I've been reading through quantum mechanic/ spirituality books, and I am convinced they are on the verge of truth. However, I believe it will soon be used to form a new-age religion used to manipulate the public, just as christiananity has been (and I wonder if it's not completely for that purpose, since christianity is finally being realized as out-dated).

However, I still can't fully believe it, until I actually die, unless there is some other proof that comes to light. I believe in creation (or something like it), but at the same time, I dont believe that this promises me eternal conciousness. In fact, if a concious being controls this universe, (and actually has total power over it, wich i dont really believe), he's a very sick-minded creature, who I would really rather die than spend eternity with. The thought of dying still depresses me. Never being with my family again, and I still believe I will be, but like anything, I cant fully believe it 100%.

Anyway, I always start thinking about how a person lives on non-spiritually. If you think about it, as long as mankind exists, only cowards die. True, no one will remember an average joe 200 years from now, but I certainly remember Napoleon, and often quote him in my mind alot of times when i need courage. Wether or not I care about anything he believed, he wasn't a coward. I'm sure people will remember Hitler 200 years from now, and for those who aren't brainwashed into hating him, will remember him when they need courage. For the people who roll their eyes at Napoleons quotes about not fearing death, those are the cowards who WILL die.

However, even cowards, who make no impact on society still live on. My great grandfather died when I was 10, and while not being a coward, he made an impact on my life. I'll always remember him, and in one way or another, he had an effect on the person I am today, and that will effect the way I raise my children, or even if I didn't have kids, effect the way I change people around me. Good or bad, everyone I know will live on inside of me after they are gone. Their memory dies with me, but the effects I had on the people around me live on.

Death doesn't scare me, just depresses me, if I think about true death. There is no use in fearing anything that is inevitable. I dont just want to live on in the typical way everyone else does, I want to live on like Hitler and Napoleon, and inspire people in the future. While my great grandfathers memory will die with me, Hitlers memory will live on for centuries to come, because he made a true impact on the world, or atleast made a serious attempt to. I might not make an impact on a scale like that, but I can make sure that I am thought of with honor, and people pass on stories about things I do in my lifetime. And I intend to do that, because that is the only way to be sure that you live on. That is the only afterlife we are actually promised. And while I really hope I'll be with my loved ones after my physical death, I know it's not promised. The main thing for me, is not living an average life, truly not fearing death (truly, like how most people make the claim, yet still go on with their pathetic existance) I mean truly not fear it, and do my best to move other people. And if you truly want eternal life, that is the only way. And it's not any more depressing, than reincarnation if you think about it. The theory behind that, is the memory of your past life is gone, so it's as if you died. If you cant remember something, then thats no different than it never happening in the first place, but with that, most believe eventually you will remember it all, but you can see what Im saying.

And even if the brainwashed public looks at you as they do Hitler, they still have to say "he was atleast brave". Napoleon for instance didn't care about anything but power, but I can still look up to him for his bravery, and wisdom, as I hope one day people will do to me. If there were a set of rules to follow, common sense would tell you that "god" would give them to you. Might is right, and bravery is something to be admired by everyone.

thoughts?

and for all the hardcore atheists, you should be doing something like i am. if you truly believe in absolutely nothing, whats 70 years to eternity? you believe in nothing for eternity after you die, and you wont remember life, so whats stopping you from actually living your life how you want to. and dont tell me you are, if your a janitor, or something like that. if you wern't afraid of death (wich nobody really should be no matter what, but especially atheists, since you dont have rules) why not go on a crime spree?

If you die, it's the same as if you lived a full life, because you dont THINK ANYTHING, atleast thats what you say. Plus, I think I've lived more of a life now, than most people will in 80 years. "its better to live one day as a lion, than a lifetime as a lamb". If you were true atheists, I dont understand why you live such sad, and boring lives. (the majority of you, im sure there are people who dont believe in god that actually do something interesting)

I have a purpose though so it's different. But wether or not you do, it doesn't matter. You should be trying to have as much fun as you can while your alive. And for people who do have a purpose, they should be making as much of an effort as they can to have an effect on others, and to die for their purpose.

What does this have to do with Quantum Physics?

What does this have to do with Quantum Physics?

the idea behind the post, nothing really. it's more of a question to people who believe in no afterlife why they're so useless.

the idea behind the post, nothing really. it's more of a question to people who believe in no afterlife why they're so useless.

The essential thesis behind most non-belief in the afterlife is that people are essentially useless and that the term "useless" has no objective meaning, and is only a human value judgement. It is therefore useless being useless.

Was this a critique of such a belief or something because I didn't really get it? I just got "don't fear death" or "don't be a coward" or something like that.

...you wern't afraid of death (wich nobody really should be no matter what, but especially atheists, since you dont have rules) why not go on a crime spree?.

B/C spending the rest of my life in Jail would not be my idea of a life well spent.

...If you were true atheists, I dont understand why you live such sad, and boring lives. (the majority of you, im sure there are people who dont believe in god that actually do something interesting) .

sad boring life would be taking time out of my 80 years in a single lifetime life of lion to post on here how others should live.

...And for people who do have a purpose, they should be making as much of an effort as they can to have an effect on others, and to die for their purpose.

Making an effort to have an effect on others and die for that purpose. You sure your not a christian fundamentalist?

would someone who didn't fear death ever surrender and be imprisoned? no of course not. people who spend their lives in prison are afraid of death, if they hadn't been they wouldn't be in prison (atleast not for anything serious). someone who had something that needed to be done later might go willingly so long as it was something small.

why am i posting on the internet? because other than one on one talking to people, i dont really have a voice, other than pirating radio stations.

"to die is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily"-napoleon

working a nine to five is living inglorious, and defeated. if you dont fear death, then you shouldn't fear anything, because killing you is the worst thing someone can do to you. if your an atheist, and dont fear death, you shouldn't be cleaning toilets lol. what a pathetic life, if we all end up the same. if we dont remember this life, you wont care how long you lived, so all that matters is the present. if you dont think like this, and truly believe in nothing, your the weakest form of coward that exists.

i dont believe in anything for sure, other than what i said. insuring that there will be people like me in the future, and who are inspired by the person i was. that is how im promised life after death. more importantly a message of mine, but also my memory, and i can only have that by truly showing bravery.

even if im watching some spooks in a shootout with police, i know they had no other reason for commiting their crimes, other than thier own greed, but i still have to say "wow, thats how you should die".

if you have no rules to follow, what is the purpose of being an average slave-to-the-system member of society? there is no excuse. there is no reasoning behind having any fear of death, unless you believe in santa clause in the sky, and he's "gunna send youz to he11", and even that isn't fearing death, it's fearing the consequences of "evil". but if you dont believe in anything, you dont have any rules to go by.

im a christian? wow that hurts, specially since how c001 it is to be an atheist today :rolleyes: that goes right along with bush-bashing. actually your the one who actually seems like that, because if you aren't afraid of death, what reason do you have to go on with your pathetic life, other than being punished by some ghost in wherever if you "break the roo1z"? there is none!

Im not an atheist, I consider myself to be a type of agnostic. I believe I live on, and will be able to think after my physical death, but I am not promised that. The only life i am promised after this, is in other people, and my memory. Cleaning toilets isn't a good way to make people remember you.

If you dont understand what I'm saying, you cant think very deep. Say you lived a life before this, you cant remember it now. Do you care now wether you died at 25 or 80? no, because you cant remember it, same as in death (if thats how it is). So all that matters is the present, and if you have no purpose, the only thing you should be concerned with is making your life as comforatable as possible no matter who you have to hurt to do it. And who do you really hurt? they wont remember life either right?

If you dont understand what I'm saying, you cant think very deep. Say you lived a life before this, you cant remember it now. Do you care now wether you died at 25 or 80? no, because you cant remember it, same as in death (if thats how it is). So all that matters is the present, and if you have no purpose, the only thing you should be concerned with is making your life as comforatable as possible no matter who you have to hurt to do it. And who do you really hurt? they wont remember life either right?

No.

As an athiest I beleive I will die and then there will be nothing. That makes me want to live here as long as I can. I will enjoy this something before there is nothing.

You have it backwards. B/C there is nothing after this life, I will live this life as much as I can. I am not afraid of death but I want to keep it away as long as I can. Momento Mori.

To rehash this old argument of "how can or why should an athiest have or be a moral person" is foolish. It is a losing argument. I would not start it if I were you.

I have no reason to believe death would be anything more then the 'end' of a single perspective out of an infinity.

Whatever the afterlife is, whatever will come of the world, every person is a possible link in the chain of it's destiny, and you dont become that living the life of most atheists, or most people period.

Obbe, your exactly right. If there is nothing then thats it, again, you only continue on, in the minds of other people, and thats only if you made an impact on the world.

I believe in something, I believe we're here for a reason, but I also believe nature (obviously) and the laws of nature were created by this something. And the media and government are constantly telling us to go against it, and thats what I think is evil. Wether I live on or not, as long as there is a reason that man was created, me making the impact I want to, will allow me to live on, and in a good way.

However, if I were an atheist, I dont see myself following any rules. I would do whatever brought me pleasure, until I was dead. Once it's over, it's over, I dont think anything (thats what you believe), so it doesn't matter how long you are hear, when in the end, you spend eternity in nothingness. So, no, if your an atheist, there is no reason to have morals or follow rules, other than fear of the establishment. And isn't that what you try so desprately to be against? the establishment? They're the only ones who put the idea of right and wrong into your heads since you dont believe anything. If we all die, we all think nothing, and do the same thing, there is no right or wrong. I explained why I follow rules, and it's because I do believe in what I've been given proof of. I live in that proof, and anything that goes against the natural laws of it is wrong, or anything that tells me to, and thats who I want to die trying to kill off, and inspire others to do the same.

Obbe, your exactly right. If there is nothing then thats it, again, you only continue on, in the minds of other people, and thats only if you made an impact on the world.

I'm not sure if thats what I was saying, but if it makes sense to you, then keep on truckin'.

in your opinion, we all die, we all have the same fate, and nothing matters, so no, i dont get why an atheist should have morals, or why anyone should try to hang on to life. i agree, we all do die, we could possibly spend eternity in nothingness, wich is exactly why it's stupid to try to hang on to your physical life when we all have to give it up, and not remember anything after it.

and if i make an impact on people, not only do i live on, but the people who effected me, and the people who effected them, and made them the people they were, and so on, and so on, live on with my memory.

joe schmoe who died of a heart attack last week is dead. hitler, however, has millions of people who are inspired by him one way or another (no matter how much the jews hate that), so he's still alive, no matter what the after life is, and also anyone who had any effect on his life, and made him the person he was.

An atheist believes death is the same as his pre-life, think about that. That is your future (or so you believe), so why would you care wether or not you lived another 60 years or died tomorrow? I dont, because we all die, and i'd rather die for something tonight, than live 60 more years, watch my friends and family die, and then die, and have nothing to show for my life but bills.

So, in a way, we all live on, in a reincarnation type way. in that, you aren't concious really, your memory is erased, so you might as well have died. Hitler, and Napoleon may or may not be concious, but they are still very much alive in the minds of people, and will be, as long as man exists.

in your opinion

No, I don't think all of the following is.

we all die, we all have the same fate, and nothing matters

Deaths gonna happen, and value depends on perspective, true.

i dont get why an atheist should have morals, or why anyone should try to hang on to life.

Some consider experience to be enjoyable, and valuable. I can certainly agree with that.

I also agree with having morals, because peace within the mechanisms of this illusion is dependent on certain morals, like not harming others...and I believe perceptions of other entities are really our self from another perspective...we are all one.

i agree, we all do die, we could possibly spend eternity in nothingness, wich is exactly why it's stupid to try to hang on to your physical life when we all have to give it up, and not remember anything after it.

I believe that awareness of nothing is the true basic reality, God if you will, and I do believe time does not exist when in that state...

But I also believe that experiences can be considered valuable, they are infinite, and until you experience one which leads to enlightenment you will continue to experience them all.

why would you care wether or not you lived another 60 years or died tomorrow? I dont

Suicide is an option at this moment.

yeah, time doesn't exist, thats why I believe it's possible the conciousness is eternal, but again, not promised. existence either came from nothing, or is eternal, so the mind could possibly be also.

Again, if you dont follow religion, you can either say the laws of nature is right (wich wouldn't put you above violence), or you can just believe nothing, and have the "fuck it" mentality, either way, it seems you would likely die in the same way.

I like being alive, and there are people I love. But they all die too, and we'll either be together, or we wont, I cant do anything about that, just like I cant about the fact that I have to die eventually. I used to think about what would happen when one of my parents died, and it sometimes scared me what I would end up doing, because then I wouldn't have anything to live for. But then, I didn't feel that I had a purpose. Now I do. There are certain things I want to do before I go, but I still would choose death over long-term imprisonment. Again, I love certain people, but we'll either be together or we wont, whatever the truth, it's inevitable as is death, so the most I can do is make sure Im on good terms with these people before I go. That is the only thing that could make me fear death, is the last words with any of them being unpleasent, but as long as I talk to them one last time, thats all I can really do. Their life on earth is temporary just like mine, so I really dont have any reason to live, other than to accomplish a few things, like just raising my children to the age that I will live on in them, wich isn't old at all.

Suicide is always an option, but thats for someone with the "fuckit" mentality. Why give the enemy pleasure, when you could go out columbine style. Again, I have nothing in common with them, but they chose to make their enemies feel the pain, that they felt they put them through, instead of just wasting their own lives, and I can definately relate to that. Im not above violence, because that is part of nature, and if I die, knowing that I've inflicted some pain on the families (as i've felt living), then I'll die happy. Commiting suicide is to die defeated, unless it's to avoid giving the pleasure of someone else doing it.

EDIT: like i said, i have nothing in common with the columbine shooters, and guess they were probably nerds (from the stories), but fearlessness is looked up to universally. If they lived on average lives, I would never know who they were.

I have no reason to believe death would be anything more then the 'end' of a single perspective out of an infinity.

Sigh....

Can you explain that please?

Can you explain that please?

...

I see no reason to believe death is an end to experience.

I believe all to be possible perspectives of reality. I believe the self, God, experiences this infinity while not in the state.

...

I see no reason to believe death is an end to experience.

I believe all to be possible perspectives of reality. I believe the self, God, experiences this infinity while not in the state.

I see no reason to believe death is not the end of experience. Do you? If so what grants you this insight?

I see no reason to believe death is not the end of experience. Do you? If so what grants you this insight?

I do.

'The state' does not include time. There was no beginning, there will be no end.

Reality, existence, they are. They will never not be.

I do.

'The state' does not include time. There was no beginning, there will be no end.

Reality, existence, they are. They will never not be.

Science and physics and the knowledge of thousands of learned men scream the opposite in your face.

How old are you?

Science and physics and the knowledge of thousands of learned men scream the opposite in your face.

Oh, and you know this 'knowledge' to be true, and 'others' to have existed how?

How old are you?

I am eternal. Time does not exist.

Oh, and you know this 'knowledge' to be true, and 'others' to have existed how?

I am eternal. Time does not exist.

LOL

LOL

Wow. Your cute simple wittle ideas give you away child.

LOL

LOL

Wow. Your cute simple wittle ideas give you away child.

Its back to this?

Alright. We'll, lets hear you prove your perception.

My perception is real. I am real. You are real.

Your a fucking idiot for INSISTING otherwise.

My perception is real. I am real. You are real.

Ah.....


Ahhh....


AHHHHHHH......


AHH-

PROVE IT!!!

It is proven kidiot. It is proven.

It is proven kidiot. It is proven.

Nope. Sorry.

You mean prove it to you....

Why? I do not care what someone as simple minded and childish as yourself thinks I have to prove to them. At all.

It is proven to the people that matter.

You mean prove it to you....

Why? I do not care what someone as simple minded and childish as yourself thinks I have to prove to them. At all.

It is proven to the people that matter.

Hahahahahaha.

Alright. Enjoy yourself.

I fear death. Because I don't want to fucking die. But I believe if I keep living my life well with contemplated action, coming to terms with my death when the time comes will be easier.
I look at it and think. Life really is pain. Like Sisyphus we're constantly knocked back when our goal is in sight.
Our bodies, our minds, are just scientific processes. We are not so much divine beings in the way we imagine, but a means to an end. An expression of the will of the universe.
It's our fate to die, and as such, then our lives must really be insignificant. Look up at the stars on LSD and meditate on this.

Regarding immortality, I look at it this way. The most comprehensive group we belong to is merely existing.
We are born of stars, not separate to anything that exists, and somehow blessed enough to contemplate our position in the universe.
Realizing I'm a part of this great cosmic act fills me with wonder.

So basically your entire theory can be summed up as carpe diem?

and for all the hardcore atheists, you should be doing something like i am. if you truly believe in absolutely nothing, whats 70 years to eternity? you believe in nothing for eternity after you die, and you wont remember life, so whats stopping you from actually living your life how you want to. and dont tell me you are, if your a janitor, or something like that. if you wern't afraid of death (wich nobody really should be no matter what, but especially atheists, since you dont have rules) why not go on a crime spree?

If you die, it's the same as if you lived a full life, because you dont THINK ANYTHING, atleast thats what you say. Plus, I think I've lived more of a life now, than most people will in 80 years. "its better to live one day as a lion, than a lifetime as a lamb". If you were true atheists, I dont understand why you live such sad, and boring lives. (the majority of you, im sure there are people who dont believe in god that actually do something interesting)

I have a purpose though so it's different. But wether or not you do, it doesn't matter. You should be trying to have as much fun as you can while your alive. And for people who do have a purpose, they should be making as much of an effort as they can to have an effect on others, and to die for their purpose.

Everyone's afraid of death. If you aren't, you're lieing.

OP, look up secular humanism.

Ah.....


Ahhh....


AHHHHHHH......


AHH-

PROVE IT!!!

Prove Solipsism. What regulates this illusory world of ours, if Sollipsism is true? How can this illusion exist and continue to exist in an unaltered state over a single being for such an extended period of time?

Isn't it valuable to note the Empirical Sciences as they describe the mannerisms and nature of this illusion?

Prove Solipsism.

Impossible.

But you already know its true.

What regulates this illusory world of ours, if Sollipsism is true? How can this illusion exist and continue to exist in an unaltered state over a single being for such an extended period of time?

Time doesn't exist.

What regulates it? You do.

Isn't it valuable to note the Empirical Sciences as they describe the mannerisms and nature of this illusion?

Value is a perspective.

One could ask you: is it the spread of Christianity not valuable?

Science and logic...I think are great, they work very well...within an illusion.

But you also assume things to already be true when using them, when you only know one thing to truly be true.

I've been reading through quantum mechanic/ spirituality books, and I am convinced they are on the verge of truth. However, I believe it will soon be used to form a new-age religion used to manipulate the public, just as christiananity has been (and I wonder if it's not completely for that purpose, since christianity is finally being realized as out-dated).


thoughts?

I seriously doubt that will happen--religion is sort of a Piscean Age artifact, and I think will drop away , like a scab falling off when a wound has healed.

More and more modern writers are anti-authoritarian, their Plotinian emanations reflecting the neo-gnostic tone of the Aquarian Age--people like the rabbi who wrote "The messiah Isn't Coming, and You Are It," which emphasizes the need for individual action. And implicit in the Walsch canon is the idea that we are All One, and to think of oneself as "special" is a grave and dangerous error.

The Abrahamic religions, almost by definition, are dis-empowering. The new paradigm stresses the power of the individual, as manifested in free will and self-creation.

The thread starters Statement has Gnostic undertones here. You believe in the fact that the creator is sick minded. The creator is not sick mind its the creation that is sick mind.

Lets not forget that evil only comes into existence because of free will. I can do the right thing or the wrong thing. However, God knowing this since the beginning understood that in order to give free will one needs more than one choice and one choice can bring the creation closer to god the other distance themselves from god. You cannot have one without the other... You cannot have Cold without Hot. Just as you cannot have good without Bad. If I took bad away how will I know if something is good? I would have only ONE RESPONSE ; ONE WAY OF DOING THINGS! This is not free will...

So to conclude: Evil springs from the ability to do wrong and because of that suffering is part of our life. However when we suffer extraordinary things take place. Look at the Jesus story of him suffering on the cross or even other historical events like the 300 Spartans.... Only 300 than they all died and there whole nation went to war... 300 Suffered but got the rest moving and inevitably saved the western world!