"Many lies have been told about Satan and his Demons. These lies have been forced upon people and fear has been used as a weapon for hundreds of years. Satan and his Demons are NOT EVIL!! They are the ones who brought knowledge to humanity, so that we can be free. Satan is our True Creator God. The Christian god is false. Christianity is not a religion, it is a program to stop people from knowing about and using the power of their minds (witchcraft). Satan has been treated bad by those who hate him for no good reason and who hate humanity and try to enslave us. They want to keep spiritual knowledge and power in the hands of a few." - www.joyofsatan.com.
I came across this website from youtube, i was watching this banned cartoon which included the angel, satan. If you read the passage it sort of makes sense. People burnt people who practised whichcraft back in ye olde days, so it sort of makes sense. leave comments?

It's as big a pile of bollocks as all the rest of them.

"Demons" are not evil red looking monsters. They may have been depicted that way in art and movies, but they are representations for what people call "Inner demons".
Demons are fears, and they have been depicted as being evil because fears are the main cause (if not the only) of so called evil acts.

Edit: To take it further, Hell is depicted as a place where demons reside. This is true. When a person is full of fear and dread, they are in hell, because their lives are full of "Inner" demons.

Satanism is just as bullshit as Christianity. No matter how much other shit is included in Satanism, Laveyan or other wise, it's still based around a Christian concept.

Satanism also encourages you to be a prick and help yourself, encourages you to make stupid decision, and it seems it's main focus is to oppose Christianity.

Although I back such people up when they're opposing Christianity (Christian fuckers killing off my ancestors for their faith and land and oppressing them for 1000 years). Apart from that Satanism is something most people realise is dumb and grow out of. If you were an Atheist before hand I don't see why you need a book to tell you how to live now.

Satanism is just as bullshit as Christianity. No matter how much other shit is included in Satanism, Laveyan or other wise, it's still based around a Christian concept.

Satanism also encourages you to be a prick and help yourself, encourages you to make stupid decision, and it seems it's main focus is to oppose Christianity.

Although I back such people up when they're opposing Christianity (Christian fuckers killing off my ancestors for their faith and land and oppressing them for 1000 years). Apart from that Satanism is something most people realise is dumb and grow out of. If you were an Atheist before hand I don't see why you need a book to tell you how to live now.


No, it's not a christian concept, I'm sure you'll find many people align themselves with the "religion" (if you can call it a religion) because it is the common name for the set of beliefs, although I find it distasteful assigning it with a name as there can be no real name for an ever changing set of beliefs that are usually determined by the individual thinker.

Ask any intellectual Satanist (a rare delicacy, unfortunately. Something which you won't find at the JoS as the more intelligent steer away from them) and their beliefs will be so complex and incomplete that explaining them to you would be a difficult task indeed.

LaVeyan Satanism (I cannot stress this enough, it is NOT TRUE SATANISM! He has used the name but claiming this is real Satanism is like claiming Scientology is real science, a bullshit claim at best) is the only sect I can think of that encourages you to be a prick.

True Satanism indeed encourages you to help yourself, but not be selfish and discount others, as you need others to be your best and others need you to be their best. And what stupid decision might Satanism encourage?

All in all the aim of Satanism is to advance the human race, which is why it highly opposes religion and militant atheism as all of these things turn father against son, mother against daughter, sibling against sibling and friend against friend thus yanking humanity back with a mighty heave and leaving us to pick ourselves out of the dust to move forward once again. Fortunately this is what we are beginning to do, slowly yes, but we are beginning to do it.


Do not dismiss what you do not understand, Satanism is more complex than people think, which is why real Satanism is usually kept under strict wraps and only those deemed worthy can join their sects...I have much work to do before I am accepted into one of my choosing, if I indeed choose to align myself with one.

Do not dismiss what you do not understand

Good words, and does anyone really understand anything?
What you say here can be applied to anything and everything.

Do not dismiss what you do not understand

I do understand it. I actually own a Satanic bible. I used to be a LaVeyan Satanist. Then I dismissed it.

i practice the occult in my own way... i used to be a laveyan satanist, and i know that the joyofsatan is crap... the whole thing is basically a scam set up by a crazy fat chick and her pedophile/ neo-nazi boyfriend

I do understand it. I actually own a Satanic bible. I used to be a LaVeyan Satanist. Then I dismissed it.

Let me ask you something, have you read why I wrote? I already dismissed LaVeyan Satanism as NOT REAL SATANISM! It's bullshit, do some research on real Satanism. I'd start by having a look at http://www.theisticsatanism.com, Order of the Nine Angles and Temple of the Black Light, read those sites and thus begins your journey of scratching the surface of what it means to be a Satanist.

It's kind of a strange fuzzy feeling when you think about it, supposedly the darkest and evilest one in the universe, is actually on our side, like when a foe becomes a friend. Nothing should prevent us from learning the truth though. I'm just wondering why the leaders want to stop us from learning the truth, is it so they can scare us and brand us as we were sheep? It must be this acquired knowledge that they fear we might one day all possess and overturn those in power for the greater good. Sorry I'm having extreme delusions of grandeur on acid right now.

hmm...ive just read the satanic bible by LeVay and idk i thought it was a decent read, idk really much else about satanism besides that book. i honestly didnt like some of it merely because its has just has random ass(spurious?) attacks at christianity, as in, whilst attempting to read it, it was hard to gather much information through the dribble about the evil and folly of faith....im halfway sure i know this...

anyway, its a decent start if you can get the basics from it, so long as you steer from the prickyness, i always held that mentality that its not to be a dick and shove everyone out of your way, but to just look out for yourself and others that deserve it.

but i see where you can get pricky....:)

and yea, satanism never really was evil. it was....man, it was knowledge, without satan there would be no god, sin, evil, anything, and thats how it was until these christian bastards began stabbing things in the name of the father!!

>:(

anyone know where i can delve more into satanism?

Not interested in a debate, but I am about 90% satanist. I fully agree with the beliefs, besides the whole magic thing.

although i agree with their philosophy, i dont buy into that whole magic and occult stuff

When done properly magic works, unfortunately most of the info about magic has been watered down and made into useless shit via christianity and this new age crap.

Oh and Demunic, try looking at www.joyofsatan.org, it is riddled with crap but there is some useful info there, also look at http://www.theisticsatanism.com, and google Order of the Nine Angles and Temple of the Black Light, although the latter two might be a bit confusing for new comers (as they are designed to be)

When done properly magic works, unfortunately most of the info about magic has been watered down and made into useless shit via christianity and this new age crap.

Magic is slightly more illogical than religion.

That's pretty fucking pathetic.

No, YOU think it's pathetic. But your narrow mind can and will never be able to comprehend what magic is, and whether or not it works unless of course you are on the receiving end of a competent practitioner which I doubt because they would usually not waste their time with people like you.

You are what you hate, you try to put religious people down (although admittedly I don't like religion either) but you are exactly like them. You militant athiests and religious extremists disgust me, you're hypocritical, ignorant, stubborn and arrogant.

Oh and by the way, I GUARANTEE that real magic is completely different from the view you hold of it. But you wouldn't bother to do some research about it would you, because you're nice and comfortable sitting at home doing nothing at all but sitting on totse and the internet thinking you're superior to everyone else.

And if you do decide to do some research about real magic, just to try to prove me wrong...don't look on the internet, you'll find nothing but crap. You have to do some real looking in bookstores, and not the mainstream bookstores, you have to look in the old bookstores no one goes into.

EDIT: Oh and before you ask, yes I have used magic to win money, from a scratchy. $1500 to be exact, and it couldn't of been luck 'cos I did it three times in a row ($500 each). And again, before you ask "Why don't you use magic to win the lottery?" it's because I prefer to work for my money, it's more rewarding and you learn more from it.

EDIT: Oh and before you ask, yes I have used magic to win money, from a scratchy. $1500 to be exact, and it couldn't of been luck 'cos I did it three times in a row ($500 each). And again, before you ask "Why don't you use magic to win the lottery?" it's because I prefer to work for my money, it's more rewarding and you learn more from it.

Wow, I must be a magician too. I was absolutely on fire last year at the horse track. I just couldn't lose!

True story ^

Yeah the magic side of things just makes it a little less believable, but the rest of the philosophy is sound, and in my opinion, a far better way of living than Christianity.

Magic is slightly more illogical than religion.

Umm... how so?

They both involve putting faith in the supernatural.

And there are a lot of dumbasses who believe that their prayers are being heard by some god.

You're telling me that's not just as delusional?

Umm... how so?

They both involve putting faith in the supernatural.

And there are a lot of dumbasses who believe that their prayers are being heard by some god.

You're telling me that's not just as delusional?

QFMFT

Umm... how so?

They both involve putting faith in the supernatural.

And there are a lot of dumbasses who believe that their prayers are being heard by some god.

You're telling me that's not just as delusional?

Just by personal experience. A lot of luck is more likely than a violation of the laws of physics. Theists don't tend to ask God to change the nature of reality.

And silverwolf, I'm not a militant atheist, I'm more of a "convenience atheist". I'll make a thread defining it sometime soon.

Just by personal experience. A lot of luck is more likely than a violation of the laws of physics. Theists don't tend to ask God to change the nature of reality.

I'm pretty sure that things like a virgin being impregnated by an invisible being are a HUGE change in the nature of reality. I'm sure you don't need me to mention any other examples such as this one, but if for some reason you do, I'm just going to have to refer you to the Bible.

And secondly, a lot of prayers are in fact based on requests to change reality. Many forms of prayer are in fact almost indistinguishable from certain forms of magic by definition.

Ex: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_and_religion#Religious_practices_and_Magic
Ex: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_mysticism

I'm pretty sure that things like a virgin being impregnated by an invisible being are a HUGE change in the nature of reality. I'm sure you don't need me to mention any other examples such as this one, but if for some reason you do, I'm just going to have to refer you to the Bible.

"Franky Four Fingers: So the biblical scholars mis-translated the Hebrew word for "young woman" into the Greek word for "virgin," which was a pretty easy mistake to make, since there is only a subtle difference in the spelling. But back then it was the "virgin" that caught people's attention. It's not every day a virgin conceives and bears a son. So you keep that for a couple of hundred years, and the next thing you know, you have the Roman Catholic church. " - quote from the movie "snatch"

"Franky Four Fingers: So the biblical scholars mis-translated the Hebrew word for "young woman" into the Greek word for "virgin," which was a pretty easy mistake to make, since there is only a subtle difference in the spelling. But back then it was the "virgin" that caught people's attention. It's not every day a virgin conceives and bears a son. So you keep that for a couple of hundred years, and the next thing you know, you have the Roman Catholic church. " - quote from the movie "snatch"

I'm surprised I haven't seen that movie yet. I've been meaning to...

Anyway, yeah, my personal take on it is that if she even did give birth to the infamous JC, she was probably just cheating on Joseph and didn't want to look like the town slut, so she came up with the first excuse that popped into her head.

Joseph was just too gullible and trusting to question it...

I bet a lot of the townspeople had a good laugh at his expense. Poor guy...

I'm pretty sure that things like a virgin being impregnated by an invisible being are a HUGE change in the nature of reality. I'm sure you don't need me to mention any other examples such as this one, but if for some reason you do, I'm just going to have to refer you to the Bible.

And secondly, a lot of prayers are in fact based on requests to change reality. Many forms of prayer are in fact almost indistinguishable from certain forms of magic by definition.

Ex: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_and_religion#Religious_practices_and_Magic
Ex: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_mysticism

Religion=/=Christianity

Know it.

Religion=/=Christianity

Know it.

Way to circumvent the main point.

Anyway, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all have ties to the same basis.

You're trying to tell me that the Abrahamic religions don't make up the vast majority of organized religion?

Anyway, I don't know why I'm explaining this to you, as the point is apparently already lost on you.

Oh, and the fact that you're reaching for exceptions to the rule shows that I was originally correct.

Way to circumvent the main point.

Anyway, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all have ties to the same basis.

You're trying to tell me that the Abrahamic religions don't make up the vast majority of organized religion?

Anyway, I don't know why I'm explaining this to you, as the point is apparently already lost on you.

Oh, and the fact that you're reaching for exceptions to the rule shows that I was originally correct.

You don't need to believe the Bible word for word to be a Christian. Yes most do, but the point is I said "religion", and so the definition is up to me.

It's too bad your stereotypes blind you to the fact that most theists truly aren't insane and don't ask for something they know God won't give them.

Circumventing the main point? You threw out my whole argument and made an attack against Christianity.

It's too bad your stereotypes blind you to the fact that most theists truly aren't insane and don't ask for something they know God won't give them.

They expect to get into Heaven...

How is that any more realistic than someone believing in magic?

I just can't see a difference.

All faith involves a belief in the supernatural.

You are the one who is blinded by stereotypes, since you must be associating magic with what you see in movies and on TV...

They expect to get into Heaven...

How is that any more realistic than someone believing in magic?

I just can't see a difference.
How do you know there isn't a heaven? I know magic isn't real because it would violate the laws of reality. So would heaven because it would require the idea of a soul to be true, but one's certainly more believable than the other.

All faith involves a belief in the supernatural.

You are the one who is blinded by stereotypes, since you must be associating magic with what you see in movies and on TV...

I know what magic is. You however look at theism and see evangelical Christians when that's not the case. Faith in a God isn't as great a leap as faith in magic. (unless of course you misdefine God)

How do you know there isn't a heaven? I know magic isn't real because it would violate the laws of reality. So would heaven because it would require the idea of a soul to be true, but one's certainly more believable than the other.

Not it isn't! They're both equally ridiculous...

If you can't see that, then you may need to get your head checked. Either that, or you just need to really think hard about it until you see that they are the exact same thing.

I know what magic is. You however look at theism and see evangelical Christians when that's not the case. Faith in a God isn't as great a leap as faith in magic. (unless of course you misdefine God)

Evangelical Christians? They all believe in heaven and follow the "Good book". Jews and Muslims have equally asinine beliefs and traditions.

Stop putting words in my mouth or trying to alter my arguments.

Not it isn't! They're both equally ridiculous...

If you can't see that, then you may need to get your head checked. Either that, or you just need to really think hard about it until you see that they are the exact same thing.

Evangelical Christians? They all believe in heaven and follow the "Good book". Jews and Muslims have equally asinine beliefs and traditions.

Stop putting words in my mouth or trying to alter my arguments.
I'll say it again: Theism=/=what you normally consider to be religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/pantheism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/deism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism

And plenty of other theisms that don't fit your vague yet restrictive definitions.

I'm done here, stay with atheism if you like, but don't be like the radicals and blind yourself to all else.

I'm done here, stay with atheism if you like, but don't be like the radicals and blind yourself to all else.

It's kind of ironic you should say that...

I mean, have you actually read a decent translation of the Tao te Ching in full?

Taoism isn't exactly a religion in the traditional sense.

What sets a religion apart from a philosophy or way of life is typically the whole faith aspect. And faith requires a belief in what cannot be proven, just like magic.

So your initial comment that magic is somehow more illogical than religion is quite obviously false.

It's kind of ironic you should say that...

I mean, have you actually read a decent translation of the Tao te Ching in full?

Taoism isn't exactly a religion in the traditional sense.

What sets a religion apart from a philosophy or way of life is typically the whole faith aspect. And faith requires a belief in what cannot be proven, just like magic.

So your initial comment that magic is somehow more illogical than religion is quite obviously false.

I have read the tao te ching actually, I didn't want to argue semantics so I stated it in the broadest form.

What you're saying is akin to saying apples are fruits, so are oranges, therefore they're the same. The definition of both goes a big farther than just fruits, and there's more to magic and theism than faith.

What you're saying is akin to saying apples are fruits, so are oranges, therefore they're the same. The definition of both goes a big farther than just fruits, and there's more to magic and theism than faith.

Not quite...

In fact, you are the one who made the blanket statement that:

Magic is slightly more illogical than religion.

That's pretty fucking pathetic.

So, naturally, I had to point out that magic is no more illogical than religion, if we look at them both the way that most people look at them.

People have a general view of what magic and religion mean. I was using those terms for the sake of the argument. Then you started fishing for abstract examples.

Anyway, point being that: Magic is not more illogical than religion.

just think about this...
does magic have to be supernatural, im an atheist and i practice magic, it has nothing to do with gods and whatnot, it might just not be explained yet.
and for all i know it fits in with most laws of physics it just is not explained directly. most people are just grouping magic with gods and that is what makes it bullshit.
if you forget about the "mystical" parts and just think about it from a scientific perspective it makes sense

To the guy who was on fire at the horse races, if you didn't do anything to do that, then it was more than likely luck. Now I'm not denying my winning streak wasn't luck, it may very well could of been, but experience tells me otherwise.

Faith in magic? When has magic EVER been about faith? It's not faith, nor do I think it's a violation of the laws of physics or anything to do with the "supernatural"

Take, for example, magnetism/electricity and radiation. If you went back in time, got a magnet and made a sword float in the air and tried to explain to them the laws, guess what would happen, they would have destroyed the magnet you used (assumed an instrument of magic), you would have been deemed a witch and then hanged. Same goes for the other 2 fundamental forces. Just because we can't explain something, does NOT mean it doesn't exist.

You've got your understanding of magic all wrong, we only call it magic 'cos there is no other word for it, and yes I understand it sounds like hocus pocus bullshit but it's not. I would explain it to you but I don't have the time or the will to do that.

Just because we can't explain something, does NOT mean it doesn't exist.

Just because God can't be proven to exist doesn't mean he isn't real!

Just because God can't be proven to exist doesn't mean he isn't real!

touche lol
Although that is like saying that i have an invisible astral dragon that sits on my desk and can breath fire, but a magick fire that doesnt burn its just spiritual. disprove that bitches

People burnt people who practised whichcraft back in ye olde days, so it sort of makes sense. leave comments?

I will ignore you lack of knowledge of the English language, and answer you.

People who were burnt at the stake were often social outliers, and the unwanted. For instance, Jews in Europe have always been mistreated and have a stigma about them, so they were burned. Old widows in the New World's Puritanical communities were often accused of witchcraft, and burned. There are two main theses about why this happened. One, they were used as scapegoats, to make the public feel better about the hard times it was experiencing, or it was a bacterium similar to LSD (see below), that drove the accusers to accuse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claviceps_purpurea

HAhahahaha, also many of the links on that page lead to profit seeking websites.

Just because God can't be proven to exist doesn't mean he isn't real!
exactly but it does not mean he is real...
god in christianity cannot be expierienced at all but magic can be felt and noticed.
its also a big jump from, there is a force we cant explain, to, there is an invisible man in the clouds that decides what we do and when we do it but we have free will and if we misuse that he punishes us with burning torment in brackish pits till the end of time... but he loves us.


and for the record i believe in god, the devil, barry manilow, wookies, and everything else ever thought up because in some way by us thinking of them and spending time creating them they are real in their own way

god in christianity cannot be expierienced at all but magic can be felt and noticed.
Nobody said shit about Christianity, but even if they did, you can notice and feel non-Christian gods just as you can notice and feel a Chritian God. I could just as easily say that magic can't be felt, but then I'd be ignoring all the people who do feel it. That's what you're doing by making that blanket statement. There are many Christians and non-Christians alike who feel God. Just because you can't feel it doesn't mean other people don't. My sister is one, for example.

Oh and by the way, feeling something is not an objective justification for that something's existence. For many people it is enough to feel it emotionally and that is their decision.

its also a big jump from, there is a force we cant explain, to, there is an invisible man in the clouds that decides what we do and when we do it but we have free will and if we misuse that he punishes us with burning torment in brackish pits till the end of time... but he loves us.
Again, not all religion is Christian, and if it was, there are plenty of interpretations that don't say that God 'lives in the clouds', and plenty more that say hell isn't real.

I will guarantee you that there are Christians that view God as an unexplainable force and don't take everything they read seriously.

im only using christianity just for the sake of this arguement and what i meant was that if you ask anyone who uses magic they will tell you they get results whether the results are coinsedence or magic is for you to decide but when someone talks about god they believe he is real and probly only a handfull of people will tell you that god has performed a miracle for them or whatever...
again im only using christianity because its most widely used

When done properly magic works, unfortunately most of the info about magic has been watered down and made into useless shit via christianity and this new age crap.
Can you tell me more about this? I'm not looking to debate with or refute you; rather, I have devoted a lot of time and effort in looking up and learning about various magical traditions/ideas. Unfortunately, most have fallen into two categories:

1. The useless type - i.e., most of the Wiccan sort. "This spell brings positive energy." Well maybe it does, but there's no way to tell, and I'm not sure if I'd even want to bother doing that anyway.
2. The unconfirmed type. This is slightly more rare, but still out there. A page or person will claim that you will be able to, say, levitate, or summon a lightning bolt, or even just spin a hanging object - but when you look into it more closely, no one seems to have actually done this. A good example is "Tomekeeper's" site - he has all sorts of wonderful promises, but when I asked on the forums no one had managed to bring any of them about. They kind of hemmed and hawed and suggested that lightning bolts were not, in fact, what magic was all about. Maybe not; but again, if you can't even move a piece of lint then I'm not sure how I'm supposed to confirm or deny your claims.

Not that that's my main goal, don't be misled. I'm a skeptic, but I'd really like "magic" to be real. It opens up so many possibilities. It'd be truly amazing. The only reason I'm concerned with confirming claims is because I don't want to spend a year of my life staring at a piece of lint every day only to finally realize that it ain't gonna move. :p

So, my question is: what have you done with magic? What have you heard of being done?

Thanks a lot for any time you might spare. :)

Oh and Demunic, try looking at www.joyofsatan.org, it is riddled with crap but there is some useful info there, also look at http://www.theisticsatanism.com, and google Order of the Nine Angles and Temple of the Black Light, although the latter two might be a bit confusing for new comers (as they are designed to be)
Indeed, the most visible semi-public group that has outright advocated violent criminal activity in the name of Satan, the Order of the Nine Angles, called themselves "Satanists" and poured contempt on the idea of "worship" as fervently as any LaVeyan.
:eek:

To the guy who was on fire at the horse races, if you didn't do anything to do that, then it was more than likely luck. Now I'm not denying my winning streak wasn't luck, it may very well could of been, but experience tells me otherwise.

Faith in magic? When has magic EVER been about faith? It's not faith, nor do I think it's a violation of the laws of physics or anything to do with the "supernatural"

Take, for example, magnetism/electricity and radiation. If you went back in time, got a magnet and made a sword float in the air and tried to explain to them the laws, guess what would happen, they would have destroyed the magnet you used (assumed an instrument of magic), you would have been deemed a witch and then hanged. Same goes for the other 2 fundamental forces. Just because we can't explain something, does NOT mean it doesn't exist.

You've got your understanding of magic all wrong, we only call it magic 'cos there is no other word for it, and yes I understand it sounds like hocus pocus bullshit but it's not. I would explain it to you but I don't have the time or the will to do that.


This echoes my views, and so I've quoted it.

exactly but it does not mean he is real...
god in christianity cannot be expierienced at all but magic can be felt and noticed.
its also a big jump from, there is a force we cant explain, to, there is an invisible man in the clouds that decides what we do and when we do it but we have free will and if we misuse that he punishes us with burning torment in brackish pits till the end of time... but he loves us.


and for the record i believe in god, the devil, barry manilow, wookies, and everything else ever thought up because in some way by us thinking of them and spending time creating them they are real in their own way


teehee

southpark :P


anyway, i myself, dont think magick is real in how most people view it-dancing around and then producing fire/rain/etc- and instead view it as a channel of energy between unknown forces, how it works and where it comes from, no one knows. But hey, as someone implied, if you took a magnet, picked something up, people would call it a wand, and you would either be shunned or praised. people are stupid and dont know as much as they let on, theres still VERY MUCH information that we are un-aware of and the best we can do is close our eyes and hope something happens.

and going on about the tiny semantics is going to get you guys no where. either way you put it, Magick is ALOT different than faith. in magick, shit happens, as someone said, we get results, and we are either praised for it, or more than likely flamed. in Faith, well, people just look up at something and think hey something has to be controlling this all, its not really about results or feeling anything, its about someone thinking theres something part of them and portraying it as a all-mighty or even semi-mighty sentient being that explains everything and gives them something to hope for, thats all there results, hope and as many have found out, through positive thinking and affirmative action things we hope for can happen and somehow in a way faith turns into a form of Magick, its just a different way of expressing it.

is this specific enough to end this pointless feud?

i myself believe there is no god but powerful forces that cannot be explained that we are somehow able to manipulate. I dont need a god because i understand that no matter what, the best you can ever do is hope for a better outcome and i dont need any mighty being to tell me this, i am above that and i understand fully that more than likely the world doesnt give a damn what my outcome is and thus i must manipulate whatever i can to help work for me, be it through magick or through positive action and thought.


moo

[QUOTE=Twisted_Ferret;9367018]
So, my question is: what have you done with magic? What have you heard of being done?
QUOTE]

with meditation and practice for about 2 weeks i was able to swing a pendulum

i cursed someone and they slipped on the ice and broke their wrist withing 5 days (coincidence?)


but most of what you said is true for most forms of magic, because alot of magic is just crap that either doesnt work or does nothing to begin with

with meditation and practice for about 2 weeks i was able to swing a pendulum

i cursed someone and they slipped on the ice and broke their wrist withing 5 days (coincidence?)

Oh come on... Do you really believe this!?

My guess about the pendulum was that you were focusing on it for so long that your mind tricked itself into thinking it moved. Kinda like a placebo. Either that or a sudden gust of wind..?

I hope you realize that there is a $1,000,000 USD reward available for anyone that can prove that any form of supernatural force is possible...

And about the broken wrist & curse thing... I don't really think I need to mention what is so far fetched with that one.

Honestly, I think you're just as delusional as any Theist...

ok you can think that if you want... no one is stopping you

Alright, fine, you don't have to agree with whatever I stated as my own opinion. But, I would really like to hear what you have to say about this:

I hope you realize that there is a $1,000,000 USD reward available for anyone that can prove that any form of supernatural force is possible...

Why aren't you (or anyone for that matter) a millionaire yet, thanks to this offer?

I know that if I had some kind of ability that could earn me an instant million dollars, I'd be on that offer so fucking fast.

http://www.randi.org/research/index.html

im only using christianity just for the sake of this arguement and what i meant was that if you ask anyone who uses magic they will tell you they get results whether the results are coinsedence or magic is for you to decide but when someone talks about god they believe he is real and probly only a handfull of people will tell you that god has performed a miracle for them or whatever...
again im only using christianity because its most widely used

Newsweek carried the result of that news magazine's poll that stated 84 percent of American adults said they believe that God performs miracles and 48 percent claimed to have witnessed one.

Source: http://www.unexplainedstuff.com/Religious-Phenomena/Miracles.html

FAIL.

First off, Twisted_Ferret, go to all those sites I've posted, yes ONA and Temple of the Black Light DO encourage you to make blood sacrifice, even human sacrifice but there is still some good information there.

Joy of Satan has some good meditations and stuff to get started but none of the magic side of things from that site has produced any decent results for me, I think the best thing to do is do a lot of research and practice and alter things until it works for you.

Again, as I said before, most of the stuff on the internet is utter SHIT, you're much better off going to a bookstore that no one goes into, one that has old second hand books and even then you'll find numerous amounts of shit. It takes years of research and fiddling around to actually produce some good results, which is probably why most people try magic, expect it to work the first time with whatever they found on the internet and when it doesn't work they have a teary and give up.


Oh and that Million Dollar thing, I know people who've applied for that and guess what? They got knocked back, it seems this group doesn't take just anybody so how do they expect to get someone to prove anything when they pick and choose who applies? In order to prove anything they have to accept EVERYBODY that applies. Oh and even if someone does get accepted, who's to say that they prove something but then the people running it won't say "That's bullshit, no million dollars, fuck off"?

STFU, acolyte

Oh and that Million Dollar thing, I know people who've applied for that and guess what? They got knocked back, it seems this group doesn't take just anybody so how do they expect to get someone to prove anything when they pick and choose who applies?

Is it possible to send in a video with your application? They might be quicker to accept it if that's the case.

In order to prove anything they have to accept EVERYBODY that applies. Oh and even if someone does get accepted, who's to say that they prove something but then the people running it won't say "That's bullshit, no million dollars, fuck off"?

I'm pretty sure that anyone who's been through it, and was successful with the testing, would be making a huge fuss with the media.

Plus, the witnesses that are there at the time of testing and observation would probably come forward... I mean, supernatural powers are fucking HUGE news. People love that shit. The masses would eat it up. I mean, fuck, I'd be pretty damn curious myself.

They have released the results from at least some, if not all, of their testings. And, of course, no one has passed.

STFU, acolyte

Now why are you telling me to shut the fuck up? What have I done? Hmm?

They have released the results from at least some, if not all, of their testings. And, of course, no one has passed.

Probably because they don't accept just anybody, and I don't know if you can send a video in, maybe I'll try it when I'm older and have finished my studies.


Twisted_Ferret, forgot to answer your other question.

What I have done...hmm, money (as I said before), I've helped heal various cuts quicker...the biggest thing I've done was to suspend my necklace in the air for about 2 seconds before I realized what I did and shat myself in disbelief because I didn't expect to do it. Never been able to do it again, hopefully with more practice I will be able to get into the state of mind to be able to concentrate that hard and do something similar.

What I've heard of, igniting gas on fire and burning someone's hair, being able to get more women, screwing up electronics (mobile phones more precisely)...various other things that I can't recall at the moment.

Ahh yes... Magick (http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Amagick&sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rls=DVFA,DVFA:1970--2,DVFA:en&aq=t).
I read the satanic bible back in 10th grade, thought the main idea of it was interesting, somewhat like Aleister Crowley's (http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/) saying "Do what thou wilt (http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib2.html)."

Didn't look much into satanism after that but the humanistic idea stuck with me.
Around 11th grade I started looking into necromancy (can't find the website right now) and began forming a bond with death/creation. Don't really want to talk about it right now.

During this time and through 12th grade my understanding of the mind, the quantum world, and structure of reality increased. Study of the runes helped with this understanding, an important roll in effective use of magick is an understanding (http://www.divinecosmos.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=section&id=4&Itemid=30)of the Science of Oneness (http://www.divinecosmos.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=6&id=19&Itemid=36).

I eventually stumbled across this (http://www.divinecosmos.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13)article by David Wilcock and started me down the path of ascension. Some time later I bought the book Ascension Magick by Christopher Penczak and (among many things) began to understand how all aspects of reality can be put into colors (http://www.thelotus.org/7rays.html). But enough of that for now.

If you wish to make a spell it must consist of these three ingredients:
1. Altering Consciousness
2. Focusing Will
3. Directing Energy
People like to use colors/symbols/elements/Chakras/planets/entities/words to help their minds connect with their intention. No two magicians are the same and their are many techniques, just look into different ideas and form your own way of practice.