Today in my honors class we were discussing the new play we were starting (merchant of venice) and my instructor likes to be controversial when discussing issues.

He told everyone who agreed with him to stand at the top of the stairs, and everyone who disagreed to stand at the bottom. Here was his question:

"Do you believe that only Christians who believe in Jesus will get into Heaven."

Surprisingly, the class split roughly equal (there are 50 in the class), and when we started discussing our issues amongst ourselves before debating the other side, here was all i heard, "Jesus loves everyone and it doesn't matter blah blah" "my religion still believes in heaven .. so its the same" "as long as you believe in god you'll be saved." "It's just a different version of heaven."

When i interjected that some of us don't believe in ANY Gods or heavens, everyone in my group paused.. and our spokesperson said, "oh.. i forgot about atheists."

When we had our debate i tried to talk from my point of view, "how is your religion different from the ones that came before it." "Faith is a broken concept: here is why"

But the entire time i felt aliented, the people in my groups arguments were all biblical based, all started by saying, "Well, im a christian too, but i think people like in africa will go to heaven, and babies.."

I realized that in the entire honors class i was the only atheist. I felt like i had alienated myself from my peers and that i was the only person who had stopped believing in fairy tales. I had a few people come to me after class and say, "If you ever want to talk..." I politely responded all the while feeling more and more depressed that there is nobody who is like me.

You always have &T. :)

Dont worry about it; Even though AP classes are supposed to be filled with 'smart' kids, they usually aren't. They don't even seem to understand their own religions from the sound of it.

I politely responded all the while feeling more and more depressed that there is nobody who is like me.

You always have &T. :)

honestly, the only comfort i had was that i could come to the "MGCBTSOOYG" and know somebody else has felt like that before.

Why feel discomforted?

Fuck 'em.

Same here. I'm the only atheist in almost all my classes, 'cept World Geography, where I sit across from this agnostic girl. She's cool.

:D

Why feel discomforted?

Fuck 'em.

Because i like being sociable, I don't like feeling alienated from my peers.

It just saddens me, i felt depressed for the entire rest of the class period.

Because i like being sociable, I don't like feeling alienated from my peers.

Then be sociable and have discussions. They probably have many misconceptions about atheism, and this would be an opportunity to correctly inform them.

There should be no need to feel alienated, unless they are actually alienating you...and in that case, you shouldn't let them. Show them you are a good person, inform them of your opinion.

That, or fuck 'em, if they would alienate you over that.

I was thinking about something along those lines today. Say if I was born somewhere where there is no christianity. I would not even have the choice to accept jesus into my life and get to heaven because I would not even know anything of it. Does this automatically send me to hell?

I was thinking about something along those lines today. Say if I was born somewhere where there is no christianity. I would not even have the choice to accept jesus into my life and get to heaven because I would not even know anything of it. Does this automatically send me to hell?
Not according to the belief of most Christians. But all it takes is one douche bad missionary to tell you about Jesus and fuck everything up for you. Once you reject it, say hello to hellfire!

Its fucking dumb of them to exclude you over your damn religion choice. That is as dumb as them excluding you because, say, they all like pizza but you dont.

Not according to the belief of most Christians. But all it takes is one douche bad missionary to tell you about Jesus and fuck everything up for you. Once you reject it, say hello to hellfire!

Haha. Ruling out the debate whether or not god exists, I just find it funny that they believe that their god goes around damning people to hell for not following what he says. Sounds like a tyrant to me...

Op, you have my deepest sympathy. In high scholl, I was the only athiest in the honors class. In English class, we had to give a little speech on our religion--so did my little anti-God rant, and when th stunned silence, Alayne Livingston asked "But what happens after you die?" I looked her straight in the eye and replied coldly "YOU ROT."

At the time, of course, I was unaware of the new paradigm, and thought that if you didn't buy the paranoid, micro-managing deity portrayed in the Bible, then atheism was the only alternative.

A few years ago, as I slowly lost faith in God... I too had these lonely feelings. I can now say with a smile, that this is something that can be overcome, and something that can (in my opinion) make you a better, more full bodied person in the process.

Whenever I had these feelings... These are the pages I would often turn to:



Chapter Eight, The Tree on the Hill

Zarathustra's eye had perceived that a certain youth avoided him. And as he walked alone one evening over the hills surrounding the town called "The Pied Cow," behold, there he found the youth sitting leaning against a tree, and gazing with wearied look into the valley. Zarathustra then laid hold of the tree beside which the youth sat, and spoke thus:

"If I wished to shake this tree with my hands, I should not be able to do so.

But the wind, which we do not see, troubles and bends it as it lists. We are worst bent and troubled by invisible hands."

Then the youth arose disconcerted, and said: "I hear Zarathustra, and just now was I thinking of him!" Zarathustra answered:

"Why are you frightened on that account?- But it is the same with man as with the tree.

The more he seeks to rise into the height and light, the more vigorously do his roots struggle earthward, downward, into the dark and deep- into evil."

"Yes, into evil!" cried the youth. "How is it possible that you have discovered my soul?"

Zarathustra smiled, and said: "Many a soul one can never discover, unless one firsts invents it."

"Yes, into evil!" cried the youth once more.

"You said the truth, Zarathustra. I trust myself no longer since I sought to rise into the height, and nobody trusts me any longer; how does that happen?

I change too quickly: my today refutes my yesterday. I often overleap the steps when I climb; none of the steps pardons me for it.

When aloft, I find myself always alone. No one speaks to me; the frost of solitude makes me tremble. What do I seek in the heights?

My contempt and my longing increase together; the higher I climb, the more do I despise him who climbs. What does he seek in the heights?

How ashamed I am of my climbing and stumbling! How I mock my violent panting! How I hate him who flies! How tired I am on the height!"

Here the youth was silent. And Zarathustra contemplated the tree beside which they stood, and spoke thus:

"This tree stands lonely here on the hills; it has grown up high above man and beast.

And if it wanted to speak, there would be no one who could understand it: so high has it grown.

Now it waits and waits,- for what does it wait? It dwells too close to the seat of the clouds; it waits- for the lightning?"

When Zarathustra had said this, the youth called out with violent gestures: "Yes, Zarathustra, you speak the truth. I longed for my destruction, when I wanted to be in the heights, and you are the lightning for which I waited! Behold, what have I been since you have appeared amongst us? It is my envy of you that has destroyed me!"- Thus spoke the youth, and wept bitterly. Zarathustra, however, put his arm about him, and led the youth away with him.

And when they had walked a while together, Zarathustra began to speak thus:

It rends my heart. Better than your words can express it, your eyes tell me all your danger.

You are not yet free; you still search for freedom. You are too weary from your search, and too wakeful.

You aspire to the heights; you thirst for the stars. But your evil impulses also thirst for freedom.

Your wild dogs want freedom; they bark for joy in their cellar when your spirit tries to open all prison doors.

To me you are still a prisoner who seeks his freedom: ah! in such prisoners the soul becomes clever, but also deceitful and wicked.

And the liberated spirit must still purify himself. Much of the prison and the mould still remains in him: his eye has still to become pure.

Yes, I know your danger. But by my love and hope I beseech you: do not throw away your love and hope!

You still feel noble, and others still feel your nobility, though they bear you a grudge and cast evil glances. Know that the noble one stands in everyone's way.

To the good, also, a noble one stands in the way: and even when they call him a good man, they want to push him aside.

The noble man would create the new, and a new virtue. The good want the old, and that the old should be preserved.

But it is not the danger of the noble man that he might become one of the good, but that he might become a blusterer, a scoffer, or a destroyer.

Ah! I have known noble ones who lost their highest hope. And then they slandered all high hopes.

Then they lived shamelessly in brief pleasures, only lived from day to day.

"Spirit too is lust,"- they said. The wings of their spirit are broken; and now their spirit crawls about, and defiles what it gnaws.

Once they thought of becoming heroes; now they are libertines. The idea of the hero offends and troubles them.

But by my love and hope I beseech you: do not throw away the hero in your soul! Keep sacred your highest hope!-

Thus spoke Zarathustra.


Hang in there kid. :)

Look for comfort from within, not some stupid text or something someone else has said about life.

That would be just as foolish and weak as following an organized religion.

Wow I feel bad for you man...

I am an athiest, but I have a lot of other atheists at my school. Mainly becuase my friends are smart. I have 1, POSSIBLY 4 atheist teachers at my school too. One makes hints about dumb theists ideas and believes in evolution, my health teacher believes in evolution, my LA teachers seems at least agnostic, and My science teacher.. Well he teaches science and biology so thats almost a given. I think im pretty lucky.

I also have zealous idiots who don't deserve free education.

One wears a shirt that says 'I'm a ninja for Christ.'
So stupid lol.

Back on topic, make a complaint about that teacher. Its unconstitutional. Read up on atheism vs. theism.
I would bet anything that google has some good articles... lol.
Wikihow does though.
Read the theist ones as well, and find counters to the proofs. I have actually seen some good ones.

Be sure to print some flyers pro-theism and anyonomously tack them up everywhere. (JK)

Gl with everything, and my sympathy.
-grapes

Religion has always existed within humanity and will always exist. And there will always be skeptics and atheists. Best thing to do is acknowledge it and go on.

dude that sucks, it really does. My school is full of atheists, well... sort of. Most are technically christians because their parents were raised christian but they aren't practising or anything... the might just go to church for christmas. Anyways, back to the point, don't worry about it. It can always be fun getting into heated political discussion with religious people of sorts. And if you want to you can always pretend your into some crazy pagan/cult/satanic type stuff... people will never look at you the same way though if you were to do that and they were all religious and whatnot.

But still, i doubt that anyone will remember it or even if they do they wont care, unless they are absolute ignorant fucks then it should be ok

i think i'll have a discussion with the girl who said, "If you ever want to talk sometime..."

plus she's hot. >.>

Look for comfort from within, not some stupid text or something someone else has said about life.

That would be just as foolish and weak as following an organized religion.

God forbid I try to help somebody out... right?

My comfort, my strength, all came from within me. But I'll admit that growing up, there were hard times... and the words by that man there did a whole lot to push me over the edge and CAUSE me to look within myself, and set me down the road to find those things.

Only a fool would live life without exploring the ideas of others... and only the weakest of stoics would float through life without finding meaning in such sources.

There was nothing wrong that I did. This text has helped me in the past. Its nothing close to following an organized religion... because its not FOLLOWING anything at all, but taking something deep and meaningful, and applying it to your own life. Hell, even the bible has positive messages I can grasp and relate to my own life. There is nothing wrong with that... I'm not selling myself to it and blindly following everything it says.

Fuck off. I'm helping the guy.

Its ok, man. You aren't alone. You just haven't found anyone else in person yet. Neither have I, but its alright. My friends don't mind, even if none of them are athiest.

I feel alienated some times, but most of the time, people don't give you shit for it, so I get over it. They might be a little confused, or question you, but its usually more for their own curiosity than to fuck with you.

Keep on keepin' on man.

Fuck off. I'm helping the guy.

I wasn't referring to you. I understand you are trying to help him.

He will learn to help himself.

My apologies Obbe.

Yet in spite of all of that... I do agree. For any help to ever come, it has to start from within.

i think i'll have a discussion with the girl who said, "If you ever want to talk sometime..."

plus she's hot. >.>

Yeah, have a discussion about your penis in her mouth.

Edit- its understandable Kazz.

Being alienated sucks man...I can understand. Just try to realize that no one was trying to keep you away or exclude you. Its ok and it is your right to have your own beliefs and discuss em...so stop being such a little crybaby and accept that those who dont tread the most walked road are looked on with apprehension, doubt, and even fear. All great minds, people, and ideas are alienated at first because the masses simply dont like change.Unfortunately "truth is not measured in mass appeal". Not to say that your views were right or wrong but the most important thing you can do after this is learn that you need to man up and not be a whiny wussy.

Today in my honors class we were discussing the new play we were starting (merchant of venice) and my instructor likes to be controversial when discussing issues.

He told everyone who agreed with him to stand at the top of the stairs, and everyone who disagreed to stand at the bottom. Here was his question:

"Do you believe that only Christians who believe in Jesus will get into Heaven."

Surprisingly, the class split roughly equal (there are 50 in the class), and when we started discussing our issues amongst ourselves before debating the other side, here was all i heard, "Jesus loves everyone and it doesn't matter blah blah" "my religion still believes in heaven .. so its the same" "as long as you believe in god you'll be saved." "It's just a different version of heaven."

When i interjected that some of us don't believe in ANY Gods or heavens, everyone in my group paused.. and our spokesperson said, "oh.. i forgot about atheists."

When we had our debate i tried to talk from my point of view, "how is your religion different from the ones that came before it." "Faith is a broken concept: here is why"

But the entire time i felt aliented, the people in my groups arguments were all biblical based, all started by saying, "Well, im a christian too, but i think people like in africa will go to heaven, and babies.."

I realized that in the entire honors class i was the only atheist. I felt like i had alienated myself from my peers and that i was the only person who had stopped believing in fairy tales. I had a few people come to me after class and say, "If you ever want to talk..." I politely responded all the while feeling more and more depressed that there is nobody who is like me.

Dude what are you talking about? You're one of the fucking proud! Fuck those cocksuckers. You really wanna feel social with those pieces of shit? Obviously you haven't felt the joy of being a snooty atheist with your nose in the air.

It's true man, these people are not like you; they're idiots. You need to release yourself from the idea that they're in the same mental realm as you. They're people still, yes, but not the way you are.

Just find some free thinkers man. Follow the smell of weed, they won't be far from that.

As long as you think for yourself, you will feel alienated. Atleast in school.

You know what's even more annoying than blind christians? Blind atheists. There were a FUCK lot of them at my old school...

Look at it this way, my high school has this club. This club is very large, and very foolish. This club is called "The Athletes For Christ." Their logo is a giant cross and my school is covered in their recruiting posters.

Its fucking dumb of them to exclude you over your damn religion choice. That is as dumb as them excluding you because, say, they all like pizza but you dont.

HE DOESN'T LIKE PIZZA!!!, YOU DESERVE TO BURN IN THE FIERY PITS OF HELL SON!

Oh wait, it was <Insert word here which i don't remember>. ^^