I used to work at a bookstore, and i always hated looking at books like "90 minutes in heaven" and "i had surgery and saw jesus while brain dead" type things.


http://science.howstuffworks.com/science-life-after-death.htm

I have a coworker who used to be a drug user, so when he was 18 or something, he killed himself. They rescusitated him and he claims he saw things so now hes a born again christian (though the fact that he's very very gay and drinks a lot is .... kind of ironic).

Also, when you're dying, you have a mass amount of chemicals being shot into your brain (BLTC talked about it once). If you DON"T see weird shit when you're dying... then you're probably already dead or a pussy copmlaining about a papercut.

Not much bad comes out of it

Not much bad comes out of it


i consider delusions to be "bad."

what happens in an near death experience could be what really happens after death, but in the same way as if god parted the clouds and said 'christianity is the way'.

i wouldn't know if what i was seeing was real or not, so i couldn't say what would really happen after i died.

DMT

That is all.

It's just the neurons in your brain firing off as you die. There's nothing there but hallucinations.

DMT

That is all.

this.

DMT

That is all.

The whole DMT death thing is just speculation, there is no proof what-so-ever that DMT is released when you die.

I think that the whole NDE thing is just your brain shutting down. People assume these things happened while they were clinically dead, and give no thought to the idea of them happening while right before they were "dead". If these NDE's happend in the last 30 seconds of brain activity, the person would by defualt assume they happened over the whole course of their "death". Just like when you sleep you are not aware of anything when you are not dreaming.

Also note that since your brains "time sensor" is not functioning its impossible to gauge time. I have had dreams that seemed to last hours during the 10 minutes I was asleep in class.

The whole DMT death thing is just speculation, there is no proof what-so-ever that DMT is released when you die.

You're really splitting hairs here. It IS found in the human brain. The experiences people have while on the drug are EXTREMELY similar to near death experiences. The people behind this theory aren't some random hippies either, Rick Strassman is an M.D. and has done exhaustive studies on the drug. While I am not aware of any studies actually detecting dmt being released at death (most scientists would probably see such studies as unethical), to deny that there is somewhat of a strong correlation would be idiotic.

If it was just "your brain shutting down" you probably wouldn't experience anything at all, seeing as you experience everything with the use of your brain. Everything else you said goes right along with the DMT theory.

to deny that there is somewhat of a strong correlation would be idiotic.


I never denied it, I just hate when people push around speculation like its fact.

It seemed pretty fucking obvious to middle age people that the sun revolved around the earth, I mean all the evidence they had pointed to it.

Its a guess, so treat it like so. Yes, there is DMT in your body, thats a fact, whether or not it's behind NDE's is still up for debate. There are a host of other chemicals too that could also be responsible.

And splitting hairs? I think not.

Also the "trip reports" from NDE persons are similar yet very different from trip reports from DMT users.

Also the "trip reports" from NDE persons are similar yet very different from trip reports from DMT users.

The frame of mind of a user effects the type of trip the have. Obviously someone's that's dying is going to have a different frame of mind than someone that's taking it with a stable frame of mind in a stable environment and that will cause differences.

I never denied it, I just hate when people push around speculation like its fact.

I hear you. I hate when people's speculation is pushed as fact.......like say near death experience, meeting god and or crossing over and coming back. The supernaturalist explanations for near death experience are terrible explanations.

There is SOME evidence for DMT being the cause of near death dreamscapes or trips. It is not as concrete as say evidence for evolution but I would hope you have some evidence for another explanation of near death experience. If you cannot propose a more logical explanation then you are wasting your time.

I hear you. I hate when people's speculation is pushed as fact.......like say near death experience, meeting god and or crossing over and coming back. The supernaturalist explanations for near death experience are terrible explanations.

There is SOME evidence for DMT being the cause of near death dreamscapes or trips. It is not as concrete as say evidence for evolution but I would hope you have some evidence for another explanation of near death experience. If you cannot propose a more logical explanation then you are wasting your time.

So... We are supposed to accept the most obvious answer as true, without full evidnece to back it up, and then just to stop searching for the truth?

Is SOME evidence enough? Does not the scientific method demand a LOT of evidence?

Why should we be searching for the evidence of an explanation, instead of explaining what we see from the evidence we have?

So... We are supposed to accept the most obvious answer as true, without full evidnece to back it up, and then just to stop searching for the truth?

Not at all. Always search for the truth. There are still people out there trying to disprove the theory of relativity. Until someone comes up with something that is supported by more evidence that the theory of relativity we must accept relativity to be true. Same goes for near death experience.

Is SOME evidence enough? Does not the scientific method demand a LOT of evidence?

It does demand a LOT of evidence. How do you feel about near death experience? Do you have more proof that it is God and not DMT? NO YOU DON'T. So why would you believe something with the LEAST amount of evidence?

Why should we be searching for the evidence of an explanation, instead of explaining what we see from the evidence we have?

B/C if someone comes up with an explanation "lightning comes from thor's hammer" we should DEMAND that he has some evidence to back it up. Otherwise you have human beings who STOP searching for the real explanation for a thousand years or better b/c it is explained and we did not search or demand evidence of that explanation.

Your second question:

Okay explain what you see in near death experience from the evidence we have. Go ahead. Tell me that when a Buddhist has one he sees Jesus. Tell me when someone who does not believes in winged men called angels sees one in his near death experience. The mind will see what it is programmed, and told it's whole life it will see, when the brain is flooded WITH HALLUCINOGENIC CHEMICALS AT THE TIME OF DEATH.

The DMT theory can explain near death experience in ALL CULTURES AND RELIGIONS more so than zombie christ theory can. PERIOD. Better evidence. Not to mention the FACT that DMT is a physical and observable chemical in the brain along with a myriad of other chemicals. God, Heaven, Zombie Christ.....all intangible, untestable.

Why should we be searching for the evidence of an explanation, instead of explaining what we see from the evidence we have?

Current evidence is ultimately inconclusive concerning many fundamental aspects of our universe. Theorizing is how we use this evidence to direct us on where to look for more evidence.

hmm, im interested in any testimonials of people with near death experiences for those who
a) are a devoted follower of a religion other than christianity
b) a blind person
c) a deaf person
d) a person who doesnt know what christianity is.
i think only if we have those can people definitively reject the presence of supernatural forces at work in making NDE's

unlike many other things, this is easier to disprove as there is acutal scientific evidence to refute it, rather than just accusing the other side of lack of evidence