seems whenever i talk to an atheist about why they think the way they do, i get pretty lame answers.. "its just wishful thinking", "if you read the bible the way it was ment to be read you would understand", "because prayers go unanswered", "because there is unhappiness".

why exactly are you atheist? and please, no vague or stupid answers. atheists tend to be more intelligent, so i expect an intelligent discussion.

oh i forgot to mention.. im working under the assumption atheists do not believe in a soul/afterlife AND god. i have heard some things here and there the led me to think maybe they simply do not believe in god. i may have used the wrong word to describe the people im actually talking about.

Because the only evidence for God is purely speculation. Contrary to what most theists think the burden of proof lies with those who make the extraordinary declarations (ie God exists). Usually the people who believe in God give unsatisfying answers like "well where did the universe come from??" and the all time favorite "because the Bible said so." If you believe in something without evidence such as God then you might as well believe in fairies, tiny celestial tea pots, and invisible pink unicorns (all of which have no contradictory evidence and therefore equally plausible).

Because I don't believe in any supernatural forces unless I witness them first hand.

It really is that simple. I don't see how this can be drawn out into a discussion.

It's funny how atheists always have to explain the reasons behind their views. Religion is a mental illness, a belief in the paranormal. Atheism is completely normal, and a product of more evolved minds that don't require primitive fairy tales to dictate how to live, or to explain the unexplainable.

i think that burden of proof thing is also pretty silly. i think we know just enough about the universe to know we can never fully understand it, impossible things are continually proven to not be impossible, and unthinkable things just so happen to be the very fabric of reality. i dont see how its so silly to think that maybe, just maybe, there is a "soul" made out of stuff we can not yet detect and examine. i think its silly to assume we know enough at this point in time to say no, there isnt.

you can use what ever word salad you want to try to say im wrong, but saying you know beyond doubt one way or the other, is just silly.

i think that burden of proof thing is also pretty silly.

Of course the burden of proof is on the one with outrageous claims.

If you don't know about Russell's Teapot, you should get acquainted with it. It explains this in better terms than I ever could:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

weird, your link wasnt clickable?

i only read to slightly past this, "n his 2003 book A Devil's Chaplain, Richard Dawkins developed the teapot theme a little further", because it seemed to be getting into religion, which this is not about.

quantum mechanics shows that indeed such a thing is possible. assuming time is infinite, it is not only possible, but will happen. all things (within the laws of physics) are possible. at any given time, a pink pony could appear out of no where. it does not require googolpex times googolplex squared years to happen either. these things can happen at any time.

so yes, somewhere out there, perhaps now, there is a creature who is as similar to the flying spaghetti monster as allowed by physics.

Quantum mechanics is all theory as well.

And besides, I don't think that Atheism necessarily implies a total denial of any possibility of any supernatural entities. Atheism is more of a form of skepticism. As in, show me proof, then I'll consider believing.

Which is why Atheism just generally makes a LOT more sense than any form of Theism, as an Atheist has a nearly infinitely higher chance of being right.

i dont see how they have any more or less chance of being right than someone who just thinks "maybe there is, maybe there isnt". the fact that it is more logical doesnt make it more right necessarily.

i dont see how they have any more or less chance of being right than someone who just thinks "maybe there is, maybe there isnt". the fact that it is more logical doesnt make it more right necessarily.

One can try to rationalize whatever belief they want. But if the pursual of truth is their ultimate goal, then they stand a VERY high chance of being wrong.

in the end you are right.

i was just annoyed with the shitty answers i was getting from the people i was asking i guess. totse people (excluding the ones outside this forum at least) are the only atheists who have made good arguments. its the ones who believe that there is undoubtedly no afterlife who irritate me.

its the ones who believe that there is undoubtedly no afterlife who irritate me.

I know what you mean. I personally think it is a bit ridiculous to state without any doubt that there is absolutely no chance of any supernatural forces.

That is being just as close minded as being a devout Christian, Muslim, or Jew, etc. As they are pretty much required by their religion to have absolute faith in their chosen beliefs. That means absolutely no room for compromise or "what if"s.

If there is a god, no religion or human that ever lived knew or knows anything about it. Chances are very, very good that gods are just fictional constructs, just as the chances are very, very good that I'm not going to suddenly develop mutant superpowers.

It comes down to the fact that there is absolutely nothing to indicate that any of these self-contradictory, logically impossible and often morally abhorrent god-creatures are real. Theists will talk up a shitstorm of misunderstandings, misinformation and often outright lies in order to hide this fact, but the reality is until somebody making the incredible claim that there IS a god backs that up with something tangible, something testable, something that's not utter bullshit, then their belief is rediculous.

The burden of proof is on the person or people making the claim. If I claim that I've been in contact with Martians, I would be expected to back that up with proof, or be laughed out of the fucking building. If you claim there is a god, then back that up, or get laughed out of the fucking building. You may not like that OP, but to that I say tough shit. That's how we actually figure things out.

Logic, reason, science; these are the systems that enable us to learn about the universe in which we live. We can correct ourselves when we are wrong using these tools, and discover new information to add to our repository of knowledge. Mere belief, especially in things that are logically impossible and infinitely improbable, does not accomplish what these tools accomplish. The fact that I'm talking to you and others right now who are likely hundreds if not thousands of kilometers away, using only metal box and a screen is proof that those tools accomplish something. That we know the chemical makeup of stars and planets hundreds of light years away from Earth, that we can cure diseases long thought incurable, that we can save lives- all of this, prove that science gets results.

God-beliefs? They hold back the use of such incredible tools as that. They hurt people, and ruin humanity's capacity for logical thought. It's day is past and it's lashing out at everyone in it's death throws. And it has to stop.

I'm an atheist because I see no compelling reason to believe in the existence of a god. I see no evidence or proof for them, and most of the gods proposed are illogical and/or trivial.


Being an atheist does not mean you have to claim god's don't exist. It means you lack a belief in gods. I lack of a belief in a god, I don't believe in gods. That does not mean I claim that they are impossible or that I know that they don't exist. They could. Hell, many interpretations of gods make me wish they did; a heavenly afterlife would be a wonderful thing. But since I see no compelling reason to believe in a god, and since I don't base my beliefs on what I wish were true, then my position is that I do not believe in gods until something compels me to believe they one or more do.

ugh, i wish people would stop talking about god. i think the idea of god in any normal sense is silly.

however, why did you say "Chances are very, very good that gods are just fictional constructs"? if there were an all-powerful super being, which did not want anyone to know it existed until after they were "on the other side", dont you think that since its you know.. all-powerful and stuff.. it could pull off such a feat?

all-powerful super being, which did not want anyone to know it existed until after they were "on the other side", dont you think that since its you know.. all-powerful and stuff.. it could pull off such a feat?

That pretty much is the definition of a God.

I don't believe in any of the above 3 subjects. Souls and the afterlife are seemingly even more illogical beliefs than god. Souls are metaphorical constructs of the ancients to understand the difference between one who is alive and one who is dead. We've given up anthropomorphic gods to explain (most) natural events, why can't we give up this notion of a soul? As for the afterlife, there is no reason to believe in it, it's simply an Egyptian religious belief with no basis; just a hopeful Freudian construct to fulfill our desire to be immortal.

dont you think that since its you know.. all-powerful and stuff.. it could pull off such a feat?

It sure could. A magical invisible unicorn could also be dancing in your room right now, right? "Could" is meaningless. We could propose a million ridiculous scenarios that "could" be true.

What we should be asking ourselves is "should" we? Why should we propose those scenarios when they don't really explain anything, when they have no evidence supporting them, and when we can live our lives just fine without them? We shouldn't.

That pretty much is the definition of a God.

i know..

now no one get me confused. like ive said, i tend to think there isnt a god.

however, what he said doesnt make any sense to me. how could one think the odds of there not being a god are great? because of lack of evidence? well our definition of a god is something which is powerful enough to have created out universe. it obviously, would it want to, make it so that we could not know of its existence.

It sure could. A magical invisible unicorn could also be dancing in your room right now, right? "Could" is meaningless. We could propose a million ridiculous scenarios that "could" be true.

What we should be asking ourselves is "should" we? Why should we propose those scenarios when they don't really explain anything, when they have no evidence supporting them, and when we can live our lives just fine without them? We shouldn't.

this is true. however it doesnt change the fact that his statement was wrong :p

I don't believe in any of the above 3 subjects. Souls and the afterlife are seemingly even more illogical beliefs than god. Souls are metaphorical constructs of the ancients to understand the difference between one who is alive and one who is dead. We've given up anthropomorphic gods to explain (most) natural events, why can't we give up this notion of a soul? As for the afterlife, there is no reason to believe in it, it's simply an Egyptian religious belief with no basis; just a hopeful Freudian construct to fulfill our desire to be immortal.

i tend to believe in an afterlife for many reason. i do not wish to live forever though. my idea of an afterlife does not involve "hell", but it also does not involve eternal bliss. i would love it if when i die, i am dead.

"ugh, i wish people would stop talking about god. i think the idea of god in any normal sense is silly."

And when you start talking about gods in an abnormal sense, you get new age fucksticks that try and define them into existence (ie: "God is this toaster, this toaster exists therefore LOLOLOOOLOLLOL.") Why did you start this thread?

"however, why did you say "Chances are very, very good that gods are just fictional constructs"? if there were an all-powerful super being, which did not want anyone to know it existed until after they were "on the other side", dont you think that since its you know.. all-powerful and stuff.. it could pull off such a feat?"

And what if that all powerful superbeing is actually William Shatner? He's just Shatner. All these years, he's been hiding his true nature as the god of the universe, and he'll never tell us, but he is, in fact, Bill Shatner.

See, what you said didn't make sense and neither did I, and you just defined gods. There's no reason to think that a think like that is out there, so why believe it? Could that be true? If you want to get RIGHT DOWN to it, almost anything is possible. It could be that there are an infinite number of parallel universes for every thought we've ever had, that's possible if you want to get down into the utter fraction of it, or if you deliberately stitch cop-outs into whatever you're defining (He's there but he doesn't want us to know he's there, etc)

Statistically speaking, there is probably other intelligent life out there in the universe. Rare, but likely... we're probably the only sentient life in this galaxy. It's conceivable that somewhere in the universe, there exists a civilization that has evolved to a point where they seem to possess godlike powers; as any sufficiently advanced technology will appear to be magic. But we will almost certainly never know about them nor they about us.

You can point to that "almost" or that "probably" and jump up and down, going "See! See! You don't knooooow for sure!" all you like, but it won't change the fact that all of that was merely rampant speculation. If there is such a god-being, we will never know about it, nor will he have any affect on what we do here on Earth.

Again, until someone can provide proof that crap is real, it's speculation at best, psychotic nonsense at worst.

Here is the real reason someone should be an atheist:

Religions have been the disease of humanity for too long. It divides groups of people, inspires war, and has no positive aspects that couldn't be found elsewhere.

The fact that religion promotes good behavior to your fellow man is Bullshit. If parents just taught their kids to have respect for everyone else, we wouldn't need religion.

Religion was created when life sucked. Life expectancy was at something like 30 years, and life was difficult. So people imagined that there was another easier life ahead of them.

It is disillusionment.

My life is absent of God. That is the only thing that makes me an atheist.

Has nothing to do with whether or not God exists. I'd still be an atheist (without God) if it was proven to me otherwise. I'd be less skeptical about it, sure - but it would take a lot more than just realizing the existence of a God in order to make me a devoted worshipper.

^That's really stretching the definition of "atheist" past it's modern usage. If you disbelieve in gods you are an atheist, if it were somehow proven that one did exist you would no longer be an atheist, but that doesn't mean you'd suddenly start worshipping the cocksucker.

How the definition of atheism has been warped by modern times is of no concern to me. The modern definition is disbelief or denial of the existence of God(s). The original usage of the word was meant to convey "without God". I believe my stance falls into the denial of God's existence as is relevant to my own.

I would still be considered an atheist if God was proven to exist.

I would still be considered an atheist if God was proven to exist.

What if this God proclaimed publicly that any non-believers would be forced to endure an eternity of hell in the after life?

EDIT: And you have to believe in this God exclusively. You cannot have any other beliefs if you want to avoid this supposed hell.

Epic lulz would ensure if two opposing God's appeared and they both proclaimed that obeying each others' opponent meant an eternity in hell.

What if this God proclaimed publicly that any non-believers would be forced to endure an eternity of hell in the after life?

EDIT: And you have to believe in this God exclusively. You cannot have any other beliefs if you want to avoid this supposed hell.

Wouldn't budge. Afterlife is for souls to endure, not physical bodies with brains and central nervous systems. So the "pain and suffering" wouldn't be something I'd fret over.

It's principle. People have suffered over principles since the beginning of time. If devoting my life and praising a being who would sadistically burn that which he created just because they didn't worship him would put me in hell, then let's just say that I'm ready to "suffer" the consequences, whatever they may be.

What would you do, gadzooks? Submit immediately?

I reject any of the common notions of God because I feel that they restrict him. The OT God and Allah are examples of this: infinite beings do not get jealous, infinite beings don't need you to believe in them, to tell me that God is gonna fuck your shit up if you don't believe in him completely contradicts God as I understand him.

If there is God then he is the greatest thing there is, and no believing will change that , because he IS. And what's more he can't and won't be limited, God must, if he is to be God, contain everything.

Of course, the important part of the sentence above is 'if'.

I like the idea of God, but I can't accept it. I can't accept it not so much because there is no evidence but because I have not experienced God, or worked it through in my mind in such a way that I feel it must be true. 'Course, once I've got that down I'm quite happy to break down into some kind of crazy bum/monk and live my life in a monastery.

Until then, I'll find something else to do.

What would you do, gadzooks? Submit immediately?

Well, assuming that a God has been proven, and he is somehow communicating with us, I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility that he can somehow preserve consciousness into the after life.

But then again, this is getting way too theoretical anyway. I guess it was kind of a silly question.

But I see what you mean about principle. And that does have some importance for me. However, if it meant avoiding an eternity of suffering, or anything even close to that, I'd pretty much be sold on the whole believing-against-my-will thing. :(

EDIT: I guess what I mean to say is that I'm not as strong willed as you. There's still a bit of a God fearer in me. Although I am overcoming it more and more. I guess I'm still recovering from a bit of a brainwashed past.

you can use what ever word salad you want to try to say im wrong, but saying you know beyond doubt one way or the other, is just silly.

Which is correct. Anyone willing to say they know with any degree of certainty one way or the other is foolish. But to say you don't believe because there is no evidence is an entirely different story. I'd be perfectly willing to accept the existence of a God if it were shown to exist.

I'm practically an atheist, although more correctly I'm agnostic leaning heavily towards atheism. This is because, unlike some of my extremely religious friends and family, I've never "felt" God.

This "god" of yours has never shown me any proof or reasons to believe, and NEVER will. NEVER.

this is true. however it doesnt change the fact that his statement was wrong :p

The fact that he was wrong? You have quantified the possibility of a god really existing? I doubt it.

You could say it was unsupported, but "wrong" implies you have proof.

I think the single greatest argument against theism is people of different beliefs, who worship different gods, claim that they have 'felt' their god, that their god has talked to them and that their god has performed miracles for them or for others.

Also religion plays off of way to many of the characteristics of the human psyche for it to be believable. Insecurity, fear of death, desire to know an absolute truth, desire to be part of something great, desire for positive intervention in situations (prayer), hope, doing good without doing anything (prayer). Organizations that promise everything and depend on your flawed human mind to deliver.

I am an Atheist because I have yet to be presented a good reason to believe in a God.

I am an athiest because i simply think mankind has-not the power to comprehend how life, death, and the universe really works. We are just simple creatures, and atheism is the choice that i find most reasonable...but im not really athiest, i have faith in something, i just have no clue what it is or how it works. I call it Luck...maybe.
...vote for brown

It seems that the argument against atheism is, "Omg ANYTHING'S possible, yo. Even if it seems wrong, there's not really any evidence proving that the world wasn't created by a sentient being."

But to rehash the arguments of others here.. there's no definite proof for the existence of vampires either. I can claim (truthfully) that I don't believe vampires exist, because they're nothing more than a man-made.. well, fictional story. I just see the thought of an omnipotent being as something completely irrational and impossible. Sure, there's no possible way to be 100% certain that something like this doesn't exist (vampires again), but that's no reason to consider yourself agnostic. Just as I consider myself to have no faith in vampires, I also consider myself to have no faith in a god. Both are absurd, in my mind.

seems whenever i talk to an atheist about why they think the way they do, i get pretty lame answers.. "its just wishful thinking", "if you read the bible the way it was ment to be read you would understand", "because prayers go unanswered", "because there is unhappiness".

why exactly are you atheist? and please, no vague or stupid answers. atheists tend to be more intelligent, so i expect an intelligent discussion.

I can sum it up very briefly.

There is no scientific evidence for God at all, not a single bit of evidence. And all the creation stories religious people have do not jive with the knowledge we have discovered scientifically.

Some people believe the Earth is less than 10000 years old. While we have radioactive carbon 14 dating that *proves* the Earth is 4.6 billion years old.

Not only that, we have mathematics that show that the rate of expansion of the Universe, if you run it in reverse, that all the galaxies would be on top of each other about 13.7 billion years ago.

Religion is a very old fossil that we still have with us today because that is what people believed they were here for. Not only that though all sequence of events in Jesus' life is completely astronomical(Look it up). They knew nothing about the world, they needed a reason to live.

I would not call them stupid, because their governments influenced their lives heavily and forced them to believe those things (take Rome for instance when they forced everyone to be a Christian). I believe the cheif tenet for religion today persisting is because of the State controlling and dominating everyone's life for the past 2 millenniums.

Some people believe the Earth is less than 10000 years old. While we have radioactive carbon 14 dating that *proves* the Earth is 4.6 billion years old.

Not only that, we have mathematics that show that the rate of expansion of the Universe, if you run it in reverse, that all the galaxies would be on top of each other about 13.7 billion years ago.

Religion is a very old fossil that we still have with us today because that is what people believed they were here for. Not only that though all sequence of events in Jesus' life is completely astronomical(Look it up). They knew nothing about the world, they needed a reason to live.

You're putting a lot of faith in your science and math.

Those are all just theories too!

Heathen. God will smite you!

Oh, and the fossils are there because God is testing our faith! :mad:

Oh, and the fossils are there because God is testing our faith! :mad:

Same thing with DNA!

Because I don't believe in anything that doesn't have actual scientific evidence. We have no reason to believe there is anything beyond the existence we see here, so I believe nothing beyond the existence I see here.

Because the only evidence for God is purely speculation. Contrary to what most theists think the burden of proof lies with those who make the extraordinary declarations (ie God exists). Usually the people who believe in God give unsatisfying answers like "well where did the universe come from??" and the all time favorite "because the Bible said so." If you believe in something without evidence such as God then you might as well believe in fairies, tiny celestial tea pots, and invisible pink unicorns (all of which have no contradictory evidence and therefore equally plausible).

If belief in fairies, celestial tea pots, and invisible pink unicorns would change my entire way of life for the better, I would gladly believe in them, pray to them, and worship them.

The thing is, when I prayed for the Way, I was shown the Way. When I found I couldn't follow this Way, I prayed for the ability, and I was given the power needed.

Doubt all you want, but for me, Faith works.

You're putting a lot of faith in your science and math.

Those are all just theories too!

Heathen. God will smite you!


Absolutely not! This data I mentioned is gotten by empirical evidence (evidence we can observe). Science and math can be flawed(Scientists admit their mistakes to get the real answer, how many times has religion changed in lieu of new evidence on something? Religion pretends to know something about science). In math you can get solutions that make absolutely no sense at all. What is entirely possible in math may not make any sense in the physical world. Science and math can be flawed and scientists admit that. The reason they are successful is because they can admit they are wrong. Unlike religion who say "We have the divine truth and if you don't believe us your stupid."

While yes those are theories just a theory they remain so only in a technical sense. You really can not prove anything. I could say that there is an invisible person here who only I can see and talks to me and you can never see him ever. I could never prove to you he is not there, but you can not prove that he isn't. You would think im insane. Kinda the same thing with religious people and atheists.

By saying those are just theories and acting like they could be wrong is like saying the theory that the Earth goes around the Sun could be wrong. Or does the sun revolve around us, just like the church wanted you to believe for centuries.

The very notion that you would call me a heathen is quite distressing and what is more distressing is that you did it. It reminds me of the dark ages(the word originated then) when there was no knowledge and the church told you what to think and the state told you what to do. Do you have the same mentality as a feudalistic peasant did? Serve your master and give all your money to the church and to the state. By your words and logic it appears that you are. I suggest you read a few books. Read God Delusion and Atheists guide to the universe.

The very notion that you would call me a heathen is quite distressing and what is more distressing is that you did it. It reminds me of the dark ages(the word originated then) when there was no knowledge and the church told you what to think and the state told you what to do. Do you have the same mentality as a feudalistic peasant did? Serve your master and give all your money to the church and to the state. By your words and logic it appears that you are. I suggest you read a few books. Read God Delusion and Atheists guide to the universe.

Dude, it's all good man. I am an avid atheist.

I kinda hoped that my second post would have given that away: :p

Oh, and the fossils are there because God is testing our faith! :mad:

I was just dropping those common, silly rebuttals that Theists will generally throw at you for mentioning what science has proven for us.

And I have read and viewed a lot of Dawkins' work, and so far agree with a lot he has to say.

I'm not. I just came in to point out what pisses off atheists the most, that is, no matter how right they think they are saying there's no proof of god, there's also no proof to suggest there isn't either.

I'm not. I just came in to point out what pisses off atheists the most, that is, no matter how right they think they are saying there's no proof of god, there's also no proof to suggest there isn't either.

Thanks to this post, I fear the possibility of murderous Gnomes.

Thanks to this post, I fear the possibility of murderous Gnomes.

And I fear an intelligent word coming from celebrity atheist leader type that atheist nobodies look up to...like dickie dawkins.

Oh and to all the atheists saying that you're a non-believer because you haven't seen, heard or experienced a god and therefore won't believe in it...that's the same as saying I've never experienced Paris in the Springtime so therefore Paris only has the Autumn months.

Oh and to all the atheists saying that you're a non-believer because you haven't seen, heard or experienced a god and therefore won't believe in it...that's the same as saying I've never experienced Paris in the Springtime so therefore Paris only has the Autumn months.

Not quite. Actually.. not in the least. We all know someone that has experienced Paris in those months firsthand, and we can verify with textbooks, research and news that such things DO, infact, happen. It can be scientifically proven. You disbelieve? Let's meet up in April and I can prove this to you by taking you to France.

No one has experienced a god.

EDITED because I read quote wrong.

No one has experienced a god.

EDITED because I read quote wrong.

O rly?

And you should edit your whole post if you want to fix what is wrong ;)

O rly?

And you should edit your whole post if you want to fix what is wrong ;)

Okay okay, there are people that CLAIM to have experienced a god, but they can't take someone to Paris and prove it to them.

I'm not. I just came in to point out what pisses off atheists the most, that is, no matter how right they think they are saying there's no proof of god, there's also no proof to suggest there isn't either.

I don't say there is no proof of god, and I'm an atheist. Fail.

I don't say there is no proof of god, and I'm an atheist. Fail.

So there's proof and you deny god anyhow? And I fail? I see I see - Are you one of those uniquely rebellious atheists or something? Not wanting to be another face in the crowd of these amassing morons? :D Are you hating to see that everyone and their dog are labelling themselves atheists and it's no longer a taboo that you tell people what you are and they don't understand what that means so you get a chance to talk about yourself and how different you *were*.

I said 'I don't say there's no proof'. Whether there is or there isn't I can't say for sure... hence why I don't say there's no proof, and why I also don't say there is proof. Get it? It's quite easy to understand.

Thanks for jumping to some ridiculous conclusions! It was hilarious and quite telling.

P.S. Even with the recent trend, atheists are still vastly outnumbered. Not that I became an atheist for that reason, it's just funny to see that even your inane assumptions fail miserably. :)

I said 'I don't say there's no proof'. Whether there is or there isn't I can't say for sure... hence why I don't say there's no proof, and why I also don't say there is proof. Get it? It's quite easy to understand.

Thanks for jumping to some ridiculous conclusions! It was hilarious and quite telling.

P.S. Even with the recent trend, atheists are still vastly outnumbered. Not that I became an atheist for that reason, it's just funny to see that even your inane assumptions fail miserably. :)

Hah well you're a fence sitter much like myself except I don't go around calling myself a 'atheist'

Hah well you're a fence sitter much like myself except I don't go around calling myself a 'atheist'

I've seen a lot of shit misinterpreted on the internet before, but this has to take the cake.

I've seen a lot of shit misinterpreted on the internet before, but this has to take the cake.

If you saw and heard what happens out here, what atheists say and do...you wouldn't think so. Non-god believers trying to convert people, just as bad or worse then those they dispise. You've said so yourself...don't deny it, you want atheists in power so religious argument is not in government policy.

They're not atheists? Of course they are, what else would you brand them? Never, in a million years would I align myself with such

Hah well you're a fence sitter much like myself except I don't go around calling myself a 'atheist'

Hah... No. I'm an atheist because I lack a belief in god. That makes me an atheist by definition (http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/martin.htm).

Next time you go around trying to "piss off atheists" like a fucking moron, maybe you'd like to educate yourself on what an "atheist" is to begin with.

Hah... No. I'm an atheist because I lack a belief in god. That makes me an atheist by definition (http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/martin.htm).

Next time you go around trying to "piss off atheists" like a fucking moron, maybe you'd like to educate yourself on what an "atheist" is to begin with.

'Denial' so I got half of the dipshits right with my first shot right? You can't silo in two different beliefs altogether. That's no different from saying someone denies OR doesn't believe the holocaust occured. You're either one or you're the fucking other. Atheists might want to clarify things if they want to be taken seriously which is a fucking laugh and a half considering the 'enlightened' nose up your own ass self loving attitudes you have.

'Try' to piss you off? heh looks like it worked if that was my aim.

I'm an atheist and I don't believe in god
and
I'm an atheist who might

:rolleyes:

What a great umbrella term. Least it's fashionable to label yourself as such though.

'Denial' so I got half of the dipshits right with my first shot right?

Not necessarily unless you have some kind of proof that strong atheism and weak atheism are just as predominant. Do you?

I'm guessing not because this elementary reasoning eluded you. Let me know if I'm right or wrong. It's funny to me.


You can't silo in two different beliefs altogether. That's no different from saying someone denies OR doesn't believe the holocaust occured. You're either one or you're the fucking other. Atheists might want to clarify things if they want to be taken seriously which is a fucking laugh and a half considering the 'enlightened' nose up your own ass self loving attitudes you have.


[...]

I'm an atheist and I don't believe in god
and
I'm an atheist who might

:rolleyes:

What a great umbrella term. Least it's fashionable to label yourself as such though.Did you even read the article? The word and its definition comes from the Greeks. Contrary to your childish beliefs, this isn't a term made to be fashionable, or rebellious. It just happens to be the opposite of the word "theist". "Theist" means "with god" thus "atheist" means "without god".

If you lack a belief in god, then you are an atheist. It's that simple. Within those who are atheists, there are some that believe that a god cannot exist, and those that believe it one may exist but they currently do not believe in one. Just like there are hundreds of different sects of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, et cetera because they could all differ in certain beliefs, but ultimately they are theists - because they do have a belief in a god.

If you think the theist position is any less complicated (as if this was complicated... Jeez...), then you're sorely mistaken.

...and those that believe it one may exist but they currently do not believe in one.

Just...wow.

If there was a crossed eyed smile smacking his head in disbelief (no pun intended, don't get biblical on me ;) ) I'd so use it right now.

Ahh Rust, you and your ways. Caring enough to post, why you're just a saint

"May exist", as in, "they don't discount the possibility of one existing".

I don't discount the possibility of extraterrestrials existing. But do I believe an extraterrestrial race has made contact with Earth? No. It's called 'not making a claim when you don't have all the facts'.

This is quite easy, if you still don't understand, seek help immediately.

If you saw and heard what happens out here, what atheists say and do...you wouldn't think so.

I then wouldn't think that you mislabeled Rust as an agnostic? wtf are you on about?

Non-god believers trying to convert people, just as bad or worse then those they dispise.

They don't try to "convert" them - atheism isn't some kind of quasi-religion or chartered club. Unabashedly speaking out about how their views should be equally respected and considered, becoming widely accepted rather than shameful and scorned upon - is their right as a human being. Life, love and the pursuit of happiness, right?

Or should they just pipe down and respect all other viewpoints as long as theirs doesn't get spoken too loudly and ... *gasp* ... offend someone's religion?

The reason they despise religious people for doing essentially that same thing is because religion has these nasty little mental torture devices that threaten non-believers with their God's promise of an eternity of suffering. The religious carriers of that message never miss an opportunity to use that as a marketing tool. But they don't want to sell it to you. They want to "save" you. God doesn't really want to send you to a fiery furnace - he wants to forgive you! :rolleyes:

...don't deny it, you want atheists in power so religious argument is not in government policy.

They don't necessarily have to be full-blown atheists. I'd like to see anyone in power who could consistently practice an absolute, unwavering policy of separation of church and state. I don't really give a shit what kind of fantasy world they escape to when they're not at work on Capitol Hill busting out the policy and procedures. While they're on taxpayer time, all that fluff gets checked at the front door.

They're not atheists? Of course they are, what else would you brand them?

Who is "they"?? Because the initial confusion (on your part) came in when you kinda hinted that he is agnostic, per the "fence sitter" label, which I found kind of amusing.

Don't you see? Proof alone would not equal instant conversion for most atheists. I for one would still need a whole lot of convincing that this Designer required worship, or even cared about my feeble existence.

Wouldn't you?

TS: Just as there is some doubt in the minds of Jews and Christians as to whether the other belief is right, so too is there uncertainty among atheists as to whether a God is possible. If I'm 99.9% sure the Christian God is true, but would be willing to accept the Jewish God, would that make me a non-Christian? Same story here.

TS: Just as there is some doubt in the minds of Jews and Christians as to whether the other belief is right, so too is there uncertainty among atheists as to whether a God is possible. If I'm 99.9% sure the Christian God is true, but would be willing to accept the Jewish God, would that make me a non-Christian? Same story here.

God damn (again now pun intended) all of you need to shut the fuck up if you're going to be all tip toey about what you think you know, perhaps, if maybe, in the chance of, anything actually ever happening.

You pricks dunno what you are or what to believe, neither do I but fucked if I make a big deal out of it.

God forbid (lulz) you'd shut up for a second, AngryFemme you say Atheists should be accpeted, they should also be allowed the belittle others by likening others beliefs to fairytales.

"We'll believe it when it's in front of our faces". Would you not believe me if I told you your head was on fire but didn't have a mirror to prove it, you could feel the heat or smell your hair burning too? pfft fucking hell

God forbid (lulz) you'd shut up for a second, AngryFemme you say Atheists should be accpeted, they should also be allowed the belittle others by likening others beliefs to fairytales.


Sorry, but I call it like I see it. Just like they do. You can sleep good at night knowing that some God, somewhere... may very well damn me for it when I expire.

Theists are wrong until proven right, but so are atheists. There's no proof that there isn't a God, and so AngryFemme, your beliefs are fairy tales aswell.

And the atheists that actually do try to convince others that there is no God and that the atheist belief is the right one are worse than most religious people who do the same thing. Why? Because theism generally encourages hope whilst atheism encourages hopelessness.

Personally, I don't know what I believe in, and I'd rather not commit to any viewpoint at the moment.

Personally, I don't know what I believe in, and I'd rather not commit to any viewpoint at the moment.

Glad to hear you haven't committed yourself to either side, 'Bub - because retarded statements like "atheism encourages hopelessness" points to the fact that you have seriously been misguided in your revelations concerning the range of happiness and inner well-being of atheists.

Why do you assume they wallow in hopelessness, and despair?

Also, where does the fairy tale lie in my beliefs? Please enlighten me. Note that proof of existence would not make all atheists turn on their heels and join the other side.

I don't know if this going to end up being just your typical atheist answer or if it's already been said before but I was never taught to be religious or to believe in a higher being. And because I never had that background or education, it is so much easier for me to just say, "If he doesn't show up and grant me a miracle, then God doesn't exist." I don't understand why God kept talking to the people in the Bible, but when times came that we needed "salvation" or assurance or just a swift kick to our egos and fear today in this world, He never showed up to say "look, I'm for real" or "Believe in me." I don't know, I guess I'm just rambling, but if he does indeed exists, he's an asshole for not helping us in real times of need. And like I said, I was never taught to believe in God, so it's like someone telling me to believe that alien from Mars came to tell me I needed to be a better person. It's the same concept.
Now, I am going to be bashed so badly, aren't I?

I don't know if this going to end up being just your typical atheist answer or if it's already been said before but I was never taught to be religious or to believe in a higher being. And because I never had that background or education, it is so much easier for me to just say, "If he doesn't show up and grant me a miracle, then God doesn't exist." I don't understand why God kept talking to the people in the Bible, but when times came that we needed "salvation" or assurance or just a swift kick to our egos and fear today in this world, He never showed up to say "look, I'm for real" or "Believe in me." I don't know, I guess I'm just rambling, but if he does indeed exists, he's an asshole for not helping us in real times of need. And like I said, I was never taught to believe in God, so it's like someone telling me to believe that alien from Mars came to tell me I needed to be a better person. It's the same concept.
Now, I am going to be bashed so badly, aren't I?

Some people take things too seriously - like you might get bashed for saying you're atheist in addition to the implication that you are just that perhaps due to a lack of education (on that particular subject), But I won't let them, you're too lovely and you. aww

Some people take things too seriously - like you might get bashed for saying you're atheist in addition to the implication that you are just that perhaps due to a lack of education (on that particular subject), But I won't let them, you're too lovely and you. aww

Lol, I just needed to TALK, you know? All this pent up sexual frustration coming out in a poorly executed atheism debate.
But I AM too lovely and me, aren't I? :D

Lol, I just needed to TALK, you know? All this pent up sexual frustration coming out in a poorly executed atheism debate.
But I AM too lovely and me, aren't I? :D

Yes and yes. :)

I don't mean to pent us both up but...

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8987/atheistsexgd8.jpg

Does this forum allow Img Tags? Here's hoping :p

Why do you assume they wallow in hopelessness, and despair?

I for one, wallow in apathy. :)

Yes and yes. :)

I don't mean to pent us both up but...

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8987/atheistsexgd8.jpg

Does this forum allow Img Tags? Here's hoping :p

Oh, that is hot.
I like the expression on the girl's face, lol. She is like, W..T..F.

Here's a more important question for any individual to ask themselves: Why haven't you committed suicide?

I have an affinity for believing the answer lays in such things as hope, love, compassion, purpose, honesty, and so on.

Now, ignoring whether or not you believe these things to result from natural processes or a god, do we not all find these things in the core of our being? Now, do we not all also find that these things are magnified and further present in ourself when we practice them in our relationships with others? Now, do we also all find that when we are in the pursuit of our own desires, we may possibly throw one or more of these ideals to the curb in order to gain? Now, do we also all find that if we seek the same desire we lost an ideal to, that we find it rather difficult to maintain said ideal? Now, do we also all find that at this point, we must dig deep within ourselves, admitting where we misstepped in order to overcome said difficulty, thus obtaining the ideal we had lost?

Does it really matter whether an individual calls this process soul-searching or not? Does it really matter whether one knows with certainty the exact nature of these attributes that exist within them? If one can utilize these abilities and this process without the knowledge that these abilities are not their own, and the process is done only by the guidance of a consciousness greater than their own, does it really matter? If one walks with God, does it really matter whether they call God by that label, or give it a limited label of introspection? Does it matter whether or not one recognizes that when they ask a question within their being, and the answer comes in the wrapping of their own thoughts, that it is Voice in a disguise that allows the individual to trust it as more than delusion? Does it matter whether or not someone incapable of trusting their own thoughts asks a question within their being, and the answer comes in no wrapping, allowing the individual to trust it as the Voice, rather than their own delusion?

I pose this to fellow theists: What is more important to you, walking with God? Or calling the Walk by that label?

I pose this to atheists/agnostics: What is more important to you, being selfless? Or calling a good life by that label?

Here's a more important question for any individual to ask themselves: Why haven't you committed suicide?
Who would take care of my mushroom farm?:(:confused:

I pose this to atheists/agnostics: What is more important to you, being selfless? Or calling a good life by that label?

False dichotomy.

Besides, selflessness doesn't necessitate divine intervention, nor even a divine existence. There's a reason most atheists vote Democrat. ;) And besides, a "good" life is subjective. Most people idolize the selfless but we all know the selfish have more fun in this life, at least physically. The key lies in the middle.

What good is a life full of argument? Is selfish opposition truly so fun that thoughts run directly towards an attempt to disprove an ideal rather than let the ideal prove itself through practice?

Look deeper, nshanin. Your surface is quick, but your depths are wise.

"What good is a life full of argument?"

It's better than a life of silently taking it up the ass from idiots that think they have a "personal relationship" with the voices in their head.

"Is selfish opposition truly so fun that thoughts run directly towards an attempt to disprove an ideal rather than let the ideal prove itself through practice?"

Your ideals are bullshit, as history has repeatedly demonstrated. I'd be a massive asshole if I didn't at least take some of the endless oppertunities you and others like you provide to point out how utterly fucked your bullshit is.

The more your cracked out nonsense is marginalized, the better it is for myself and the people I love.

"Look deeper, nshanin. Your surface is quick, but your depths are wise."

Yeah yeah, use the Force and whatnot. You're about a deep as a shallow puddle.

Glad to hear you haven't committed yourself to either side, 'Bub - because retarded statements like "atheism encourages hopelessness" points to the fact that you have seriously been misguided in your revelations concerning the range of happiness and inner well-being of atheists.

Why do you assume they wallow in hopelessness, and despair?

Also, where does the fairy tale lie in my beliefs? Please enlighten me. Note that proof of existence would not make all atheists turn on their heels and join the other side.

I'm not assuming they wallow in hopelessness/despair, but proclaiming to the world that after we die there's just nothing... well that's hopeless isn't it, since you have no hope for life after death? How about not putting words in my mouth and misinterpreting my point next time?

The fairy tale is that you blindly believe that there is no God, when there is no evidence whatsoever to indicate that your beliefs are justified.

I'm not assuming they wallow in hopelessness/despair

Really? When you said it was encouraging hopelessness in your first post, and then reiterated it again in your last post - and since hopelessness and despair are often interchangeable - it kinda seemed like you did.

How about not putting words in my mouth and misinterpreting my point next time?

I don't think I put words in your mouth or grossly misinterpreted your point, which was: atheism encourages hopelessness

, but proclaiming to the world that after we die there's just nothing... well that's hopeless isn't it, since you have no hope for life after death?

Remember, it only seems hopeless to those who subscribe to the idea of an afterlife to begin with. Those of us who don't believe in an afterlife and don't expect an afterlife just simply accept the fact that the finality of death is a natural, inevitable event that occurs to all living species, our own included. We don't imagine after death to be any more unpleasant than before birth - we just don't exist. It doesn't seem so terrible and so hopeless when there's not already a pre-conceived expectation of immortality and eternal life swishing about in our heads, which would serve no other purpose than planting a whole lot of wishful thinking tied to the sentimental attachment we have to our love for life.

I don't see how this alleged "hopelessness" could even infect the mindset of a believer in the afterlife, because after all - we're the ones having to deal with the responsibility of holding such views. To a believer, my belief in Nothing-After-Death shouldn't really be a perceived threat to their own hope and faith that the show will go on even after they expire physically. Because after all, it's their very faith and hope and wishful thinking that's going to be their 1-way admission voucher to the Promised Land, right?

The fairy tale is that you blindly believe that there is no God, when there is no evidence whatsoever to indicate that your beliefs are justified.

I never once claimed that my non-belief in God held proof, or overwhelmingly accepted-by-all evidence, now did I? Also, the only other being I feel I need to justify my non-belief to is myself. That aside, why I should I have to stifle my supposed "proclamations of nothingness", while my fairy-tale believing peers have the freedom to espouse their beliefs?

.....proclaiming to the world that after we die there's just nothing... well that's hopeless isn't it, since you have no hope for life after death?.

If I believed I could walk through a mirror and enter a fantasy world where everything was perfect, and I tried to walk through it and found that I could not, I WOULD be depressed and feel hopeless.

If I simply believed the mirror to be a simple mirror and not a doorway....why would I feel depressed and hopless?

Death is the cessation of life. Not only is it impossible to live after death, it is a childish desire and unrealistic.

The burden of proof for the existence of God is on the proclaimer of that existence. Until you prove there is a God, there is not a God. If I claim I have an invisible intangible dragon in my garage that only I can see............is it fair for me to tell YOU to disprove it? Could you? I think not. What has to be done in order to maintain scientific integrity is this: If you make a claim YOU have to back it up, otherwise your claim is nothing. PERIOD.

Now who is living completely in a fairy tale?

Because I find the concept of an all-powerful creator to be beyond absurd. And not only that, but also because all the dominant religions' explanations of humanities relationship with said being are in direct contradiction with empirical evidence.

Atheistm = Fail.
Theism = Fail.

Theism is based upon 'faith', as in; To believe something to be true even though there is nothing to support it.

Atheism is based upon the lack of support for 'faith'.

So both are based on nothing. Thus both are equally retarded.