I was discussing this with my Pa recently, and it's something he loves to point out. He's an atheist by the way, however he's know his fair share of religious people through his life, which started with a fairly moderate baptist/CoE upbringing.

So God bashers and lovers.... what's your answer to this predicament? I must say I kind of agree with him to some degree - especially in that those who call themselves "Christians" most often conform to well.... non-conformist Christianity, to some degree. Catholics are Christians, but their religious belief is not "Christian" usually.... it is Catholic. I find it interesting that in a church as divided as that of Christianity, certain groups can proclaim themselves as the upholders of well.... the light n the truth, in essence.

Do Christians have anything in common in the modern age? Is there anything that actually marks someone out as a Christian? Does it not seem that the idea of being a "Christian" in terms of religious belief is directly a result of the Protestant break from the Catholic Church, or belonging to a grouping that is less "official" (not Catholic, Orthodox, etc).

Personally, I don't fully agree with the Pa. I do think there is some sort of "standard" to Christianity, and that it must be focused upon Jesus. Then again, it seems pretty evident that to be a "Christian" requires something different to a faith in the Trinity and the power of the Holy Spirit (can I get an hallelujah, brother?!). What about the gnostics, or the weird non-conformists.... the ones who don't even view Jesus as divine really, although do accept him as the "final prophet". In some ways they're more Jewish than Christian, and they certainly don't do the whole modern American non-conformist Evango-"Christian" thing over "having total faith in God's word as laid out in the holy Bible".

To me, it's always been interesting that such a divided religion as "Christianity" can choose to unite itself at times.... to open up those loving arms to the fellow believer every once in a while. Never mind the fact we used to burn each other alive..... evil heretics. Never mind the fact you're some indoctrinated moron who believes in the Pope, I mean honestly, who could believe the Almighty would go through a man?! ;) :rolleyes:

The religion which some would say is based fully upon forgiveness and tollerance (certain kind of Christian, innit) is however the one who's "members" can't even stick around in the same holy building. The disagreements are too many, and that which is held in common is too few -- shit, there's even those "naughty" Christians who don't even go to Church or pray.... read the Bible, or conform to well... anything really.

Come on guys, let's sort this out. We have enough "rawrrr fuck Christianity"/"rawrrr this is why CHRISTIANS are wrong"/"rawrrr i'm a CHRISTIAN and this is what WE believe" threads. Where's the common ground? Or have we moved to a stage where Christianity is no longer a "religion" as such, but held together solely by the self-identification-label of its faithful!

Tricky situation, innit? Share your views! :D

Short version: What makes someone Christian? Is there such a thing as the "Christian Church" any longer? What do Christians actually have in common?

While I'm not sure how much it matters...

I'd assume that all "christian churches" are essentially based on the teachings of jesus, with the different denominations existing because none of them agree on what exactly the teachings of jesus were...

^ This.

Jesus Christ of Nazareth is their common denominator. God is still the mover and the shaker, but JC is the dj that helps them get down to His rhythm.

shit, there's even those "naughty" Christians who don't even go to Church or pray.... read the Bible, or conform to well... anything really.

Our friends the moderates. :)
They somehow manage to keep it alive and well, playing the Forgiveness card often enough to keep their asses far, far from the proverbial furnace while still affording them a lifetime of what Jesus would consider debauchery and hedonism.

I think America has the patent on this particular brand of Christian.

Well lets look at what the bible says. In revelations, it says that only 144,000 will be saved and the rest will be judged. So apparently going to church means nothing to him, getting baptized means nothing to God, believing in God doesn't give you salvation, repenting sins doesn't seem much help. All the things that main stream Christians think equals salvation, doesn't appear to be true.

Essentially, a true Christian is a person who doesn't know whether God exists or not, whether Christ was really our saviour, but instead chooses to live a life of virtue, not for any reward of heaven or to avoid hell, but to simply be a good person. A true Christian follows what they believe in their heart to be virtuous, but knows that they are imperfect in judgement, and will make mistakes. A Christian also knows others are imperfect and will make mistakes, and forgives those mistakes, as we are all flawed and make them.

Basically, a real Christian has faith, but not in God, but that the path they have chosen in life was the right path, and that they made the world a better place with their actions. These people require no reward of heaven, or threat of hell, and if a reward awaits them, it's a bonus, not the motivation. Anyone with motivation to be a good person must be judged, cause they are just doing what they have to, to get that reward, and are not a pure soul.

Essentially, a Good Person is a person who doesn't know whether God exists or not, whether Christ was really our saviour, but instead chooses to live a life of virtue, not for any reward of heaven or to avoid hell, but to simply be a good person. A Good Person follows what they believe in their heart to be virtuous, but knows that they are imperfect in judgement, and will make mistakes. A Good Person also knows others are imperfect and will make mistakes, and forgives those mistakes, as we are all flawed and make them.

Basically, a Good Person has faith, but not in God, but that the path they have chosen in life was the right path, and that they made the world a better place with their actions. These people require no reward of heaven, or threat of hell, and if a reward awaits them, it's a bonus, not the motivation. Anyone with motivation to be a good person must be judged, cause they are just doing what they have to, to get that reward, and are not a pure soul.

I can relate to all of the above, but replaced "True Christian" with "Good Person" to show how we're not so very different at all.

Your post was excellent, and points out how people can find good inside them and outside their world without having to preach (or even believe) that God has a hand in our place in the Universe.

I just don't see why people of that specific caliber would insist on calling themselves Christians, which denotes 'Follower Of Christ', if within their lives they can achieve all these wonderful goals without having to have the push of either a role model such as Christ, or an invisible deity to prod them along. I can see how some stories of J.C.'s selfless acts would place him as a historical role model of love and forgiveness, but there again, so did Ghandi. So does the random, kind stranger who gives his last dollar to a needy person and exhibits more love than hostility.

IMO, if a label is needed at all to umbrella those who live their lives much like you outlined, it could be better worded to suit those who may have a historical appreciation for Christ's work, but doesn't necessarily include themselves as one of his "followers".

Atheists ................................................
Nevermind

AngryFemme- By true Christian I simply mean that you live according to Christs ideals. You share commonality of thinking with Christ, whether you state that you follow him or not is irrellivant to your allignment with his values. I don't follow Christ, I walk with him, whether he's the son of god or not just doesn't matter to me, much like you are alligned with me. I don't idolize Jesus, and I don't idolize myself for living as he did. I just couldn't imagine living any other way.

AngryFemme- By true Christian I simply mean that you live according to Christs ideals. You share commonality of thinking with Christ, whether you state that you follow him or not is irrellivant to your allignment with his values. I don't follow Christ, I walk with him, whether he's the son of god or not just doesn't matter to me, much like you are alligned with me. I don't idolize Jesus, and I don't idolize myself for living as he did. I just couldn't imagine living any other way.

Was Jesus white?

I am just asking b/c you said this (which by the way is a perfect representation of christian fundamentalism)....

I don't trust anyone who isn't white.

Ruh Roh Shaggy...

Ruh Roh Shaggy...

More like Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde! :eek:

I was discussing this with my Pa recently, and it's something he loves to point out. He's an atheist by the way, however he's know his fair share of religious people through his life, which started with a fairly moderate baptist/CoE upbringing.

So God bashers and lovers.... what's your answer to this predicament? I must say I kind of agree with him to some degree - especially in that those who call themselves "Christians" most often conform to well.... non-conformist Christianity, to some degree. Catholics are Christians, but their religious belief is not "Christian" usually.... it is Catholic. I find it interesting that in a church as divided as that of Christianity, certain groups can proclaim themselves as the upholders of well.... the light n the truth, in essence.

Do Christians have anything in common in the modern age? Is there anything that actually marks someone out as a Christian? Does it not seem that the idea of being a "Christian" in terms of religious belief is directly a result of the Protestant break from the Catholic Church, or belonging to a grouping that is less "official" (not Catholic, Orthodox, etc).

Personally, I don't fully agree with the Pa. I do think there is some sort of "standard" to Christianity, and that it must be focused upon Jesus. Then again, it seems pretty evident that to be a "Christian" requires something different to a faith in the Trinity and the power of the Holy Spirit (can I get an hallelujah, brother?!). What about the gnostics, or the weird non-conformists.... the ones who don't even view Jesus as divine really, although do accept him as the "final prophet". In some ways they're more Jewish than Christian, and they certainly don't do the whole modern American non-conformist Evango-"Christian" thing over "having total faith in God's word as laid out in the holy Bible".

To me, it's always been interesting that such a divided religion as "Christianity" can choose to unite itself at times.... to open up those loving arms to the fellow believer every once in a while. Never mind the fact we used to burn each other alive..... evil heretics. Never mind the fact you're some indoctrinated moron who believes in the Pope, I mean honestly, who could believe the Almighty would go through a man?! ;) :rolleyes:

The religion which some would say is based fully upon forgiveness and tollerance (certain kind of Christian, innit) is however the one who's "members" can't even stick around in the same holy building. The disagreements are too many, and that which is held in common is too few -- shit, there's even those "naughty" Christians who don't even go to Church or pray.... read the Bible, or conform to well... anything really.

Come on guys, let's sort this out. We have enough "rawrrr fuck Christianity"/"rawrrr this is why CHRISTIANS are wrong"/"rawrrr i'm a CHRISTIAN and this is what WE believe" threads. Where's the common ground? Or have we moved to a stage where Christianity is no longer a "religion" as such, but held together solely by the self-identification-label of its faithful!

Tricky situation, innit? Share your views! :D

Short version: What makes someone Christian? Is there such a thing as the "Christian Church" any longer? What do Christians actually have in common?

This actually isn't that trick, but could quite possibly be for a simpleton like yourself.

A Christian is one who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. Any person, under any denomination, who claims to follow to teachings of Jesus Christ is a Christian. From reading your post I assumed that I would have to assert this claim twice.

Now there is some dividing factors based upon personal viewpoints. Most Christians do not consider the Church of Latter Day Saints or the Jehovas Wittness to be Christians. There justification of this is that these groups of people do not believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ as recorded in the New Testament Bible. These two groups consider themselves christians because they still claim to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.

BTW just because some Christians do things differently from the majority of the other Christians does not make the fabric of Christianity disolve. I don't understand how you could fathom this.

^ This.

Jesus Christ of Nazareth is their common denominator. God is still the mover and the shaker, but JC is the dj that helps them get down to His rhythm.



Our friends the moderates. :)
They somehow manage to keep it alive and well, playing the Forgiveness card often enough to keep their asses far, far from the proverbial furnace while still affording them a lifetime of what Jesus would consider debauchery and hedonism.

I think America has the patent on this particular brand of Christian.

*agrees* You go girl! Not to say Australia isn't following just a little bit behind.

You've made no point as one can think anothers idea is good, but not trust them as a person.

A black guy invented the Air conditioner, should I trust him to hold my wallet? Your logic has no merit.
And Jesus looked like a Jew, and I'm sure he had a tanned skin like everyone living in the middle east. I trust people pretty much the same, I expect them to fuck me over for their personal gain. Don't have to be a nigger to act like one.