so no ones watching it this season?

Nope.

I'll make a thread every so often, but they get little attention so they're few and far between.

Good season so far - The Boston Celtics are juggernauts and look like they're only going to get better, so I'm pleased with that.
The western conference this year is mindblowing. The 8th seed (at the moment, The Warriors) are only 5 games back from the #1 seed (San Antonio). The New Orleans Hornets are 1 game behind the Spurs. The Trailblazers are playing like they'll win the division, even without the services of Greg Oden. Really, even if you only like basketball a little bit, how could you not watch this season?

Oh and these all star votes are ridiculous. These are the latest results -

East

Forwards: Kevin Garnett (Bos) 1,527,963; LeBron James (Clev) 1,294,019; Chris Bosh (Tor) 411,313; Paul Pierce (Bos) 352,243; Yi Jianlian (Mil) 291,447; Caron Butler (Was) 187,396; Hedo Turkoglu (Orl) 172,720; Tayshaun Prince (Det) 155,502; Josh Smith (Atl) 143,518; Rashard Lewis (Orl) 143,118.

Guards: Dwyane Wade (Mia) 1,019,582; Jason Kidd (NJ) 743,683; Ray Allen (Bos) 617,123; Vince Carter (NJ) 612,543; Gilbert Arenas (Was) 511,763; Chauncey Billups (Det) 331,872; Michael Redd (Mil) 221,777; Richard Hamilton (Det) 163,250; Joe Johnson (Atl) 149,367; Andre Iguodala (Phi) 140, 292.

Centers: Dwight Howard (Orl) 1,260,987; Shaquille O'Neal (Mia) 609,597; Rasheed Wallace (Det) 162,792; Ben Wallace (Chi) 146,332; Andrew Bogut (Mil) 132,469; Jermaine O’Neal (Ind) 120,690; Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Clev) 77,350; Emeka Okafor (Cha) 74,269; Zaza Pachulia (Atl) 58,430; Eddy Curry (NY) 53,084.

West

Forwards: Tim Duncan (SA) 1,049,641; Carmelo Anthony (Den) 1,029,335; Dirk Nowitzki (Dal) 830,970; Carlos Boozer (Utah) 347,899; Shane Battier (Hou) 297,672; Shawn Marion (Pho) 296,917; Josh Howard (Dal) 285,580; Luis Scola (Hou) 279,970; Kevin Durant (Sea) 242,953; Grant Hill (Pho) 209,057.

Guards: Kobe Bryant (LAL) 1,234,111; Tracy McGrady (Hou) 809,395; Allen Iverson (Den) 694,611; Steve Nash (Pho) 684,813; Manu Ginobili (SA) 360,408; Tony Parker (SA) 316,541; Chris Paul (NO) 261,169; Baron Davis (GS) 247,187; Jason Terry (Dal) 218,052; Jerry Stackhouse (Dal) 192,017.

Centers: Yao Ming (Hou) 1,077,244; Amaré Stoudemire (Pho) 583,249; Marcus Camby (Den) 221,527; Erick Dampier (Dal) 184,689; Pau Gasol (Mem) 139,254; Mehmet Okur (Utah) 112,434; Tyson Chandler (NO) 98,424; LaMarcus Aldridge (Por) 93,043; Chris Kaman (LAC) 83,516; Andris Biedrins (GS) 81,611.

Erick Dampier has over twice as many votes as Chris Kaman.

Tracy McGrady is beating Steve Nash by a LOT.

Other than Yi getting so much, the East looks okay, but I'm going to fix the Western Conference for idiot fans.

Guards
Kobe, Nash, Paul, Iverson, I'd have McGrady between 6 and 8.

Forwards
Looks ok, But I'd call #4 a tossup between Boozer, Howard and Marion.. Shane Battier and Luis Scola? Someone tell Houston to get the hell out of the All Star voting.

Centers
Ming/Stoudemire, Kaman/Camby, A close call trying to separate those 2 pairs, but Kaman getting 83 thousand to Dampier's 184 thousand is a joke.

its not a good season this yeah for my squad the 6ers. cant wait for this season to be over hopefully our new gm can pull some nice shit in the off season. and they better fuckig resign iguodala

Igoudala is a good player. But, if the Sixers give Igoudala a deal similar to the one he refused and ends up making in the 13 million/year range, do you really want to see him sucking up that much of your salary? Do you have that much faith in him that he could be your #1 option? I haven't seen that many Philly games, so this really is an honest question and I'd like to know your opinion.

to tell you the truth yes because all he really needs is another go to guy on the team. now what i would really like to see the sixers do is get rid of sammy dalembert and andre miller. they could use lou williams as there starting pg. they have rookie jason smith that has been decent so far this year for there pf and get a new center and sg.

In theory that sounds good but then you have to make it happen, and signing new guys isn't always a good bet. That's what the Celtics tried to do with Paul Pierce, and look what happened there (before Garnett). And Igoudala isn't even as good as Pierce. I mean, sometimes this strategy works, sometimes it doesn't.

I was all ready to be optimistic about Dalembert, and how a lot of NBA teams with better records don't have a center as seemingly competent as him, then I checked out what kind of money he was making. Hoollly shit he's richer than I thought. He's making the money Igoudala should make. So I don't know what you guys are going to do with him, other than pray he can suddenly play like a 10 million dollar player.

yeah dalembert hes a decent center but he is making way too much to nearly foul out everygame. this is only andre's 4th yr wait a couple more and see the numbers he putting up i mean he just started showing his potential last year. and his dunks are so entertaining. and that tfucking stupid ass billy king paying sammy that much im so glad hes gone.

Horrible votes...If Nash isn't in the starting line-up then I won't watch the ALL-Stars, Kobe and NASH deserve the spot...NO ONE else is anywhere as good as Nash and Kobe. Also, Yao Ming? They should ban chinese ppl from voting for his big ass head, T-Mac is just ridiculous, he hasn't even been playing for most of this season and he's got lots of votes-BS

Chris Kaman is now dead last.

THIS Chris Kaman
PPG
17.4
RPG
13.80
BPG
3.1

Has less than HALF as many votes as ERICK DAMPIER HIMSELF
PPG
5.4
RPG
6.80
BPG
1.6

I consider basketball the most boring ass shit to watch in the world.
Like I would rather watch olympic long distance skiing.

Well thanks for showing up then.

I consider basketball the most boring ass shit to watch in the world.
Like I would rather watch olympic long distance skiing.

GTFO troll, don't you have something else to do? perhaps jacking off.

All Star Reserves announced


East
Chauncey Billups, Detroit
Richard Hamilton, Detroit
Chris Bosh, Toronto
Caron Butler. Washington
Antawn Jamison,Washinton
Joe Johnson, Atlanta
Paul Pierce, Boston

West
Chris Paul, New Orleans
David West, New Orleans
Brandon Roy, Portland
Carlos Boozer, Utah
Steve Nash, Phoenix
Amare Stoudamire, Phoenix
Dirk Nowitski, Dallas

So the obvious questions here, who should have made it in instead of Johnson and West?

I would have liked to see Ray Allen get in, but he hasn't really been playing all that great this year. He's been streaky. It's the coaches that vote these guys in, and I don't think a coach will be too inclined to vote for a guy that had a 2-12 shooting night against them last month. More deserving than Joe Johnson, probably Richard Hamilton too.

I'm happy for David West, an overlooked guy and this is his first spot on the all-star roster, but no Baron Davis, or even Shawn Marion? Even Ginobili, Parker, Kaman or Camby? I'm glad he made it but surprised that he did.

Im only watching this season for my rookie star CP3.

the suns are trading marion and banks for shaq, are they fucking retarted? who gives a shit that marion wants to get traded there fucking number 1 in the west why would you dismantle the team in the middle of the season?

I don't know. Maybe Marion is worse than we thought, and maybe Banks has a bad attitude as well (he played in Boston for a while, seemed a little bit shady). At the moment, I have no idea. Maybe Steve Kerr is just an idiot? I'm sure we'll have a better idea of why this trade happened, given time.

I have given it more time. I like it now. Good for Phoenix, great for Miami.

so far the shaq trade does not look good for either team.

It is a little bit early to assume anything.

Best trade on paper, obviously, is Pau Gasol to the Lakers. That one stung.

Well, Jerry West needed to help his team. The Lakers, that is. You didn't think he would be outdone by Kevin Mchale did you?

anybody seen my sixers lately they have actully been winning games and are in the 7th playoff spot. not like thats saying much in the east.

I saw them tonight.
It's tough to figure out how they could make a serious push to go deep in the playoffs next year.. I'm now a believer that Iguodala could be worth more than the contract he turned down, but he doesn't seem to have a great basketball instinct right now. He's not always doing the right thing, and I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable leaving the ball in his hands at the end of games.
The new trend for teams trying to make a push is acquiring as many stars and semi-washed up stars as humanly possible. I don't think this would work for the Sixers. the best possible scenario I can see goes something like this:

Iguodala matures and becomes a strong captain, brings more defensive energy and rounds out his offensive game.

A proven late game scorer is acquired. A nice old veteran with a lot left in tank, preferably, and no headcases.

Louis Williams pans out by picking Andre Millers brain a whole bunch and learning to throw lob passes.. which I feel is an underrated play that Andre Miller really seems to have down. Remember Miller to Anthony in Denver? That worked phenomenally well over and over again. Williams to Iguodala! Do it already!
(unless they really do do this already, I haven't been paying attention.)

More perimeter scoring - They shot 11% on threes tonight. I had a feeling they had been shooting threes poorly all year, so I looked, and I was right - they're last. Again, veterans with some gas left in their tank would be perfect I think.

A better alternative to Dalembert.. I know there's some unrest about him in Philly just from this forum, so he's obviously an issue.. They need an inside defensive guy that can gather up rebounds on either end. But doesn't everybody.

Even if everything goes right, I can't imagine the Sixers making much of a splash for atleast a couple of years, but they have some decent players already.

yeah i think the only players worth keeping are thaddus young lou williams iguodala and miller maby green and dalembrant to maby make him a pf and get a new big man. but the sixers have alot of money for the offseason and a new gm that knows what hes doing other then that fuck tard billy king.

The Rockets are streaking with/ without Yao. 20 consecutive wins (tied for 2nd all time)

We'll see how it can last.

They will be who we thought they were and come down to earth eventually. I'm not sold, the West is too good and Yao Ming is too not playing right now.

I'm not going to predict how many wins they'll have comes season's end or predict what playoff spot they'll have (I don't think they'll be top 4), but they are not enough to win more than one playoff series, in my eyes.

If the Lakers don't get them, the Celtics probably will. If not, the Hornets probably will, next game. then they get Golden State in Oakland. I can't see them possibly slithering through all four of those games unscathed.

Anyone watch the Bulls? wtf happened to them?

edit: srsly last year they has a decent young team wit great d looking to possibly push farther inthe playoffs this year, now they are garbage.

if they let deng walk i will be pissed

damn the sixers are shitting now they beat the spurs. andre miller is looking great he knows when to score and when to pass unlike alot of the younger pg's in the league that only want to score. btw im going to the sixers nuggets game tomorrow cant wait its A.I's first return since the trade.

damn the sixers are shitting now they beat the spurs. andre miller is looking great he knows when to score and when to pass unlike alot of the younger pg's in the league that only want to score. btw im going to the sixers nuggets game tomorrow cant wait its A.I's first return since the trade.

That's a tremendous game to be able to attend. I think Philly could take em, too. I'm starting to come around, I think they may win a playoff series depending on where they land.
I went to a Celtics game this year.. The team is 29-5 at home, and they lost the one I went to! BASTARDS, but it was still a good time..

Anyone watch the Bulls? wtf happened to them?

edit: srsly last year they has a decent young team wit great d looking to possibly push farther inthe playoffs this year, now they are garbage.

if they let deng walk i will be pissed


Really, I don't know. Last time I saw them play, they were dogshit, just didn't care at all. Usually to play good defense, wanting to win makes the biggest difference.

yeah i have the last row of seats in the venue tho i dont give a fuck tho me and my 3 boys are gonna get wrecked and go.

haha houston lost.

Boston won. :p
A night after defeating the defending champs on their home court.
yeah i have the last row of seats in the venue tho i dont give a fuck tho
The one I went to, I had the same seats. Right up against the back wall. It didn't ruin anything, the view was still good, I could recognize every player on the floor.

yeah i could still see everything. it was a great game. A.I got a standing ovation. but im glad to see him lose against the new squad who is now at .500.

The highlights from that game were ridiculous. As good as Iverson is, Enver is fucked this year. They know that they need to play defense, right? Are they trying not to?

The funny thing about the Nuggets that I found out today, they could be considered the worst defensive team of all time. The 90-91 Nuggets allowed 131 points per game, which is the record. They won 20 games that year. The 2nd, 4th, 6th and 7th worst of all time are all Nuggets teams, from 1980 to 1984. The Nuggets are just destined to suck at defense forever, but shouldn't they know by now to work on it a little bit?

yeah well no one on there team really is known as a defensive player. a.i is that fucking dude tho it would be the shit if the sixers got him back in the offseason he is gonna be a free agent. i thought we were gonna lose last couple seconds tho. iguodala did that circus shot were lucky dalembert was there to clean it up.

I wish more than 2 people wanted to get in on this thread. No one I know gives 2 shits about basketball.

I would shit a brick if Iverson went back. But it would make sense for him - His odds of winning a ring are much better on a decent Eastern team than a run of the mill West team.

yeah during the press confrence he said how he loves philly and wants to end his term here and how hes not gonna sell his house here now so it gives me hope...

Lakers > Celtics in the finals

end thread.

Lakers are going to lose to either the Spurs or Jazz in seven. Bynum coming back will be hyped as hell, but the Lakers would be better off if they didn't bring him back until next year, but they won't, so they'll lose in either the semis or finals.

I still think the Celtics aren't built for a 7 game series against the Pistons or Cavs. I'm leaning towards the Pistons coming out of the east right now.

Lakers are going to lose to either the Spurs or Jazz in seven. Bynum coming back will be hyped as hell, but the Lakers would be better off if they didn't bring him back until next year, but they won't, so they'll lose in either the semis or finals.

I still think the Celtics aren't built for a 7 game series against the Pistons or Cavs. I'm leaning towards the Pistons coming out of the east right now.

Man.. I know the Cavs are your team and all, but they are 40-30. They can't beat a 60+ win team that just got done decimating a cupcake 8th seed. Especially not when the team has homecourt advantage (Celtics are 29-5 in Boston, Cavs are 16-20 on the road). The chances of the Cavaliers beating the Celtics in the second round are similar to the chances that the Warriors had for beating the Mavs last year. It happened, but it was really damn unlikely. Not only that, but 08 Celtics > 07 Mavs, and last years Warriors may have been better than this year's Cavs.
Maybe next year, if Lebron gets good help finally. I hate watching him play on that shitty team, it's like Beethoven conducting Good Charlotte. Every other great player in the league (not named Dwyane Wade, but atleast he got a ring out of it) has decent help except for him.

Cavs won the season series against the Celtics and the only game the Celtics won Lebron wasn't playing in.

Just saying...

Records go out the window in the playoffs.

No one thought Golden State had a chance against Dallas last year either.

Cavs have had injuries all year and should finally be healthy around the playoffs. Gibson coming back will get us our best shooter back, and we'll have our full complement of guards at our disposal.

I'm just saying, Cleveland is the last team Boston wants to meet in the playoffs, and Lebron knows that. They have no one to match up with Lebron defensively, where as the Cavs do match up well with the Celtics on defense.

Cavs won the season series against the Celtics and the only game the Celtics won Lebron wasn't playing in.

Just saying...

Records go out the window in the playoffs.

Maybe so, but Cleveland is 15.5 games behind the Celtics. I wonder how many teams have won a 7 game series with that much distance between them.. Probably not many. I don't think the Cavs are the exception, especially since their lineup has been Frankensteined again with Wally, Delonte and Ben Wallace thrown into the mix. You can't beat a great team like Boston without cohesion.
No one thought Golden State had a chance against Dallas last year either.

Actually, some people were giving the Warriors a chance, because they had beaten the Mavs during the season. This is what made me think of comparing the two matchups - Some people will be giving the Cavs a chance when they actually have a very small one.

I'm just saying, Cleveland is the last team Boston wants to meet in the playoffs, and Lebron knows that. They have no one to match up with Lebron defensively, where as the Cavs do match up well with the Celtics on defense.

Yeah you're right here. We'll see though. It's not unreasonable to give the Cavs a shot at beating the Celtics, but it's clear that they would be going in as big time underdogs.

I don't think they'd be big time underdogs.

They'd have by far the best player in the series who has shown he's clutch(on the other hand none of the big three have shown they're clutch in the playoffs).

He's the unquestioned leader, where as that question still remains unanswered, regardless of what the Boston press says. They say Garnett now, but we'll see how willing Pierce, the Boston mainstay, is willing to give up the ball come play off time, especially against Lebron who he doesn't really like(and Lebron doesn't like Pierce either).

I like how we match up defensively with Boston. Wallace on Garnett, Lebron on Pierce, West on Rondo, and Sasha on Allen. Lebron can switch between Allen and Pierce depending on who is doing better. I think we match up well with them up and down the lineup. I think Varejao and Wallace could really give Garnett fits on the defensive end. They won't stop him, but they'll definitely frustrate him A LOT.

Same thing goes for the Pistons. I think they, like the Cavs, are built for playoff basketball. Good post players and good depth go a long way in a seven game series.

Another factor will be coaching. Doc Rivers might get coach of the year, but every Boston fan knows he was on a short leash before this trade. Will he be able to make adjustments in a tight series? We'll see.

I won't comment on everything right now, but I don't know if Lebron is "by far" better than Kevin Garnett. Better, yes, but not by a huge huge margin I don't think. Give it 2-3 years, James will probably be better by far. Keep in mind Garnett is a front runner for Defensive player of the year as well.

And about an unquestioned leader.. I'd rather have a team without a standout leader than a team with a standout leader and not much else. If you think the Celtics have no depth, I don't know what team you've been watching. Every single player has fit into their role perfectly, and not one player has caused any kind of doubt in the fans. We are so satisfied with our roster, top to bottom, there is no "what if he doesn't pan out" or "what if so and so makes a stupid play again." The depth in the team is what is making people change their opinion about the Celtics and putting them back in contention.

And about clutch - Paul Pierce had arguably the clutchest playoff moment in NBA history when he led the largest come from behind win ever against the Nets. He had the spotty moment against the Pacers, but really Paul has been on such shit teams that is hasn't been possible for him to take those big shots.

Biggest clutch moment in playoff history?

I'm sorry, but the most clutch moment in NBA history didn't happen in the Eastern Conference Finals.

Hell, I would argue that Lebron's game five against the Pistons in last years eastern conference finals was way more clutch. 29 of his team's last 30 points. 48 overall. Not to mention the clutch shots.

When was the last time Pierce made a last second shot to tie or win?

I also hope the Celtics team thinks all the Cavs have is Lebron.

Even if that was true though, Lebron is still good enough to beat the big three of Boston singlehandedly.

Celtics down 21 after three quarters, Pierce scored 19 points in the 4th, Celtics win. That has to rank in the top 5. It was the biggest deficit overcome in a playoff game - you really can't take anything away from that.


When was the last time Pierce made a last second shot to tie or win?

A better question is, when is that last time he even had to take one? Like I said, you don't need last second shots to win if you're winning by 10+ a game.


Even if that was true though, Lebron is still good enough to beat the big three of Boston singlehandedly.
It's not about a big 3 anymore. It's the entire roster, top to bottom. Nobody in Boston that watches the games gives a rat's ass about a big 3 anymore. Every game there is an X-Factor guy on the Celtics that steps up. Rondo flirts with a triple double and makes the other PG look foolish. Leon Powe gets 20 points in 25 minutes. Glen Davis beasts Tim Duncan. Eddie House shoots daggers when they're already up by 24.
For comparison, you mentioned the Cavs having a "full complement of guards"? Sasha Pavlovic is a starter. He ain't getting anyone over the hump.

But Glen Davis, Rajon Rondo, Leon Powe, and Eddie House are?

Come on now.

That comeback game doesn't even rank top five best/most famous NBA playoff games of all time.

Hell, there are probably five games between the Celtics/Lakers alone during the 80's that are more famous/better. Not to mention the Jordan era Bulls(flu game anyone?). Then there's an assortment of other finals moments that would definitely rank higher.

I'm not saying it's a bad moment, but I think you overrate it as a Boston fan.

I overrate what Lebron did in game five of the Pistons series last year, but I wouldn't call it a top five playoff moment, let alone the best of all time.

But Glen Davis, Rajon Rondo, Leon Powe, and Eddie House are?

Come on now.

In a Cavs/Celtics series, Rondo is the 2nd best guard behind Ray Allen.
Eddie House is nearly a 40% 3 Point shooter. He's 5th in 3's per 48 minues. He comes in the game and is asked to do one thing, get buckets, and he does. He scores as much as Pavlovic in fewer minutes. Pavlovic can't shoot a lick this year, his percentages are appalling compared to last year, and he's started almost every game he's played? This is a key part of the Cav's "full complement of guards," meanwhile Boston has better guys coming off their bench? What does Pavlovic actually do for 24.2 minutes a night?

As for Powe and Davis.. Well, they were just examples. They have big nights like what I posted above - Davis did beast Duncan, and Powe does get buckets and rebounds like his life depends on it. By no means do they do this every night, but if they don't, Rondo is, or Perkins, or House, or Posey, or Cassell, or Tony Allen.. It's shocking. We had no idea it would be this good.


I'm not saying it's a bad moment, but I think you overrate it as a Boston fan.

I overrate what Lebron did in game five of the Pistons series last year, but I wouldn't call it a top five playoff moment, let alone the best of all time.

Yes, I probably did overrate it as a Boston fan. But really, people think of clutch moments, and usually a clutch moment boils down to one field goal or a steal + a bucket. That 4th quarter was pure tenacity and a ton of clutch baskets, not just one. I say that tells you a lot more about a player than one fluke basket.
But yes, Lebron in game 5 last year was better. I forgot about that. But, if I were to argue it, I'd say that when Lebron went off, the Cavs were still in the game - Pierce led his team back into it when it looked like they had no chance.

But, no I won't argue it, Lebron was better.

A lot of people aren't really into stats, and that they don't tell the whole story.. So just take this with a grain of salt if you want.
I wanted to check out just how awful your starting shooting guard has been this season, and what I found was really much more scary than I thought it would be.

I'm sure you're familiar with the efficiency stat. The one that culls together every major stat and percentage and basically melts it all together. Your starting shooting guard that can't shoot is 412th in efficiency per 48 minutes. 412th! Brain Scalabrine, buried on the Boston bench, is 411th. Pavlovic and Scal are in the mire with Smush Parker, Jarron Collins, Malik Rose, and a smattering of rookies. Brian Scalabrine is not a part of our complement of forwards. Pavlovic is starting!

Effieciency isn't naturally a per 48 minute stat. Pavlovic's efficiency is +5.91 in 24.2 minutes. So let's see how awful that Boston bench is.

Pavlovic - +5.91 - 24.2
T. Allen - +6.56 - 18.2
House - +7.68 - 19.0
Davis - +5.3 - 13.1
Powe - +7.67 - 12.7
Posey - +9.67 - 24.3

Let's see those two other starters too, since they suck as well.

Perkins - +12.11 - 24.8
Rondo - +13.94 - 30.4

Tony Allen, arguably our worst rotation player, gets more done in less minutes than your starting shooting guard. And Tony is one of our best defensive players, contributing a lot of stuff that doesn't show up in stats.

5 guys coming off the Celtics bench leave Pavlovic in the dust. Keep in mind, those guys in Boston have 3 major offensive players to share the ball with, and one of the top rebounders in the game, and they still find ways to get those kind of numbers. While keeping up the best defense the league has seen in a long time.
And Boston doesn't have any depth.

The same shooting guard that didn't go through pre-season or the first part of the season then had an injury just as he was getting things going?

Just making sure we're talking about the same one here.

Man I have to be honest with you, I feel like a douchebag for even wasting my time and digging up all those stats. If you're going to like your team, I'm not going to stop you, and you're not going to block my opinions off either.

And about Pavlovic getting injured.. He's played 45 games, I would think that's enough time to shake the cobwebs out, unless he was playing when he really wasn't ready yet.. And considering he started 42 of those games, he must be pretty valuable to what the Cavs are trying to do, rust or not.

And to be fair, I looked up the stats of the other Cavs players, and Pavlovic is by far the worst guy that they have right now, according to the numbers, so it's a little unfair to pick on that guy.. But I still find the "full complement" of guards thing pretty funny. I mean, this is what you guys have:

Gibson
West
Devin Brown
Eric Snow
Damon Jones
Pavlovic

I see a few good outside shooters, nothing else. I just don't understand why you'd consider Cleveland's guards a strength. I truly would take the Celtics' 2 guards coming off the bench over the Cavs best two, so I don't see how any matchup could favor Cleveland.

It's becoming a pet peeve of mine for people to cut down the Celtics bench. It has been outstanding. As of 2/6/08, the Celtics +/- score for their bench players was 1st in the league: +448. Every one of the guys has been above and beyond. Cleveland, if you were wondering, is -22, which isn't particularly bad, but it's not 1st in the league either.

It wasn't about how many games he's played, it's about his conditioning when he played those games. If you miss training camp or you suffer a sever ankle sprain, you don't play at a peak level right away.

I'm not dismissing your stats outright, but you didn't consider his injury or contract holdout in the first post containing stats, when those are obviously relevant points to the discussion.

Doubt the Cavs guards all you want. I still doubt the Celtics depth. There's no way Leon Powe or Glen Davis are giving a lot of minutes come playoff time unless it's foul trouble, and if they are playing a lot of minutes, they won't be contributing a lot stat wise.

The Cavs have been in playoff situations before. These Pistons haven't. They're still a year away IMO.

It wasn't about how many games he's played, it's about his conditioning when he played those games. If you miss training camp or you suffer a sever ankle sprain, you don't play at a peak level right away.

I'm not dismissing your stats outright, but you didn't consider his injury or contract holdout in the first post containing stats, when those are obviously relevant points to the discussion.

I admit, I didn't factor that in. So do you expect Pavlovic to come roaring back come playoff time, or is there some doubt there? And if he hasn't been playing at a peak level, do you think he probably shouldn't have started as many games as he did and played all those minutes? Does it sort of suck that the Cavs didn't have a better option than a gimpy guy that needed conditioning when they're trying to rack up wins?

Doubt the Cavs guards all you want. I still doubt the Celtics depth. There's no way Leon Powe or Glen Davis are giving a lot of minutes come playoff time unless it's foul trouble, and if they are playing a lot of minutes, they won't be contributing a lot stat wise.

They won't be expected to play a lot of minutes. They will probably hover right around their averages unless one of them gets hot.
Besides, Big Baby and Powe, as I said before, were just examples, to show that even the minor guys are playing outstanding. Both of them play less minutes than almost any Celtic. The guys off the bench that are truly key are Cassell, House, and Posey. 3 rings between them, lots of experience, all solid guys.

The Cavs have been in playoff situations before. These Celtics haven't. They're still a year away IMO.

I assume you meant Celtics so I fixed it. This is a valid point, I think it's really the only thing you can detract from them at this point. This is what I think might stop them against the Pistons, but probably not the Cavs in my opinion. Atleast we should have a better perspective on each others teams once this is all said and done.

I
He's the unquestioned leader, where as that question still remains unanswered, regardless of what the Boston press says. They say Garnett now, but we'll see how willing Pierce, the Boston mainstay, is willing to give up the ball come play off time, especially against Lebron who he doesn't really like(and Lebron doesn't like Pierce either).


I missed this earlier, so I'll comment just to give you some insight on what I think is going on.

Garnett is the energy guy. He is the guy that gets the crowd into it and pulls the team through more with his will than his play. He's the inspirer.

Pierce leads with his play. He is viewed as the clutch player by most people. He's the guy that will drive through the lane and draw a foul in the 4th when points are needed. He is the Captain, and Garnett has made it clear (to the media, atleast) that it is Paul Pierce's team. Pierce rides on cockiness and confidence, and he knows that no one on the team is interested in usurping him at all.


Allen is the composure guy. I think it's clear that he's not top tier as long as Paul and Kevin are playing, and that's one reason why it has worked so well. Ray has had to adjust more than anyone, and I don't think he has any interest in his stats anymore, who knows if he ever did. Right off the start he has been setting an example for a lot of the young guys, particularly Rondo, and Ray could be the #1 reason Rajon can now hit jumpers regularly. Allen may even be more clutch than Pierce - he has had huge plays this season.

So it comes down to Pierce and Garnett I suppose. I give Pierce the advantage. The guys that have been on the team for a while are used to Pierce being the leader.

As for Pierce against Lebron, yeah, I would think Paul would want to bring his best against him. So if a big shot is needed at the end against Cleveland, I would bet on it that he would be taking the shot or giving the assist.

How about Nowitzki's injury? That looked really rugged. Even before his ass hit the ground I knew it was bad.. The initial response was that he would be out for 2 weeks, but I think he may be gone a little bit longer..

So making the playoffs or not? I have been hoping that the Mavs would fall out, Denver would be a more interesting team to see in there. Sucks that it had to happen like this.

I admit, I didn't factor that in. So do you expect Pavlovic to come roaring back come playoff time, or is there some doubt there? And if he hasn't been playing at a peak level, do you think he probably shouldn't have started as many games as he did and played all those minutes? Does it sort of suck that the Cavs didn't have a better option than a gimpy guy that needed conditioning when they're trying to rack up wins?

Mike Brown, for whatever reason, thought it best to put him in the starting lineup right when he came back since he was the starter.

Another thing you never really considered was that just because Sasha was a starter, that doesn't mean he got the most minutes. Devin Brown had been getting a ton of Sasha's minutes. Gibson will cut into those minutes a little bit as well when he comes back. Just because he started games doesn't mean he was finishing them.



They won't be expected to play a lot of minutes. They will probably hover right around their averages unless one of them gets hot.
Besides, Big Baby and Powe, as I said before, were just examples, to show that even the minor guys are playing outstanding. Both of them play less minutes than almost any Celtic. The guys off the bench that are truly key are Cassell, House, and Posey. 3 rings between them, lots of experience, all solid guys.

And are those bench guys all that better than Szczberiak, Varejao, Joe Smith, Daniel Gibson, Devin Brown, and Damon Jones?

I mean, none of those three players are going to decide a series at this point in their career.

Mike Brown, for whatever reason, thought it best to put him in the starting lineup right when he came back since he was the starter.

Another thing you never really considered was that just because Sasha was a starter, that doesn't mean he got the most minutes. Devin Brown had been getting a ton of Sasha's minutes. Gibson will cut into those minutes a little bit as well when he comes back. Just because he started games doesn't mean he was finishing them.

I had considered the minute's he's played, I even posted it in an earlier post, I think it was 24.2 per game. Still not a ton but.. eh. Devin Brown? Doesn't do anything for me either. But I'm sort of venturing into unfamiliar territory, so I'll just stop. You probably know 700x more about Devin Brown than me. All I know is what I'm skeptical about, and a lot of people that don't live in Ohio share the same skepticism.




And are those bench guys all that better than Szczberiak, Varejao, Joe Smith, Daniel Gibson, Devin Brown, and Damon Jones?

I mean, none of those three players are going to decide a series at this point in their career.

Of course Cassell can. Didn't he just do it two years ago, against stiffer competition? Wasn't Posey key in the Heat's title run, very recently, and he's not that old?
Baah either way, I'm through trashing the Cavs' guys. Of course you know more about your players than I do. I could probably tell you more about Wally (not the same Wally as he used to be, didn't win over a lot of people in Boston) or Delonte West (won over TONS of people in Boston, awesome guy but not really an outstanding point guard, not quite an adequate starter on a contender), that's about it. I just always thought if you're going to beat a 60+ win team, atleast get a really good PG.

Cavs managed last year without any point guard, so with one this year I think we'll be somewhat better.

Most importantly though having West will help us defensively. We'll be able to mix and match a lot more defensively.

how bout them sixers celtics fans?

how bout them sixers celtics fan?

fixed

..

Well that loss sucked. I can't remember being more disappointed with the Celtics all year, they just didn't have it.
One small thing to note - Garnett Pierce and Allen played 32, 32, and 33 minutes. They took 29 of the Celtics 75 attempted field goals. Miller and Iguodala played 45 and 43 minutes, attempting 37 of Philly's 72 shots. It's obvious that the Celtics were taking it easy, and it was a little bit disappointing in that way. They let this one get away, and it all felt sour to me.

Leon Powe - 16 and 7 in 21 minutes.

The Sixers are good. There's a chance that they could be the 4th or 5th best team in the East next year if they keep it up, and I believe in these guys a little bit more than I believed in the Rockets when they were streaking. They played it very calm and deliberately, focused and kept their heads on straight. It's awesome that they don't play scared in the face of good teams like a lot of other young teams.

Fisher, Bryant, Odom, Gasol, Bynum + a solid bench

seriously can we just end this thread the Lakers are going to run it in the playoffs.

Yep they have a shot. People have seemed to cool off on them lately, can't figure out why. They haven't really slumped that badly yet.
The competition is really so intense in the West that no one can definitively pick a frontrunner. I don't see the Lakers having that much more of a shot than the Spurs, Jazz, Suns or Hornets. And even then, they have the Celtics or Pistons to deal with.

the sixers are shitting on the bulls right now.

I'm watching the games on TNT right now, and I'm shocked that the Nuggets can let the Mavs get 70 points in the first half without Dirk, knowing how important this game is for them. This. Is. Bullshit. I want the Nuggets to make it in over the Mavs, but if they can't even get it done then fuck em, they don't deserve it.

.. And now they've only allowed the Mavs 21 points in 17.5 minutes... George Karl must know how to choke a bitch at halftime.

Fisher, Bryant, Odom, Gasol, Bynum + a solid bench

seriously can we just end this thread the Lakers are going to run it in the playoffs.

Pau Gasol + Playoffs = tears

So everything looks pretty much tied up for the East now, it will probably look like this

Boston - Atlanta
Detroit - Philly/Toronto
Orlando - Toronto/Philly
Cleveland - Washington

Boston should sweep the Hawks, so 5 games tops there.

Detroit will beat the 7th seed, Probably having a frustrating game here and there but winning them. I'm interested in seeing what Toronto can do but I'm losing faith in Chris Bosh a bit (not that I had much from the start). His team rebounds pretty dismally, and he needs to grab a few here and there. Detroit has 4-5 guys that will destroy them (especially Chris) with rebounds.
The Sixers would probably give them more trouble, now that I've thought about it. But they probably can't win more than 2 games against the Pistons. It would be nice if they could.

It doesn't feel like I've seen the Magic play that much. I don't have a good read on them. I know Philly and Toronto both have better guards. So I don't know. I can't imagine who's on their bench of the top of my head. But eh they should win a playoff series I guess. They are the best Magic in quite some time so I'm sure they're feeling pretty good about that..

I think Cleveland beats Washington too. It seems like it's been a bit leveled off, like people think the Wizards have a better chance since the Cavaliers haven't been playing so hot. I can just see the Cavs defending better. The Wizards can't deal with Lebron, not in a playoff series like this. There are probably only two teams in the East that can, and unfortunately for Cleveland, they would have to beat both of those teams to get to the finals again.. But the Wizards, not a problem.

And I would get into who MVP should be but I melted my brain and need to shut up. And I'm not sure who it should be anyway. Go ahead and argue about it without me

edit- No, on second thought, give Kobe MVP, Byron Scott Coach of the Year, and KG Defensive Player of the Year. Everyone wins. Now that I think about it, I would have a bit of a problem if the awards turned out differently than this (but Paul winning MVP, I could live with that.)

So what's left
6th Man - Manu
Rookie - Durant
Most Improved - Ah shit, I don't know. Turkoglu doesn't seem to want it. Rajon Rondo would be my homer pick that would never happen, and probably doesn't deserve to happen (though I've heard him mentioned, not just by Boston people).. I have no answer right now.

Just out of curiosity though, I checked out how Rondo and Turkoglu compare, in terms of improvedness

Hedo +6.4 pts
Rajon +4.2 pts

Hedo +6.2 minutes
Rajon +6.4 minutes

Hedo +1.8 rpg
Rajon +0.5 rpg

Hedo +1.8 apg
Rajon +1.3 apg

Hedo +3.4% FG
Rajon +7.4% FG

-
Hedo - Silly amount of turnovers, claims he was always this good (which, when you think about it.. The numbers are skewed because I'm comparing them to last year, which was kind of an off year for him.. He's scoring more but he was never a slouch to begin with)
Rajon - Still sucks from 3 and free throw line, and is still sort of a 4th banana guy.

+
Hedo - Boosted every other shooting percentage too, is flat out more improved than Rondo so the argument is pointless..
Rajon - Is an integral piece of the best team in the league, making ridiculous amounts of jumpshots that people didn't think he was capable of making (FG% is 11th among guards... The entire season has come and gone, I think it's now safe to say he can shoot).. and still a well above average defender.

The case can be made.. I can't figure who would be between these two guys, but there are probably some good players I'm forgetting about.

Oh and if any of you people think I'm some moronic homer or anything like that, anyone else here is allowed to type up glowing exaggerations about their home team players.. But they don't.

West

Dallas > NO
Utah > Houston
LA > Denver
Phoenix > SA

Phoenix > Dallas

Lakers/Jazz is tough. I guess Lakers, but I wouldn't be shocked to be wrong either. If The Jazz win this series, the Suns go to the finals, but if the Suns meet the Lakers that's another tough call. Slight, tiny, microscopic edge to Phoenix if that happens.

I'd get into the Eastern 2nd Round and beyond, but I have it the same way just about everyone else does. Boston > Detroit

No one?

Game of the year? anybody around?

Hell what was the last game that was that good? Not even just in this season, how far back do you have to go?

yeah im still here all the games yesterday were pretty good besides sa beating phoenix :(. my team plays today lets see what they got against the pistons. i think we might have a chance because our bench is alot better and has alot more energy then detroit's.

Pau Gasol + Playoffs = tears

Your math is wrong.
Memphis + NBA = Tears

Just wait until Gasol is trying to guard Amare(maybe even O'Neal) or Duncan instead.

He'll wilt.

igoudalas about to put the icing on the cake...

Holy Shit They Beat The Pistons Hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahah!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

andre miller MVP
mo cheeks coach of the year
dont mind me im shitfaced for 420 and really happy.

Philly kicked ass. It's rare to see Detroit repeatedly fail like that, over and over again. I got a kick out of it. Hope they can close it out.

Just wait until Gasol is trying to guard Amare(maybe even O'Neal) or Duncan instead.

He'll wilt.

So his math wasn't wrong, but he could have been more right.
Still, I'm not so convinced that Pau having a collapse would even be the end of the Lakers (as long as it's not against the Celtics). This is the best team he's played on. I'm not worried about the Lakers chances at all.

I would be, especially against a team like Phoenix. If Amare goes off, it could be a long night for Gasol and Turiaf. That's not even considering the fact that Shaq is playing better of late. The Spurs also could give LA's frontcourt some trouble IMO.

The Laker's backcourt should be able to make it very close, but in playoff series I tend to go with who dominates down low.

I hope you're enjoying the Cavs right now. They're making Washington look awful and I love it. I wanted a tight series so they'd be a little worn down for the Celtics, but the more I watch the more I want a sweep.

WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU GUYS EVEN TALKING ABOUT THE EASTERN CONFERENCE.

bunch of rookies

WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU GUYS EVEN TALKING ABOUT THE EASTERN CONFERENCE.

bunch of rookies

cause thats where im from. i dont hop on the westcoast's dick cause its better.

There really haven't been any good first round matchups so far this year.

Philly and Detroit has the best potential.

I've been really disappointed in Houston so far. Denver could still take some games from LA if they get their shit together defensively.

Not much intrigue so far.

Best series will likely be in the second round, with likely Boston-Cleveland and New Orleans/San Antonio and LA/Utah.

Both those series should be must watch tv, and Lebron against the big three will be good as well.

I'm getting quite a bit of glee out of Atlanta and Washington getting thrashed, and Detroit dropping game one.
Chris Paul is making his series worth watching, as is Dwight Howard..
Spurs/Suns is still interesting, and if game one didn't entertain you I don't know what the hell would..
So I'm enjoying most of it. It infuriates me to watch Toronto play and I wish the Suns would get it together, and Houston/Utah is pretty much dead already, but not bad overall.
Houston/Utah is pretty much dead already

Just for the record, this could end up being the dumbest thing I've ever said on Totse.

Suns down 0-3 = sucks. I guess it doesn't matter, since I'd rather not see them win it all anyways... Still, this had all time great first round series potential.
As long as Bibby and the Hawks keep getting whipped I guess I'm cool.

By the way- The Sixers are badass. Even the one that grabbed Kaman's junk.

Suns down 0-3 = sucks. I guess it doesn't matter, since I'd rather not see them win it all anyways... Still, this had all time great first round series potential.
As long as Bibby and the Hawks keep getting whipped I guess I'm cool.

By the way- The Sixers are badass. Even the one that grabbed Kaman's junk.

sixers are going to win this series. there too fast for detroit's old and slow team. i am a little dissappointed in iguodala not really playing that well. he turned down a 50 mill contract at the beginning of the year. and by the way hes playing in the playoffs i doubt they will up the contract for him. btw who grabbed his dick? and reggie evans is a beast i love the energy he brings off the bench.

btw who grabbed his dick? and reggie evans is a beast

It's like you subliminally knew who it was going to be.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=QFcinlrgojk

It's like you subliminally knew who it was going to be.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=QFcinlrgojk

hahahahahahahahahahahaha that's nuts

That James-Gibson-Delonte-Wallace-Ilgauskas lineup looks pretty nice, on further viewing.

And seeing Delonte West reminded me of something. You know what else is a good lineup, on paper?
Delonte, Pierce, Rondo, Jefferson, Powe, Perkins, Gomes, Glen Davis and the 2007 #5 pick.
Or maybe the #5 pick, Telfair, and Szczerbiak could have been shipped away for another solid guy.
And maybe we still could have had Posey.
Or maybe I'm just losing my fucking mind because the Celtics let the Hawks beat them.

philly is shitting on detroit. detroit is going home early this season.

Deep down you knew the Pistons were going to wake up. But that doesn't mean they won't fall asleep again.
I can't think of a better point guard to put up against Billups than Andre Miller.

fuckin bizzare playoffs, Philly/Detroit is the most competitive series.. The 1st round in the west, so hyped up (and rightfully so), might see three 4-1 series and a sweep.

Deep down you knew the Pistons were going to wake up. But that doesn't mean they won't fall asleep again.
I can't think of a better point guard to put up against Billups than Andre Miller.

fuckin bizzare playoffs, Philly/Detroit is the most competitive series.. The 1st round in the west, so hyped up (and rightfully so), might see three 4-1 series and a sweep.

yeah i knew it but i did not expect them to lose a 10 point lead within 3 mins of the 3rd 1/4 i am very dissappointed.

Ugh. God dammit I'm appalled. The Celtics have no chance.

But how great does round 2 look right now?

NO/SA
LA/Utah
Orlando/Detroit
Celtics/Cavs

Yeah, I do think the Celtics will win game 7 on Sunday, but it doesn't matter... They're screwed. Absolutely fucked. Doc Rivers needs to get the fuck out and Paul Pierce needs to grow the fuck up and be a captain. Neither of these things will happen in these playoffs, so the Celtics are fucked up the ass. I really want them to beat the Cavs. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. I'm not so sure anymore. I think if Boston steals ONE road game, they will win in 7, if not, they're out in 6. Unless they sweep Cleveland, I don't see them having the confidence/toughness to beat Detroit. No chance.

Or Orlando. I think they have a shot.

The west.. I don't feel like getting into it right now.
Is anyone not pulling for New Orleans? What kind of crazy unstable motherfucker would you have to be to want the Spurs to win this series??


edit, I'm watching a pregame show, and it showed a clip of Doc Rivers saying THIS

"our first big test [for the playoffs] is winning a game 7"

no. The test is over and you guys failed. The test should have been "don't let the Hawks win a game, crush them." They didn't fuck them up, they should have, now this test of over and they're heading into second semester with an F, Game 7 win or not. If they happen to get an A+ against Cleveland (not likely), all they have is a C.
"our first big test [for the playoffs] is winning a game 7"
Is what MIKE FUCKING WOODSON should be (and probably IS) saying.
This guy needs to get the fuck outta here. And he needs to take Sam Cassell back to his home planet on his way out. God I'm disgusted.

Delonte West had 4 blocks. I miss that guy on the Celtics. Not a great player or anything but he'd really fit in with this system. If this were some bizzaro world where they could trade West for Cassell straight up they should go for it. No, I'm not going to fall in love with Sam for making a few shots, or the Celtics for winning a few games. Like I said, wait until Cleveland.
On second thought that trade makes even less sense given the age thing. but eh, that wasn't really the point.

I'm beginning to think New Orleans will be in the finals.

Fuck N.O its all about L.A. you think kobe is going to let his team lose the year he wins MVP??? doubt it.

I think it would motivate Kobe more to not win MVP, wouldn't it?
Either way I'm not definitively saying New Orleans will beat SA, or either of them will beat LA, or even that Utah won't come back. I'm getting really tired of predictions at this point. But New Orleans may give the Lakers more problems than I originally thought.

I need real life people to talk about the nba with. Anti social people aren't big on sports.

I'm not the type of person to get down on my team when things are rough and act like nothing happened when they start winning. I'm still pissed about Atlanta. It's unacceptable to save 2-3 of your 5 worst games of the year for the playoffs, and I'll be thinking of it all the way to the finals if they make it.
Sweeping Cleveland won't happen. Lebron James will get 30+ atleast once. But I feel like I've been pretty much right about the Cavs all along, other than their front line, which I underestimated. People in Cleveland are shitting themselves right now.

"
-I feel embarrassed. We all should. We let ourselves be deluded into thinking that this team could win again in the playoffs despite not having the first clue how to run an offense. Shame on us. Our first clue should have been when this team lost a playoff game by 40 points in the first round. Championship teams don’t do that. Good teams don’t do that. How dare we pretend like this team could be an elite team. They barely won more games than they lost. They rarely looked like a good team, let alone a championship caliber team. Sure, they had those rare games where everything clicked and they looked unstoppable. Somehow I think we let that get in the way of what was really happening. The saying goes “Fool me once, shame on you….fool me twice, shame on me.” Well, the Wizards blowout was the first one. This is the second one. And I’m done being fooled. The Cavaliers are a mediocre basketball team with one transcendent superstar. All year long I’ve said how unfair it is of this organization to lean so heavily on LeBron, and now we were are finally seeing the side effects of it. LeBron can’t do this all by himself, especially when he’s not making his shots. We can all take hope in the fact that the Cavs have been in this position before and won…..but more often than not when they’ve been in this position, they’ve lost. Yes, they’re going home where they are much better. Yes, the Hawks came back on this same Celtics team after losing the first 2 games. Yes, LeBron is bound to bounce back and start making an impact on this series. But I’m just tired of putting my hope in this head coach and in this roster. My spirit has been broken by a Boston franchise once again. Congrats to you, Boston. Lets just hope the Cavaliers players’ spirits are much more resolute than my own.

Holy Christ. Two games in and this is what's happening in Cleveland? I feel better about the Cavs than this guy does.
The Cavaliers will win game 3 if they can keep it close I think. If they let it get out of control in the 3rd quarter (the Celtics are unusually great in the 3rd), no way. So if the Celtics win, it should be by a lot, if the Cavs win it'll be a tight one. goddamn useless ignorant predictions.

Yeah the Celtics are sucking. They've played 93 games and they've decided to save 4-5 of their worst games for the playoffs. Can you fuckin believe that?! Go back and read that sentence again. 93...... 4-5.... playoffs... hm... Can you fuckin believe that?! Has this ever happened?? All year they've been tearing the NBA a new asshole, like, on nearly historic levels, and they pick the PLAYOFFS to start this shit? Can someone infuse some logic into this situation to me??
I'm not even giving the opposition credit for some of these games. The Celtics just suck ass right now, plain and simple.

It's the Cavs defense. The Cavs played Boston well during the regular season, so this shouldn't surprise you.

Lebron, even though he's playing like shit, is still the best player on the floor at all times. Szczerbiak's size and strength has really bothered Allen. Allen isn't as quick as he used to be, so he can't just run away from the bigger Szczerbiak. So whenever Allen gets the ball, the tall and lanky Szczerbiak is right there to contest any shot. Varejao is doing a good job on Garnett in isolation. The Cavs are sagging on Rondo, daring him to take shots, and so far he's taken them up on that offer.

The Celtics' plan of doubling Lebron has slightly backfired now that the other Cavs are hitting shots. Ilgauskas has been money on the 18 footers, and has even shown the ability to pump fake to get his defender(usually Perkins) in the air and drive to the lane. Joe Smith has been dependable on the outside jumper, and Daniel Gibson rarely has bad shooting nights. Szczerbiak and Delonte West have even gotten into the game of hitting some outside shots.

It's pretty stunning to me that Lebron can play so tentatively and so passively, yet the Cavs have still been able to have a blowout and a fairly decisive win last night.

The Celtics haven't been playing good either, but a ton of that goes to the Cavs defense. Mike Brown is a damn good defensive coach. Last year the Cavs were one of the best defensive teams in the league. Injuries and the trade obviously hurt our defensive statistics this year, but you can still see that defense is what wins the Cavs games.

Nah, I exaggerated and was wrong, the Cavs defense has been good, and that 4th quarter yesterday was especially great..

.. But if Boston hadn't decided to wait until the playoffs to play their worst basketball of the year, it would be a different story right now..
Do you (or anyone, helloooooo....?) suppose the Pistons would rather play Boston at this point? This is crazy.

Good god man, imagine if the Celtics were playing this poorly against the WIZARDS right now.. I would go into hiding.

They played somewhat poorly against Atlanta(though Atlanta's athleticism definitely game Boston's shooters problems).

You can't say they're playing bad at home though. If they were playing bad at home, I guess I'd buy the argument that they've saved their worst for last, but they've pretty consistently played amazing at home.

It's just they don't have a leader. I said early in this thread the Celtics weren't built for 7 game series against the Pistons or Cavs(you can apparently add the Hawks to that list as well). My reason back then was they lacked quality talent in the post and their best players were all jump shooters. Allen, Pierce, and Garnett shoot jumpers by and large. That can work in the regular season, but everyone has heard the adage that jump shooting teams usually don't win championships. It's just too hard to get jumpers to fall against the same opponent when they can make defensive adjustments. You need a driver so he can draw fouls and more importantly collapse the defense freeing up jump shooters. The Cavs, by playing off Rondo daring him to shoot, have taken away their best driver. Pierce can do it too, but with the way Lebron is playing defense on him, he hasn't had many opportunites(and Pierce han't given Lebron many opportunities on the other end either).

Boston, while incredibly talented, still has some glaring weaknesses. I said this before the season, during the season, and before the playoffs. Now, I still expect them to win simply because the Cavs haven't shown anything resembling consistency. I would expect to lose against the Pistons, and I'd favor all four Western teams against the Celtics right now(though the Jazz would be close).

They played somewhat poorly against Atlanta(though Atlanta's athleticism definitely game Boston's shooters problems).

You can't say they're playing bad at home though. If they were playing bad at home, I guess I'd buy the argument that they've saved their worst for last, but they've pretty consistently played amazing at home.

Boston at home in regular season > Boston at home in playoffs. Look at the game tonight - They were pretty much shit in the first half. Even in games where they get the win, they tend to let up and keep the team in the game. During the regular season, there was no doubt. They crushed.

You're dead on about all 3 stars being jumpshooters (although, at the time you said it I probably vehemently disagreed with you :) ). Problem is, Pierce shouldn't be (atleast, not primarily), Garnett shouldn't be, but they just.. are. I figured they would smarten up, but nope. Pierce, once upon a time not so long ago, was literally the best in the league at getting to the free throw line. Now he just looks lost, in any arena.

And about their championship chances... I don't know anymore. I ruled it out after game 6 against the Hawks. But then again, I look at that roster... That team has to have a shot, in my eyes. I can't rule a team out at this point. I'd rather watch than predict.

I don't think they beat Detroit if they get past the Cavaliers. Rasheed Wallace will give Garnett a lot more trouble than Varejao can. Rip Hamilton should be able to destroy Ray Allen.

They have a lot of young SFs to throw at Paul Pierce.

I'm calling for a Detroit/New Orleans final right now.

I'm calling for a Detroit/New Orleans final right now.

you are a faggot, just so dumb, neither of those teams will be in the finals.

So you think Boston and their inability to win on the road is going to be able to beat a veteran Pistons team with a ton more experience?

The west is hard to predict, but I have no problem with my New Orleans prediction.

I've only seen this guy make Laker posts. He's already shown that he doesn't have much to add here.
I'm with you on NO/Detroit.. I hope not, but it seems to be unfolding that way. The Pistons getting another ring would bore me to death, but if they're the best team so be it.. I think them beating the Hornets/Lakers is pretty likely.
As I said, with the Celtics, I look at the roster and I can't really count them out. The Celtics just need to do a few things - More Rondo, less Cassell, better road games, better Ray Allen, more slashing Paul Pierce, less jumpshooting KG.. A Doc Rivers brain transplant.. And I don't see how they couldn't beat anyone. All of this happening may be unlikely, but it's not impossible. They were doing most of that for most of the year.

Are you sufficiently entertained yet napoleon? Two great game sixes tonight and two sevens on the way.
Watching the Jazz get knocked out at home is making me very hesitant about Cavs/Celts game seven. If Boston blows it there will not be so many fans sticking around to pat em on the back because of a well played season. Atleast the Celtics played hard and decently smart tonight. The two blown calls at the end didn't bug me all that much. The goaltend was a little bit hard to see (I thought it was on the way down but I didn't even see it hit the board) and the charge call could have really gone either way, but it's not like the Cavaliers didn't earn the win. It takes me about 3 seconds to get over bad/questionable calls.

I've only seen this guy make Laker posts. He's already shown that he doesn't have much to add here.


haha just because i know the lakers are going to the finals i have nothing to add??

the reason is because this is some gay ass website forum and im not even going to really start talking until they do win. see you then. i promise.

Naw not because you're a Lakers fan. I used to love reading Flea's blogs, I wonder if he still does that. More because "you suck ass lakers rule" is boring to read and makes no impact. I don't care what team you're into. Like I said the Lakers/Celts thing is pretty much buried unless they meet in the finals again, then people will start playing it up like there's a whole bunch of bad blood where there really isn't. I would like to encourage some decent discussion (other than napoleon, JADA before the Sixers got whacked, my girlfriend and website posts) but it's your call. I'm not bothered.

ok ok ill give this some time

Pistons - dont seem that great to me, from what ive seen lately they seem slow and i don't think they handle pressure very well

Boston - has and still is my favorite in the east but just look at how many games they are loosing in the playoffs to not so good teams( sorry the cavs fucking blow) and i dont think they can keep up with the Lakers scoring wise

Cleveland - besides lebron there is not one person on that team to be scared of, they simply could never compete with any team out of the west

Spurs - same old team, Lakers put a pretty good whoopin on them right before the post season and i dont feel like they can match up with the Lakers at all. Fastbreak points will be the end of the Spurs if this series happens.

New Orleans - defenetly a talented team and the Lakers biggest challenge. if they can edge out the Spurs, which i think they will, the combination of the Lakers having more rest, more experience, and a deeper bench will send the hornets home.

seriously how can you go against kobe when he has a team like he does this year, it just dosnt even make sense

ok ok ill give this some time

Pistons - dont seem that great to me, from what ive seen lately they seem slow and i don't think they handle pressure very well
Seems to me it's NO pressure situations that give them the most trouble.

Boston - has and still is my favorite in the east but just look at how many games they are loosing in the playoffs to not so good teams( sorry the cavs fucking blow) and i dont think they can keep up with the Lakers scoring wise
yeah. I've said enough about the Celtics.

Cleveland - besides lebron there is not one person on that team to be scared of, they simply could never compete with any team out of the west
Nah the Cavs are a good team. Ilgauskas is certainly scary when he's on and brings many advantages to the Cavs. The whole team is packed full of rebounders that really scrap. And Delonte West is showing that he's got balls of steel, I'm glad he was brought up a Celtic.
Cleveland was basically what I expected them to be, only quite a bit tougher. The more of a stubborn attitude you bring to the playoffs, the better off you'll be, and the Cavaliers have plenty of that. The Celtics just have too much talent. So proud of Paul Pierce today. I've been clamoring for that kind of game from him for the entire duration of the playoffs.

Spurs - same old team, Lakers put a pretty good whoopin on them right before the post season and i dont feel like they can match up with the Lakers at all. Fastbreak points will be the end of the Spurs if this series happens.
I'm always wary to doubt the Spurs, just like the Pistons. They pretty much have a 50/50 chance of winning the championship at ALL times, October, May, July, all day all night they are a smart bet. They're one of the best sports franchises of the 2000's, it's hard to talk negatively about them. They will beat the Lakers if LA let's them bully them around and outsmart them.. I think brains and brawn will play a more important role than speed in the series.

New Orleans - defenetly a talented team and the Lakers biggest challenge. if they can edge out the Spurs, which i think they will, the combination of the Lakers having more rest, more experience, and a deeper bench will send the hornets home.
If the Spurs were at home I would pick SA. But now, since the Hornets are at home I can feel decent about selecting the Hornets to beat them, but not great..


seriously how can you go against kobe when he has a team like he does this year, it just dosnt even make sense

This is sound logic. I've never once said LA couldn't do it.
I think the only issue I have is this - Kobe is probably the best player in the world, but I can't imagine wanting to be his teammate. So I think he's one of those guys, as they say, that brings a lot to the table while also taking something away with his presence. When he's the leader of a team, I feel hesitant to dub it the championship favorite. I wouldn't be surprised if they did it of course, but it doesn't feel like it's going to work out, imo. When the going gets tough, I expect Kobe to do nothing but shoot more dirty looks to his teammates than made baskets.

I said this on a different sports board I post on, but there really isn't a doubt in my mind that the Pistons don't beat the Celtics. The Celtics are an ok team(definitely not great regardless of what their regular season record says).

With that said, they have some sever flaws in their team. Firstly, they lack a good head coach. Doc Rivers brings NOTHING to the table. He's the only coach in the league I think is worse than Mike Brown(Cavs coach). At least Brown can coach defense effectively. The second weakness is no post presence. Garnett should be a post presence, but he's too timid to be aggressive in the post. Kendrick Perkins is worthless offensively posting up, and their other bigs aside from an occassional PJ Brown jumper are nothing to talk about. I knew the Cavs would give them a lot of trouble down low, and I think the Pistons will give them even more trouble. Rasheed Wallace is going to plant himself in Garnett's head this series. Their third weakness is something I mentioned earlier in this thread, and it's that the Celtics are all jump shooters. Paul Pierce showed a little bit of what he can do, but he's the only slasher on the team. Rondo could, but he plays scared a lot. Additionally, Chauncey Billups, if healthy, will eat Rondo alive on both ends of the court IMO. It will also be interesting to see what they do with the now useless Ray Allen. He'll probably still start, but if he plays more than 10 minutes a game, the Celtics are in trouble. There's no way he's able to keep up with Rip Hamilton.

I really thought the Cavs would be a good matchup for the Celtics before the series started, and I was right. I think the Pistons will be an even better matchup since they have a deeper bench and more balanced scoring.

I've been severely disappointed with the Celtics this postseason. Even knowing the Cavs match up well with them, they still should have won at least one game at Cleveland, yet for the most part, they were never really close.

Boston is just lucky as hell they played well during the regular season. There's no doubt if they didn't have homecourt that they would be out of the playoffs right now.

The Celtics are an ok team(definitely not great regardless of what their regular season record says).

If the Celtics are just "ok", then what are the Cavaliers?
Let's say ok is one step above average. Average < Ok < Pretty Good < Good < Very Good < Excellent, but not quite a.... < Contender.
Team A is just ok. Team B, a team that made the finals last year and apparently matches up against Team A very well, meets them in the playoffs. Team A then beats Team B in 7, almost 6 games, even though one of their star players is continuing to put up bricks.
If Team A is just ok then Team B does indeed suck ass. I would have picked Detroit too if this were the case.

Doc Rivers brings NOTHING to the table. He's the only coach in the league I think is worse than Mike Brown(Cavs coach). At least Brown can coach defense effectively.
Mike Brown is really the worst coach in the league? I don't know of anyone that claims to know what the worst coach is - of course you're gonna think it's the guy coaching your home team. Who coaches the Wolves? Who's the interim dude on the Bulls? Mike Brown, the all time winningest (playoffs) Cavs coach ever, is worse than that? Wow, sorry Cleveland.
Agreed on Doc, however. I don't know where he would fall if we had a coaching rank-off or whatever, but the Celtics are definitely winning in spite of him.
edit - My mistake, I misread, you think Doc is the worst and Mike Brown is 2nd worst, correct? eh well I don't really need to alter anything.


The second weakness is no post presence. Garnett should be a post presence, but he's too timid to be aggressive in the post. Kendrick Perkins is worthless offensively posting up, and their other bigs aside from an occassional PJ Brown jumper are nothing to talk about.
I already touched on Garnett a little while ago. You're right that he should be a post presence, but isn't. You must say that he does show flashes. It's not like he never does it. But I don't disagree with you.
Perkins.. Worthless is an exaggeration, at best. Perk was playing worse than usual. Against Cleveland he shot 41% and had over 2 turnovers a game. Against Atlanta he shot 60% and averaged less than 1 turnover, as well as having more blocks, points and rebounds. During the regular season he was 6th in field goal percentage, that's worthless? Are you just taking shots in the dark here or what? Atleast when I talk about other teams I don't know about I try not to touch on subjects I have no idea about.
Their other bigs, I've discussed them in this thread as well. I considered going on Leon Powe watch and posting his numbers on a nightly basis because I continue to be so impressed with them, but got lazy with the idea. He's underperformed in the playoffs, but he's also had his minutes jerked around by Doc quite a bit, inexplicably.
And PJ Brown is not there to hit jumpers. 1-2 a game will suffice, but he's in there for low post defense, and he's delivered on that.
So, say what you want about them, I keep on trying to dig up the numbers and letting you know how these guys can all play, just take from it what you will. I realize that fading out in the playoffs really doesn't help anyone's cause, but the beauty of underachieving is that you neevr know when they're going to kick it into gear.. If ever. All I know - Boston's backup bigs > Cleveland's "full complement of guards".. Those guards really didn't seem to show up, did they? I liked West's play.. That's all that caught my eye.


I knew the Cavs would give them a lot of trouble down low, and I think the Pistons will give them even more trouble. Rasheed Wallace is going to plant himself in Garnett's head this series.
Nothing wrong with these points, I can agree with that. The Cavs have a tough front court but I find the Pistons to be a little more active. And Rasheed.. I'll just say I hope you're wrong. but KG did fine in the regular season against him, if that means anything now (It probably doesn't).


Their third weakness is something I mentioned earlier in this thread, and it's that the Celtics are all jump shooters. Paul Pierce showed a little bit of what he can do, but he's the only slasher on the team. Rondo could, but he plays scared a lot. Additionally, Chauncey Billups, if healthy, will eat Rondo alive on both ends of the court IMO. It will also be interesting to see what they do with the now useless Ray Allen. He'll probably still start, but if he plays more than 10 minutes a game, the Celtics are in trouble. There's no way he's able to keep up with Rip Hamilton.

Ray Allen.. Well, I have no excuse for him. On the other hand, it's not like the guy forgot how to shoot. He's better than that. Imagine how quick these last two series would have been over if he had been hitting shots? Something for you to consider.. Ray has had ups and downs all season, and the team is still able to perform pretty well (though it's been really killin em on the road). Either way, the guy still has to shoot. There's really no other option.
Billups.. Well, as you said, if healthy. It's one thing to say the guy has the advantage, but to say Rondo will get eaten alive is probably going to end up being another massive overstatement. Detroit is not going to be able to shut down his ability to distribute the ball. Well, they could, but in the meantime Rondo would still be playing solid defense, grabbing rebounds and hitting the occasional shot. I don't see what evidence is there to make you think he's going to be so woefully bad, other than he's a Celtic.


I really thought the Cavs would be a good matchup for the Celtics before the series started, and I was right.

Who cares? They lost, right? Did you call that too? It's not like I care that they lost, but it's silly for you to lump so much praise upon the Cavs and yourself, while the Celtics had won the series.. Do you think Lebron is raving on and on to his teammates right now, "atleast we matched up well with them you guys, lol!"


I think the Pistons will be an even better matchup since they have a deeper bench and more balanced scoring.
Well yes, Detroit is a championship team and Cleveland isn't, so I can't disagree.

I've been severely disappointed with the Celtics this postseason. Even knowing the Cavs match up well with them, they still should have won at least one game at Cleveland, yet for the most part, they were never really close.

Boston is just lucky as hell they played well during the regular season. There's no doubt if they didn't have homecourt that they would be out of the playoffs right now.

Oh don't think I'm not disappointed in them either. They have been underachieving like crazy. I probably won't even get into this, as it's all I've been able to talk about the last few weeks. But at this point, the lack of time off becomes worrying. But then again, not more worrying than Doc Rivers or Ray Allen.

A lot of what you're saying sounds a lot like sour grapes, but it's not like I can blame you for that. I would be bitter too if the Cavs stole one today. But either way, I would have raved about the Cavs frontcourt and defensive effort.

If the Celtics are just "ok", then what are the Cavaliers?
Let's say ok is one step above average. Average < Ok < Pretty Good < Good < Very Good < Excellent, but not quite a.... < Contender.
Team A is just ok. Team B, a team that made the finals last year and apparently matches up against Team A very well, meets them in the playoffs. Team A then beats Team B in 7, almost 6 games, even though one of their star players is continuing to put up bricks.
If Team A is just ok then Team B does indeed suck ass. I would have picked Detroit too if this were the case.

I'm just saying Boston isn't a great team, that's all. No need to over analyze. They're a decent team, but won't be remembered as an alltime great team. Even if they win the championship(which I'm positive they won't), they wouldn't compare to recent champions, let alone past champions. They're just an ok team, not great.


Mike Brown is really the worst coach in the league? I don't know of anyone that claims to know what the worst coach is - of course you're gonna think it's the guy coaching your home team. Who coaches the Wolves? Who's the interim dude on the Bulls? Mike Brown, the all time winningest (playoffs) Cavs coach ever, is worse than that? Wow, sorry Cleveland.
Agreed on Doc, however. I don't know where he would fall if we had a coaching rank-off or whatever, but the Celtics are definitely winning in spite of him.
edit - My mistake, I misread, you think Doc is the worst and Mike Brown is 2nd worst, correct? eh well I don't really need to alter anything.

The Cavs scored points in spite of Mike Brown. He has the worst offensive sets in the league and calls the worst plays in the league. He uses Lebron horribly on offense. His only saving grace is he got the Cavs to play elite defense. He's the second worst coach of a playoff team after Doc Rivers, but he makes it extremely close between the two.

I already touched on Garnett a little while ago. You're right that he should be a post presence, but isn't. You must say that he does show flashes. It's not like he never does it. But I don't disagree with you.
Perkins.. Worthless is an exaggeration, at best. Perk was playing worse than usual. Against Cleveland he shot 41% and had over 2 turnovers a game. Against Atlanta he shot 60% and averaged less than 1 turnover, as well as having more blocks, points and rebounds. During the regular season he was 6th in field goal percentage, that's worthless? Are you just taking shots in the dark here or what? Atleast when I talk about other teams I don't know about I try not to touch on subjects I have no idea about.
Their other bigs, I've discussed them in this thread as well. I considered going on Leon Powe watch and posting his numbers on a nightly basis because I continue to be so impressed with them, but got lazy with the idea. He's underperformed in the playoffs, but he's also had his minutes jerked around by Doc quite a bit, inexplicably.
And PJ Brown is not there to hit jumpers. 1-2 a game will suffice, but he's in there for low post defense, and he's delivered on that.
So, say what you want about them, I keep on trying to dig up the numbers and letting you know how these guys can all play, just take from it what you will. I realize that fading out in the playoffs really doesn't help anyone's cause, but the beauty of underachieving is that you neevr know when they're going to kick it into gear.. If ever. All I know - Boston's backup bigs > Cleveland's "full complement of guards".. Those guards really didn't seem to show up, did they? I liked West's play.. That's all that caught my eye.

That's the problem. You're trying to use numbers to justify them being ok, but regular season numbers are worthless right now.

Kevin Garnett posts up occasionally, but he's definitely not a post presence. Kendrick Perkins is worthless offensively. He can't create his own shot. The majority of his own points came of double teams of other players. I'll bet Detroit doesn't double team as much as Cleveland did, and that will make Perkins even less productive against Detroit. I mean, if Ilgauskas can guard him, imagine how Mcdyess will do against him. The thing with Perkins is he can't get the ball in the post and back someone down and score with a turnaround or hook shot. Most of his points came on layups from passes out of the double team. There's nothing wrong with that, just don't act like him shooting 53% in the playoffs is a result of offensive skill, because it's not.

Leon Powe and Big Baby Davis were afterthoughts in this series. Neither of them had a noteworthy game as far as I can remember.

I'm not talking about Boston's post players defensively, but offensively, they're mostly worthless below the foul line.

There's no arguing that the Cleveland bigs were significantly better than the Boston bigs in my mind. This will only be highlighted even more in the Detroit series, because Detroit's bigs are more athletic than Clevelands.


Nothing wrong with these points, I can agree with that. The Cavs have a tough front court but I find the Pistons to be a little more active. And Rasheed.. I'll just say I hope you're wrong. but KG did fine in the regular season against him, if that means anything now (It probably doesn't).

Definitely doesn't. Rasheed shows up to play in the playoffs, while the jury is still out on KG. So far though, I'm giving Rasheed a decided advantage in that matchup. KG can yell and scream all he wants, but I still don't see him dominating like he should. The Cavs had one person who could guard KG, yet he still settled for jumpers regardless of who was guarding him. He's just too timid, and Rasheed will figure that out and take it to KG every time. Rasheed is also the one person you don't want to trash talk, and KG is a notorious trash talker(and all-time douche for it too).

Ray Allen.. Well, I have no excuse for him. On the other hand, it's not like the guy forgot how to shoot. He's better than that. Imagine how quick these last two series would have been over if he had been hitting shots?

And Imagine how quick it would have been over if Lebron had been hitting his shots? If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. The FACT is Ray Allen has been worthless. This has been exacerbated by the fact that on offense is the only area he contributes. At least Pierce and Garnett, if they're playing poorly offensively, can still play good defense. Allen had issues guarding Szczerbiak. Consider that. S

Ray has had ups and downs all season, and the team is still able to perform pretty well (though it's been really killin em on the road). Either way, the guy still has to shoot. There's really no other option.

There is another option and that's sitting Ray Allen. Maybe Doc should give him one shot to show he's actually capable of making a basket, but after that he should sit aside from maybe 20 minutes a game. He's a defensive liability, so if he's not scoring, why play him?

Billups.. Well, as you said, if healthy. It's one thing to say the guy has the advantage, but to say Rondo will get eaten alive is probably going to end up being another massive overstatement. Detroit is not going to be able to shut down his ability to distribute the ball. Well, they could, but in the meantime Rondo would still be playing solid defense, grabbing rebounds and hitting the occasional shot. I don't see what evidence is there to make you think he's going to be so woefully bad, other than he's a Celtic.

I never said he'll perform woefully bad. No need to put words in my mouth.

I said he'll get eaten alive, as in Billups will have his way with him. Billups is the craftiest point guard in the league, and he'll show it against Rondo. Not only that, but he's probably the strongest point guard in the league. I think it'll show against Rondo.

Who cares? They lost, right? Did you call that too? It's not like I care that they lost, but it's silly for you to lump so much praise upon the Cavs and yourself, while the Celtics had won the series.. Do you think Lebron is raving on and on to his teammates right now, "atleast we matched up well with them you guys, lol!"

Lol. Where did I once praise the Cavs? This was my analysis of how Boston would do against Detroit based on how they did against Cleveland.

You questioned me earlier though when I said Cleveland would give Boston trouble, did you not?

I don't know why you're associating what I say with the Cavs. Should I guess that Ray Allen is thinking, "Don't worry guys, we did good during the regular season. None of these playoff numbers matter even though no one on this team is known for winning"?

Well yes, Detroit is a championship team and Cleveland isn't, so I can't disagree.

Boston isn't either...

A lot of what you're saying sounds a lot like sour grapes, but it's not like I can blame you for that. I would be bitter too if the Cavs stole one today. But either way, I would have raved about the Cavs frontcourt and defensive effort.

What have I said that's inaccurate? Boston IS a jump shooting team. Boston DOES lack a post presence on offense. Doc Rivers IS a horrible coach. Ray Allen IS worthless if he's not hitting shots. Maybe it sounds like sour grapes because you don't want to hear the truth.

And Imagine how quick it would have been over if Lebron had been hitting his shots? If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

lmao at that one. Good point too. The only thing I can say about Lebron - Why does he jack up so damn many threes? The guy is clearly not a three point shooter. I can understand the need to "man up" and be a star down the stretch, but he has Wally, Pavlovic, West, even Jones, a whole slew of bombers, and he's tossing up threes all by himself.. Why? Atleast Ray was taking shots he should have taken (with exceptions of course). Lebron only hit one out of 4 threes in the playoffs. After a while, why even bother? Why even tiptoe on that border of selfishness? There's no excuse, other than "I'm the star, follow me," and look what happened.

About the Cavs having nothing to do with what you're talking about:
Well, maybe so, but it seemed like you were especially hard on the C's because they just got through beating your team. Your team that you've been sticking up for, that you said would beat the Celtics, the team I've been doubting and putting up regular season stats (ones that basically held up through the playoffs).. Then you come at the thread with this attitude like "meh, the Celtics are just ok". Just seems funny to me, not the haha kind.
Let's be clear, again, I don't expect Boston to beat Detroit. but you've trashed almost every starter and brushed aside most of the bench.. Man I just have a tough time believing this team is that bad. You make them sound as if they're not even a 2nd tier team in the league. THAT is why it sounds like sour grapes, to me. To this point I have not come across ONE person who is as low on the Celtics as you are.
"Lol. Where did I once praise the Cavs?"
Well, when you brought up the fact that you were right about the Cavs matching up well, it seemed to be a simultaneous pat on the back and praise to the Cavs for performing well.
On this subject..

About putting words in your mouth:
I would say if any player is getting his "lunch eaten" he must be playing pretty "woefully". Sorry about the confusion.

About regular season numbers being worthless:
Not entirely worthless. Usually the disparity of playoff numbers vs. regular season numbers is not earth shattering. In a guy like Powe's case, the drop in numbers is due to Doc jerking his minutes around, like I said earlier.

What you said about Perkins is very true. I was considering editing in something regarding that in my last post, but I didn't want to make it any longer than it had to be. Still, when the ball is in his hands in the paint, he usually puts it in the right spot. I think he'll be fine. I've seen him post up, he is capable. Ilgauskas had the height advantage, McDyess doesn't. But either way, I feel like this will be a minor factor in the series, I'm just not concerned with Kendrick Perkins on offense.

ok I'll cave and use quotes one last time


What have I said that's inaccurate? Boston IS a jump shooting team. Boston DOES lack a post presence on offense. Doc Rivers IS a horrible coach. Ray Allen IS worthless if he's not hitting shots. Maybe it sounds like sour grapes because you don't want to hear the truth.
Jump shooting team - This may be true, but I don't think it's as much of a panic thing as you're making it out to be. They do a good amount of getting to the hoop as well. Feel free to disagree, but that's what I have seen from them.
Lacking post presence - If by post presence you mean "one guy that will scare the crap out of the Pistons and command a double team" no, they don't have that. But they do have atleast four guys that can do it when it's needed.
Doc - Yes, he sucks.
Ray Allen - Yes, he has sucked. My faith is still in him though, or atleast, enough so that I don't think he'll shoot them out of contention.

Sour grapes - I said it before, and there's no use in repeating myself, but to this point I've never heard someone as low on Boston as you, and it just happens to be a Cavs fan on the day that they got eliminated by the Celtics. Hm. Clearly, if I didn't want to hear the truth, I would be picking the Celtics to win the ring. I'm not.

My question again is how is it sour grapes if everything I've said is true?

I haven't defended or made excuses for the Cavs in any of these posts recently. It's been purely my analysis of how Boston will do against Detroit, nothing more. The Cavs have many more weaknesses than Boston and we have a lot of areas to work on, but that doesn't make what I say about Boston any less true.

I also haven't trashed every starter. Rondo will do good, Billups will just be a lot better. Garnett versus Wallace will be a battle, but I see Wallace winning simply because he's so tough and competitive. Rip Hamilton will have a decided advantage against whoever is guarding him, most likely Ray Allen. Paul Pierce will be going against one of the toughest perimeter defenders in the league in Tayshaun Prince.

What in that analysis is wrong? Garnett could be a lot better than Wallace, but I'm hitching my train to Sheed.

Sour Grapes would be me bashing the Celtics for unfair reasons, which I'm not. Everything I've said can be firlmy rooted in stats or by watching the games. Only a few pieces of my analysis are straight opinion(Wallace vs. Garnett and Rondo vs. Billups really), but that opinion is based off watching a ton of games of both teams.

It just seems as though you've been a little too harsh on them, that's all, whether it's because they beat Cleveland or if it's just to get a rise out of me. But you're allowed. I don't want to be the guy who gets all up in arms and comes off like a total homer either.. It's not like nobody is ever guilty of it. It's cool though, you bring good points to back up every single word.

Even your opinion of Rondo vs. Billups, I will grudgingly admit you're probably right. If we're going by the regular season numbers, which is another thing you could grudgingly do. Rondo's stats vs. Detroit = Worse than usual. Billups stats vs. Boston = Better than usual. If I can remember correctly, I recall there being one game in particular where Chauncey was burning Rondo pretty badly, but I believe it was their first meeting and the Celtics (Glen Davis!) really took care of them after that.
But man I'm still really really high on Rondo just like I was after the end of last season. I think he's going to be phenomenal. Billups has the experience edge, but Rondo has been getting more and more honed by the day. And I don't know how physically tired he is right now, being so young and fit, and he hasn't exactly been overworked lately.
So the Billups vs. Rondo thing... I'm secretly optimistic. I know it's irrational.

Fatigue is going to kill most of the other Celtics though. This is the real reason I don't think they can pull this off. I think they've had to play 14 games in something like 29 games. This is really shocking. I will be impressed if they can win, or even take it to seven games. Six is reasonable.

Wallace/Garnett... I would put that in the "who knows" file. What is everyone worried about Wallace doing, defending KG well? Or abusing him on offense? I'm not worried about a single player in the NBA guarding Garnett (except for Bowen). You know why he's such a jumpshooter? It's indefensible. The only thing you can do is keep the ball away from him, which may require a double, which is why everyone was so scared of Boston before the season even started.

gotta cut it short, company

Wallace is one of the few people long enough to defend Garnett's jumper and athletic enough to stay with him one on one. It just depends on how well Wallace is feeling. If he's focused, there aren't many power forwards in the league, including Garnett, that are better.

Wallace is also a legit three point shooter, so that will draw Garnett away from the paint on offense. The same couldn't be said about Ben Wallace or Varejao in the last series.

Well now you've officially pumped me up about this matchup even more. This could be one of the best power forward matchups we've seen in a long time. This series will be a monster.

Bulls get #1 pick!!

Resurrecting the old thread because I fucking can.

woooooo

Check out all that Celtics doubt in pages 1-12 (though, I have to admit, I contributed some... But now I'm able to say that they're BETTER than I thought)


1. ESPN analysts and experts predictions looking like dogshit
2. Pierce
3. Powe

Yes. x1,000,000

Also, that dumb twat (and Pistons fan) Jemele Hill got suspended from ESPN for comparing rooting for the Celtics to rooting for Hitler. I'm not fucking kidding
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view/2008_06_18_ESPN_suspends_columnist_Hill/srvc=home&position=1

Same person who wrote this garbage

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hill/080523&sportCat=nba
If you're someone who grumbles that NBA players don't play defense, you should root for Pistons-Spurs (although Boston may play the best defense of the remaining playoff teams). If you complain you're sick of seeing NBA teams that don't play hard, root for Pistons-Spurs. If you love teams that win because of their commitment to team basketball, root for Pistons-Spurs. If you're sick of seeing basketball dominated by And-1 wannabes, root for Pistons-Spurs.

Yep. The Celtics don't play hard. They also are the only team in NBA history to play defense AND NOT play defense. You read it here folks.

People are god damn motherfucking RIDICULOUS with their Celtics/Boston bias sometimes. In a way, I can't blame them, the Boston sports crowd is spoiled and they sometimes do act like douches.
But fuck the Red Sox
Fuck the Patriots.
I'm a fan of one team and one team only, have been since around the time Pierce was just a rookie, and they're the champions now. And that kid is Finals MVP. Fairweather my dick.
I might as well stop watching, it's not going to get better.

Fairweather my dick.

Amen.