Someone suggested End Of Faith, by Sam Harris, What are other good ones?


Yes I know this technically should be in printed matter, but i feel its more related to this forum, as the books I want suggested pertain strictly to this topic.

End of Faith is a great choice.

Also, Letter to a Christian Nation Sam Harris
The Demon Haunted World Carl Sagan
The God Delusion Richard Dawkins

I was going to say Carl Sagan Demon Haunted World...

Instead I will say an average 8th grade science book.

I don't think people who have been duped into believing one book is the be all end all of existence should really turn to another to cure themselves. A little bit of introspection goes a long way. Add in some experience and observation, and you've got yourself some critical thought!

Anyone who has doubtless faith in Christianity and believes the bible is the complete and literal truth is obviously operating on a sub-human intelligence. Quite possibly these people are just heavily brainwashed, isolated, and ignorant, though.

I think if you sit down with an 8th grade science book and the bible and read them together.........this is the best result for someone renouncing their imaginary friend for grown ups.

"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
- Isaac Asimov

^^^atheism isn't just non-christianity, but since you say that, you're a perfect example of why I say atheism is now the new satanism (the new christianity parody).

but that is true, I'd have to say the bible. that goes for any religion, if you ask a preacher, or rabbi, or whatever else, why a perfect god would have created imperfect things, he will tell you "because the bible/quran/buddah said you shouldn't think about it". lol, yeah, you should have blind faith in anything you read/hear.

but the truth is simple, a perfect god wouldn't create anything imperfect. the universe is a creation of god (all religions believe this) so, the bottom line is there is no right and wrong, good or evil, there is only action and consequence. The group of people who follow the law of nature will be the only thing left in the end, the universe is a perfect machine. I dont claim to know the truth about the soul/spirit, but again, god created the universe, so it is perfect, so there is no reason to fear something is perfect, so in that sense, you should just have faith, but then again, you dont have any choice, because what I stated is the only proof we have.

Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaking_the_Spell) by Dan Dennett.

What a terrible thread.

What a terrible thread.

Obbe can speak vernacular english!!

The question you have to ask yourself is why do you want someone else to stop believing. It's a personal choice, just like people shouldn't try to convert you, you shouldn't try to convert them.

For hardcore believers of Christianity I recommend "Misquoting Jesus" by Bart Ehrman, since most evangelicals think the Bible is the end all and be all, and this book was paramount to toppling my former Christian faith.

For moderate Christians and people of other faiths, I'd say "The God Delusion".

A People's History of the United States

Gold, Greed & Genocide (Http://www.1849.org)

Animal Farm

But you can't really expect someone who worships, idolizes and believes in comic book like fairy tales to be able to make sense out of a real book.

A-bombed Ginkgo trees in Hiroshima, Japan (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kwanten/hiroshima.htm)

A People's History of the United States

Gold, Greed & Genocide (Http://www.1849.org)

Animal Farm

But you can't really expect someone who worships, idolizes and believes in comic book like fairy tales to be able to make sense out of a real book.

Animal Farm?:confused:

Animal Farm?:confused:Why not i see no real harm, just ignore the political allegory.

Animal Farm isn't what im looking for.

Why not i see no real harm, just ignore the political allegory.

Yeah, AFAIK People's history is too political to have much religious significance and the page on your other book didn't mention religion at all, but I do thank you for that bit of info that I didn't know.

Yeah, maybe you just haven't read many books specifically on religion?

No, i haven't... it's on my BFD list.. i was never a holy roller to begin with.

Truth is i was blessed with an open mind and as a little child had nobody shoving their beliefs down my throat. A quick look around at all the greed, wanton apathy, and unbelievable suffering on this planet convinced me that, in all likelihood, there is not a god, and even if there was there would be no penalty for rejecting the indifference, silly bias, hypocrisy and the senseless moral depravity of most mainstream religions.

But maybe you caught that i wasn't the first to introduce the idea that you "can't lead a horse to water" or it's next to impossible to "magicially install commonsense into someones brain" especially when they live a life of willful ignorance, they are choking on their own materialism and insecurities, are comfortably dumb, they are unable to comprehend simple ideas, straightforward concepts, and are probably allergic to "schoolbook" learning.

I thought that many of the people contributing information to this thread claimed to be respectful of others beliefs.

But the nature of this thread seems to contradict that.

Well just wallow in your peculiar brand of god-driven apathy, religious bigotry, cherished ignorance and moral turpitude, see if i care.

Well just wallow in your peculiar brand of god-driven apathy, religious bigotry, cherished ignorance and moral turpitude, see if i care.

I see that you do care...or at least that what the nature of this thread implies.

Again a bigotted, superficial and redundant response.

Let me state it another way...

It's not MY fault if you life doesn't make any sense or have any meaning. That you childishly criticize others for merely stating their chosen beliefs is rather absurd, rather comical, and make no mistake about it retarded.

It's that "greed comes first" and superficial "beliefs and morality comes in a distant second" thing that blindly worshipping your pathetic Xtian god produces. And makes you look like a selfish simpleton..

Now DON"T get me wrong... i'm NOT saying that you are selfish... or that YOU are a simpleton... heaven forbid..i'm just saying THAT it LOOKS like you are.

i do hope you understand.

It's not MY fault if you life doesn't make any sense or have any meaning.

I believe I understand it well enough.

That you childishly criticize others for merely stating their chosen beliefs is rather absurd, rather comical, and make no mistake about it retarded.

I don't do that. Well, maybe I do. But it happens to me in nearly every thread I mention my beliefs, and is exactly what anyone trying to convince another to end their beliefs is doing.

It's not very nice.

...your pathetic Xtian god produces...

Hahaha, oh, you're a troll.

Okay.

Hahaha, oh, you're a god.Obbe your post does not make any sense. Not to mention it is way off topic, the only troll here is yourself take a good look in the mirror. Maybe philosophy isn't your cup of tea my friend. ;)

Obbe your post does not make any sense.

M'kay.

It's not very nice.No, you're hiding behind flawed notions of right and wrong, pretending and hoping that your objective and worthless interpretation(s) is the right one, because you don't get it, because you don't want to get it, because you're very insecure, that is why it is necessary for you to hide behind your religion, not to mention that it is very possible that you don't have the critical thinking skills necessary to escape even your own stupidity and bias. You know that moral dullness, latent hypocrisy, double standards and moral turpitude that i have referred to again and again, but is usually ignored. That means that problem is on your end, stop acting like a dullminded and easily dumbfounded "religious" nutcase. Foolish, i say.

Welcome to fairytale land, where god is everything and anything and where god is nothing and he is invisible too! Yeesh.

Foolish, i say.

M'kay.

And, on topic, I don't think you should be trying to convince someone their beliefs are wrong.

Obbe is/are God. Do not speak to him/her/it like that.

Obbe is/are God. Do not speak to him/her/it like that.

I remember having an argument with Obbe back before he began to troll en masse; I wondered what would happen to that poor soul, and here he is, trolling the society forums. *shudders*

http://www.sanctus1.co.uk/blog/uploaded_images/science_vs_faith-721964.png

The question you have to ask yourself is why do you want someone else to stop believing. It's a personal choice, just like people shouldn't try to convert you, you shouldn't try to convert them.

This is often said, but why should it be so? Why does religion get a free pass? There are plenty of people here who were once believers, and I suspect they're glad of the people who challenged their beliefs and helped them get to where they are now. To quote Schopenhauer, to free a man from error is to give, not to take.

And, on topic, I don't think you should be trying to convince someone their beliefs are wrong.
Isn't that what you do in this forum? I have a feeling you're going to declare that you are merely stating your beliefs, but you do more than that. I've seen you argue with others over why the only thing anyone can know for sure is that "they are" when they believe they know more. That's no different than a Christian arguing that the Bible is correct or an atheist arguing that there is no good reason to believe in deities.


And what's wrong with atheists trying to get people to challenge their beliefs? Is this really a bad thing? Especially when so many atheists are convinced religion causes so much bad in the world and we'd all be better off without irrational beliefs?


If this were a roofing forum and someone believed that finishing nails were best to hold down tiles, is it wrong to give them evidence that nails with bigger heads are preferable? This is a forum specifically for arguing over gods and no one is forced to come here. Just as the OP's friends don't have to accept his book recommendations.

Obbe is/are God. Do not speak to him/her/it like that.As you wish.

Isn't that what you do in this forum?

I already admitted that above.

I still don't think it's very nice.

That's no different than a Christian arguing that the Bible is correct or an atheist arguing that there is no good reason to believe in deities.

Yeah, its not. It's just as terrible.

And what's wrong with atheists trying to get people to challenge their beliefs? Is this really a bad thing? Especially when so many atheists are convinced religion causes so much bad in the world and we'd all be better off without irrational beliefs?

Whats wrong with a Christian trying to get people to challenge their beliefs? Is that really a bad thing? Especially when so many Christians are convinced atheism/<insert religion here> causes so much harm in the world, and that we'd all be better off as Christians?

This is a forum specifically for arguing over gods and no one is forced to come here.

So? This is my opinion. Just as you don't have to except a Christians beliefs, and they do not have to accept yours, you don't have to accept this opinion either.

I already admitted that above.

I still don't think it's very nice.
So you admit that you do it and then post again that someone else shouldn't do it? You're on a roll with being hypocritical lately, aren't you?

Can we all count on you cutting it out now, since you've come to the conclusion that one shouldn't be trying to convince someone their beliefs are wrong?



Yeah, its not. It's just as terrible.
It's not terrible and I explained why.



Whats wrong with a Christian trying to get people to challenge their beliefs?
Nothing. That's what this forum is for and why I participate. Were you expecting me to answer that there is?



So? This is my opinion. Just as you don't have to except a Christians beliefs, and they do not have to accept yours, you don't have to accept this opinion either.
Why are you bothering to tell me I don't have to accept your beliefs? Do you think I'm not aware of that?

Can we all count on you cutting it out now?

Not entirely.

It's not terrible and I explained why.

Apparently, I disagree.

Were you expecting me to answer that there is?

Partially, because of the nature of this thread, and this argument we're having because of it.

Do you think I'm not aware of that?

Just in case, as the nature of this argument would seem to contradict that you are.

Do you think I'm aware of what you are aware of?

Why would you ever want to do that?

You are obviously being controlled by satan!

Not entirely.



Apparently, I disagree.
So you find it necessary to let others know that it's terrible to do something and also tell them they shouldn't do it anymore, yet you don't plan on stopping doing that same thing? Terrific. Telling others they shouldn't do something that you continue to do, and admit to, isn't very convincing.




Partially, because of the nature of this thread, and this argument we're having because of it.
As usual, you fail at making any sense.

Nothing about the nature of this thread or this argument should lead you to believe that I believe Christians shouldn't try to get people to challenge their beliefs.




Just in case, as the nature of this argument would seem to contradict that you are.
I don't know if you're a troll or just really stupid.

What the fuck about the nature of this thread contradicts that I'm aware that I don't have to accept your beliefs?

The God Delusion Richard Dawkins

That. But I'm still a Christian. Having faith (or being stubborn, depends on your view I guess) is something people decide to never give up sometimes.