Ok, no matter how much atheist talk themselves in circles, existence doesn't make sense without some sort of God. Bottom line, either "magic" exists, and something came from nothing, eternity has to exist (meaning time doesn't), or Something created us. All seem equally crazy. So either eternity has to exist (you tell people their SUPERNATURAL god cant be infinite, yet believe our NATURAL WORLD is), or some magical hat, just instead of a bunny, pushed out time and space.

But, Whatever created us, should know what we're going to do. There is no reason for us to exist on earth, other than some sort of test. I believe if there were a test, it would be a test of survival between races (the jews in the lead now). But it makes no sense why an all-knowing god (atleast all-knowing of us) would have us on earth.

Then you could think aliens are testing us, but the question remains why did whatever create them, and so on.

So the concept of existence doesn't make sense without god, but there is no reason at all why a "god" would need to test us in the first place (wich is all the world would be if god was real and we had souls, a test of survival.)

"Ok, no matter how much atheist talk themselves in circles, existence doesn't make sense without some sort of God."

It's not the atheist's fault if your mind can't wrap itself around basic concepts like Occam's Razor.

"Bottom line, either "magic" exists, and something came from nothing, eternity has to exist (meaning time doesn't), or Something created us. All seem equally crazy."

There is no evidence that "magic" exists, time is merely a human measure of change. There is nothing to indicate that anyone "created" us. There is nothing crazy about not having been intentionally created by some imaginary being.

"But, Whatever created us, should know what we're going to do. There is no reason for us to exist on earth, other than some sort of test."

Of course, because we're just so important, that MUST be it, right? Wrong. We're a cosmological accident, nothing more.

"I believe if there were a test, it would be a test of survival between races (the jews in the lead now). But it makes no sense why an all-knowing god (atleast all-knowing of us) would have us on earth."

Yes of course, how could I forget about "THE JEWS." It's always "THE JEWS" isn't it, folks? :rolleyes:

"Then you could think aliens are testing us, but the question remains why did whatever create them, and so on."

So you're capable of asking yourself "If aliens exist, what created the aliens?" but you can't ask "If God exists, what created God?" This is where that nifty little Occam's Razor comes in again. It slices, it dices! It removes superfluous supernatural entities.

"So the concept of existence doesn't make sense without god,"

Seeing as how we exist, and there is nothing to indicate there are any gods, it seems to work pretty well. Again, simply adding "Goddidit" to the equation doesn't actually answer any questions about the universe; it only moves them back one step unnecessarily.

"but there is no reason at all why a "god" would need to test us in the first place (wich is all the world would be if god was real and we had souls, a test of survival.)"

Maybe it's not god that's doing it. Maybe it's... THE JEWS.

BUM BUM BUUUUUUUUM. :rolleyes:

I believe if there were a test, it would be a test of survival between races (the jews in the lead now).

This is where you lose all credibility.

Edit #1: On a side-note, why does it say your location is "JewSA?"

Edit #2: What the fuck is up with this thread: http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2074380

I'm calling troll

It's not the atheist's fault if your mind can't wrap itself around basic concepts like Occam's Razor.

and it's your own damn fault that you talk about Occam's Razor like it's a fucking law.

and it's your own damn fault that you talk about Occam's Razor like it's a fucking law.

QFT
*firespin

QFT
*firespin

Funny troll

Bottom line, either "magic" exists, and something came from nothing, eternity has to exist (meaning time doesn't), or Something created us. All seem equally crazy.



So the concept of existence doesn't make sense without god

Way to stay disinterested. If they're equally crazy in your opinion, why then turn and say option (c) must be correct? You might as well suspend your belief on the matter.

Way to stay disinterested. If they're equally crazy in your opinion, why then turn and say option (c) must be correct? You might as well suspend your belief on the matter.

This guy is so right, crazy and option (c) will lead you to no truth.

This is where you lose all credibility.

Edit #1: On a side-note, why does it say your location is "JewSA?"

Edit #2: What the fuck is up with this thread: http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2074380

I'm calling troll

He's not a troll, he's just anti-semetic, there are lots of them on totse.

He's also an idiot.

What doesn't make sense isn't Atheism, it's Antisemitism.

I'm as anti-semitic as I am anti-everyreligion. I'm also anti-Israel. The fact that Israel is a Jewish state is it's own problem and does not make me inherently anti-semitic.

I'm as anti-semitic as I am anti-everyreligion. I'm also anti-Israel. The fact that Israel is a Jewish state is it's own problem and does not make me inherently anti-semitic.

Antisemetism is full of shit, and so are (usually) antisemites.

Life no matter what doesn't make sense really. When you think of it, our entire perception of the world is based on concepts and absolutes. Concepts and absolutes are just ways in which we try to make sense. Life is all just a continuation. A manifestation of something else. Everything is manifested in the right conditions, and everying continues to manifest in other forms. I like to believe that the world is just a highly evolving system of energy which continues forever, changing into other forms. When we die, our energy goes into the ground, maybe if we have another form of energy called a soul or spirit then that goes somewhere else. But we never cease to exist, nothing ceases to exist. All we can know is that everything continues. The only real sensible belief is that everything continues.

But, Whatever created us, should know what we're going to do. There is no reason for us to exist on earth, other than some sort of test. .)


Dude, there is no reason for us to exist. Why is it that there HAS to be a reason to exist at all. It's up to you to give meaning to your life buddy.

So if you don't know why something is the way it is, you think people should make shit up and believe that?

Life no matter what doesn't make sense really. When you think of it, our entire perception of the world is based on concepts and absolutes. Concepts and absolutes are just ways in which we try to make sense. Life is all just a continuation. A manifestation of something else. Everything is manifested in the right conditions, and everying continues to manifest in other forms. I like to believe that the world is just a highly evolving system of energy which continues forever, changing into other forms. When we die, our energy goes into the ground, maybe if we have another form of energy called a soul or spirit then that goes somewhere else. But we never cease to exist, nothing ceases to exist. All we can know is that everything continues. The only real sensible belief is that everything continues.

hippie

What doesn't make sense isn't Atheism, it's Antisemitism.

I guess you aren't a palestinian, or a white man with a mind of his own, or anything like that. :)

Ok, no matter how much atheist talk themselves in circles, existence doesn't make sense without some sort of God. Bottom line, either "magic" exists, and something came from nothing, eternity has to exist (meaning time doesn't), or Something created us. All seem equally crazy. So either eternity has to exist (you tell people their SUPERNATURAL god cant be infinite, yet believe our NATURAL WORLD is), or some magical hat, just instead of a bunny, pushed out time and space.

But, Whatever created us, should know what we're going to do. There is no reason for us to exist on earth, other than some sort of test. I believe if there were a test, it would be a test of survival between races (the jews in the lead now). But it makes no sense why an all-knowing god (atleast all-knowing of us) would have us on earth.

Then you could think aliens are testing us, but the question remains why did whatever create them, and so on.

So the concept of existence doesn't make sense without god, but there is no reason at all why a "god" would need to test us in the first place (wich is all the world would be if god was real and we had souls, a test of survival.)

i do not believe in religion. i do believe in the soul, and the afterlife.

your arguement was just terrible though.

I believe theres an afterlife too. It involves rotting in the ground.

:rolleyes: kikosanchez/weedman are the only two who didn't break my posts down, and just say the same thing they do in every thread.

I'm not choosing an option c really. I'm saying if there is a God, looking at nature, and what my brain (wich god must have created) the earth would have to be a test of survival, not "willpower against "sin"" sin, ie (how god made you). But God doesn't make sense, kind of how weedman described it. There is no reason for whatever created us to "test" us for anything. And time and space, will NEVER be explained by science. Existence cant be explained without the concept of infinity (atheists whole argument about why god doesn't exist), but still if there is something, there is no reasoning behind it all.

hippie

Thats a real informative addition to the discussion, as well as very enlightening :rolleyes:

I agree with weedman though, everything can be broken down into energy, everything started out as energy anyway. The only way you or anything else exists in a physical state is because the universe cooled down over millions and billions or years, gravity pulled it together and formed matter.

Nothing ever ceases to exist, it mearly changes form.

On a side note (I know you'll think I'm crazy) but sometimes when I smoke enough weed, I believe that I am god, and everyone only exists because I'm alive (and for all I know, this could be true. I dont know that any of you are actually people, and vice versa). Anyway, this other guy comes to me, and He'll sometimes be cool, and sometimes he'll scare me, and show me bad things (and sometimes good). When he scares me, I've thought maybe he could be the devil, or I'm the devil =/ Anyway, he's like kind of a hippie, and tells me not to care about things I should care about (like jews) I've also had the feeling we were like brothers in a past life. And the wierd (dangerous) thing, is he's a person (who I dont know personally) and when he's scared me I've considered trying to kill him. But it's only when I'm high, it seems really stupid any other time.

you are crazy, seek therapy.

also, any real hippy would not tell you not to care about... anyone.

On a side note (I know you'll think I'm crazy) but sometimes when I smoke enough weed, I believe that I am god, and everyone only exists because I'm alive (and for all I know, this could be true. I dont know that any of you are actually people, and vice versa). Anyway, this other guy comes to me, and He'll sometimes be cool, and sometimes he'll scare me, and show me bad things (and sometimes good). When he scares me, I've thought maybe he could be the devil, or I'm the devil =/ Anyway, he's like kind of a hippie, and tells me not to care about things I should care about (like jews) I've also had the feeling we were like brothers in a past life. And the wierd (dangerous) thing, is he's a person (who I dont know personally) and when he's scared me I've considered trying to kill him. But it's only when I'm high, it seems really stupid any other time.This post on it's own pretty much destroy's any hope of anyone possible being able to claim you have an intellectual capacity of any sort.
If your going to base your basic mentality on what someone else tell's you to then you don't desrve the life that you have. I don't give a shit about Jew's, but I'm not prejudiced towards them, sort of how I feel about my mother. You should make up your own mind about who want to be, not what someone else say's because it sounds "right". Muslims think their religion sounds "right", does that make it so? Whate you have to understand (and you most obviously don't) is that everyone has their own agenda, what's morally right and wrong for them. These "values/beliefs" aren't those of everyone, but if it works for that person why would you want to disrupt that for them? Should I hate you because your a Christian?





Fear and Loathing
p.s. I'm not a Muslim or anything, just trying to prove a point.

The knower and the known are one. Simple people imagine that they should see God, as if He stood there and they here. This is not so. God and I, we are one in knowledge.
Eckhart



Who is God? I can think of no better answer than, He who is. Nothing is more appropriate to the eternity which God is. If you call God good, or great, or blessed, or wise, or anything else of this sort, it is included in these words, namely, He is.
St. Bernard




I agree with weedman

Nothing ever ceases to exist, it mearly changes form.

...William Blake said, Nothing is lost, nothing is lost, and really believe that.
We only move on...

...But Nothing is Lost
Shpongle

This post on it's own pretty much destroy's any hope of anyone possible being able to claim you have an intellectual capacity of any sort.
If your going to base your basic mentality on what someone else tell's you to then you don't desrve the life that you have. I don't give a shit about Jew's, but I'm not prejudiced towards them, sort of how I feel about my mother. You should make up your own mind about who want to be, not what someone else say's because it sounds "right". Muslims think their religion sounds "right", does that make it so? Whate you have to understand (and you most obviously don't) is that everyone has their own agenda, what's morally right and wrong for them. These "values/beliefs" aren't those of everyone, but if it works for that person why would you want to disrupt that for them? Should I hate you because your a Christian?





Fear and Loathing
p.s. I'm not a Muslim or anything, just trying to prove a point.

I've already said that I dont believe in right and wrong. Whatever jews do is only wrong to the people they do it to, not them. Everybody has reasons for what they do (and it's almost always the same thing) but they have to make sure they dont mind facing the consequences of what they do. I'm not going to bitch and whine with some shit like most of you talk about, or ask where someones "morals" are when they do something wrong to me. Thats just as pathetic as people who get on their knees, and beg for things from ghosts. I'll do what I can to change it. When a wolf eats it's only wrong for the rabbit. What would happen if rabbits could convince the wolves to all have "morals" lol. The wolves wouldn't be around much longer. Thats what I believe, about the world that I'm in. Thats why if it's a test, it's about survival.

"I've already said that I dont believe in right and wrong."

You're so edgy.

You're so edgy.

+1.

Sums up this whole online character of his pretty nicely.

How about this, the tiny little speck that is everything that ever existed, is existing and will exist and was also the thing that exploded causing "The Big Bang" is God!!!

1. It created our "Universe"

2. It is EVERYTHING

3. Because it is everything, it also knows everything

4. It is everywhere

Wow, I WIN!

How about this, the tiny little speck that is everything that ever existed, is existing and will exist and was also the thing that exploded causing "The Big Bang" is God!!!

1. It created our "Universe"

2. It is EVERYTHING

3. Because it is everything, it also knows everything

4. It is everywhere

Wow, I WIN!

I have no idea if you're being serious or sarcastic. If you're serious, you... you don't win. Not even close.

A little from column A, a little from column B.

Just pointing out that the universe is the equivalent to the christian god, pointing out how stupid it is to claim that an entity can be everywhere, know everything and be all powerful.

And I'm just sick of everyone assuming that if you believe in a god or many gods (i.e. you're theistic) that it's the xian god or xian 'devil' or something like that. We really need to wipe out the three main religions (christianity, islam and judaism) and get a new concept on religion and spiritual beliefs.

Oh and to OP, maybe that's 'cos they are BOTH wrong? Maybe a god/gods didn't "create" us, just helped us along a bit?

btw, I may or may not believe anything I just wrote...just throwing concepts out there and pointing out that it is stupid to think "OMG! Atheism and Theism both don't make sense..." and then trying to figure out which makes more sense and believing in that...take a step back and re-think shit, maybe there's a third possibility

Edgy to believe that if there is anything that what he MADE MY FUCKING BRAIN LIKE is right? And that if this is a test, it's a test of survival, and not "what a nice guy I am" lol. And if there is nothing, listening to my instincts will make my life comforatable, "morals" cause you to suffer. This atheist-morals bullshit is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. If there is anything good about being an atheist, it's cutting any strings you have, and living for the only life you're promised (something I strongly believe in). Because that is true. I am only PROMISED the life I have, wether anything is after this is just speculation. I believe, the rabbit has taught the wolf it's better to starve than eat it (jews being the rabbit). And that is what I see as "evil" (evil meaning something that goes against god).

If we had spirits, the only reason for us being on earth, is that we are mortal, and can be killed here (needed for a test of survival). But for silverwolf, the question still has to be answered, why would whatever created us need to test us for anything? And it isn't testing us, then what could possibly be the purpose for us being here?

Edgy to believe that if there is anything that what he MADE MY FUCKING BRAIN LIKE is right? And that if this is a test, it's a test of survival, and not "what a nice guy I am" lol. And if there is nothing, listening to my instincts will make my life comforatable, "morals" cause you to suffer."

Most of us grow out of this mindset before we turn 16. "morals cause you to suffer." Yeah, ok. If you're a naturally occurring dickbag then they probably get in the way, that's about it. Are you a naturally occurring dickbag?

If you seriously believe any of this, then I dare your stupid, bitch ass to go ONE DAY living like an amoral twat. See how far you get.

"This atheist-morals bullshit is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. If there is anything good about being an atheist, it's cutting any strings you have, and living for the only life you're promised (something I strongly believe in). Because that is true."

Which doesn't automatically entail throwing morality of any kind out the window. Morals are a set of generally agreed upon guidelines that prevent you from getting fucked over by that other guy who wants your land; Gods have nothing to do with any of that, despite what the various religions say. Most Atheists understand that being moral is central to survival, interestingly enough most religious folks get this too, even though theirs are generally more fucked up.

Again, most of us grow out of this "LAWL FUCK MORALITY, I AM FOR THE WIN!!!11" mentality before we leave High School.

"I am only PROMISED the life I have, wether anything is after this is just speculation. I believe, the rabbit has taught the wolf it's better to starve than eat it (jews being the rabbit). And that is what I see as "evil" (evil meaning something that goes against god)."

Again with "THE JEWS." You're a fucking moron, kid. Go read some Ann Rynd, it sounds like you'd love her brand of inane bullshit.

But wait... she was A JEW!! Better not, then.

"If we had spirits, the only reason for us being on earth, is that we are mortal, and can be killed here (needed for a test of survival). But for silverwolf, the question still has to be answered, why would whatever created us need to test us for anything? And it isn't testing us, then what could possibly be the purpose for us being here?

There is no point to any of that since we don't have "spirits" and there is no creature testing us.

Most of us grow out of this mindset before we turn 16. "morals cause you to suffer." Yeah, ok. If you're a naturally occurring dickbag then they probably get in the way, that's about it. Are you a naturally occurring dickbag?

If you seriously believe any of this, then I dare your stupid, bitch ass to go ONE DAY living like an amoral twat. See how far you get.

As much as I usually agree with your posts, believing that good and evil are not real is not simply a "high school" concept. To paraphrase Nietzsche, there is only what is advantageous and what is not. What the OP is actually talking about is a sort of Master / Slave morality, although he has bastardized it with his antisemitism, as Hitler did with Nietzsche's writings.

The OP is a little Hitler.

Most of us grow out of this mindset before we turn 16. "morals cause you to suffer." Yeah, ok. If you're a naturally occurring dickbag then they probably get in the way, that's about it. Are you a naturally occurring dickbag?

If you seriously believe any of this, then I dare your stupid, bitch ass to go ONE DAY living like an amoral twat. See how far you get.



Which doesn't automatically entail throwing morality of any kind out the window. Morals are a set of generally agreed upon guidelines that prevent you from getting fucked over by that other guy who wants your land; Gods have nothing to do with any of that, despite what the various religions say. Most Atheists understand that being moral is central to survival, interestingly enough most religious folks get this too, even though theirs are generally more fucked up.

Again, most of us grow out of this "LAWL FUCK MORALITY, I AM FOR THE WIN!!!11" mentality before we leave High School.



Again with "THE JEWS." You're a fucking moron, kid. Go read some Ann Rynd, it sounds like you'd love her brand of inane bullshit.

But wait... she was A JEW!! Better not, then.



There is no point to any of that since we don't have "spirits" and there is no creature testing us.

Morals help you survive? Again, what if the rabbit taught the wolf some morals? Or about "sin" (same thing) what would happen to wolves?

As for living like that, I have. I am comforatable now, and when I have nowhere to go, I'll steal, and do as much as I think I can get away with, until I'm comforatable again (I've lived like that before).

I'm not promised an afterlife, so I'm not going to spend this one working and paying taxes. If god came out of the sky and let me know it was all a test about "what a nice guy I could be" and that I'd go to heaven if I lived a certain way, then I would, but he hasn't done that, so I'll continue living the way I do. Doing what I can without getting caught, and spreading my seed to as many white women as possible (if there is a purpose, that is what I am supposed to be doing, if not, I dont care because it's what is natural to me.)

Again, your stating your speculations like it's fact. We might not have a spirit, or we may, nobody knows. The whole thread is about how both Theism and atheism have some serious flaws. Understand, living according to your instincts, and living "every day like it's your last" are two completely different things. Living everyday like it was my last, I'd probably be dead in 6 hours, but living by my instincts involves me doing what I think I can get away with Wolves eat rabbits, not bears.

Morals help you survive? Again, what if the rabbit taught the wolf some morals? Or about "sin" (same thing) what would happen to wolves?

It is not the rabbit teaching the wolf morals. Wolves are social creatures. Most wolves do not survive for very long without a pack. Wolves taught (if you will) other pack members morals so they can operate as a unit, increasing survivablity and quality of life. They have succeeded in this.

Humans teach other humans morals for the same reason; So we can operate more effectively together increasing survivablity and quality of life. Humans have succeeded in this. Social order was needed to help humans evolve to the top of the food chain. Society FTW in Darwinism.

The problem lies when someone attributes these morals to a fantastical being or realm. When one does this they are able to manipulate moral social order to their own benefit. They accomplish this with great ease as their fantastical being or realm lacks any evidence and so their comments and manipulation are more difficult to refute or disprove.

Morals help you survive? Again, what if the rabbit taught the wolf some morals? Or about "sin" (same thing) what would happen to wolves?"

Humans are not wolves, and they are not rabbits. There is no such thing as sin.

"As for living like that, I have. I am comforatable now, and when I have nowhere to go, I'll steal, and do as much as I think I can get away with, until I'm comforatable again (I've lived like that before)."

I once had the pleasure of catching a little runt like you trying to break into my home. Statistically speaking, the chances are pretty good that one day you'll run into someone like me and lose most of your teeth as well. That's one reason why most people aren't dickbags like you.

"I'm not promised an afterlife, so I'm not going to spend this one working and paying taxes. If god came out of the sky and let me know it was all a test about "what a nice guy I could be" and that I'd go to heaven if I lived a certain way, then I would, but he hasn't done that, so I'll continue living the way I do. Doing what I can without getting caught, and spreading my seed to as many white women as possible (if there is a purpose, that is what I am supposed to be doing, if not, I dont care because it's what is natural to me.)"

Just because you will one day cease to exist doesn't give you free reign to trample over other people's rights (ie: stealing like a little whore). It's called a social contract, you breach that contract you get your ass kicked if we catch you. Unless you're a CEO or a politician, chances are you'll be caught eventually.

"Again, your stating your speculations like it's fact. We might not have a spirit, or we may, nobody knows."

No dickbag, we don't have spirits. We don't have the physical facilities to generate anything like that. The only reason there is a "debate" on the subject is because religious fuckshits don't know what the hell they're talking about.

"The whole thread is about how both Theism and atheism have some serious flaws."

Atheism does not have flaws since it doesn't seek to explain anything, it's not a belief system, merely an observation. All you've done is lament about not being able to wrap your brain around simple, basic logic.

"Understand, living according to your instincts, and living "every day like it's your last" are two completely different things. Living everyday like it was my last, I'd probably be dead in 6 hours, but living by my instincts involves me doing what I think I can get away with Wolves eat rabbits, not bears.

Again, you are not a wolf. You are not a rabbit. You are a human being, and a selfish little prick who thinks it's edgy to ramble on about "THE JEWS" and about how cool it is to steal and get away with it. In short, you're an idiot that's going to get himself beat halfway to death either on the street, in someone's home or in jail.

But for silverwolf, the question still has to be answered, why would whatever created us need to test us for anything? And it isn't testing us, then what could possibly be the purpose for us being here?

Well, those 2 questions are fairly stupid...why do you assume that something created us? If you ask what created the big bang, I'd say nothing, it just happened...came from nothing...then you could argue that something can't come from nothing according to modern scientific theory but then again according to modern scientific theory nothing can go faster than the speed of light but in the first few minutes after the big bang the universe was a few light years across!! I did ask my science teachers about this when I was at school and they all gave me the same answer "You'd have to ask a physicist" I was pretty disappointed :(

Anyway, on to your second question :)
Don't know, but I'll tell you what I believe to be the best answer I can give...our purpose is what we make it, if we chose to do nothing with our lives our purpose is to fill in a gap or we have no purpose at all. However, if we decide to work hard and succeed, our purpose is ultimately to contribute significantly to history and human kind, be it through destruction or creation...again it is up to you