I remember a recent thread that an "atheist" posted about if we have souls, what is the purpose for living in the physical. Asking that, is more saying "you dont know" wich makes you agnostic (this is why true atheism is for people who havn't actually considered the concept.) Nobody knows, and wont know until you die what is the truth. Thinking about it, I definately believe we were created by something, but just that, isn't proof I have a soul, and thats what bothers me alot.

But a theory I came up with, that doesn't seem to have any contradictions, is this. As I've said before, if there is a god, and he is perfect, he could only create something that was perfect. So your instincts that most religion tell you to deny, is the only thing that would be going against god. If I didn't believe in god, I wouldn't care about the world in the future, because I nor anyone I care about would be here. So if we dont have souls, there wouldn't be a reason for us to do anything, or not do anything. If I'm not going to be alive, I dont give a damn about future generations, If I'm not going to be alive, I wont be careing about much of anything. What I'm saying, is if there wern't a god, I wouldn't even feel the need to follow my instincts, because it doesn't make sense to worry about a future you wont be around to see.

Anyway, as far as why we have souls. We're here for a purpose, if there is a god, that is obvious. "god" has a plan and a reason why he would have created the physical universe, and whoever accomplishes whatever he put us here for, will probably be rewarded somehow. A soul, is supposed to be immortal. How can two souls fight something out? It's like dragon ball z, you'd make up the rules as you went along. People can die, and we're all on an even playing field for a fight. Past all the man written "holy books" what proof do we have, as to what we're supposed to be doing? Surely if god created us, he would know that unless retarded, no human can have true faith in another mans word, not only another mans word, but another mans word written over a thousand years before his time. In my opinion, he gave us proof he exists with existence. It cant exist without something being eternal. So what proof do we have as far as what to do? As I've said before, nature. What do animals do? What are they concerned with? Survival. Survival first for themselves, and second for their own kind. Animals know alot of things we dont, and have senses that we either never had, or seem to have lost (i'll go with that). Our instincts are what we were given (this is gods word.) it's programmed into your brain.

So what for? Thats a tough one. I believe some ancient people knew what the truth was. We hear of some of them having "magic" powers (us having some of the senses animals have could be considered "magic"). I believe god put us here, and obviously under the laws of nature, and only the strong will survive. But if we have souls, who cares who survives? I dont believe everyone lives forever. I believe the race of people who can survive the longest will be the only ones who are rewarded. This is what god's plan was. If you think about it, Jews, are clearly winning at this game we have going on. I believe a few jews alive today actually know "the truth". Not that I'm saying believe in their BS religion, but I'm saying you might try following the rules to their religion. What does it say? Their whole religion is about being parasites, destroying every other race, and sticking together (that is pure instinct, it's what all the animals do, and thats what I'm saying everyone is meant to do.) They're committing genocide through their television networks, and before they had the media, look at religion!!!!!!! Christianity!!!!!! Telling everyone else to do the opposite of what they believe, and all the while, look upon them as "the chosen people". "Love your brother" "Turn the other cheek". But if the masterminds (who dont believe in the jewish religion, just like farakahn doesn't believe the stuff he says) believe that they dont live on, why would they be doing it? If the jewish masterminds dont believe in god, why would they be trying so desprately to destroy other races? Because they know something I dont, or part of it atleast. This is why I believe in god. Because the people who run our country (really run it) obviously believe that it is important to prepare for a future (that without a soul shouldn't matter to them). If I didn't believe I had a soul, I wouldn't care about my own kind, it just wouldn't matter to me, not the ones who havn't been born yet.

And there are still a couple flaws. If god created us, what would be the purpose of this game? He should know who would win already. But then again, nobody can make up any rules as to what god is. I'm not saying I know. Aliens could have created us, and put us here for the same purpose, wich would make more sense, because aliens wouldn't be "all knowing" and that would be reason to conduct an expirement in the first place. It's really been proven that we create energy as we live, in more ways than one. The only question, is wether any of it is concious. But god existing was never the point for me. I've pretty much always believed in a god, but unless I have a soul, and could live on, there would be no reason for me to do anything, or even to care that a god existed. If id dont have a soul, I couldn't really care less about the existence of god. It wouldn't make any difference to me really. Without a soul there is no purpose for living.

But a theory I came up with, that doesn't seem to have any contradictions, is this. As I've said before, if there is a god, and he is perfect, he could only create something that was perfect.


If god is perfect, then he can/should be able to create anything, from perfection to imperfection, you are just assuming it's created 'perfection' which is hardly any god that is related to this universe.


If I didn't believe in god, I wouldn't care about the world in the future, because I nor anyone I care about would be here.


What? I wouldn't care about the world in the future, because I won't be here? I won't be on this world regardless of whether or not I have a soul. This "soul" thing people speak of, as I've heard of it, is only good for transporting off to some other realm of gobly-gooks and godstuff where we magically get to talk to our dog Sparky and Aunt Jemimah.
Furthermore, there are plenty of ethical reasons to care about future generations regardless of whether or not we will still exist.



What I'm saying, is if there wern't a god, I wouldn't even feel the need to follow my instincts, because it doesn't make sense to worry about a future you wont be around to see.


Only if you have not thought about the morality of not caring. Regardless, this ethic is not bound to any need for a god or lack thereof.



Anyway, as far as why we have souls. We're here for a purpose, if there is a god, that is obvious. "god" has a plan and a reason why he would have created the physical universe, and whoever accomplishes whatever he put us here for, will probably be rewarded somehow. A soul, is supposed to be immortal.

This is NOT obvious. God could be a deist god, for instance. What would god, an infinite being, possibly get out of creating purpose for others? It is already an infinite being, it can gain nothing from anything.



So what proof do we have as far as what to do? As I've said before, nature. What do animals do? What are they concerned with? Survival. Survival first for themselves, and second for their own kind. Animals know alot of things we dont, and have senses that we either never had, or seem to have lost (i'll go with that). Our instincts are what we were given (this is gods word.) it's programmed into your brain.

First, you make the naturalistic fallacy. Then, on top of that you throw on the superfluous being of god. By Occam's razor, I demand the throwing out of the god and simply say nature exists and instincts tell us what to do etc, etc if you still want to follow on your path of naturalistic fallacy-making.



It's really been proven that we create energy as we live, in more ways than one.
Really?!? I'm pretty sure this contradicts one of the laws of thermodynamics :/


The only question, is wether any of it is concious. But god existing was never the point for me. I've pretty much always believed in a god, but unless I have a soul, and could live on, there would be no reason for me to do anything, or even to care that a god existed. If id dont have a soul, I couldn't really care less about the existence of god. It wouldn't make any difference to me really. Without a soul there is no purpose for living.

So your only purpose for living is to live in the future? Seems like a self-defeating purpose to me. If your only goal is to get through 'this life' to live in some other one, I think you are missing the beauty of life and so this is the problem of the idea of afterlife. People live half-assed lives because they expect to be rewarded with another. It seems like a silly game to play, when you know you are guaranteed in having this one life to live and can assuredly live it with purpose and meaning, albeit your own and to no great avail, but who cares.

I think ACE should be banned from the society forums. His intelligence is merely that of your average Bad Ideas poster.
Just go look at some threads in that forum, I often check it out just to see how fucking stupid people really are. And ACE is definitely a dumb shit.

Ok, carry on now.

KikoSanchez why would you even bother debating this? Ace is obviously just another babbling idiot with all kinds of "proof" that shows a god/ the super natural exist. After you take out all of the flawed logic and false information, you're just left with "It exists because I believe it exists."

I guess you just have more patience than me to fight with these types. I gave up on this kind of debate (on totse) long ago.

Stop making threads, man.

If God is perfect then wh the fuck do I have to wear glasses to see??? THINK ABOUT THAT IDIOT.

KikoSanchez why would you even bother debating this? Ace is obviously just another babbling idiot with all kinds of "proof" that shows a god/ the super natural exist. After you take out all of the flawed logic and false information, you're just left with "It exists because I believe it exists."

I guess you just have more patience than me to fight with these types. I gave up on this kind of debate (on totse) long ago.

I almost did, but I was just so ergged by the idiocy and lack of substance.

You keep talking about "morality". Thats a creation of the media, and preachers (mister atheist). Our INSTINCTS wich are hardwired to our brains, are simply "Survive". And if we didn't live the soft lives that many of us do, we couldn't survive, and be "moral" at the same time. Being kind, to people the same as you, yes, thats true. Instinct is first the suvival of yourself, and second of your own kind. Why do you need glasses to see? Again, your assuming I'm promoting the idea of a christian god. I'm not. The universe, is machine, (and if there is a god) has some sort of divine purpose that it will achieve. If you were blind, in the wild, you would probably die, either that, or learn to get by (perfection). Nature would either be without you (the weak) or you would become strong. Sure there is pain in the world (that only contradicts a typical god), but mainly pain is for the weak, or "moral" people. Not for people who do what their instincts tell them to. There is absolutely no flawed logic behind any of that. The only thing, is there is still a contradiction about how either this god created us (and should know everyone, therefor not need to test them), Or whatever created us, isn't a god at all, or supernatural, but an alien or something. Even then though, say our universe is in a drawer, in some aliens office, the same rule would apply to whatever he lived in (some supernatural being, or power, ultimately has to be behind existence, it seems to me.)

But yeah, I am starting to see that atheism, is like a religion, and dont want to classify myself as that. Your "morals" who the hell gave you those? Unless the skies open up, and whoever "god" is, comes out, and gives me a set of rules, all I have to assume, is the instincts in my brain, are what this god wants me to follow. And I dont need the concept of god to do that, because that is simply what will make my life most comforatable. Not doing without, because of some made up rules I gave myself "morals" :rolleyes:

And I never offered proof you fucking idiot. The fucking title has "theory" in it. The only theory, that makes a grain of fucking sense to me, and even that has contradictions to it. All the fuck men do is speculate. You dont know shit, just like nobody else does. Speculate is the best you can do. What proof do you have that we're not in a matrix? We're just getting to Mars you idiot, and you think you know some kind of truth to existence.

Calm down my friend.

I am not purporting any overall theory on morality, though I do swing to a Utilitarian beat, but there are perfectly good ethical reasons to care for future generations. It is similar to reasons for caring about people you will never meet. It is built on altruism and understanding that others are like you. If you wouldn't fuck over a world that you would later exist in, you should similarly not fuck over a world with people that will suffer just as you would. That, paraphrased, is the sort of moral proposition I am speaking of. To rebuttal the proposition, you could state - 1) I would not even give a damn about a world that I would exist in or 2) Other people do not suffer for the same reasons and in the same manner as I do (future generations will have different needs or be inherently different). I would disagree with neither proposition, so I see the logic in caring for a world for these future generations. Thus, there is some non-theological reason to care and it has nothing to do with having a soul.

there are no souls
there is no purpose to life
there is no god
/nihilism