I believe in it. I'm a member. I once told a christian this and she responded "That's Bullshit. Just because some author wrote about it doesn't mean it exists."

As many of you know, HP Lovecraft wrote about Cthulhu.

I then laughed at her and walked away.

So my point is, dear atheistic totseans, used this tactic against theists? It works.

Nice.

thats funny

Thanks for the pro tip.

You guys have tactics?

You guys have tactics?

You sound surprised by that.

You sound surprised by that.

Yeah, this shit's more serious than I thought. Someone get me the secretary of thiest defense on the phone!!!

*rings*

"Sir, I've got totse user: "Beany" on the phone here. He's surprised that there are actual tactics being used against your organization. Could you give him a quick sound bite to demonstrate that you're not at all concerned with this recent outlash?"

Okay fine... but I've got my eye on you vazilizaitsev89

Okay fine... but I've got my eye on you vazilizaitsev89

*looks over shoulder*

I've only done it in defense!

Cult of cthulhu. Yeah. You do realize its a fucking book?

Cult of cthulhu. Yeah. You do realize its a fucking book?

I'm pretty sure you mean Call of Cthulhu.

Cult of cthulhu. Yeah. You do realize its a fucking book?

EXACTLY! Just like the BIBLE is just a book. Its the point of calling Bullshit on the Christians and Muslims.

I know perfectly well its a book and Im an avid fan of Lovecraft

EXACTLY! Just like the BIBLE is just a book. Its the point of calling Bullshit on the Christians and Muslims.

I know perfectly well its a book and Im an avid fan of Lovecraft

Yeah. A millenia old tome taken and molded from hundreds of differing cultures from hundreds of sociocultural vernaculars within a belief system written and revised by wise men and prophets to try and benefit and at times opportunistically sway mankind.

And...then theres the necronomicon. A book. Good fiction, but just a book nonetheless.

No fuckin comparison. And the fact that its a large and ornate fictional belief system within a book does not invalidate any other belief system due to its mere existence.

Glasscuts I was referring to the fact that the fellow said he was a member of the "cult" of cthulhu. Never read call of Cthulhu though it sounds good.

^ I think you're missing the point. Believing what the Bible says must be true because it says so or because some author wrote about, is fallacious.

He's explaining that through the Call of Cthulhu. That point (i.e. the fallacy) stands regardless of how shitty the Call of Cthulhu was, or how good pedigree of the Bible might be.

^ I think you're missing the point. Believing what the Bible says must be true because it says so or because some author wrote about, is fallacious.

He's explaining that through the Call of Cthulhu. That point (i.e. the fallacy) stands regardless of how shitty the Call of Cthulhu was, or how good pedigree of the Bible might be.

thank you rust.

The story is called "Call of Cthulhu" but its followers are "cultists"

I've read the story and some of the mythos.

My argument ultimately comes down to the fact that

a. Bible is written by men several thousand years ago and they claim to have a god and all that

b. I say the SAME thing about Cthulhu and HP Lovecraft, only this time it has been less than 100 years

C. And for a christian to say that my beliefs are wrong because they dont make sense, a man wrote the book, etc etc is ludicrous because its exactly what happened with them and their bible

get it?

Edit: TruthWielder, you said that the Necronomicon is just a book, a good fiction book. Substitute the bible there. Or are you saying that just because the bible is older it carries more merit? Or that it is some how, NOT a work of fiction, but a work of fact?

Explain yourself

thank you rust.

The story is called "Call of Cthulhu" but its followers are "cultists"

I've read the story and some of the mythos.

My argument ultimately comes down to the fact that

a. Bible is written by men several thousand years ago and they claim to have a god and all that

b. I say the SAME thing about Cthulhu and HP Lovecraft, only this time it has been less than 100 years

C. And for a christian to say that my beliefs are wrong because they dont make sense, a man wrote the book, etc etc is ludicrous because its exactly what happened with them and their bible

get it?

Edit: TruthWielder, you said that the Necronomicon is just a book, a good fiction book. Substitute the bible there. Or are you saying that just because the bible is older it carries more merit? Or that it is some how, NOT a work of fiction, but a work of fact?

Explain yourself

Of course, you and Rust are absolutely right in saying that "because it is written does not make it so". I couldnt agree more. From the bible to the necronomicon.

However, the amount of culture, history, influence, and genius of the bible is unparalled by most anything else in written word. Not because of "inherent merit". This is not a religious discussion and I do not assert that a bible, as papers and pages is "holy" or possesses esoteric qualities. To point C, no. It is not "exactly what happened with 'them' and their bible".

HP lovecraft was one gifted and imaginative horror fiction writer. The bible is written by dozens of people; the wise, benevolent, malicious, and powerful who have had major effects on the world we live in today in both the cultural and historical sense. The necronomicon has sold millions of copies. The Bible has sold billions and uncounted more. The bible contains poetry, scripture, prose, plays, and encompasses virtually all aspects of literature. It contains passages encompassing the zenith of moral rectitude. It contains passages observing the lowest of human degradation.

My point was simply that, judged through literature, the necronomicon is incomparable to the bible. If you had said something like the Talmud, the Bhagavad Gita, The Rig Veda, Plato's Dialogues, Kabbalah studies or the Mahayana Sutras then I might have seen that you at least can compare two equally amazing pieces of writing. But the necronomicon? Please.


The bible does not carry "merit" in itself and nothing carries "merit" simply out of age. Whether its fully factual is an inane question in light of the fact that it is a religious text and is therefore meant to be interpreted. It is meant to be interpreted through the parts of it that do not require interpretation. Personally, I do not believe that the earth was made in 7 days of our calendar that didnt exist thousands of years ago or any other such silly interpretations that reasonable people can sometimes make in objection against church wakkos. If you feel something is wrong you should have a right to object. The bible is a religious text that has been incredibly influential to our culture and history and is proabably the greatest book ever written/compiled. Beyond that is up to faith my friend.

I understand where your coming from.

My purpose for this discussion was not to bring about the actual writing composition and all that about the bible. I agree, if we compared it that way, the necronomicon cant stand a chance.

But I was arguing that if you look and compare the two as a book of faith, they are equally comparable and both have the same merit.

Not only that, but I wanted to tell everyone about how I get religious types off of my back using Cthulhu

HP Lovecraft is fucking awesome. I read tons of his stuff as a kids, mountains of madness, call of ctulu, damn ive forgotten lots of the titles, but the color out of time and space? That color that fell from the stars that noone had ever seen, I always think of that when I take LSD.

Reading Call of Cthulhu as a child made me scared of large bodies of water for years. Hell, sometimes I still get a little weirded out. The Christian god never made me feel anything. Was always a one sided conversation growing up. If I were to base my beliefs off either of these fiction books, I'd go with Lovecraft. He's a more interesting author. lulz

Right, I did post something, but then my internet crashed, and it's gone.

So here it is in short:

A.) Lol, Lovecrafat's cool.
B.) Lol, Colour out of space (Whatever it;s called) is cool.
C.) Lol, God.

Right, I did post something, but then my internet crashed, and it's gone.

So here it is in short:

A.) Lol, Lovecrafat's cool.
B.) Lol, Colour out of space (Whatever it;s called) is cool.
C.) Lol, God.

Colour out of Space was a great story.

I understand where your coming from.

My purpose for this discussion was not to bring about the actual writing composition and all that about the bible. I agree, if we compared it that way, the necronomicon cant stand a chance.

But I was arguing that if you look and compare the two as a book of faith, they are equally comparable and both have the same merit.

Not only that, but I wanted to tell everyone about how I get religious types off of my back using Cthulhu

yeah...sorry if I seemed uppity.

They would both be based on faith, yes. However, I would disagree (lol...) as to why one could be considered part of spiritual doctrine and why the other wouldnt.

Youre impressively mature. Good going with those religious types. :)

Yeah. A millenia old tome taken and molded from hundreds of differing cultures from hundreds of sociocultural vernaculars within a belief system written and revised by wise men and prophets to try and benefit and at times opportunistically sway mankind.

And...then theres the necronomicon. A book. Good fiction, but just a book nonetheless.

No fuckin comparison. And the fact that its a large and ornate fictional belief system within a book does not invalidate any other belief system due to its mere existence.

Glasscuts I was referring to the fact that the fellow said he was a member of the "cult" of cthulhu. Never read call of Cthulhu though it sounds good.

I would argue that the Necronomicon is a better book b/c it has been translated properly (or at least better than the 400 or so different versions of the bible out there).

Much of the history in the bible is disputed and some of it plain wrong. I am sure you will find less contradictions in the Necronomicon and H.P. Lovecrafts works have been the cause of much less death and suffering.

Actually, the Necronomicon, as written by the mad Arab, doesn't even exist. It was an invention of Lovecraft, as was The King in Yellow.

And citing a book of fiction to refute the Bible is--well, lame. Granted, the Bible is filled with myth and metaphor. I don't see how any intelligent and reasonable person can take much of it literally.

However, there are many germs of truth in it, as there are in all the dozens of other Holy Books--Course in Miracles, the CWG series, the Urantia Book, the Popol Vuh, the Vedantas and so on.

I would argue that the Necronomicon is a better book b/c it has been translated properly (or at least better than the 400 or so different versions of the bible out there).

Much of the history in the bible is disputed and some of it plain wrong. I am sure you will find less contradictions in the Necronomicon and H.P. Lovecrafts works have been the cause of much less death and suffering.

Arguing that the necronomicon is a better book is like arguing that the sun in the sky is less bright than the flashlight that you keep pointed at your face. Yeah, its fact is skewed. Its a religious text. The common fallacy of the armchair atheist is to take the evil actions of men and blame them on a belief system. Death and suffering is caused by human imperfection and selfishness, not a book or, I would more radically assert with awareness of the human predilection for good, a belief.

Actually, the Necronomicon, as written by the mad Arab, doesn't even exist. It was an invention of Lovecraft, as was The King in Yellow.


I wasn't saying the necronomicon as written by the mad Arab, i was talking about the Cthulhu mythos in general.

as Ive said before I am an avid fan of Lovecraft. I KNOW that the Necronomicon doesnt exist, nor does the Mad Arab.

and thanks truthweilder for the compliment.

Arguing that the necronomicon is a better book is like arguing that the sun in the sky is less bright than the flashlight that you keep pointed at your face. Yeah, its fact is skewed. Its a religious text. The common fallacy of the armchair atheist is to take the evil actions of men and blame them on a belief system. Death and suffering is caused by human imperfection and selfishness, not a book or, I would more radically assert with awareness of the human predilection for good, a belief.

I am sorry. I did not mean to say CAUSE pain and suffering. I do realize that nothing can MAKE a person do something. How about justify? Is that better?

The Necronomicon (I know it is a fictional book, but there ARE books called the necronomicon inspired by the PROPHET lovecraft) has not justified as much death and suffering as the bible has. The necronomicon, inspired by the prophet lovecraft, also possesses less contradictions and mistranslation problems.

A better book I think.

I am sorry. I did not mean to say CAUSE pain and suffering. I do realize that nothing can MAKE a person do something. How about justify? Is that better?

The Necronomicon (I know it is a fictional book, but there ARE books called the necronomicon inspired by the PROPHET lovecraft) has not justified as much death and suffering as the bible has. The necronomicon, inspired by the prophet lovecraft, also possesses less contradictions and mistranslation problems.

A better book I think.

So youre pissy because people have used something as justification for atrocious acts? Ok, then why demonize the victimized parchment?

Contradictions...mistranslations....are you fucking kidding me?
As an entirely fictional book, and with all copies actually sold under the necronomicon name doing hardly more than describe fictional God monsters...come on man.

So youre pissy because people have used something as justification for atrocious acts? Ok, then why demonize the victimized parchment?

Contradictions...mistranslations....are you fucking kidding me?
As an entirely fictional book, and with all copies actually sold under the necronomicon name doing hardly more than describe fictional God monsters...come on man.

What do we consider fictional god monsters or fictional monsters? Dragons? Giants? Demons? Zombies? Witches? Wizards?

What do we consider fiction here? Magic? Entities that live in space (heavens)? Demonic possession? Spells?

All are in both books. What makes your fictional book better than mine? B/C it is older? B/C more people believe it? Does it make your fiction any more or less true than mine? Do you have any proof of this if so?

I have offered a reason why mine is better.......it contains less contradictions and mistranslations. Why is yours better?

I will not argue that mine is bette b/c less people use it to justify murder except only to point out that IMO the bible easily lends itself to justify murder.

What do we consider fictional god monsters or fictional monsters? Dragons? Giants? Demons? Zombies? Witches? Wizards?

What do we consider fiction here? Magic? Entities that live in space (heavens)? Demonic possession? Spells?

All are in both books. What makes your fictional book better than mine? B/C it is older? B/C more people believe it? Does it make your fiction any more or less true than mine? Do you have any proof of this if so?

I have offered a reason why mine is better.......it contains less contradictions and mistranslations. Why is yours better?

I will not argue that mine is bette b/c less people use it to justify murder except only to point out that IMO the bible easily lends itself to justify murder.

ugh...now your just making me sick.

First off stop with your ridiculous argument that "it contains less contradictions and mistranslations". IT IS ENTIRELY FICTIONAL. A silly story. A whim of the imagination. The whole goddamn thing has no bearing in reality whatsoever other than as the inspiration for other horror writers and the enjoyment of its readers. You cannot rationally say anything more about the necronomicon.

You want to know what makes the bible better than the necronomicon? If by Necronomicon you mean a collection of beliefs centered around the fictional cthulhu mythos. Other than the list of reasons how the bible is superior to the necronomicon (I seriously can't believe I'm arguing about this) here is some more food for thought.

The Bible, unlike any work of fiction detailing a cult and how many boobs its god/goddess/thing has the bible has spelt out and formulated universal ethical principles that have not only been a fundamental part of ethical deliberation in western culture but has become a practiced and functional ideal.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".

Of course, this statement is at the heart of every single major religion but I would say that through christianity it has had the most influence. This is in turn was the basis for the ethical formulations of Immanuel Kant, probably the greatest ethical philosopher, and his categorical imperative which presented the golden rule in a slightly more elaborate and clarified format.

"Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law."

By the strength of these words all of moral philosophy has been shaken.

The influence of the bible over the course of human history has been UNPARALLED by any other work of art or literature. True enough, it has been held by the hands of the guilty as if to claim innocence, but that does not negate the fact that it has been instrumental in the world of thought, reason, compassion and the sciences. Who's to say that if evil men make evil use of tradition and the gullibility of the masses that their inanimate tools are guilty? Are you one of those anti right to bear arms assholes? Power, in all forms, will be abused. How does this make the bible wrong? You didnt answer my question regarding this. It doesnt my friend. Did I mention the necronomicons mention of blood orgy incest rituals? Oh, lets blame all the blood orgy incest lovers actions on the necronomicon. Ok, two turd arguments down.



So what do we consider fiction? Well...lets look at the dictionary shall we?

fic·tion /ˈfɪkʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fik-shuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. the class of literature comprising works of imaginative narration, esp. in prose form.
2. works of this class, as novels or short stories: detective fiction.
3. something feigned, invented, or imagined; a made-up story: We've all heard the fiction of her being in delicate health.
4. the act of feigning, inventing, or imagining.
5. an imaginary thing or event, postulated for the purposes of argument or explanation.
6. Law. an allegation that a fact exists that is known not to exist, made by authority of law to bring a case within the operation of a rule of law.

Allright, well I would definitely agree with you that much of the bible is historically inaccurate. (we did establish that the necronomicon is 100% fiction, yes?) However, the entire point of the bible is not to serve as a textbook. Its purpose, singularly, is to serve as a spiritual guidebook. Any reasonable man who has read Genesis will not be afraid of talking to snakes and eating from trees, but what is important and what has made the bible the greatest of all books are the ethical undercurrents beneath every word. This, and all the literary reasons that I've already stated, make the bible a more influential, more intellectual, more spiritual, and more blatantly genius book than most any other in existence. Including fiction about Cthulhu and his buds.

This discussion is very interesting. But I must say that I did not mean to spark a debate on the virtues of the bible and of the necronomicon.

I really just wanted to tell you guys of a way in which I got some christian fundamentalists who were trying to convert me off of my back.

I get what the OP was saying, but in all seriousness...the mad arab was a character made up by lovecraft? =[
& all this time I actually believed that the necronomicon was....real.
This is worse then when I found out santa wasn't real.

yes...the mad arab is not real

Well, the bible isn't real either. And its a work of fiction.

Ironically, its written by mad arabs.

That's amazing on the Cthulu, I'd use it but nobody would know what I was talking about, especially not theists.

I get what the OP was saying, but in all seriousness...the mad arab was a character made up by lovecraft? =[
& all this time I actually believed that the necronomicon was....real.
This is worse then when I found out santa wasn't real.
Well, it is. Kinda. There are many non-Lovecraftian (http://www.palmyria.co.uk/superstition/necronomicon/necronomicon.htm) versions floating around, though none can be demonstrated to have existed before him. :)

^ I think you're missing the point. Believing what the Bible says must be true because it says so or because some author wrote about, is fallacious.

He's explaining that through the Call of Cthulhu. That point (i.e. the fallacy) stands regardless of how shitty the Call of Cthulhu was, or how good pedigree of the Bible might be.

And just for the record, Call of Cthulhu was one of the best works of fiction I've ever read. OP, you should look out for the Church of Starry Wisdom, see if they're operating in your area. The Shining Trapezahedron is a marvel to behold, and I hear they're thinking of bringing in an Avatar of Nyarlathotep next week.

And TruthWeilder, there is no Necronomicon. It's a fictional book in the works of HP Lovecraft. Call of Cthulhu is a real short story, as is, say, the Dunwich Horror or The Haunter of the Dark. I think some Satanist wrote a 'Necronomicon', but I don't think they got the point, and it's probably shitty. And guess what? The Bible is largely fictional too. I like to call it 'Historical Fiction', because that's what it is- fiction, with a few references to real historical things here and there. And btw, Lovecraft is a better author than the various authors of the Bible.

Anyways, OP, I think there might be some good statues of Cthulhu floating around New Orleans, if you're interested in expanding your worship. I hear there's a cult around there that actually gets 'visitors', so to speak.

thanks for the info socratic.

Im gonna have to make a trip to N.O

Well, the bible isn't real either. And its a work of fiction.

Ironically, its written by mad arabs.

That's amazing on the Cthulu, I'd use it but nobody would know what I was talking about, especially not theists.

The Necronomicon and the Bible are both literally false, yet, the Bible was not written to be a textbook, work of fiction, or a literal guide to life... but it was merely written as a grand index of symbols that combine together to form practical values that can help people's lives. I rational person SHOULD be afraid to talk to the "snake"... but the snake is no animal but a lowly, slick person that is a bad influence. The "apple" is really a symbol for opportunity and wealth... as in don't break the rules to get wealthy or be patient and good things can come if you are true to yourself...

[/ramble]

The bible is fiction. It is a collection of jewish folklore mixed with old pagan astrological beliefs.

Other versions are tainted in various ways. There are over 400 DIFFERENT versions of the bible.

The argument that bible is superior b/c it is a text designed to teach or enlighten the spirit is bullshit.

there are about 500 verses in the bible dedicated to faith and bout 500 dedicated to prayer....there are over 2000 dealing with wealth and property.

Here is a helpful thing the bible teaches our spirits:

How to punish your slaves:


"When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be punished; for the slave is his money."

—Exodus 21:20-21

Of an unbetrothed virgin:

If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days. -- Deuteronomy 22:28-29

Of prisoners of war:

And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and *kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. -- Numbers 31:15-18

People have believed in the fictional work that is the bible for a long time now. They did this shit. This is god's law and they did it, OR the bible is inaccurate.....either way it does not bode well for the bible.

If people did it, I would argue that more women have been raped and the bible has justified it than have been raped and justified with the necronomicon. The Necronomicon, Peter Pan, The Lorax, etc. are ALL superior pieces of fiction than the bible for this reason.

Show me another book fiction or non-fiction that has been the justification for more rape and murder than the bible...

*moses was not pro-life.