The laws of logic, mathematics, science, and morality are all in the bible and they are God's Laws...

The Proof that God exists is that without Him you couldn't prove anything...

Fucking bullet proof.

This is simply the most elegant representation of our universe and everything in it.

Fuck I hope this is a troll, and people like you don't actually exist

Fuck I hope this is a troll, and people like you don't actually exist


Once again, we get another atheist who doesn't give any evidence to support their beliefs... none!


Biography:
I live in New Zealand. I'm a Thai boxer (kick boxer basically). I love to get pissed and hang out with my mates, or current girlfriend (or current mistress =P). Basically I just love to party and go to metal gigs.

Fuck, I hope people like you don't actually exist...

its so simple! how did we miss this?

its so simple! how did we miss this?

None of us read the bible. :(

Yes, because the world started when the bible was created.

Wait wasn't it put together by the West-Roman Constantine hundreds of years after Jesus was killed by taking the testimonies of Saints Mark, Mathews etc. because his historians found them the most frequently?

Nah history must be flawed because god does things like this to test our faith.

Take your physics and math and be a productive member of society.

Yes, because the world started when the bible was created.

Wait wasn't it put together by the West-Roman Constantine hundreds of years after Jesus was killed by taking the testimonies of Saints Mark, Mathews etc. because his historians found them the most frequently?

Nah history must be flawed because god does things like this to test our faith.

Take your physics and math and be a productive member of society.

That would actually be the later books of the NT. The TNK (also known as Old Testament) has existed for quite some time (Oldest complete book in known human history).

Yes, because the world started when the bible was created.

Of course not, the world 'started', as you put it, over 5000 years ago! :eek:


Wait wasn't it put together by the West-Roman Constantine hundreds of years after Jesus was killed by taking the testimonies of Saints Mark, Mathews etc. because his historians found them the most frequently?

The books existed well before he returned to heaven...


Nah history must be flawed because god does things like this to test our faith.

Although God has tested people's faith in the bible before... You again come out with a ridiculous statement "that Bad Things happen because God wanted to test us"... Without ANY Proof what so ever... What makes you think these "bad things" are in fact bad at all when you consider the scale of God's Kingdom...


Take your physics and math and be a productive member of society.

Take them where?, over to your place so I can tutor your dumb ass...

What about fossils?

What about fossils?

elaborate...

Once again, we get another atheist who doesn't give any evidence to support their beliefs... none!

You quote my profile... But you neglect to see that I'm not an Athiest, and that I'm in fact Asatru. Fucking idiot Christian scum.

Plus I think the Greeks etc. had science, maths, and logic way before your Christian god. Wouldn't that put more truth into Hellenism?

Trolled-out forum is trolled-the fuck-out.

You quote my profile... But you neglect to see that I'm not an Athiest, and that I'm in fact Asatru. Fucking idiot Christian scum.

Oh yeah, like I keep notes on every wack-job cult that exists...


Plus I think the Greeks etc. had science, maths, and logic way before your Christian god. Wouldn't that put more truth into Hellenism?

Ummm, God created the "Greeks etc."... Created science, maths and logic way before that, in fact... It was with these tools that he created man, in his image...

A screenshot of some of the threads that axiom has started:

http://i11.tinypic.com/71f5cnp.jpg

A screenshot of some of the threads that axiom has started:

http://i11.tinypic.com/71f5cnp.jpg

yeah...

Pew! Pew!

that was a good one...

yeah...

Pew! Pew!

was a good one...

It wasn't an argument, just wanted the people to be informed. :cool:

The laws of logic, mathematics, science, and morality are all in the bible and they are God's Laws...

The Proof that God exists is that without Him you couldn't prove anything...

That's circular reasoning, which doesn't prove anything. Find some real evidence, unless your purpose here is simply to kill time.

Settle down kids, i was just trolling, I'm not gonna read your analyze of my post because i seriously just dont care. You're right ok?

I imagine all people take things as their axioms. I do not see why God's existence is a less appropriate choice than say the laws of logic, since before one chooses an axiom, I suspect there would be no criteria for 'appropriate'.

Wait wasn't it put together by the West-Roman Constantine hundreds of years after Jesus was killed by taking the testimonies of Saints Mark, Mathews etc. because his historians found them the most frequently?

.

the book of genesis was written long before this

The laws of logic, mathematics, science, and morality are all in the bible and they are God's Laws...


You are possibly looking at this completely backwards. Only such a universe with such laws would be capable of producing intelligence that would then be capable of even pondering on such a concept such as god. You are just begging the question that any such universe that has regulations and controls must have had some god creator.

The Proof that God exists is that without Him you couldn't prove anything...[/QUOTE]

Begging the question to the fullest.

The laws of logic, mathematics, science, and morality are all in the bible and they are God's Laws...

The Proof that God exists is that without Him you couldn't prove anything...

I honestly don't even know how that even begins to explain the proof of a god. I'd be more convinced if you said, he exists because I saw him.
Like. I can't even argue with this kind of an "argument" because I just know there will be no end to the madness if I begin.

Why do Christians always site the bible, which is basically a big story book, as proof of anything?

Why do Christians always site the bible, which is basically a big story book, as proof of anything?

Pardon, my original reply was a bit back-handed. It is because a life lived without the ideals of selflessness, gratitude, honesty, satisfaction, compassion, mercy, and so on is a horrifying existence. These ideals were first compiled in the Torah in the form of the 10 commandments. This alone is enough for many individuals to place faith in the book.

I'll leave it at that. You believe it to basically be a story book, so the additional reasons would be entirely moot, rather than mostly so.

Pardon, my original reply was a bit back-handed. It is because a life lived without the ideals of selflessness, gratitude, honesty, satisfaction, compassion, mercy, and so on is a horrifying existence. These ideals were first compiled in the Torah in the form of the 10 commandments. This alone is enough for many individuals to place faith in the book.

I'll leave it at that. You believe it to basically be a story book, so the additional reasons would be entirely moot, rather than mostly so.

I'm not sure I understand what you were trying to say in the first bit, but why does selflessness, gratitude, honesty, satisfaction, compassion, mercy, etc. rely on a god's existence? Personally, I like to think I'm being a good person because I am a good person. I am planning to go join the peace corps in a couple years, and I'm an atheist/agnostic.

And I must have come off as a dick in that first post, sorry. When I said story book, I was referring to all the parables(sp? right word?) in it. I was raised catholic, and taught they are stories with morals, but I do know some people who take it literally.

Most of the gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) were written around 80 A.D. when the apostles who wrote them were old men and probably had forgotten or mixed up many of their experiences with Jesus. The scribes of Constantine just changed some things around, removed a couple books, and assembled all the books that they approved of and published them all toghether with the Old Testament in one complete book, the Bible.

And yes.. I read the Bible, 'twas boring and painful.

The laws of logic, mathematics, science, and morality are all in the bible and they are God's Laws...

The Proof that God exists is that without Him you couldn't prove anything...

If God made science, why have (and still do) his followers fear it, and refuse it?

Science in the bible:

Ezekiel (7:2, 6) "The end is come upon the four corners of the land."
Ezekiel proclaims that the world (which is flat and has four corners) is ending.

This idea of a flat earth lasted until 1492 or so. Very helpful to geologists and science in general I am sure.

Leviticus (14:2-52)
God's law for lepers: Get two birds. Kill one. Dip the live bird in the blood of the dead one. Sprinkle the blood on the leper seven times, and then let the blood-soaked bird fly off. Next find a lamb and kill it. Wipe some of its blood on the patient's right ear, thumb, and big toe. Sprinkle seven times with oil and wipe some of the oil on his right ear, thumb and big toe. Repeat. Finally kill a couple doves and offer one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering.

Medical science in the bible FTW. Put the blood of dead and burnt animals on your open leperous sores.

Isaiah 29:6: "Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire."

No need for geologists or meteorologists.....b/c God causes these things. How did this idea help OR birth geological or weather science? The bible makes numerous mentions of God causing what we now know to be NATURAL disasters and what we can now predict in most cases (no thanks to the bible) to minimize damage.

Joel 2:31: "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood."

These "signs" were a lot more impressive before the causes of solar and lunar eclipses were understood. Again "God did it", failed to help us better understand NATURAL SCIENTIFIC causes to strange occurances.

And now my coup de grace to your foolish notion that the bible and god created science....

Proverbs 3:5: "Lean not unto thine own understanding."

Don't try to understand things; just accept whatever the bible and your religious leaders tell you. This is the exact and polar opposite of science.


Your God and his mortal buddies who wrote your book did many, many, many more harmful things to the devolopment of science. From the persecution of men and (especially) women of science.....to the havoc "God did it" creates with free thought needed for true science.

YOUR BOOK is a simple old tome akin to grimm's fairy tales. It is poorly written and worse in the translation. It is a painfully simple overgeneralized collection of old Jewish folklore and lies at best.

In addition to my favorite scientific passages in the bible I present to you this notion. Many, many other cultures came upon science, logic, math and the other things you propose God brought to man.........without your God or your book.

Medical science in the bible FTW. Put the blood of dead and burnt animals on your open leperous sores.

To use this passage is dishonest of you. You used it before, in the thread "Criticism of the Jewish Talmud?", where JewDude2 told you that the Hebrew word translated as "leprosy" does not refer to Hanson's disease, which we have come to associate it with, but to a state of spiritual and ritual impurity. He may have been incorrect, but if I were you, I would be hesitant about using Leviticus 14:2-52, just in case he was right.

To use this passage is dishonest of you. You used it before, in the thread "Criticism of the Jewish Talmud?", where JewDude2 told you that the Hebrew word translated as "leprosy" does not refer to Hanson's disease, which we have come to associate it with, but to a state of spiritual and ritual impurity. He may have been incorrect, but if I were you, I would be hesitant about using Leviticus 14:2-52, just in case he was right.

Let's ask the Jewish Encyclopedia, shall we?

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=208&letter=L&search=leprosy

Unlike many articles on that site, this one doesn't even leave room for interpretation.

To use this passage is dishonest of you. You used it before, in the thread "Criticism of the Jewish Talmud?", where JewDude2 told you that the Hebrew word translated as "leprosy" does not refer to Hanson's disease, which we have come to associate it with, but to a state of spiritual and ritual impurity. He may have been incorrect, but if I were you, I would be hesitant about using Leviticus 14:2-52, just in case he was right.

It says here in the Jewish Encyclopedia (http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=208&letter=L&search=leprosy) that while leprosy as we know it today wasn't the same disease as leprosy in Biblical times, skin conditions existed that were so repugnant, it's infectious, oozing funk even got all over their clothes, and their houses!

And I imagine back then, the lack of knowledge surrounding pathology probably hampered the available remedies for conditions like that. They treated it with "atonement from the Lord", and in speaking in that context, it probably was also considered a spiritual impurity, also. Remember that these were ancient times and people back then associated diseases they couldn't cure as acts of the devil, no doubt as consistently as they attributed any healings or remissions of disease to the hand of God working his magic.

So while it may not have been the leprosy of today, his comment pointing out the absurdity of pagan sacrificial remedies involving dead birds in Leviticus is totally honest. Especially considering that he was pointing out the scarcity of any mention of real science in the Old Testament, and considering how regardless if the leprosy in the OT isn't the same as Hansen's disease as we know it today, that Rx ritual of bleeding birds to purge a human of disease is the farthest thing from science.

^ I totally beat you. :) :p

Great minds think alike, eh?

^ I totally beat you. :) :p

You totally did. I had an interruption mid-post and didn't refresh before hitting *submit*! :o

Ah, so JewDude2 was wrong then; my apologies, BrokeProphet.

Personally, I like to think I'm being a good person because I am a good person.

At this stage it's doubtful if people are truly born good, or truly born bad... The concept of a 'Good Person' in your culture would mean something very different in an other...

I would say if you feel you are a good person, it is because you have known good people from whom you can judge yourself in parallel... And the morals with which you were raised...

I was raised catholic.

You are possibly looking at this completely backwards. Only such a universe with such laws would be capable of producing intelligence that would then be capable of even pondering on such a concept such as god. You are just begging the question that any such universe that has regulations and controls must have had some god creator.


I guess, neither of us are questioning that the universe has a solid, persistent structure...

You just argue this structure resulted from 'luck', I'm not so sure... I've never been that lucky...

I honestly don't even know how that even begins to explain the proof of a god. I'd be more convinced if you said, he exists because I saw him.
Like. I can't even argue with this kind of an "argument" because I just know there will be no end to the madness if I begin.

What if I told you I do see him.

Just like when somebody throws a pebble in a lake, you can feel and see the ripples as they pass you by... You know the pebble is there. But until you can breath underwater, you'll never see the pebble... Experiencing only it's legacy...

YOUR BOOK is a simple old tome akin to grimm's fairy tales. It is poorly written and worse in the translation. It is a painfully simple overgeneralized collection of old Jewish folklore and lies at best.

Your understanding of MY BOOK is impeccable... I clearly can't grasp the fallacy that is the bible, having only read in a handful of times, cover to cover...

I don't have the time to debate you on each and every quote you regurgitated out of context...

I will say this... All these things happened... God, like Man, is not immune from been affected by his creations... He is changed as we are changed as me move closer or further away from him...

The fact these things happened back then does not mean the have to happen today... Which I might add, is not implausible...

But, you probably already know this since you know your bible inside out...


Many, many other cultures came upon science, logic, math and the other things you propose God brought to man.........without your God or your book.

Which proves my point, that it's not man's creation, but the the creator of man himself...

Troll thread is troll...ish?

The laws of logic, mathematics, science, and morality are all in the bible and they are God's Laws...

The Proof that God exists is that without Him you couldn't prove anything...

look son.. here's the deal: the old testament has a LOT of shit the new one doesn't for instance: GOD. I believe his name is Yaw'weh?? wtf happened to this god? he was supposed to be the omnipotent arrogant son of a bitch that such a deity is supposed to encompass... i'm confused because all of a sudden god decides to impregnate a 'virgin' (lord knows she wasn't no virgin, bitch probably lived in a concubine before 'god' freed her') and quite honestly, i don't know believe jesus was born on december 25th... desert winters are FUCKING COLD... the likelihood of a NEWBORN baby surviving that is like the odds of me winning the fucking lottery playing once a year when i'm piss drunk and picking the same fucking numbers for all the fucking numbers. simply put, read that WHOLE FUCKING BIBLE and tell me there AREN'T discrepancies. thank you.

Of course not, the world 'started', as you put it, over 5000 years ago! :eek:



more like 5 billion years

I don't have the time to debate you on each and every quote you regurgitated out of context.....

Well at least pick one to debate the context of. At least make an attempt at refuting this. You made the assertion that god created science. I give you god's own words as proof of what a shitty scientist god is.

Science in the bible:

Ezekiel (7:2, 6) "The end is come upon the four corners of the land."Ezekiel proclaims that the world (which is flat and has four corners) is ending.

This idea of a flat earth lasted until 1492 or so. Very helpful to geologists and science in general I am sure.

Leviticus (14:2-52)
God's law for lepers: Get two birds. Kill one. Dip the live bird in the blood of the dead one. Sprinkle the blood on the leper seven times, and then let the blood-soaked bird fly off. Next find a lamb and kill it. Wipe some of its blood on the patient's right ear, thumb, and big toe. Sprinkle seven times with oil and wipe some of the oil on his right ear, thumb and big toe. Repeat. Finally kill a couple doves and offer one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering.

Medical science in the bible FTW. Put the blood of dead and burnt animals on your open leperous sores.

Isaiah 29:6: "Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire."

No need for geologists or meteorologists.....b/c God causes these things. How did this idea help OR birth geological or weather science? The bible makes numerous mentions of God causing what we now know to be NATURAL disasters and what we can now predict in most cases (no thanks to the bible) to minimize damage.

Joel 2:31: "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood."

These "signs" were a lot more impressive before the causes of solar and lunar eclipses were understood. Again "God did it", failed to help us better understand NATURAL SCIENTIFIC causes to strange occurances.

And now my coup de grace to your foolish notion that the bible and god created science....

Proverbs 3:5: "Lean not unto thine own understanding."

Don't try to understand things; just accept whatever the bible and your religious leaders tell you. This is the exact and polar opposite of science.

look son.. simply put, read that WHOLE FUCKING BIBLE and tell me there AREN'T discrepancies. thank you.

look son... read the WHOLE FUCKING THREAD bitch, I've already stated I've read it numerous times cover to cover you fucking faggot...

There's so much wrong with what you just said, Yahweh is god... understand now?

:rolleyes:

ok, here goes...


Ezekiel (7:2, 6) "The end is come upon the four corners of the land."Ezekiel proclaims that the world (which is flat and has four corners) is ending.

It's says for corners of the land... Not Earth... LAND, of which they only knew of a small fraction... And coincidently, did have four corners, a north, south, east and west corner... Shocking I know, but hardly a break through...


Leviticus (14:2-52)
God's law for lepers: Get two birds. Kill one. Dip the live bird in the blood of the dead one. Sprinkle the blood on the leper seven times, and then let the blood-soaked bird fly off. Next find a lamb and kill it. Wipe some of its blood on the patient's right ear, thumb, and big toe. Sprinkle seven times with oil and wipe some of the oil on his right ear, thumb and big toe. Repeat. Finally kill a couple doves and offer one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering.

Yes, remember they didn't have very good hospitals back then... It's easier to get two birds than it is to get to a doctor...


Isaiah 29:6: "Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire."

Come on now... We can't predict the weather any more accurately than they could when they documented this... How do you know God *doesn't* have the power to stop hurricanes?


Joel 2:31: "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood."

What point are you making here? yes it's a lunar eclipse, recounted accurately for the understanding of science by man at that time... Where's the fallacy? God's not going to hold you hand you know...


Proverbs 3:5: "Lean not unto thine own understanding."

This passage is quite relevant to yourself actually...
Means:Don't trust you already know everything... You don't...

Fucking bullet proof.




laughing out loud:D

Troll. Axiom makes shitty posts in HB a lot, sad to see he's spreading his faggotry to the more serious forums..

I just want to state for the record...

Harold is the MINISTER OF PROPAGANDA, USSHB

His faggotry is epic...

It's says for corners of the land... Not Earth... LAND, of which they only knew of a small fraction... And coincidently, did have four corners, a north, south, east and west corner... Shocking I know, but hardly a break through......

LOL....I suppose the flat earth theory that lasted until about 500 years ago had nothing to do with the most printed and read text at the time? You are also interpreting this KNOWING what you do about geography thanks to science, not religion.

Yes, remember they didn't have very good hospitals back then... It's easier to get two birds than it is to get to a doctor......

The church frowned upon studying the remains of dead men to find cause of death, which was needed to further medical science. Religion hampered medical science severly and that is why it is easier to get two birds than it is a doctor.

Easier to get two birds than a doctor.......is your ignorance deliberate? It is easier to brush my teeth with a piece of my own shit than to go to the store and get a tooth brush and tooth paste, does not mean it is a good idea!

My point still stands here as well. This is not medical science. This is superstitious bullshit with no purpose beyond a placebo effect. Rubbing blood on your open sores and wishing your illness away IS NOT SCIENCE which I will now remind you is the point of your OP.

Come on now... We can't predict the weather any more accurately than they could when they documented this... How do you know God *doesn't* have the power to stop hurricanes?...

REALLY??? Are you suggesting that in that time they had weather satellites OR are you suggesting that our weather satellites are no more useful than a man licking his finger and sticking it in the air?

Again, sweet pea, the point of my post is to suggest that science is almost non-existent in the bible; Meaning that science was not birthed by your god or his words (the bible).

This passage is quite relevant to yourself actually...
Means:Don't trust you already know everything... You don't...

I realize I do not know everything. I don't pretend to know that which cannot be known unlike you. That passage says "Lean not unto thine own understanding" whose understanding should one lean unto then. We must understand certain things to survive. Let me educate you: It means lean unto God's wisdom and understanding. Most likely through the bible or the clergy. As we can see from God's wisdom and understanding.....he was a PISS POOR scientist.

Face it....your done here.

It is quite funny you guys are taking the OP seriously.

Just look at his name: Axiom

In natural sciences theories, an axiom is considered as an evident truth which does not need any explanation and is accepted without any demonstration or proof in their application domain.

I was reading through this thread and was facepalming so hard i thought id pop in, for starters I want to say I probably wont be getting back to totse anytime soon so dont direct comments directly at me.

"Ezekiel (7:2, 6) "The end is come upon the four corners of the land."Ezekiel proclaims that the world (which is flat and has four corners) is ending."

Ill start with this although that other guy did a good job let me just direct you to this http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c017.html

"Isaiah 29:6: "Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire."

GOD WAS TALKING TO A PROPHET HE AND HE WAS PROPHESYING!!!!

" Joel 2:31: "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood."

SEE ABOVE!!!!

You may notice I didnt touch the leprosy thing but it isnt because its impossible to answer it would just be a waste of my time because you just wouldnt understand.



"i don't know believe jesus was born on december 25th..."



http://img.qj.net/uploads/articles_module/93607/facepalm_qjgenth.jpg


Final note: I mean no disrespect when I say this but you people have no clue what your talking about.

LOL....I suppose the flat earth theory that lasted until about 500 years ago had nothing to do with the most printed and read text at the time? You are also interpreting this KNOWING what you do about geography thanks to science, not religion.

Begging the question...


The church frowned upon studying the remains of dead men to find cause of death, which was needed to further medical science. Religion hampered medical science severly and that is why it is easier to get two birds than it is a doctor.

Easier to get two birds than a doctor.......is your ignorance deliberate? It is easier to brush my teeth with a piece of my own shit than to go to the store and get a tooth brush and tooth paste, does not mean it is a good idea!

My point still stands here as well. This is not medical science. This is superstitious bullshit with no purpose beyond a placebo effect. Rubbing blood on your open sores and wishing your illness away IS NOT SCIENCE which I will now remind you is the point of your OP.

2 things;

1) Not studying the bodies of dead people is good advice and would have saved countless lives through the ages... I don't believe God wanted us to study dead people until we had a good enough understanding to do so...

2) I'm disregarding your analogy of brushing your teeth with shit (?? wtf) Yes it is SCIENCE, it was SCIENCE as they new science to be back then... And it worked!... The fact that the interpretation is lost on you today doesn't add any less weight to my argument that God Created Science...

These days God can heal people in many different ways...


REALLY??? Are you suggesting that in that time they had weather satellites OR are you suggesting that our weather satellites are no more useful than a man licking his finger and sticking it in the air?

Again, sweet pea, the point of my post is to suggest that science is almost non-existent in the bible; Meaning that science was not birthed by your god or his words (the bible).

Ok Buttercup, where was your amazing knowledge of meteorology when Katrina hit?? We're so fucking advanced, with your 21st century technology, what a help that turned out to be...


I realize I do not know everything. I don't pretend to know that which cannot be known unlike you. That passage says "Lean not unto thine own understanding" whose understanding should one lean unto then. We must understand certain things to survive. Let me educate you: It means lean unto God's wisdom and understanding. Most likely through the bible or the clergy. As we can see from God's wisdom and understanding.....he was a PISS POOR scientist.

Face it....your done here.

You're just adding your own bias to that passage, it doesn't say "lean unto your Clergy's Understanding"... You just made that up!

God works in many ways, you could lean unto your fucking sister for all i care and if you're open to his message, you will receive that understanding...

I think the difference here is: as both you and I learn more about ourselves and our world. You see yourself as been the hero, achieving all on your (good boy, well done!). Where as I see myself as the humble student, learning as I go from my teacher...

Ok, so... where's the proof?

And don't say "Because the Bible exists" 'cos I've been through that shit enough times already.

http://crazyabouttv.com/Images/dinosaurs.jpg

How do you explain them?

1) Not studying the bodies of dead people is good advice and would have saved countless lives through the ages... I don't believe God wanted us to study dead people until we had a good enough understanding to do so.....

Wow.......studying the bodies of the dead is how medical science was born you fucking idiot. The only way we would have good enough understanding is by studying the DEAD FUCKING BODIES. And it was not GOD who eventually let us do that.......the church continued to oppose such practice until THE CHURCH LOST MOST OF ITS POWER.

You are deeply infected with this meme aren't you?

Ok Buttercup, where was your amazing knowledge of meteorology when Katrina hit?? We're so fucking advanced, with your 21st century technology, what a help that turned out to be......

They knew it was coming......knew how bad it was gonna be.....were told to leave......they did not count on the levies breaking, buttercup.

Where was your God?

Are you really trying to argue that meteorolgy does not save lives?

I think the difference here is: as both you and I learn more about ourselves and our world. You see yourself as been the hero, achieving all on your (good boy, well done!). Where as I see myself as the humble student, learning as I go from my teacher...

The difference here is.....you believe your imaginary friend is real.....I do not. That is the most important difference between us. I do not see myself as a hero. I have no hope for most of you christians. You will die as sheep and go to your shepard. I would pity you all if you did not fuck with the secular community so.

Where was your God?

[obscure metal reference]

"How could your God allow them to die?"

*cue heavy as fuck breakdown*

[/obscure metal reference]

*pause*

*Breaks down*

[/thread]

*looks around*

*starts a mosh pit*

[/religion]

The laws of logic, mathematics, science, and morality are all in the bible and they are God's Laws...

The Proof that God exists is that without Him you couldn't prove anything...

Don't forget that they are immaterial, universal, and unchanging as well.

Pro tip: You really should cite your sources. This information was obtained from http://www.proofthatgodexists.org

1) Not studying the bodies of dead people is good advice and would have saved countless lives through the ages... I don't believe God wanted us to study dead people until we had a good enough understanding to do so...


Can you show me some proof for this statement please?

And...if we didn't study them (because we didn't have enough understanding), how would we get the understanding to then study them?