1: Hear
2: feel
3: Taste
4: See
5: Feel

Edit: Bonus option: Be

1. fail
2. fail
3. fail
4. fail
5. fail

Done. Now what? I didn't experience anything out of the ordinary. :confused:

Done. Now what? I didn't experience anything out of the ordinary. :confused:

maybe that's the point...I'm not sure.

If that's the point, then there is no point. Redefining "god" into existence isn't a feat worth mentioning.

probably not, isn't that what Abrahim continuously asserted?

or that existence existed "inside" of "god?"

If that's the point, then there is no point. Redefining "god" into existence isn't a feat worth mentioning.

Indeed, though it's kind of funny watching these people try to be "deep." Perhaps theists are the permanent emo kids of the world?

I think the point here is that God is neither an invisible friend in the sky, or Santa Claus with wings, or something equally limiting.

God is not an entity per se, but the sum total of everything, including us--which is what Jesus was hinting at when he said "The kingdom of God is within you." God is the infinite, intelligent, creative force that connects us all with everything else, and can be experienced in many ways.

I think the point here is that God is neither an invisible friend in the sky, or Santa Claus with wings, or something equally limiting.

God is not an entity per se, but the sum total of everything, including us--which is what Jesus was hinting at when he said "The kingdom of God is within you." God is the infinite, intelligent, creative force that connects us all with everything else, and can be experienced in many ways.

Please provide evidence that this "connecting force" exists.

Be

Nailed it. I would say the others are the purpose of existence.

Looks like the usual gang o' atheists are still pleased by their misconception of God.

God is not an entity per se, but the sum total of everything, including us

If god is everything, then you've just created a new word for "everything". That is a meaningless feat.

It doesn't help me in anything. There is no real difference between believing that "god is everything" and atheism.

If god is everything, then you've just created a new word for "everything". That is a meaningless feat.


The fete is that by realising god and everything is the same thing you can then realise that all the spiritual teachings of Jesus, Buddha, etc are teachings about life.
By pay attention to life more closely IE: To stop spending so much time in your head and actually paying full attention to life, you'll start to relate more to these teachings. Suddenly they don't seem so much like a fairytale.


It doesn't help me in anything. There is no real difference between believing that "god is everything" and atheism.

Although if you understand that God is everything, and you believe in everything, you are in effect... a theist :)

By pay attention to life more closely IE: To stop spending so much time in your head and actually paying full attention to life, you'll start to relate more to these teachings. Suddenly they don't seem so much like a fairytale.

Yes. If we take what you say as true, they would be teachings of life.

The problem still is that you have not proven what you say is true, and you haven't proven that those "life teachings" are any more correct than other "life teachings". In short, you'd still haven't shown that what you say is true, or why I should care if it is!



Although if you understand that God is everything, and you believe in everything, you are in effect... a theist :)

And if we define "god" to mean "Pizza" I would be a theist too because I fucking love Pizza. That doesn't change the fact that both would be meaningless, trivial and uninteresting feats.

Aren't you one of those that say that we need some "bad" in order to appreciate and differentiate the good? The same applies here. Again, if "god" is everything, then he's nothing. You've rendered him and theism as a whole, meaningless.

You're not even trying are you?

I don't understand? I can disagree with what you say?

I just get the impression you immediately direct your mental energy thinking of a counter argument rather than pondering where I'm coming from. That's your choice obviously.

I just get the impression you immediately direct your mental energy thinking of a counter argument rather than pondering where I'm coming from. That's your choice obviously.

Well you're getting the wrong impression. I pondered what you said, and I saw many flaws with it so I pointed them out. Could you please answer them?

If you can see something I haven't thought or "pondered" about, then go ahead and point it out. But please, also answer the problems. Claiming that I'm "not trying anymore" as if you had any clue what I've pondered or what I haven't is not only insulting, but it gives off the impression that your beliefs are so wrong you can't even answer simple problems about them and instead provide some one-liners to avoid the valid criticism.

Okay well I'm not going to answer the flaws you spoke of. No offense, but the back and forth debating would probably go on for ages and I'm really not interested in the type of debates I often see you having (Again no offense) so I'm gonna save us both the time.

That's unfortunate then. You want people to 'quest for knowledge' but then you don't help them make sense of it by participating in a discussion.

Ok, OP, just because you were born with a faulty brain that gives you a big juicy endorphin shot every time you take a breath doesn't prove that god exists. Most people, have become tired and bored of a common life, and for me, none of the things you suggested so much as hinted at divinity.

Now, this is just me, but I've done the whole science thing, so seeing the laws of physics, the basics of chemistry, and simple biology fail to phase me anymore. By the time you're done highschool, if you still have a sense of wonder you are one of the lucky few who just don't learn. I would be jealous if I can't see you repeating the same mistakes and never learning from them for the rest of your life.

This proving, that I am a young man who is far ahead of his time in the bitter and jaded category. I am still not an atheist. I'm a buddhistic agnostodeist. So I am a deist agnostic who leans heavily towards buddhism, so I am far in lacking spirituality. I've done the whole theology thing, and I can tell you one thing, if there is anything you have to learn it is everything.

I think the point here is that God is neither an invisible friend in the sky, or Santa Claus with wings, or something equally limiting.
I just thought of something - who thinks He is? :confused: Aside from little kids. The point that God isn't a big man with a bigger beard sitting on a cloud is made many times to... no one that I've ever seen post, or even ever talked with. I mean, if you believe in God surely you must realize that God is everywhere and so forth.

Although... thinking of the Christians I know, maybe not. :(

1. Drop acid.
2. ?????
3. ?????
4. Profit!

Please provide evidence that this "connecting force" exists.

Gravity is one connecting force; it has an infinite reach and binds every last bit of matter to every other bit of matter. Every object in existence affects every other object in existence. We can't see it, we can't feel it, we just know it's there because of its side effects.

Spirit is the same; it has an infinite reach and binds every last soul to every other soul. Every form of conscience affects every other conscience. We can't see it, we can't feel it, we just know it's there because of its side effects.

Gravity binds matter. Spirit binds souls.

For clarification: This is not provided as evidence of a spiritual connecting force...if you think the explanations available in science adequately explain the conditions of conscience and consciousness, cool...but no amount of non-spiritual aid was able to spare my life and provide a truly enjoyable way of life for me. God did for me what no man could.

I thought this thread was going to be about shrooms.

Atheism rocks.

Gravity is one connecting force; it has an infinite reach and binds every last bit of matter to every other bit of matter. Every object in existence affects every other object in existence. We can't see it, we can't feel it, we just know it's there because of its side effects.

Spirit is the same; it has an infinite reach and binds every last soul to every other soul. Every form of conscience affects every other conscience. We can't see it, we can't feel it, we just know it's there because of its side effects.

Gravity binds matter. Spirit binds souls.

For clarification: This is not provided as evidence of a spiritual connecting force...if you think the explanations available in science adequately explain the conditions of conscience and consciousness, cool...but no amount of non-spiritual aid was able to spare my life and provide a truly enjoyable way of life for me. God did for me what no man could.

Gravity is the effect of matter distorting space and has a very limited reach. Gravity is only effective when space is distorted by extremely massive objects, or extremely dense objects.

Haha No. To be outside of an objects gravitational field you have to be an infinite distance away. My gravity affects you and I'm only 95kg. My gravity affects every particle in space, most negligibly so, but affects none the less, so does yours. So does a single atom.

Haha No. To be outside of an objects gravitational field you have to be an infinite distance away. My gravity affects you and I'm only 95kg. My gravity affects every particle in space, most negligibly so, but affects none the less, so does yours. So does a single atom.

Domo. Gravity has a limitless reach, though its effect is exponentially weakened as the distance is increased. Something like (m1-m2)G/d^2 to calculate gravitational attraction (probably not the actual formula...but it's been 5 years since I've studied physics, so pardon that). At no point though will even the smallest piece of matter not influence the largest piece of matter.

Spirit, also, works like that. The further you distance yourself from the Spirit, the less power it can give to your life. Your ability to work traits like Love, Compassion, Forgiveness, and so on practically disappear if you continually chase YOUR desires rather than live the Way.

The further you distance yourself from the Spirit, the less power it can give to your life. Your ability to work traits like Love, Compassion, Forgiveness, and so on practically disappear if you continually chase YOUR desires rather than live the Way.

That's bullshit, Hex. Love, compassion and forgiveness isn't something on loan from God. Every human being, regardless of what they worship or not, have the capacity for all three.

Sure, if you do nothing but chase your own trivial desires and don't try to affect other people with the same kindness you would appreciate in return, then your life would be a miserable existence, absent of loving human relationships. But to think that these traits are absent, or non-genuine ... or even subject to disappear altogether in those who don't walk with God - is false.

I really hate to say this, but the only time I have ever had a truly epiphany-like religious experience was when I was on psilocybin (psychadelic mushrooms).

But I have always had a weird feeling that there's something more than just us, some kind of other force, I just don't know what it is. But, this is a subjuct that I'm perfectly happy to be confused with.

why does god need to exist to experience any of this? Fuck, I mean if you want god, take probability. The odds of any event happening are infinitesimally small the fact that from these infinite probabilities somehow a fully functional completely consistent model emerged is enough to boggle anyone.

But maybe god is none of these things? What proof do you have? You're ignorant mortal coil seems convinced, but are you going to trust some byproduct of this inevitable divinity. Man, if I was confined to being a child of god, I wouldn't trust a damn thing I thought. As an organism that has evolved against all odds, I trust my logic and reason because it has kept me and my species alive, all logic states that god doesn't exist, it's only when you throw yourself into primitive situations like extreme grief loss or pain does god make sense.

That's bullshit, Hex. Love, compassion and forgiveness isn't something on loan from God. Every human being, regardless of what they worship or not, have the capacity for all three.

Sure, if you do nothing but chase your own trivial desires and don't try to affect other people with the same kindness you would appreciate in return, then your life would be a miserable existence, absent of loving human relationships. But to think that these traits are absent, or non-genuine ... or even subject to disappear altogether in those who don't walk with God - is false.

Nope, not false. You're limiting the understanding of a 'walk with God'. If you cast aside even one of your desires in the favor of doing a selfless act, you are maintaining a relationship with Love...as dysfunctional as it might be. We suffer because we try to obtain by self that which can only be given by Love. Femme, you may not call God 'God' due to a lack of awareness of it being a consciousness greater than your own...but it's quite apparent to me now that you do in fact have a rather healthy relationship with It. You know that your connection to it resides deep within yourself, and you're able to reach there in order to put it to use. For myself, It had to reveal its Consciousness and Infinite Being to me when I sought help in my life in order for me to even know it was there: I thought life to be nothing but a rat race. My entire consciousness was set on self desire...I couldn't reach into myself to find Power any more than a rock could.

If you utilize it without even knowing as much of its identity as I do, that's truly wonderful. You have a beautiful relationship with it through experiencing it...you needn't know its name or the full extent of it to know it's there and to use it. As odd as this may sound to someone who considers themselves agnostic, you have a stronger faith in Faith than I did.

I needed to know its name and the extent of its power in order to know it was there and could be utilized, so it showed me Itself and revealed much of its Identity (probably as much as I am capable of wrapping my noggin around :)).

Its second highest and highest names, in English, and said in the most frightening Voice I've ever heard in my existence, are thus:
I Am The One True God, I Am Who I Am. Its identity is that of Infinity - all of its traits are absolutely limitless and unblemished. This being why I'm an OT believer: the name YodHehWawHeh of the TNK translates roughly to I Am Who I Am.

So long as you know that you need the Presence that exists deep within you to be selfless, you are walking with God.

I Am The One True God, I Am Who I Am. Its identity is that of Infinity - all of its traits are absolutely limitless

Yep, thats God.

Nope, not false. You're limiting the understanding of a 'walk with God'. If you cast aside even one of your desires in the favor of doing a selfless act, you are maintaining a relationship with Love...as dysfunctional as it might be. We suffer because we try to obtain by self that which can only be given by Love.

....


Its second highest and highest names, in English, and said in the most frightening Voice I've ever heard in my existence,

..........


So long as you know that you need the Presence that exists deep within you to be selfless, you are walking with God.

Hexadecimal, a question. You assert that God is Love and yet find 'a' "Voice"(apparently God's?) "frightening. If God is Love, why are you frightened? Surely "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.
1 John 4:17-19"

Namaste:)

1: Hear
2: feel
3: Taste
4: See
5: Feel

Edit: Bonus option: Be

Beany what you are describing reminds me of a teaching of Krishnamurti: If one directs all one's immediate attention to the input of all senses in the one present moment, then thought stops and one experiences an awareness, an awarenes many describe as being the "presence". Words obviously fail to describe an experience had when thought is absent as it needs thought to form words, however; as a means to experience 'God' sometimes described as a 'presence'(see David Hawkins book Power vs Force for an example) meditation on the senses is without peer in my experience. Is this what you are driving at?

Peace:)

Hex, aren't you an admitted former junkie and rapist who had problems with child porn?

I am just asking b/c you may be projecting your own miserable failings at being a human being onto everyone else. You seem to be saying that without God and when one concentrates on their own desires their lives become absent of love and caring meaningful relationships.

This is most definitely true for YOU, but not for everyone else. If you turned from God you would probably pick up a crack pipe and rape children or something. This is b/c you are a weak human being to begin with. Theism has given you strength only b/c you are weak willed and emotionally crippled.

Don't project your bullshit at me b/c you failed at being a human and had to turn to fantasylands and imaginary friends to cope with it. That is all I am saying.

^ You must be fairly miserable yourself to display as harsh an attitude as that.

^ You must be fairly miserable yourself to display as harsh an attitude as that.

Not at all...

I obviously do not forgive rapists and exploiters of children as easily as you CHOOSE to. What in that suggests I am miserable?

Would you let him watch your kids and have faith God has changed him?

Did not fucking think so. Come down from waaaaaaay up there now.

Come down from waaaaaaay up there now.

Hex could say the same to words to you.

Hex could say the same to words to you.

Why would he? Would it go something like this...

"Don't get all high an mighty Broke, just b/c you have not RAPED another human being or jerked off to a little child abuse."

As opposed to my...

"If I am harsh it is b/c I am honest in my not forgiving a child exploiter and rapist so easily as you. What you don't realize is that you have not either. Want him to babysit? NO. Then you stand fucking corrected. CORRECTED."

Seems different to me.....but to each his own I suppose. :)

I wouldn't let him watch my kids no, but I can still show support knowing that it will help a lot more than your negativity.

I'm not being all high and mighty. I'm at ground level. You're the one that needs to come up from down there. :p

Ah yes, it is impolite to point at the pink elephant in the room, but it hardly makes me an elitist.

Furthermore, my original offensive statement still stands:

I am just asking b/c you may be projecting your own miserable failings at being a human being onto everyone else. You seem to be saying that without God and when one concentrates on their own desires their lives become absent of love and caring meaningful relationships.

This is most definitely true for YOU, but not for everyone else. If you turned from God you would probably pick up a crack pipe and rape children or something. This is b/c you are a weak human being to begin with. Theism has given you strength only b/c you are weak willed and emotionally crippled.

Don't project your bullshit at me b/c you failed at being a human and had to turn to fantasylands and imaginary friends to cope with it. That is all I am saying.

Deemed bumpworthy, despite the odd derisive hoots from the unevolved.

never judge somebody until you've walked a mile in their shoes

Theism has given you strength only b/c you are weak willed and emotionally crippled.

You spend all this time trying to get those of faith to throw away their gift not knowing the same one is waiting for you to just admit that you're miserable relying on your self. You can deny it and then proceed to attack me and others; it won't convince me, others, or yourself that I'm wrong.

If god is everything, then you've just created a new word for "everything". That is a meaningless feat.


This.

It's all just and argument about dictionary definitions, whats the good in changing the meaning of a word? As far as I'm concerned the only meaning of the word "god" is as a creator such as in the abrahamic religions and ancient multitheistic religions (ie. ancient greek, egyptian, mayan etc.)

People try to come up with these deep thoughts and in my opinion, fail, miserably. If god is everything, what is the reason you can't just say "everything"?

This.

People try to come up with these deep thoughts and in my opinion, fail, miserably. If god is everything, what is the reason you can't just say "everything"?

Your preconceived prejudice is showing;), you assume the negative, whereas there are those who are genuinely searching for truth, the meaning of life, and all that:confused:, and some do say 'everything'!

The belief statement of the World Pantheist Movement

1. We revere and celebrate the Universe as the totality of being, past, present and future. It is self-organizing, ever-evolving and inexhaustibly diverse. Its overwhelming power, beauty and fundamental mystery compel the deepest human reverence and wonder.
2. All matter, energy, and life are an interconnected unity of which we are an inseparable part. We rejoice in our existence and seek to participate ever more deeply in this unity through knowledge, celebration, meditation, empathy, love, ethical action and art.
3. We are an integral part of Nature, which we should cherish, revere and preserve in all its magnificent beauty and diversity. We should strive to live in harmony with Nature locally and globally. We acknowledge the inherent value of all life, human and non-human, and strive to treat all living beings with compassion and respect.
4. All humans are equal centers of awareness of the Universe and nature, and all deserve a life of equal dignity and mutual respect. To this end we support and work towards freedom, democracy, justice, and non-discrimination, and a world community based on peace, sustainable ways of life, full respect for human rights and an end to poverty.
5. There is a single kind of substance, energy/matter, which is vibrant and infinitely creative in all its forms. Body and mind are indivisibly united.