One of my co-workers told me that in the Bible it says that God "hates liars and deceivers". And she said when properly interpreted, it means He hates people who lie and deceive others. I was always under the impression that God does not hate anyone, and I will post the arguments I used in this debate.

My beliefs are that God does not hate the criminal, but the crime that was committed. If He truly hated us, you would have to assume that God is evil, which is also wrong because hate is a product of evil. Everybody is a sinner, from birth. That means that if God hates people who sin, He hates everybody.

I am told in church that God sees us as evil, and that we all deserve to burn in hell for all eternity, but because He loved this world and all of his creations so much, he sent His son down to die on the cross for our sins. Logically, that would have to mean that if He hated us, that would not have happened and we would not have a chance at afterlife or forgiveness of our sins.

Who was correct in this argument?

One of my co-workers told me that in the Bible it says that God "hates liars and deceivers". And she said when properly interpreted, it means He hates people who lie and deceive others. I was always under the impression that God does not hate anyone, and I will post the arguments I used in this debate.

My beliefs are that God does not hate the criminal, but the crime that was committed. If He truly hated us, you would have to assume that God is evil, which is also wrong because hate is a product of evil. Everybody is a sinner, from birth. That means that if God hates people who sin, He hates everybody.

I am told in church that God sees us as evil, and that we all deserve to burn in hell for all eternity, but because He loved this world and all of his creations so much, he sent His son down to die on the cross for our sins. Logically, that would have to mean that if He hated us, that would not have happened and we would not have a chance at afterlife or forgiveness of our sins.

Who was correct in this argument?

There is a differance between telling a lie, and being a liar and deciever.

Also, it's probaly just phrased that way as it is the easiest way to express the idea that God does not like it when you lie, and it also expresses the idea that as an individual you are respoinsible for yourself. Hate is word used more to describe how undesirable God finds the traits of a liar and a deciever, than how God has a personal and violent dislike of individuals.

Ultimately if you lie, cheat and steal, you are responsible for making that decision. And the consequences are your responsibility alone.

There is a differance between telling a lie, and being a liar and deciever.

Also, it's probaly just phrased that way as it is the easiest way to express the idea that God does not like it when you lie, and it also expresses the idea that as an individual you are respoinsible for yourself. Hate is word used more to describe how undesirable God finds the traits of a liar and a deciever, than how God has a personal and violent dislike of individuals.

Ultimately if you lie, cheat and steal, you are responsible for making that decision. And the consequences are your responsibility alone.

That's true. Plus, there is evidence that a lot of scripture was handed down through many generations before it was written into the Bible. And, it was also translated back and forth through other languages, including ancient Hebrew.

So, I suppose that if this is true, the statement could have been changed from something along the lines of "God hates deceit and lies" to "God hates liars and deceivers".

God does not hate--we domesticated primates do a rather thorough job of that ourselves.

The business of God is to create,sustain,and love unconditionally--a notion which few of us can even fathom, much less emulate.

Who was correct in this argument?

No one - you both thought god existed.

^------This


But for shits and giggles wouldn't God HAVE to be evil or at least capable of it, to create it?

If God created everything then he created BOTH good and evil. The act of engineering or creating EVERY last drop of evil (past, present and future) is evil in and of itself TO A DEGREE.

Your God is not ALL loving and he is not ALL good.

God does not hate.....

Romans 9:13 ...and Easu I have hated.

-GOD

Romans 9:13 ...and Easu I have hated.

-GOD

This.

Also, Contradiction:

If God hates anything, why would he let it exist?
Therefore: God loves everyone.
But according to Roman 913, he does hate some people.


Another nonsensical tidbit from religion.

These are the only things that God hates


Proverbs 6:16-19
"There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers."


woo-hoo! Fags isn't on the list!!

^
Those are close to the seven deadly "sins" or Hamatria which means to Miss The Mark...

Anyway, Gnostic perspective:
God is Transcendental, love transcends hate, so the true god is a god of love and all that it encompasses. Jesus doesn't call God his father for no reason, a loving father is one we go to for help and seek forgiveness not an abusive father who demands strict laws and punishes harshly.

OP; the words in the OT that are translated as 'hate' mean much more closely in todays language 'condemned to the grave'; Esau spawned a nation that was fated to be destroyed. As for liars/deceivers/thieves, it is the same. These men, in the system that is, walk the path of self-destruction. Lying, deceiving, thieving...it leads to three places: jails, nut houses, and the grave. Does the translation 'hate' in the Bible mean today's 'hate'? That is, does the condemnation to the grave qualify as passionate contempt? Especially if those condemned to death for their ways are given a simple out from this condemnation by turning to the way of honesty, truthfulness, and good-will? I don't think forgiveness and mercy qualify as passionate contempt.

Will you be able to present this argument in a convincing manner to someone who doesn't want to be convinced? No. Your co-worker doesn't want to do anything but make you uncomfortable with your faith. Accept that God guides even their path, and continue in your walk...you'll find life a lot more enjoyable when you leave the salvation of souls to the One that can actually save souls.

Just be an example...people can think you insane, stupid, ignorant, etc. all they want; but if you travel the path God lays in front of you with gratitude, you will receive all the blessings necessary to provide evidence of the Truth's impact on your life. Even then though, there will be many who think you are insane, and worse.

For example, I've met hundreds of individuals that have had effective spiritual encounters with God that completely changed their personality and mind - healing them of multitudes of physiological disorders; they are ridiculed in public for giving account of these experiences. The only time these men can effectively carry the message is when they come across someone so tremendously burdened with poisonous fruits that the burdened man desires to be healed so passionately that he throws his prejudice towards the Spirit to the wayside.

I've given several different instructions on this site on how to meet God face to face; even how to hear the very Voice of God...I've had not a single person come back to say it doesn't work, nor a single to come back and tell me it worked. They will not try it; they require evidence before they spend even an hour finding something that would completely revolutionize their entire perception of life and truly free themselves from the bondage of ego. They have so many opinions that they prefer arguing with a suggestion rather than just trying it to see if it works: this is the malady of pride. It keeps itself in place by deterring a person from ever trying that which is judged as 'beneath'.

Many are like this: No reason, no assertion, no suggestion, absolutely nothing coming from the mouth of a person seen as 'beneath' has any merit for practice.
Few are like this: Any reason, any assertion, any suggestion, absolutely everything is at least worth investigation; and anything that doesn't infect the conscience in investigation is worth a trial run.

Find your honest heart, open mind, and willing hands and you will excel in light. Twist your tongue, close your mind, and slack your hands and you will excel in darkness. It's an easy switch to flip: keep your light bright, brother.

god, being an infinite all-powerful all-seeing being, is infinetely good and bad, loving and hating at the same time. god doesnt care more about humans than he does about an individual electron spinning about an atom or a galaxy of stars making its way across the infinite universe. why would a being as infinetly great as god care about mere humans?

how do you define "gods love" anyway?


ps: this assuming that god even exists, which i sincerely doubt

god, being an infinite all-powerful all-seeing being, is infinetely good and bad, loving and hating at the same time. god doesnt care more about humans than he does about an individual electron spinning about an atom or a galaxy of stars making its way across the infinite universe. why would a being as infinetly great as god care about mere humans?

how do you define "gods love" anyway?


ps: this assuming that god even exists, which i sincerely doubt

err... you're assuming that just because God is omnipotent that he actually uses all his power to be infinitely good and bad, loving and hating etc.

if god uses his power to the full extent of its ability (infinite) then he would infinitely care about mere humans as much as he doesnt care about humans. he would also defy and not defy all contradiction with this statement

.. and so on and so forth. it gets illogical

God does not hate--we domesticated primates do a rather thorough job of that ourselves.

The business of God is to create,sustain,and love unconditionally--a notion which few of us can even fathom, much less emulate.

How do you know the nature of God?

lol i ask you a lot of questions...

EDIT: read in another thread that its intuitive or something. i then asked how one might find it intuitively, you'll probably stumble upon it

Posted by Hexadecimal:
...

For example, I've met hundreds of individuals that have had effective spiritual encounters with God that completely changed their personality and mind

Hundreds is a lot! Met them personally or just went to Church and saw hundreds?

I've given several different instructions on this site on how to meet God face to face; even how to hear the very Voice of God...I've had not a single person come back to say it doesn't work, nor a single to come back and tell me it worked. They will not try it

I'd definitely cosnider trying it. Although I imagine you're probably sick of giving instruction on it. If you have this written down somewhere, do tell...

For example, I've met hundreds of individuals that have had effective spiritual encounters with God that completely changed their personality and mind

Hundreds is a lot! Met them personally or just went to Church and saw hundreds?

I've given several different instructions on this site on how to meet God face to face; even how to hear the very Voice of God...I've had not a single person come back to say it doesn't work, nor a single to come back and tell me it worked. They will not try it

I'd definitely cosnider trying it. Although I imagine you're probably sick of giving instruction on it. If you have this written down somewhere, do tell...

Personally met hundreds.

As to the second portion, I'll give you two simple techniques: One will meet the consciousness of 'God'; the other, the entire body of 'God'.

For meeting the consciousness: This is called the Meditation of Love.

Lay down, or sit down. Shut your eyes. Focus on nothing. Various manifestations of sub-conscious desires will start coming into your mind and distract you from focusing on the void. To eliminate their distractive ability, you cannot fight them, merely accept them. As you begin to accept the lesser manifestations, you'll start to experience the greater manifestations...the ones we humans like to think we don't have. Even these, you must accept.

Once you are acquainted with your whole being, from basic wants to psychotic evils, you will reach a spiritual point where you feel there is something more inside of you that prevents all these desires from fruition. The gap between you and it seems incredibly large. Here, you can turn back, or you can take the most sincere expression of the 'leap of faith' and just go for it: Have no expectation of making the leap, but as you begin to take it, focus on 'how' the leap is made (Essentially, ask the void how you are to survive). The feeling of complete weightlessness will overcome you, a vision may or may not happen, and the consciousness of 'God' will reveal itself in a way understandable by the individual doing this meditation.

The second practice is called the Meditation of Life; Fuck is familiar with this one. It's called by Yogis 'rhythmic breathing'. Lay down with your feet slightly apart, your hands resting over your solar plexus (right below where your ribcage comes together). Breathe in, hold, breathe out, hold; do this through your nose. Your inhalation and exhalation should measure twice as long as the holds. For example, I inhale for 20 seconds, hold 10, exhale for 20 seconds, hold 10. When I started, I could only manage 5/2/5/2, 'tis the damage cigarettes can do. As you build this into a rhythm, you'll begin to feel your fingers and toes buzz with what feels like electricity. The Yogis call this Prana. It is pure energy, which upon condensing becomes matter. As you continue this exercise, the rest of your body will begin to buzz with this energy. And eventually, you'll start to feel your being melt away into the world around you as your energy vibration starts to match the energy vibration around you. At this point, multiple consciousnesses are common in the form of simultaneous out of body experiences. Visions are also common. Some will hear the Voice. Others (and this seems to be quite rare) will levitate.

If I, or anyone else, were far enough along with the Meditation of Life, interesting things become possible: Levitation, healing, raising the dead, regenerating lost body parts, restoring sight, seeing spirits, walking upon water, command of nature, and I'm sure more.

I already am seen as quite a nut case on here, so I'll share this: The very first time I did the Meditation of Life, I had a vision of what the town I live in looked like a long time ago. I felt an immense empathy for the land that's been destroyed by us humans for the sake of false security. I stood up, still buzzing with energy, and went outside to look at the world around me. The wind cut to my bone. I heard my soul say 'stop' to the wind, and it stopped. I turned back around to go inside my house after a moment, and heard my soul say, 'begin' and the wind picked right back up full force.

If you decide to try these, let me know what kinds of experiences you have! I love hearing stories of folks finding that the universe is indeed a conscious being!

Sounds very much like Buddhist meditations (such as breathing meditation), although the focus in those is on one specific thing, rather than nothingness.

When I have the time/patience, I'll try it. Does it require much practice or cna it work off-the-bat?

Romans 9:13 ...and Easu I have hated.

-GOD

The Bible is not an authoritative source for information about God.

It is largely myth and metaphor, an obsolete artifact of the Piscean Age.

I don't label myself a Christian, but I try to understand the bible in relation to my own beliefs as much as I can.

This particular part I can't relate to, because hatred comes from someone who feels that their "self" is threatened in some way.
How can something that is "everything that exists" and has ultimate control over itself be threatened by a part of itself?

Doesn't Jesus preach that you should love your enemy?

God hating anything doesn't fit into my view of what he is.

eh, it is kinda true, in a way

it's more like, "you can't be fkkking srs..."

OP; the words in the OT that are translated as 'hate' mean much more closely in todays language 'condemned to the grave'; Esau spawned a nation that was fated to be destroyed. As for liars/deceivers/thieves, it is the same. These men, in the system that is, walk the path of self-destruction. Lying, deceiving, thieving...it leads to three places: jails, nut houses, and the grave. Does the translation 'hate' in the Bible mean today's 'hate'? That is, does the condemnation to the grave qualify as passionate contempt? Especially if those condemned to death for their ways are given a simple out from this condemnation by turning to the way of honesty, truthfulness, and good-will? I don't think forgiveness and mercy qualify as passionate contempt.

Will you be able to present this argument in a convincing manner to someone who doesn't want to be convinced? No. Your co-worker doesn't want to do anything but make you uncomfortable with your faith. Accept that God guides even their path, and continue in your walk...you'll find life a lot more enjoyable when you leave the salvation of souls to the One that can actually save souls.

Just be an example...people can think you insane, stupid, ignorant, etc. all they want; but if you travel the path God lays in front of you with gratitude, you will receive all the blessings necessary to provide evidence of the Truth's impact on your life. Even then though, there will be many who think you are insane, and worse.

For example, I've met hundreds of individuals that have had effective spiritual encounters with God that completely changed their personality and mind - healing them of multitudes of physiological disorders; they are ridiculed in public for giving account of these experiences. The only time these men can effectively carry the message is when they come across someone so tremendously burdened with poisonous fruits that the burdened man desires to be healed so passionately that he throws his prejudice towards the Spirit to the wayside.

I've given several different instructions on this site on how to meet God face to face; even how to hear the very Voice of God...I've had not a single person come back to say it doesn't work, nor a single to come back and tell me it worked. They will not try it; they require evidence before they spend even an hour finding something that would completely revolutionize their entire perception of life and truly free themselves from the bondage of ego. They have so many opinions that they prefer arguing with a suggestion rather than just trying it to see if it works: this is the malady of pride. It keeps itself in place by deterring a person from ever trying that which is judged as 'beneath'.

Many are like this: No reason, no assertion, no suggestion, absolutely nothing coming from the mouth of a person seen as 'beneath' has any merit for practice.
Few are like this: Any reason, any assertion, any suggestion, absolutely everything is at least worth investigation; and anything that doesn't infect the conscience in investigation is worth a trial run.

Find your honest heart, open mind, and willing hands and you will excel in light. Twist your tongue, close your mind, and slack your hands and you will excel in darkness. It's an easy switch to flip: keep your light bright, brother.

B e a utful!


Lay down, or sit down. Shut your eyes. Focus on nothing.

I lived with a community of people who were hare krishnas (pretty much hindu). During a discussion someone told me that it was impossible to focus on nothing. I didn't like hearing that and have always wondered if it's true.
It's a bit of a head fuck tho because to know whether or not you are thinking of nothing, you need to think.

Proverbs 6:16-19
"There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers."


What are "haughty eyes"? Does that refer to a lustful appetite?

What are "haughty eyes"? Does that refer to a lustful appetite?

Not lust. Pride.

We're not supposed to enjoy feeling dignified, remember? It warps the whole guilt complex we're supposed to be humbly experiencing.

Not lust. Pride.

We're not supposed to enjoy feeling dignified, remember? It warps the whole guilt complex we're supposed to be humbly experiencing.

Sounds more like arrogance to me, but that's just my opinion.