I know in the old testement it says not to worship idols.

In the new testement we learn that the only way to heaven is not through god but through Jesus. Prayers are said in Jesus's name.

Is this not, according to the old testement, idol worship?

Idols are non-living objects such as statues.

Where in the NT does it say you get to heaven "not through god but through Jesus"?

Prayers in Jesus' name are okay because supposedly Jesus is God, but separate from God, yet part of a trinity, also one with God. Christianity's clear as mud.

More love from the Bible: Moses slaughters 3000 Jews for dancing naked around a harmless golden calf. (Exodus 32:25-29) That's worse than Muhammad.

More love from the Bible: Moses slaughters 3000 Jews for dancing naked around a harmless golden calf. (Exodus 32:25-29) That's worse than Muhammad.

Dude. Consider this, an awesome power follows you with pillars of fire, places incredible plagues upon your enemies, this awesome power has fed you in the desert where there is no food or drink.

Ok, now we've estabalished this huge vast power, is hugely and vastly powerful, do you now start doing things to piss it off?

No.

Your one stupid mutha-fucker to fuck around with a dude like that unless he's a VERY good friend.

Idols are non-living objects such as statues.

Where in the NT does it say you get to heaven "not through god but through Jesus"?

Prayers in Jesus' name are okay because supposedly Jesus is God, but separate from God, yet part of a trinity, also one with God. Christianity's clear as mud.

Non-living, like a cross?

Non-living, like a cross?
the cross is just a reminder that Jesus died for your sins, or whatever. People that go around kissing it and such are a little kooky, but other than that, its really just a symbol. Like the Muslim crescent, the Jewish star of David, the pentagram, etc...

the cross is just a reminder that Jesus died for your sins, or whatever. People that go around kissing it and such are a little kooky, but other than that, its really just a symbol. Like the Muslim crescent, the Jewish star of David, the pentagram, etc...

3 you shall have no other gods before me.

4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Non-living, like a cross?
All material symbols are not defined as idols. Idols are objects which are 'worshiped'. I'm not aware of an Christians worshiping crosses as if the crosses themselves were gods. Its the worship of statues and such that the Bible is clearly getting at in the next verses you missed:

You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Christians that bow in front of statues are clearly breaking the rules according to Leviticus when it comes to graven images, but this is different than worshiping the idols themselves and much different than keeping symbols such as the cross.

3 you shall have no other gods before me.
Jesus is not supposed to be a separate God but part of the 'Godhead'.

You should worship your self, because you are the temple of God.

Jesus is not supposed to be a separate God but part of the 'Godhead'.

I understand the concept of my trinity.

I guess what I am trying to say is that all of christianity is the work of the devil herself, and that Jesus is seen as a sort of god or demigod, and that people worship Jesus without truly realizing that they are WORSHIPPING another god. Also, Christians worship on the Lord's day and not the Sabbath. The Sabbath represents the covenant with god himself.

They SEEM to be fucking up the very foundations laid out in the old testement. I contend that Christianity is a trick of the devil; She has pulled of the greatest deception the world has ever known.

I believe this godhead you speak of is just bullshit language disguising the way Jesus IS worshiped. Jesus is worshipped by Christians whether they realize it or not.

You should worship your self, because you are the temple of God.

Abstract bullshit.

Abstract bullshit.

Not at all. The presence which you know exists within you is God.

Not at all. The presence which you know exists within you is God.

My mind and thoughts are a product of evolution. They are highly evolved and allow me to, unlike MANY animals, imagine. Imagination is what has given humans their edge in this world.

This imagination gives us an edge by allowing us to answer problems before they happen. I know we take this shit for granite, but this is one of the essential reasons we as a species have dominated the other species.

This imagination is also what gives us Religion and your ideas. The only way to rein in this imagination is with truth. The ONLY outlet for TRUTH we have is science. I know you think your shit is truth Obbe but you have ZERO proof and no empircal evidence at all. Your ideas are imagination what I practice is science , better known as truth.

My mind and thoughts are a product of evolution. They are highly evolved and allow me to, unlike MANY animals, imagine.

lol, and you think you know this?

The ONLY outlet for TRUTH we have is science.

Not at all, because all of which science demonstrates could be part of an illusion.

Compared to all that you know, 'I AM', it is all an illusion.

science , better known as truth.

Prove it.

Yes. There is more proof for evolution that there is for your fortune cookism. Sorry there just is.

I have explained to you that I have NOTHING to prove and you have everthing to prove. Let me explain: If your whole argument hinges on the concept that everything we all know is an illusion, then I still have more proof than you.

I have the illusion itself. That is more proof than you. You then must prove to me that this "illusion" you speak of is in fact an illusion. The burden of proof falls on you.

Yes. There is more proof for evolution that there is for your fortune cookism. Sorry there just is.

DEMONSTRATE it.

You cannot.

I have the illusion itself. That is more proof than you. You then must prove to me that this "illusion" you speak of is in fact an illusion. The burden of proof falls on you.

How is it an illusion?

As I have said, if illusions are are distortions from what you know to be true, and all you know to be true is 'I AM', then all experiences become illusions.

All you know to be true, is 'I AM'. If 'I AM' is all that is true, then recognition that 'I AM' is also part of the illusion.

'Being' is reality.

That is such fucking bullshit.

That proves nothing and it certainly does not prove my computer is an illusion.

I have a shared illusion with you in the form of the internet, computers, language, totse, electricity and this very post. We both share this illusion.

Bottom line your argument is such basic and simple shit. I get what your saying now. I do. Finally. I see why you disguise it by being vague. It is such a funny and flimsy argument for the existence of everything. It is very unoriginal and pathetic.

I have a shared illusion with you...

lol, 'we', huh?

Any way to prove that I exist? I am part of your illusion. I am an experience, one which cannot be validated or proven true in any way.

Bottom line your argument is such basic and simple shit.

It is truth.

lol, 'we', huh?

Any way to prove that I exist? I am part of your illusion. I am an experience, one which cannot be validated or proven true in any way.

It is truth.

YOU are part of my illusion. So you DO NOT exist except in my mind?

YOU are part of my illusion. So you DO NOT exist except in my mind?

As far as YOU know.

Vice Versa for me.

All I know is 'I AM'. Everything, including you, are illusions to that truth.

As far as YOU know.

Vice Versa for me.

All I know is 'I AM'. Everything, including you, are illusions to that truth.

I see what your saying and understand it completely.

That is the stupidest fucking thing I have ever heard. That is such a simple bitch way to look at it.

Very cute idea :)

I see what your saying and understand it completely.

That is the stupidest fucking thing I have ever heard. That is such a simple bitch way to look at it.

I'm not sure if thats a compliment or an insult, but I don't exactly care either. I'm glad you understand.

Reality, in the truest sense, is 'being'.

Obbe, you are a fucking asshole! You really enjoy hijacking to talk about you're fucking illusions and being called on it, don't you? I really hope a mod puts a fucking stop to this.

Obbe, you are a fucking asshole! You really enjoy hijacking to talk about you're fucking illusions and being called on it, don't you? I really hope a mod puts a fucking stop to this.

A single response was my honest intention. I really thought BP would just ignore me by now.

Broke Prophet:

In the beginning of this thread, you said christianity was the work of the Devil herself. Do you believe the Devil to be a living deity, or an archetype of sorts? Or is it just "the Devil" in the technical Biblical sense?

Do you believe in intelligences living in other dimensions that could influence us for good or ill? Do they have names? Set, Hades, Pan, Azazel, Lillith, Lucifer, Baal, Marduk, Ishtar - All are equated with the "devil" in some way, yet each (according to the bible and history) are seperate entities. Some are gods of evil, some are subversive spirits, and others are Pagan gods that were abandoned for YHWH.

My understanding is that there is NO "true God/Goddess". Even in the bible, Jehovah states "thou shallt worship no other gods before me. That very statement acknowledges the existence of other deities, and implores Israel (meaning "struggle with God") to abandon them. This is the beginning of the Covenant.

Covenant? Is that like a pact? I think it is. Like, an agreement with a discarnate storm jinn of the Sinai to enslave the descendents of Moses in exchange for wealth, power, and political gain. This is a pact with something worse than the Devil - the Demiurge. The Demiurge believes it created the world, and is very spiritually unevolved. It's evil, but not consciously aware of it - say, like a jealous/narcissistic person. It has very high intelligence, but a very short temper as well. Vey powerful spirit, but not omnipotent.

I believe Jehovah's people are weak now because they lost the Ark of the Covenant. Jehovah literally dwelled within it in the holy of Holies.

So... just go catch another genie. And this time, get it to tell you its name. If it doesn't, leave it alone or you'll be its slave too. Remember, a jinn/genie can be good or evil, and almost all have short tempers. They're made of the subtle element fire, and can grant your wishes.

p.s.

I think Broke Prophet is an atheist, but wants to prove through intellectual argument that Christianity is the Devil's work. Tell me if I'm wrong.

What about toast and stains on a highway underpass?

I think Broke Prophet is an atheist, but wants to prove through intellectual argument that Christianity is the Devil's work. Tell me if I'm wrong.

The only thing that truly matters is my argument and the points I raise.

The devil is the angel lucifer cast down from heaven by god. She is the trickiest creature in our known universe. The devil can tell THE BEST lies.

The best lie the devil has told is that Jesus/Muhammad is the Christ.

This simple lie right here has caused enough bloodshed to fill an ocean. Christianity and Islam (both offshoots of Judaism) have caused more harm in and to this world than good. How can either be holy or true.

If you believe the biggest way the devil can get you is to make you wanna jerk off or use naughty language you are a fool. The devil makes me drink, fuck, lie, cheat, steal or murder. Bullshit. These are SIMPLE things.

The great lie of the devil and what has caused more suffering in the world is Christianity. Christianity has done far more harm for far longer than the other works of the devil such as Fornicators, Homosexuals, Walt Disney, Murderers, Lawyers, Rofflle, and even Bush.

I don't want to refute the argument, I was just curious to see what you believed.

Back to the topic..:p

According to Christians, Jesus and god are one. So to them, I guess it could either be considered just prayer, or intercession.

Obbe is just a poorer rip-off of Rizzo in a Box. My $.02

lol, 'we', huh?

Any way to prove that I exist? I am part of your illusion. I am an experience, one which cannot be validated or proven true in any way.



It is truth.

It is speculation, not truth. You're treading a very old, tired philosophy, but I'll admit Solipsism is an interesting theory.

Georgias said it, Plato said it, Descartes said it, even to some degree Immanuel Kant said it.

And saying 'my own existance' = 'I am god' is a looooong stretch of the imagination. That's where you go from being a Solipsist to deluded.

Back on task; I doubt it's feasible to suggest that Christianity is the Devil's work, but I certainly think pointing out the innate hypocrisy in criticising symbol-based religions when in truth Christianity worships a symbol too.

And saying 'my own existance' = 'I am god' is a looooong stretch of the imagination. That's where you go from being a Solipsist to deluded.

I disagree, I believe that stretch is the result of a misinterpretation of the meaning of God.

God?

Here are some descriptions that point to God as the ultimate reality and the source of the universe:

The beginning and the end.
The Suprerme Being (being as in "to be")
Trimurti - Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva (Creator, Preserver, Destroyer)
The truth, the way, and the life.
The Tao (way)
In the beginning there was the Word (logos), and the Word was with God. And the Word was God.
Parama-Shiva

Then, there are the interpretations that God is anthropomorphic, or like humans:

The Father/Mother
God the Most High (Re, the sun god, worshipped at high noon)
The Redeemer

There are different types of God. One would be the universe and the epitome of consciousness and intelligence, and the other that gets pissed off and uses superpowers to whip humans into shape. I believe in emanationism - that everything comes from the same Source. The God of Moses is a being on a higher plane, but obviously not enlightened, for it claims to be jealous and vengeful.

everything comes from the same Source.

True dat.

I see idol worship as something that grows you apart from the truth. It's essentially you fooling yourself into believing and putting something on a pedestal. It can be anything: money, nationalism, statues, ego, parents, prophets, your job, a black stone in the middle of a desert. Makes me thing about a quote from Tao De Ching Hexadecimal posted: "A tao that can be named is not an eternal tao."

In essence, you give power to things that have none.

22:73 "O Mankind! Here is an example for you to listen and ponder! Behold, those beings you invoke instead of Allah, cannot create as much as a fly, even if they were to join all their forces to do so. And if a fly robs them of anything, they cannot get it back from it. Weak indeed is the seeker and weak indeed the sought.”

I see idol worship as something that grows you apart from the truth.

Interesting, I like it.

In essence, you give power to things that have none.

Nice!

I think most Christians see Jesus as the ideal human, not an ideal. It's a lot similar to Buddhism where the Buddha is not a god to be worshiped, but an example of how to live your life. Key example: WWJD? LMAO.

I think the condemning of idol worship quite possibly has more to do with combating materialism. We are talking about an ascetic religion here, in which followers are told to overcome their earthly desires for an eternal place in heaven. I, personally, do not like such ideas. I'm not fond of rampant materialism either. The more I learn about the world and life, the more I realize that moderation really is key. The middle path, if you will.

As for solipsism, it's a harmful extreme. It is quite possible to create worlds within your head. Reality can be a very vague blurry thing, but it is extreme, short-sighted, and a cop out to claim that all of existence is inside your head. I just thought of a decent question to pose here. If this is all in your head.. where is your actual physical body? Also, are you saying that this is whole universe is in the head of one man.. or that we all have our own universes. Also how would you explain the existence of people which you have no knowledge of, but do in fact exist?

Solipsism is basically just radical individualism combined with fatalism and delusion. Saying everything is just a big dream makes life a lot less stressful I bet, but it doesn't get you anywhere. When you write off the world, you write off yourself.

If this is all in your head.. where is your actual physical body?

How do you 'know' you need a physical body?

I fail to see how solipsism is harmful, or a cop-out. Feel free to explain in detail why you feel so, if you wish to.

Also, are you saying that this is whole universe is in the head of one man.. or that we all have our own universes

I am saying all is one.

Also how would you explain the existence of people which you have no knowledge of, but do in fact exist?

How do you know they do, in fact, exist?

Saying everything is just a big dream makes life a lot less stressful I bet, but it doesn't get you anywhere.

Like anything, that would depend on what you do with that knowledge.

How do you 'know' you need a physical body?

If you feel certain that you don't, why not try experimenting with a little self-decapitation? You won't get far, for after losing those first few pints of blood, you'll notice that all these thoughts you postulate tend to get a bit fuzzy around the edges when the rest of your body isn't operating at full potential. But Obbe won't try that. As much as Obbe likes to think of himself as non-dependent on his physical self, something tells me he's a little more attached to the "here and now" than he likes to let on.

I fail to see how solipsism is harmful, or a cop-out. Feel free to explain in detail why you feel so, if you wish to.

He kind of already did.

Like anything, that would depend on what you do with that knowledge.

What, pray tell, does Obbe do with that knowledge? Because other than the Denial of Everything train you love to ride around on, I fail to see how it could benefit anything at all other than making a ton of circular, pointless assertions about how nothing really matters.

I tend to agree with zik, for all the reasons he stated and then some. It's a cop-out.

I think the condemning of idol worship quite possibly has more to do with combating materialism. We are talking about an ascetic religion here, in which followers are told to overcome their earthly desires for an eternal place in heaven. I, personally, do not like such ideas. I'm not fond of rampant materialism either. The more I learn about the world and life, the more I realize that moderation really is key. The middle path, if you will.

I think condeming idol worship is really just competition elimination. Pretty much all major religions assert theirs is the ONLY way.

As far as christianity being the work of the devil...If one were to make a list of the good things done by Christianity and the Bad things done by Christianity, I believe the list gets pretty one sided pretty quickly.

Not done by the individual christian mind you. Not done by the parts that make the religion. Rather, the evils done by the religion as a whole. I believe this is the sinister nature of the Devil's greatest lie.

I believe Christians without even truly realizing it, worship Christ as a God. I believe that by changing the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday (the lord's day) destroys the covenant of the old testament and shows how deified Christ has become.

The fact that Christians do not realize they worship Jesus, forgot the Sabbath in his name, and are blissfully unaware of the evils their religion as a whole does, shows it to be the Devil's greatest lie. Her greatest work.

The only Idol anybody should worship is Billy Idol.

The only Idol anybody should worship is Billy Idol.

http://static.sky.com/images/pictures/1239745.jpg

I'm Billy Idol, and I approve this message.

I think condeming idol worship is really just competition elimination. Pretty much all major religions assert theirs is the ONLY way.

As far as christianity being the work of the devil...If one were to make a list of the good things done by Christianity and the Bad things done by Christianity, I believe the list gets pretty one sided pretty quickly.

Not done by the individual christian mind you. Not done by the parts that make the religion. Rather, the evils done by the religion as a whole. I believe this is the sinister nature of the Devil's greatest lie.

I believe Christians without even truly realizing it, worship Christ as a God. I believe that by changing the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday (the lord's day) destroys the covenant of the old testament and shows how deified Christ has become.

The fact that Christians do not realize they worship Jesus, forgot the Sabbath in his name, and are blissfully unaware of the evils their religion as a whole does, shows it to be the Devil's greatest lie. Her greatest work.

I like the emboldened point a lot. I'm so sick of these new (as in not ancient) Christian religions - Baptists, Methodists, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. So annoying. The first question I get from every one of those fucks is "do you believe in Jesus" or "are you saved?".

"Gelobistu in Gott, de allemaegdige faeder?" is the first and foremost question for a monotheist.

If you feel certain that you don't, why not try experimenting with a little self-decapitation?

Because I believe that would cause death, or the end of this illusion.

And I have already told you why I participate in this illusion.

As much as Obbe likes to think of himself as non-dependent on his physical self, something tells me he's a little more attached to the "here and now" than he likes to let on.

I do not claim to sit on a pedestal higher then everyone else.

I am exactly the same, as I choose experience over nothing.

That does not conclude anything 'true' about what I experience.

He kind of already did.

How is it harmful...to what?

Maya?

What, pray tell, does Obbe do with that knowledge?

Where exactly did I say I was the one using it most productively?

Hell, isn't that all perspective anyways?

I would of course argue that undergoing a path to enlightenment is the 'best' thing to do with the concept, and I have also already stated that I am, obviously, unenlightened.

I tend to agree with zik, for all the reasons he stated and then some. It's a cop-out.

A cop-out from what, exactly?

I already disagree with his reasons, so feel free to make more concrete ones, or introduce the others you mentioned.

Because I believe that would cause death, or the end of this illusion.

You lack conviction is what she was saying. IF you REALLY believed this were all an illusion you would end the illusion and find the truth. You lack conviction of the nonsense you puke onto my screen.

A cop-out from what, exactly?

A cop-out from realistic theistic of atheistic discussion. A cop-out from actually having to think about things at all. All you do is spew "illusion" and feel like you won an intellectual discussion. There is nothing intellectual about your ideas. I had the same ones when I was 11 or 12 myself.

IF you REALLY believed this were all an illusion you would end the illusion and find the truth.

I know the truth...I am the truth.

Why do you assume that I must therefore stop interacting with the illusion?

You've experienced what you believe to be illusions induced by certain drugs, no?

And did you not believe those drugs would cause illusions before you ingested them?

So why did you do it?

For the experience? If so, thats my answer too.

A cop-out from realistic theistic of atheistic discussion. A cop-out from actually having to think about things at all.

I think not, as any such thing is an illusion anyways.

It's not a cop-out, but quite blatantly, truth.

All you do is spew "illusion" and feel like you won an intellectual discussion.

No, you assume thats what I'm doing, because that feeling is your exact goal, being here presenting atheist arguments to any Christian you come across, feeling like you dominate theists.

All I am doing is pointing out the truth.

There is nothing intellectual about your ideas. I had the same ones when I was 11 or 12 myself.

Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way.

*

Be like a baby,
The Bible say,
So I stay like a baby
To this very day.

*

Maturity is a bitter disappointment for which no remedy exists, unless laughter can be said to remedy anything.

I'm not trying to seem like anything BP. I don't need that comfort.

No, you assume thats what I'm doing, because that feeling is your exact goal, being here presenting atheist arguments to any Christian you come across, feeling like you dominate theists.

Did you just say "I know you are but what am I"

As far as any bullshit nonsense you wish to puke onto my screen; I would like to refer you to this:

Yeah, Hare....I just don't care enough to sort through that, or your summery.

If your argument is basically that my concept cannot be proven, and is self-refuting...then, yeah. You're correct there.

You can look here for the spirit rabbit's amazing ownage of troll Obbe:

http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?p=9001714#post9001714

Did you just say "I know you are but what am I"

Are you going to attempt to deny that it was accurate?



As far as any bullshit nonsense you wish to puke onto my screen; I would like to refer you to this:

You can look here for the spirit rabbit's amazing ownage of troll Obbe:

http://www.totse.com/community/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=9001714

Hahaha, can't defend yourself, huh?

Care to...explain this ownage yourself?

Yes, my argument cannot be proven and is self-refuting. Demonstrating the point of my argument.

Oh, and uh....fucked up the link, I think.

Are you going to attempt to deny that it was accurate?

Hahaha, can't defend yourself, huh?

Care to...explain this ownage yourself?

Yes, my argument cannot be proven and is self-refuting. Demonstrating the point of my argument.

Oh, and uh....fucked up the link, I think.

Yes I deny the accuracy of your " I know you are but what am I" statement. This statement does reflect your age however.

Your argument is self-refuting by your own admission and thus a huge waste of time. That is just a fact. What should I defend myself from, exactly?

While it may feed my ego to tell an old earth christian what a detriment his meme complex is to society......it does have a purpose. To alert the supernatural sheep to the fact that they fuck shit up in the world more times than they help. Maybe get a few to stop.

Your nonsense serves NO purpose whatsoever as it is, by your own admission, self-refuting and thus pointless endevour. Then only logical conclusion for me as to why you do this is to somehow feed your underdevoloped ego and pass the time till your balls drop.

Hare Geist explained it better than I could. That is why I refer to him and what he said to shut you the fuck up.

This statement does reflect your age however.

My age is such a pressing issue for you...why?

Why would it matter if I were 11 or 12, 8 or 80? The truth remains the same.

Your argument is self-refuting by your own admission and thus a huge waste of time. That is just a fact. What should I defend myself from, exactly?

It is self refuting, but you only consider that to mean its a waste of 'time'.

What should you defend? Nothing, you should give into the truth.

But if you decided to deny that what I say is true, you must have a reason to do so, no? Demonstrate it, defend it.

Your nonsense serves NO purpose whatsoever

I disagree. And could argue nothing serves a purpose.

thus pointless endevour.

I disagree. And could argue everything is pointless.

Then only logical conclusion for me as to why you do this is to somehow feed your underdevoloped ego and pass the time till your balls drop.

Actually, I have explained why I do this.

Your argument is non-existent, as always.

Your argument is non-existent, as always.

Because theres no denying the truth.

Well...except your argument.

Where is it again?

Because theres no denying the truth.

Well...except your argument.

Where is it again?

Wow.

You just "I know you are but what am I" me again!

By your own belief structure your argument is non-existent. There is no truth to be found in your concepts because it is a self-refuting concept!!!

By your own belief structure your argument is non-existent.

Yes, because recognition of the argument is an illusion to what is true.

There is no truth to be found in your concepts because it is a self-refuting concept!!!

It refutes itself, along with every other experience. Whats left? The presence which was experiencing?

The...ahem, truth? :D

Yes, because recognition of the argument is an illusion to what is true.

It refutes itself, along with every other experience. Whats left? The presence which was experiencing?

The...ahem, truth? :D

There is no truth in your self-refuting argument. Hence, the name S E L F - R E F U T I N G ! ! ! ! !

You continue to utterly fail to grasp that.

There is no truth in your self-refuting argument.

Not in the argument, but what it leads to. The one thing thats left after everything has been refuted. The thing which 'I AM' recognizes as true.

'Being'.

Not in the argument, but what it leads to. The one thing thats left after everything has been refuted. The thing which 'I AM' recognizes as true.

'Being'.

Nope that too is an illusion. Refuted. :)

Nope that too is an illusion. Refuted. :)

If that were true, you would not exist.

Do you not exist BP? If you don't, then whats the 'you' that knows that?

If that were true, you would not exist.

Do you not exist BP? If you don't, then whats the 'you' that knows that?

The you is an illsuion. Existence is an illusion.

This IS an easy cop out way to debate Obbe. Thanks for playing.

Existence is an illusion

Hahaha, does an illusion not require an observer?

Ya. Copping-out like that is an easy way to avoid what I say.

Ignoring it is even easier.

Why would an illusion require an observer?
An illusion will remain an illusion whether or not it is observed.
If it were not an illusion then it would not be an illusion.

An illusion will remain an illusion whether or not it is observed.

How can you know that if you are not observing the experience?

Also, how can it be an illusion if theres no known truth to deem it illusory?