I watched this interview where Will Smith was defending Tom Cruise and Scientology. He actually made a really good point. It was something to the effect of, "how can people hate Scientology so much, when most of them believe that a virgin gave birth to their savior?"

Now, I don't take that to mean that Scientology ISN'T absurd, but it does remind us that many, perhaps all religions have equal amounts of absurdity. The biggest, most widespread example is, of course, Christianity. Aside from the virgin giving birth, this religion requires belief in an invisible, omnipotent, omnipresent being that created the Earth a few thousand years ago, and then put all of the plants, animals, and humans on it in a week. There is also mention of countless impossible occurences (miracles) in this religion's scripture, as well as the idea that a loving being will throw people into an eternal hell if they don't worship him.

Of course, we can get into all sorts of debates about what is non-literal, what corrupt religious figures might have added into the Bible, etc. The point is that the above ideas are absolutely contradictory to the reality we experience, yet a very large portion of Western society believes them. (And in case someone does want to argue about non-literal things, etc. etc., the biggest tenant of the religion is still that there is an "omnipotent, omnipresent, all-knowing God.")

So, while Scientology's teachings are undoubtedly silly, I don't really think practicing Christians (among other religions, of course) can point fingers. They will, surely...but they shouldn't.

I'd say my main problem is that Scientology is so OBVIOUSLY bullshit, yet celebrities keep getting pulled into it. Any hope I had in humanity...Scientologists are making me lose it.

Hay, guiz, let's bash on xianity sum moar, yah dat haznt bin dun.

Hay, guiz, let's bash on xianity sum moar, yah dat haznt bin dun.

I'm talking about many religions. I didn't want to go through every single one, so I chose the one that is the most dominant in the world. Besides, the main point here is just to ease up on Scientology.

I'm talking about many religions. I didn't want to go through every single one, so I chose the one that is the most dominant in the world. Besides, the main point here is just to ease up on Scientology.

Seriously, you haven't brought up anything new here. Most people that post in My God reject any religion as a matter of logic and any form of non-religious theism as a matter of principle. This isn't really a discussion, it's just saying: "Scientology is bullshit, but so is Christianity and all other religions." It's a 14-year old atheist spewing his hate towards religion. Yes Scientology is one fucked up religion, but you're honestly not bringing anything new or even interesting to the table, here.

Seriously, you haven't brought up anything new here. Most people that post in My God reject any religion as a matter of logic and any form of non-religious theism as a matter of principle. This isn't really a discussion, it's just saying: "Scientology is bullshit, but so is Christianity and all other religions." It's a 14-year old atheist spewing his hate towards religion. Yes Scientology is one fucked up religion, but you're honestly not bringing anything new or even interesting to the table, here.

If you don't want to discuss it, don't. This is the religion forum, so I brought this religion-focused topic here. If it turns out it's more suited to SG, then one of the mods can move it. If it's already been discussed to death, then the thread will die. There's no need to get all butthurt about it. You're the only one coming off as a "14 year old athiest spewing hate."

And fyi, I'm really apathetic towards all religions. At no point was I being "hateful" towards Christianity. I was just pointing out various aspects of it that are absurd in realistic terms. Saying that something is absurd or impossible is not the same as "spewing hate".

Grow up. As for me, I'm not going to help derail the topic by continuing to argue about this bullshit.

It's a 14-year old atheist spewing his hate towards religion.

I didn't get the feeling at all that he was *spewing hate* - just pointing out the obvious and sharing an opinion. At least it was well-articulated and had some content.

LOTS of threads may seem overdone to the regulars here - but could have been missed by others. Kind of like godfather the acolyte bumping all those old threads yesterday. Seemed like he had a lot he wanted to input to those topics, and where the threads were old to us, they were new to him.

We truly should be more accommodating to folks!

That said -

I can't believe Will Smith is defending Scientology. :(

And what is it about Scientology that is so appealing to the rich and famous? Definitely a trend there.

I read a reader-editorial blurb in Time magazine that called Scientology the new Designer Religion.

http://blog.industrialbrand.com/images/consumer_jesus_banksy.jpg

The comparison is obvious, but you do not really want to draw it to the attention of the religious. There are a couple of reasons for this. First, they may possibly agree with you, and then argue that Scientology should have religious rights. Second, they may disagree with you and then perceive everything you say about removing Scientology to be latently referring to their religion too. Either way, you will possibly lose support in removing the Church of Scientology from society.

First, they may possibly agree with you, and then argue that Scientology should have religious rights.

And why not?

Christianity and Christ are all about Love, Understanding, and Forgiveness (IMO, most Christians don't actually follow these tenents unfortunately).

Scientology is an excuse for rich people to hoard their money.

Reason: fuck, I promised I wouldn't add content :(



Don't worry, you didn't.

Zing!

Don't worry, you didn't.

Zing!

Changed my mind... this thread needs less of this:

Christianity and Christ are all about Love, Understanding, and Forgiveness (IMO, most Christians don't actually follow these tenents unfortunately).

Scientology is an excuse for rich people to hoard their money.

and more of this:

content

And why not?

I gave a reason: because "you will possibly lose support [and power] in removing the Church of Scientology from society."

I gave a reason: because "you will possibly lose support [and power] in removing the Church of Scientology from society."

The way I see it, religion should be removed by personal democratic decision, not by force. There's a clear trend of irreligiosity worldwide over the past couple centuries, I don't think force is the way to go here. Look at Russia; decades of religious scorn and near barring of religion altogether. Today: A church across from CIA headquarters. Forced repression only leads to more religion in the end. If the Church of Scientology needs to be removed from society, individuals will remove it gradually, there's no need to be militant about this.

The authors of the Bible weren't science fiction writers.

The way I see it, religion should be removed by personal democratic decision, not by force. There's a clear trend of irreligiosity worldwide over the past couple centuries, I don't think force is the way to go here. Look at Russia; decades of religious scorn and near barring of religion altogether. Today: A church across from CIA headquarters. Forced repression only leads to more religion in the end. If the Church of Scientology needs to be removed from society, individuals will remove it gradually, there's no need to be militant about this.

I do not care if people believe in aliens, nor do I believe they need religious rights to do so. My problem is with the church, which is nothing but a very dangerous pyramid scheme (pyramid schemes are illegal, btw). France and Germany realized this, so they banned it (the church, not the beliefs). But the UK and USA seem to be taking a different approach, and the more religious rights the church gets, the more it becomes identified as a religion, and the harder it becomes to be removed from society. France and Germany may even have to revoke their ban, if they begin to become accused of religious intolerance, making it even harder to remove. But if you don't treat it as a religion, then it isn't religious intolerance. :)

The authors of the Bible weren't science fiction writers.

Agreed--there is nothing scientific about the fiction therein.

Of course, there is SOME validity there, but there is a rather unfavorable signal to noise ratio.

Here's an idea:

It could be that Tom Cruise befriended Will Smith to market Scientology to African Americans. He was probably paid to publicly defend the organization. If we were talking about anything else, this would be paranoia, but with Scientology, this stuff is very possible. They've done more cunning shit than that, obviously.

The whole thing with celebrities becoming Scientologists is to make it seem glamorous and appealing. It's a big marketing scheme created by some sinister motherfuckers who literally want to take over the world by capitalizing on people's insecurities on the grandest scale imaginable.

I agree, all religions are absurd. Perhaps some slightly less absurd then others, but they all undoubtedly have their 'quirks'.

I think the recent attack on Scientology though is slightly different because it's the newest religion (correct me if I'm wrong) and so we have the most chance of actually making a dent. People have been bitching about Christianity for decades, but we all know that shit is going to be around for quite a while because of the history and popularity behind it.

I believe we see scientology as the bullshit it is, b/c it was in fact written by a bad science fiction writer, and we know that......

2,000 years from now......maybe that information will not be so easy to find or to see. My point is that if were we able to travel back in time to the invention of any religion, I think we would find a GREAT number of atheists who see the bullshit. Easy to spot total bullshit. But when living memory of the creator of the religion dies off.......get ready for some fun fiction.

Here's an idea:

It could be that Tom Cruise befriended Will Smith to market Scientology to African Americans. He was probably paid to publicly defend the organization. If we were talking about anything else, this would be paranoia, but with Scientology, this stuff is very possible. They've done more cunning shit than that, obviously.

The whole thing with celebrities becoming Scientologists is to make it seem glamorous and appealing. It's a big marketing scheme created by some sinister motherfuckers who literally want to take over the world by capitalizing on people's insecurities on the grandest scale imaginable.

You forgot to mention the NAU there.

You forgot to mention the NAU there.

No idea what that is.

No idea what that is.

It's a conspiracy.

I don't know much about scientology but I'm curious, what is the positive side? I've heard some bad things about them but lets put that aside for now. What are their beliefs? How does it affect the way they live and the actions they take?

The thing people see in the absurdity of scientology is that it is relatively new. People can remember when there was no such thing. The idea of a religion just starting up in this day and age, from a science fiction author no less, and being right, sounds absurd. Probably just as absurd as early Christians sounded back in Biblical times when they were trying to get new members. Christianity today doesn't sound as absurd, even to atheists, because it has become the status quo.

Christianity today doesn't sound as absurd, even to atheists, because it has become the status quo.

Speak for yourself.

The authors of the Bible weren't science fiction writers.

No, they were probably closer to fantasy writers.

My problem is with the church, which is nothing but a very dangerous pyramid scheme (pyramid schemes are illegal, btw).
How so? You give them money, they provide you a service. Or so I thought.

Scientology is essentially a pyramid scheme wrapped up in the trappings of a religion; this is why it's so potent and successful. Regardless of what one's feelings on religion in general are, if you become properly informed about all the terrible things Scientology has been responsible for, you'll rightly see it as a dangerous cult. Yes, crazy space overlords and dead alien souls are rediculous beliefs, just as rediculous as virgin births and cosmic jew zombies, but that is secondary to the organization's crimes and misdeeds.

www.xenu.net is an excellent resource for information Scientology would rather you don't know about.

Those of you suggesting that people "ease up" on Scientology do not know what the fuck you are talking about. Get informed.