tenth dimension' concept of organizing reality.

you my friend, have gotten lost in yourself, take a look around...wait, you don't want to cause your scared? or it's all an illusion?

If I didn't want to for any reason, then I wouldn't be experiencing this conversation.

I am not implying any 'worthlessness' to your perception simply because it is an illusion...but it is true you only know one thing, and therefore your perception is an illusion to that truth.

If I considered it worthless, I would not be a part of it.

we both have different perspectives on life

You seem to have a misunderstanding of what my beliefs are, so I'm not sure if thats true.

but make an effort to peak out of that hole you have dug for yourself and look at the rest of the world

What hole? You play me out as depressed and lost.

perhaps try and have a discussion which brings up some meaningful things, not that things you say aren't meaningful

I thought thats what I was doing, gee...

I guess 'meaningful' is a perspective. Who woulda guessed?

if all your going to repeat is I AM and 'you are the truth' and continue to contradict and answer every question with another question.

I've used more detail before. ;)

BTW, paragraphs sure make reading easier.

*proposes an analysis of neuro-chemistry in the light of those whom seek a spiritual path in life.*

'Religion' is a rather redundant way of explaining this - it's easier to see it as spiritual truth, rather than the term 'religion' which can lead to confusion and ultimately hostility.

Although of course one can appreciate the honesty of hostility - even if the participants are unaware of the un-acknowledged equality of such an attitude.

You wouldn't be hostile to one you viewed as your lesser, after all - And you usually would not show open hostility to one you viewed (subconciously) as your greater.

When people talk about brutal honesty, a profound meaning would be similar to this.

But this is all asides from the main point, isn't it?


Spiritual truth can be approached from the same angle as any other investigative method or search - except that what you find is personally relevant, as if you were tracing family history or if you were trying to find a lost partner, or for an extreme example; helping others.

Once you have stared death in the face and realised that death applies to everyone, the strongest and the weakest, you begin to realise that trying to become 'the best' is ultimately inconsequential, and as such you find yourself 'lost'.

From there, the search for spiritual truth begins.

There are those whom decide that the search is futile - that there is no truth other than that which can be readily perceived, and one could view this as reasonable, if not defying the very point of your existence.

As for those whom carry on the search for truth, they may find it comes in as many different ways as there are types of cheese - sometimes the smallest thing can provide relevations that would shock the individual into silence.

The next time you see something that you find awe-inspiring, or even just beautiful; ask yourself why you think that it is so.

The next time you see something that you find awe-inspiring, or even just beautiful; ask yourself why you think that it is so.

well put, good point.

Very thought-provoking post there TH.

The 'ability' to think is a result of experience. In the true state, thought does not exist, as there is nothing to think of. If thought enters, you are no longer 'aware of nothing'.

'Thought', like 'emotion', is an illusion to the true state of reality.



mhm, so your belief or opinion of what 'true reality' is; is having nothing to think of, somewhere thoughts don't exist.
haha, sorry but that is actually kind of funny. If you want to reach that state I suggest you just cut off oxygen to your brain for a while so you end up like a vegetable.

However, no matter the method, they do not find truth. There is only one truth, and even recognition of it would be a contradiction to its truth.
Didn't you and Rust already go over this?

I see you assert lots of things as truth. I see you claiming you know this truth, even though no one finds this truth and even if they did it'd just be a contradiction - making it even more impossible to find, seeing as then it'd be false. Except somehow you are the Special Magic Man who can do the impossible and know the unknowable, apparently.

Impressive. If only you could convince the rest of us. :p Though I appreciate that you're trying to communicate your revelations, whether or not they're true/right/correct.

I see you assert lots of things as truth. I see you claiming you know this truth

There is only one thing which is true, and one thing which is known. What is known is recognition of what is true.

that is actually kind of funny.

'n whys that?

There is only one thing which is true, and one thing which is known. What is known is recognition of what is true.
What is the sound of what is recognized making a chicken enchilada? Thus spake the Great Goozaluk.