"God can't be real because you make babies by having sex, you don't see him coming down and making them himself do ya?".

I just looked at him in awe of his stupidity. I don't believe in God myself but this idiot gives Atheism a bad name.

I just looked at him in awe of his stupidity.

I read this post in awe that you didn't just thump your derelict friend on the forehead.

:p

You have about as good of a chance proving god is real as proving god is not real. It is a question unanswerable by us, we can just make speculation. That is like asking where the universe came from, aka pics or it didnt happen.

Your friend obviously doesn't know semen is filled with the holy spirit that rushes into the womb and creates a new spirit, thus "impregnating" the lady, this simply could not be done without the holy spirit's holy work. Playing with the idea of an invisible, non-falsifiable entity sure is fun :)

You have about as good of a chance proving god is real as proving god is not real. It is a question unanswerable by us, we can just make speculation. That is like asking where the universe came from, aka pics or it didnt happen.

Agreed. but lulz stupidity is everywhere. I like those who try to make themselves less ignorant through discussion and learning.

Not to say I have no compassion for those who don't.

You're all stupider than you think.

You're all stupider than you think.

What if I think I'm almost infinitely ignorant/stupid and extremely limited by my humanity alone?

What if I think I'm almost infinitely ignorant/stupid and extremely limited by my humanity alone?

Apparently, then you're even stupider than that.

God can't be disproved in the same way Kraldor, the Mighty Warrior of the Apocalypse, can't be disproved.

I see you all have some doubts about Kraldor. Well. I'll explain.

Kraldor is a nordic warrior. He lives in my closet and is invisible, so nobody has ever seen him. He feeds off of thoughts, and every night to keep him alive I think about him and to him. He created everything around us, but you just can't see him.

You can't disprove Kraldor. Try it, I'll shoot you down.

Come on, MG, I'm waiting...

When you're sleeping, God is humping your wife/girlfriend. That is how babies are made.

You can conclude pretty decisively that some gods don't exist, I think. When the holy book of said god disagrees with itself and the properties assigned to such a god are illogical (Epicurus's proof comes to mind), well, then you have enough evidence to prove that his existence is impossible.

And then there are those gods that we would be better off if they didn't exist. Gods that kill homosexuals and are misogynistic (among other things) can hardly be considered benevolent and/or loving.

Even though none of these have been proven to exist, we can still conclude that some of them cannot possibly exist--winning the argument before it starts, so to speak.

I read this post in awe that you didn't just shoot your derelict friend on the forehead.

:p

Fixed

I don't believe in God myself but this idiot gives Atheism a bad name.

I have yet to see an atheist which has given atheism a good name. :p

I have yet to see an atheist which has given atheism a good name. :p

Nobody cares what you think.

Stop with your damn arguing and make fun of my ex-friend! :mad:

Stop with your damn arguing and make fun of my ex-friend! :mad:

Your friend's a cunt sniffer who needs to be castrated...

I have yet to see an atheist which has given atheism a good name. :p

Agnosticism ftw.

You're all stupider than you think.

Nuff said.

You have about as good of a chance proving god is real as proving god is not real. It is a question unanswerable by us, we can just make speculation. That is like asking where the universe came from, aka pics or it didnt happen.

But there is scientific proof that He exists. There may be evidence that contradicts His existence, but it is too complicated to understand, because it just doesn't make sense.

For example, most atheists will tell you that "there was never a beginning to our existence, this world existed for all eternity". That can't be true, because the galaxies are moving farther and farther apart every day (that can be proven because astronomers have found red shift in the spectra of the galaxies). That means that yesterday, the galaxies were closer together, and a week ago they were EVEN CLOSER together. What happens if you keep going backwards and the galaxies keep getting closer and closer together? They meet at one point. That means that there was a beginning to our existence at one point in time.

If atheists want to believe that science contradicts Christianity, let them. I'll play in their ball park. You want to talk about science? Let's talk about science, shall we?

Some atheists believe that all the matter in the universe "just appeared". It just appeared? Are you implying that all the matter in this universe just appeared out of nothing? That's scientifically impossible. That theory completely violates one of the most basic and well known scientific laws: matter cannot be created nor destroyed.

I'm not finished, I can still scientifically prove you wrong. Let us not forget the sun, stars, and the solar system. Every second the sun converts 564 million tons of hydrogen into helium (talk about fuel consumption!). If you drive your car from now on without ever filling it back up with gas, your fuel tank will bottom out and your engine will die. The same concept applies to the sun. Even though science suggests that the universe existed for billions of years, the sun has only burned up 2% of its hydrogen supply. That means, that if we existed for all eternity, the sun would have ran out of fuel and burnt out long ago. In a condensed version, if an atheist was correct, the world would have already ended.

So then what created God?

So then what created God?

If God is a being that is unlimited in time, and if He has access to every piece of time as if it were now, the question of who created God is an invalid question. The problem is like asking a student to draw a four-sided triangle. The terminology is self-contradictory.

When asked “Who or what created God?” we are making the assumption that God was created. If God exists outside of time and space, and if He is the Creator of time and space, He obviously was not created! God began the beginning! This is why He says, “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last” (Revelation 22:13).

So then why does it necessarily have to be a "God" that created the universe?

Maybe there is some other 'magical' force that has always existed, with the sole purpose of instigating the big bang.

So then why does it necessarily have to be a "God" that created the universe?

Maybe there is some other 'magical' force that has always existed, with the sole purpose of instigating the big bang.

You, my friend, have a good point. However, there are some holes in your theory (so does the theory of evolution, but doesn't mean it is wrong).

All I have justified is that there is an intelligence beyond space and time that has created this universe, I didn't exactly prove that God did this, it could be The Force for all we know. Reading the Bible and comparing it to research would easily make this clearer for you.

There are lots of problems with the big bang theory because it is assuming that all the matter in the universe existed for all eternity (scientifically impossible), and then something triggered an explosion, which rearranged all of the matter to create this innovative and intelligent world we now know. We all know that science, mathematics, and technology is a discovery rather than a 'human invention'. There are lots of parts to the big bang theory that I just plainly don't understand, because it doesn't seem to correspond to other evidence that has been found. The only REAL evidence that supports Big Bang is the large amounts of iridium in earth rocks and the fact that the galaxies are moving farther apart in correlation to the universe expanding.

Well even if the big bang theory is wrong, then that only leaves plenty more possibilities. Maybe the universe has always existed. Maybe it never expanded from anywhere, but already existed exactly as it currently is.

That way, it doesn't need any sort of mystical force to ignite it, like the big bang theory.

A permanent universe doesn't make much less sense than a permanent creator of said universe.

But anyway, that would require that we ignore tons of scientific evidence that leads to an ever-expanding universe.

So basically, in a sense, you could say that I believe in some sort of inexplicable force that created the universe.

I mean, if it were explainable, then there would be no mystery, and all religion would be obsolete.

But I definitely do not believe in a "God" in the sense of a conscious creator, such as the higher beings associated with Judao-Christian and similar faiths.

Maybe the universe has always existed. Maybe it never expanded from anywhere, but already existed exactly as it currently is.

That's impossible. As I have stated before, the world would have already ended if this were true because the sun would have consumed its entire supply of hydrogen long before the human race even came into existence.


So basically, in a sense, you could say that I believe in some sort of inexplicable force that created the universe.

I mean, if it were explainable, then there would be no mystery, and all religion would be obsolete.

But I definitely do not believe in a "God" in the sense of a conscious creator, such as the higher beings associated with Judao-Christian and similar faiths.

But, that doesn't solve anything. If there were a logical explanation for how the universe began, you would still have religion. And yes, there would still be mystery because it is simply impossible for humans to know everything. There is only so far we can go.

Once we have supposedly learned how the world began it would still raise questions that have no definite answers, like "What was God's purpose for doing this?". We'd still be clueless as to how or when the world will end. This is why other religions would still exist, and it would still be statistically dominated by Christianity as it is now.

That's impossible. As I have stated before, the world would have already ended if this were true because the sun would have consumed its entire supply of hydrogen long before the human race even came into existence.

Honestly, I know very little when it comes to scientific stuff like this, so I'm just going to have to take your word for it.

But, that doesn't solve anything. If there were a logical explanation for how the universe began, you would still have religion. And yes, there would still be mystery because it is simply impossible for humans to know everything. There is only so far we can go.

Once we have supposedly learned how the world began it would still raise questions that have no definite answers, like "Why was God's purpose for doing this?". This is why other religions would still exist, and it would still be statistically dominated by Christianity as it is now.

You're right about that. I guess some people might still look to religion for the whole "why?" aspect.

Although, it just seems like it would make more sense to concentrate on philosophical questioning, rather than irrational concepts like virgin births and ancient scriptures and the like...

There are lots of problems with the big bang theory because it is assuming that all the matter in the universe existed for all eternity (scientifically impossible)

I have a problem with this. Can I have a source that says that it is scientifically imposssible for matter to exist for all eternity, at least in the form of energy?

I have a problem with this. Can I have a source that says that it is scientifically imposssible for matter to exist for all eternity, at least in the form of energy?

I guess I made a typo in my post. It isn't scientifically impossible, however the world would have ended long ago if this were the case. This is because if the universe existed as it does now for all eternity, it means that the planets would have been revolving around the sun as they do now. That also means that the sun was still burning hydrogen at the time. As we speak, 564 million tons of hydrogen in the sun is being converted to 560 million tons of helium, every second. Up until now, the sun has only used up 2% of its hydrogen supply. But if the world had existed for all ETERNITY, the sun would have already burned out billions of years before the human race even came into existence. So, if that was true, you and I, or any other living thing, would not be here right now.

A source? I didn't get this from the web, this is theoretical. But I did get some of my facts I posted earlier from http://www.doesgodexist.org. That should further explain things.

...

Gadzook's question was about the big bang. You said it is scientifically impossible for matter to have always existed, regardless of how recent the sun is. The atheist's big bang theory doesn't suggest that the sun has been burning hydrogen for eternity, it suggests that the hydrogen has been around for eternity in one form or another. The sun was formed when a dense cloud of matter collapsed into a ball of plasma.

An eternal intelligent being makes just as little (actually less, in my opinion) sense as an eternal universe. A god is the only escape from the infinite regression of cause and effect, but that's only because it's defined as not needing a cause.

Do you think atheists don't want to believe in God? How fucking awesome would that be? I could go to Heaven? Fuck yeah! Too bad there are more rational explanations. :( Reading the "pragmatic" proof in your link gives me the impression that the author believes atheists don't want there to be a god.

The only thing on the short page I read that got me thinking was the idea of "heat death". I'd say that's your strongest argument. By the way, I'm not an atheist, I'm an agnostic leaning toward atheism. I can certainly see why many people would believe in a creator. The thing I don't get is how you can believe in a god that listens to our prayers, is concerned with our decisions and actions and does everything in the Bible. I find this concept absurd and believe organized religion is a fucking cancer on human progress.

Nobody can 'prove' that God is or isn't real. Hypothetico/Deductive theory and the demarcation process (Karl Popper) which is one of the core tenets of science states that a theory can never be 'proved' but merely corroborated or disproved. For something like a scientific experiment this is easy - form a hypothesis, do an experiment, it either worked or it didn't. For the existence of a deity; however, it becomes harder - as it is entirely subjective. To someone who believes in God, the proof of his existence is clear in everyday life - in the flowers, the air, the trees - these would all corroborate the theory that there is a God, but to an atheist, these same things - explainable by science - would seem to falsify the same theory.

The main point is, anyone who claims they can 'prove' that God exists or that He doesn't exists is an idiot and is dabbling in pseudo science.