i know that this issue is pretty much beat to death in popular culture today, but i didn't see a thread on it so i figured i'd see what totse thoughts were on the issue.

the big thing right now seems to be ethanol and bio-fuel, which seems really sweet on the surface (take old fast food cooking grease and fuel our car, neato) but if you look at it closer i think a lot of problems seem to jump out. a) the process to make bio-fuel uses something 2/3 a gallon of gas to make one gallon of ethanol bio-fuel b) all of the runoff from what we use to grow the crops we are going to need to make all of this fuel is definitely going to fuck up our lakes and river and will probably have a much more immediate and drastic environmental effect then the cfcs in the air and c) i heard that if we first assume no one eats any corn and we dont have a global problem with starvation, and then take all of the current corn or whatever and convert it into bio-fuel, it wouldn't be enough to fuel america for a year (im not sure about the specific statistics of the last point, but anyway it worked out pretty shitty)

ethanol seems like something neat that somebody with the right science background could cook up in their back yard and convert their diesel engine to bio-fuel and thats neat and cool, but its not a practical solution to our problems. hydrogen fuel cells (the next big hope apparently) just seems like some mysterious energy source that no one can really explain or understands that the energy company are using like a carrot so they can milk oil for as long as they want then have an automatic monopoly on the new fuel source.

so what are your thoughts about what alternative fuels we should be looking for, solar power, atomic batteries, wind, super conductors. or have i missed something that is currently being developed? or does no one give a shit anymore?

Nobody gives a shit anymore. ;)

But in all seriousness, hydrogen will probably get going once we develop solar some more so that we can isolate the hydrogen from water. The problem is not that we need another clean energy source--nuclear will probably keep us going long enough to develop enough solar for the whole world's needs--, we need a highly portable fuel, and hydrogen provides that, but it requires an energy input which will have to be clean or else we're back to where we started.

Hope that made sense.

so what are your thoughts about what alternative fuels we should be looking for, solar power, atomic batteries, wind, super conductors. or have i missed something that is currently being developed? or does no one give a shit anymore?

Smaller cars that not every can own. But that will not happen until all the oil is gone.

I don't think 1 single route will work, what we need is to diversify and use many different sources and ideas.
This 10 step plan is something i just thought up for the UK but could be applied to countries in similiar positions if we had a few years.

1. Education, Education, Education, make people aware of the issues
2. Efficiency drive, make it illegal to have inefficient appliances, homes etc..
3. Nationalise the railways and Public transport
4. Renew our commitment to nuclear energy and possibly expand it slightly
5. Tax inefficient and new cars (not this measly £40 but £500+)
6. Encourage people to use and set up local economies via farmers markets etc..
7. Place solar hot water on every suitable house in the country (ambitious but possible in a few years)
8. Big scale investments in offshore windfarms
9. New pumped storage sites to take the eratic wind energy and create a constant flow of electricity to the nation
10. Offer easier and more grants for micro wind, solar and hydro set ups.

Now even if we had a few more years by no means would this plan totally mitigate the effects of fossil fuel depletion or reduce our carbon dioxide output by 100% but it would certainly help towards both of them and put us in a better position than many of our neighbours.

Nobody gives a shit anymore. ;)

But in all seriousness, hydrogen will probably get going once we develop solar some more so that we can isolate the hydrogen from water. The problem is not that we need another clean energy source--nuclear will probably keep us going long enough to develop enough solar for the whole world's needs--, we need a highly portable fuel, and hydrogen provides that, but it requires an energy input which will have to be clean or else we're back to where we started.

Hope that made sense.


That and matching the mileage on a gas car, take two tanks the same size one with gas another hydrogen, You will get about half the distance with hydrogen. Not to mention hydrogen is allot more volatile then gasoline.

That and matching the mileage on a gas car, take two tanks the same size one with gas another hydrogen, You will get about half the distance with hydrogen. Not to mention hydrogen is allot more volatile then gasoline.

The point was that we need a versatile fuel for transportation, and the choices are either hydrogen or ethanol (or some sugar-ethanol that's much more efficient but not really developed). Yeah, hydrogen does have its downsides, but it's not as bad as ethanol.

used oil from deep fryers, booze.

also sterling engines run on anything, just as long as it creates a temperature differential.
the same for other steam engines but they're less efficient.