Sadly, I haven't used too much but it would be nice hear your past experiences with it.

I liked APPN better than APAN because it doesn't suck up water and become useless.

I prefer 'APUN' (urea nitrate and AP), for not being hygroscopic too.

Experiences? A few months after I first started experimenting with HE's, I almost blew my legs off with 130 grams of APAN... on film and in front of friends. The top of the charge was exposed (it was buried in sandy soil), and the 20%-AP APAN only covered loosely by a bit of dirt poured on top... other than that, no lid, which was an embarrassingly stupid mistake. A spark from the sparkler fuse found its way in, and it ignited then detonated like a primary 2 metres behind me despite having only 20% AP. Couldn't hear properly for hours. Well... at least I learned not to do that again, and that large primary-based main-charges are retarded.

Video (http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/aspj00/?action=view&current=130gapan_run.flv) (Note the legs to the left of the first and second frame).

I liked APPN better than APAN because it doesn't suck up water and become useless.

It's still pretty damn hygroscopic. I was doing a demonstration for a chem class(IM forces related), and to my dismay, my APPN was too wet and just kind of disappeared and left a scattered pile of KNO3. :( I had to dessicate it and comeback to the school the next day to make up for it(they wouldn't pay me >:(.

I'd had a handful of experiments with both, and I'd greatly prefer APPN, with the AN I had more trouble with - mostly due to it absorbing moisture, and yeah. if I were you I'd just make some ANWAX or something, and just use an AP cap in it, it'll give you better results anyway.

APAN is alright for a begining explosive. Simple easy to make, and decent power. Ive done alot of charges with it as a matter of fact, mostly just to satisfy my desire to set off a charge. Ive done anywhere from twenty grams up to like seven hundred or so.

Whats better than APAN to me, is MEKPAN. I like how it mixes better, and you can make more an its more stable. As for AN absorbing water. Yea that happens but I tend to make my mix (when AN has been dried in oven) the same day I plan on detonating it.

Whats better than APAN to me, is MEKPAN. I like how it mixes better, and you can make more an its more stable. As for AN absorbing water. Yea that happens but I tend to make my mix (when AN has been dried in oven) the same day I plan on detonating it.

MEKPAN is always awkward for me.. Then again, I don't like MEKP all that much to begin with.

And what is this ANAP? ANAP... Never heard of it. Must be something like TATP. I've done APAN though, and, well, be sure to powder your AN before you go to mix it with your AP (sucks realizing that you just .. aww.. and now its too late.... cause there is no way i'm gonna crush APAN) and oven dry the AN between powdering and diapermixing.

I prefer 'APUN' (urea nitrate and AP), for not being hygroscopic too.

You do understand that upon contact with moisture Urea nitrate disasociates to nitric acid and urea thus if any moisture is presant in the mix your Ap is sitting in a silly acidic medium, which one thinks is not particularly safe.

By now NO organic peroxide is rendered safe enough to be used by professionals. All are to sensitive. For prime explosive silver fulminate is much, much safer to use. Lead azide also. Both are easy to make. If you can get sodium azide, use lead azide. Making it is double ion displacement reaction of sodium azide and some lead salt. Solutions MUST BE diluted and filtered. Ratios are 1 mol of lead salt : 2 mols of sodium azide. If you can not get it, make silver fulminate. It's easy.
For main charge it is much better to use picric acid. It's safe as long as you keep it in plastic container. If properly made, you can store it, even. Pure enough, and that is form you get, when you make it from phenol or Aspirin, it can be stored for decades..It can be casted in various shapes, including cylinder with conic hole on one side, or you can make it cylindric, prismatic or any shape. But you must not melt it in metal can, use pyrex. Also you must not cast it in metal casing, use cardboard.
Melting point is 122 deg C and igniting point is 320 deg.C, so it's enough difference - room for safety. Of course, you will use sand bath for melting, not an opened flame or hot plate directly. You can also use loose christ. powder, as you get it when you make it. You can even powder it more, mix fine powder it with wax, to get plastic mixture. Casted charge has greatest density and VoD, 7350 m/sec. But it's a bit harder to initiate. Some loose powder around cap will boost it enough.
Sound you'll hear,if you use 50 g charge is louder than heavy caliber canon. If you wont some mechanical effect, it is also impressive. it will break stone, concrete, even if it is simply left on the surface of massive rock and activated. If you make shape charge, it can puncture steel at least double thickness than diameter of the charge is.
But the best properties of picric acid, advantages over various mixtures are ease of synthesis, great - nearly indefinite stability of pure product, and the fact that - without the cap, it can not explode. If ignited by flame it simply burns. It's not hygroscopic at all. If you wear gloves and some mask against breathing the dust - it's safe, of course if you put the cap in only if, and when you wont to activate device, not in advance.

It's still pretty damn hygroscopic. I was doing a demonstration for a chem class(IM forces related), and to my dismay, my APPN was too wet and just kind of disappeared and left a scattered pile of KNO3. :( I had to dessicate it and comeback to the school the next day to make up for it(they wouldn't pay me >:(.

Nah, it isn't hygroscopic. If anything your AP was too moist from the start and you got the PN wet.

I'd had a handful of experiments with both, and I'd greatly prefer APPN, with the AN I had more trouble with - mostly due to it absorbing moisture, and yeah. if I were you I'd just make some ANWAX or something, and just use an AP cap in it, it'll give you better results anyway.

That would be one BIG ASS cap. That is if you are trying to det it without a booster.

By now NO organic peroxide is rendered safe enough to be used by professionals. All are to sensitive. For prime explosive silver fulminate is much, much safer to use.
LOLWUT! You gonna get people killed spreading bullshit information like that. FFS if you look up wikipedia first think you see "Silver fulminate is a primary explosive that has very little practical value due to its extreme sensitivity. The impact of a single water droplet has been known to detonate several milligrams of silver fulminate." Now tell me that it is "much much safer to use" than HMTD, MEKP or even AP for that matter. Im talking about sensitivity, not storage). Now if you meant silver acetylide then that's a completley different story. Lead azide is ok though.

You do understand that upon contact with moisture Urea nitrate disasociates to nitric acid and urea thus if any moisture is presant in the mix your Ap is sitting in a silly acidic medium, which one thinks is not particularly safe.
Shit, there's a name I haven't seen in ages.


As for the topic, I've always preferred APPN, though NG owns any secondary class organic peroxide/oxidizer comp.

In Wikipedia you can find reliable and not so reliable info. Yes, it has litlle use, but mostly because they use mercury fulminate, which is much cheaper. But,according to Yugoslav army Explosives technology book, which was taken from Military academy library, when war had begun, when we attacked Yugoslav army installations, barracs and schools-and that is supposed to be better source than Wikipedia, It'ss written there that impact sensitivity of mercury salt is 4 kgcm, and for silver salt it's 11. So, mercury fulminate explodes when you put it under 1 kg of weight which had to fall from 4 cm - same as with NG, and silver salt will explode from same, 1 kg weight fallen from 11 cm. So mercury salt is 2.5 times more sensitive. Lead azide needs also 11 kgcm.. HMTD needs 4 kgcm impulse. For AP I could not find data, it's written that it's too sensitive for any use. That data you find in Wikipedia is probably for silver acetilenide-carbide Ag2C2.
It's true that we, with 4.5 million citizens and no arms at beginning of the war, defeated-beat out shit and God from Serbs,which were 6 million citizen country, with trains and trains of arms, 4. army in Europe, during our Storm over Krajina operation. But books are probably still to be correct.It,s yust a fact that they were bad solliders, allways drunk, not going after winning the war, but rather killing as many people and rape as many women as possible.

In Wikipedia you can find reliable and not so reliable info. Yes, it has litlle use, but mostly because they use mercury fulminate, which is much cheaper. But,according to Yugoslav army Explosives technology book, which was taken from Military academy library, when war had begun, when we attacked Yugoslav army installations, barracs and schools-and that is supposed to be better source than Wikipedia, It'ss written there that impact sensitivity of mercury salt is 4 kgcm, and for silver salt it's 11. So, mercury fulminate explodes when you put it under 1 kg of weight which had to fall from 4 cm - same as with NG, and silver salt will explode from same, 1 kg weight fallen from 11 cm. So mercury salt is 2.5 times more sensitive. Lead azide needs also 11 kgcm.. HMTD needs 4 kgcm impulse. For AP I could not find data, it's written that it's too sensitive for any use. That data you find in Wikipedia is probably for silver acetilenide-carbide Ag2C2.


Wait, you tell me what you read in books, and reference military usage in 1920/1940, while i have hands on experience with Ag2C2 and lead azide AND all 3 peroxides i mentioned, AND mercury fulminate (not AgONC though) and you tell me that this sensitivity data "is probably for silver acetilenide-carbide Ag2C2" ? Ag2C2 double salts imo/ime - THE BEST primary that i have worked with, and yes lead azide is nice, but i dont like working with toxic materials. Let me tell you, regardles of the numbers you posted, NG is not as impact sensitive as mercury fulminate, hell even mekp takes more impact/friction abuse than mercury fulminate. I would imagine silver fulminate be even worse. Silver acetylide otoh, takes alot more abuse than any fulminate. Don't quote outdated information in an argument against people with actual experience, however if synth your own, balance the ph and recrystalize for a pure and stable sample, then do some testing yourself, or at least consult other people that you know to be credible...


It's true that we, with 4.5 million citizens and no arms at beginning of the war, defeated-beat out shit and God from Serbs,which were 6 million citizen country, with trains and trains of arms, 4. army in Europe, during our Storm over Krajina operation. But books are probably still to be correct.It,s yust a fact that they were bad solliders, allways drunk, not going after winning the war, but rather killing as many people and rape as many women as possible.
...? and this relates to the thread how?

By now NO organic peroxide is rendered safe enough to be used by professionals. All are to sensitive. For prime explosive silver fulminate is much, much safer to use. Lead azide also.

1- Lead Azide is dangerously toxic.
2- It is as unstable as TATP (well not THAT sensitive, but close).
3- Silver fulminate ? Why not nitrogen triiodide while you're at it ?

Book which I mentioned was not about facts found between two WW, but new. All about modern explosives, tetryl,nitramines, all about MOX mixtures, PBX PTX, C-compositions, rocket fuels etc.
So....I belive the book, alltough it also consists old knowledge.
And how fact that recently we had war going here reflects on other things?
Well......we have war here once in 30 to 50 years, so we are learned to it...
And, also I had sinth MF, it was first real explosive I made,after I made BP, many, many years ago.
Later I had switched to LA. Silver salts I had also. Honestly I never write about things I had not tried. If I write, I say that I had not tried that. And.....from NG I get migrena, even from litlle amount which was sweating from ANal charges I was handling,and I had never had heavy metal poisoning from pyro.
About friction sensitivity you are right, anorganic prime EX can not take much friction. I do not know why, but things you are talking about Ag2C2 do not fit in my experience.My was nearly so sensitive ( yes I made it also ) as NI3,and Ag fulminate required real hit. AgN3 even more.....
I had litlle experience with organic peroxides, it is true, but know many cases in which peroxy ketones and peroxy ethers were cause of accidents in labs....