so I have decided to use a nitrocelluose liner to ignite my smoke device. the problem is, I am using this product called "roebic".
Here's the MSDS: http://www.roebic.com/pdf/DrainFlowMSDS.pdf

I don't know if it's the buffers, or if its the process, but everything I put into it DISSOLVES!!
Is this supposed to happen in a nitration? I have tried cotton (pure), coffee filters, 100% cotton paper, PENNIES! (to see if NOx evolved) and nothing.

I've tried 1:1 2:1 1:2 of KNO3:H2SO4 and it always does this.

It fumes white (SO3? NOx?) and everything dissolves and is unrecoverable.....except the penny, that shit got eaten up.

Drain cleaner shouldn't have any SO3, that could lead to excessive splattering.
besides, the MSDS sais 90%

Maybe it's steam?
Try catching some condens on a glass filled with ice and test the pH.

okay, so after doing a few tests I've realized that my kno3 was contaminated (im assuming sugar) and was hydrated as well. and yeah it was pure water steam coming out.

After getting fresh KNO3 from my bag and processing it, the cotton is no longer dissolving.....


does anyone one know if acetone has any funky reactions with KNO3+Sugar? I plan on testing coating a small ball first but I'm just trying to make sure so I don't lose my extremities.

cotton pads are dissolving but paper is not.....paper is not yet dry so i cant test flammability yet


after a 10 minute soak, the paper burns better but not in a flash.

Let the paper soak in some Hydrochloric acid overnight, it breaks apart the cellulose chains.

I got it to work by the addition of H2O in

~1H20+KNO3+H2SO4---> heat+fun stuff that doesnt dissolve

I cant say exactly how much water I added as I was simply trying to bring the PH down little by little and don't have accurate equipment. however it was a little less than the volume of both the H2SO4 and KNO3 together...there was a CLEAR layer of solution and then a layer of K2SO4 on top with red tint (dye/acid?) the buffer in a dilute solution is brownish red.....

the addition of water seemed to break the buffer down because ALOT of heat evolved and I had to run it outside for fear of fumes and bad shit and make an ice bath ...nitration is currently in progress. will post again when I have dried and based it


any ideas on what's keeping this from being as easy as everyone says it is? Murphy's law maybe?

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGG :mad:

DOES NOT BURN!!!!!!

WTF AM I DOING WRONG!??!?!?!?!

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGG :mad:

DOES NOT BURN!!!!!!

WTF AM I DOING WRONG!??!?!?!?!

hahahha...Calm down.

After nitrating cellulose you will have to dry/desiccate it.

This is not an easy job...you will most likely have to leave your NC under a 60 watt lamp for a few hours to make sure it is fairly dry...and then proceed with putting it into a sealed container with some freshly powdered damp rid (CaCl2)

Remember to wear gloves and eye protection at all times and be careful to not inhale any CaCl2 dust (it will burn the shit out of your throat and mouth).
Use a gas mask if you have one.

Because you used the nitrate salt method of producing HNO3 for your nitration you might have to do another nitration via the nitration salt method to get a product that burns without any residue...that is assuming you don't have access to conc HNO3.

I don't have access to a still or HNO3 and I always have to nitrate twice...both times leaving the cellulose in the nitration mixture over night.

hahahha...Calm down.

After nitrating cellulose you will have to dry/desiccate it.

This is not an easy job...you will most likely have to leave your NC under a 60 watt lamp for a few hours to make sure it is fairly dry...and then proceed with putting it into a sealed container with some freshly powdered damp rid (CaCl2)

Remember to wear gloves and eye protection at all times and be careful to not inhale any CaCl2 dust (it will burn the shit out of your throat and mouth).
Use a gas mask if you have one.

Because you used the nitrate salt method of producing HNO3 for your nitration you might have to do another nitration via the nitration salt method to get a product that burns without any residue...that is assuming you don't have access to conc HNO3.

I don't have access to a still or HNO3 and I always have to nitrate twice...both times leaving the cellulose in the nitration mixture over night.


Check out brainfeverts self contained HNO3 still. All you need is a shot glass, a mason jar, plastic baggy, your xnitrate salt, your acid, and a heat source.

I managed to make a small amount however it certainly was not enough to do anything with....

got a Graham in the mail yesterday though :D

Attn: please remove my post in the other nitration thread I do not wish to hijack that

and excuse my lack of thought on that matter:rolleyes:



So I've been trying to get it to where my cotton does not dissolve (yes I'm still having that problem) and have possibly found a good way to get a liquid mixture if you are willing to waste alot of material.

as follows is the half ghetto setup I made,
It was done in my kitchen :eek:(don't bitch I bet you wish you had a kitchen as large and as well ventilated as mine) which has a double door to allow beach winds to pass through. Please comment as to either the safety or the procedure.


boiling flask : 1000ml mason jar, switched to 200ml after I realized the large amount of reflux happening

Tubing : various diameters of PVC measured to fit as both water pipes for the graham and fit as a simple male female connector, the water jacket lines were fitted to the kitchen sink

there was a problem getting the vapor to travel even though it was slightly declined from the boiler so I added an input valve with a small air motor.

I would pump air till it began fuming out the bottom, the third and fourth time there was only white vapor that re condensed:).

Heat: a pot of boiling water on my electric stove temps of 100, 120, and 140 were tried the last being done in an oil bath

the fittings were a couple of Teflon coated bags that I'd made rigid with wire mesh and epoxy with the threading of the jars impressioned upon for an acid resistant screw cap.


distillation and decantation of liquid from the mix in the boiling flask will recrystallize some of the unused KNO3 in the cooling jar (mason 150ml) and FUME LIKE WHITE FURY:mad:!

once cooled to a proper handling temp decant mixed acids from crystals and clean the jar well and redo the whole process.

after about three or four distillations you should have (depending upon the efficiency your setup, mine is getting better as I learn) 80-150 ml of fuming HNO3, a jar full of dehydrated HNO3 and H2SO4, and lots of smelly red fuming shite in a separate jar ready to be based and done away with.


I now have about freaking 500ml of cotton acid mix split into separate jars to prevent a runaway. it fumes whit if you disturb it, unable to determine the conc. though
i'll be editing this

If you guys are still stuck on NC, it may be a good idea to look at your cellulose source. For the guy trying to make flashpaper, I know that a lot of paper is treated with all kinds of staining chemicals like peroxides and hypochlorites, and god knows what else. So you might want to try a different type of paper/cellulose and also make sure you have good agitation through out the nitration. Stir it constantly and make sure all the cotton is submerged in the mixed acids. I've nitrated cotton balls many times with just simple H2SO4/NH4NO3 solution. Sometimes the nitration is incomplete and the NC burns incompletely or slow, so I nitrate it a second time and it's perfect and performs flawlessly. So make sure your cellulose doesn't have any other gunk in it, and try a double nitration if it doesn't work the first time. Everything else you say your doing sounds spot on.

My problem lays mainly with the viscosity of the KNO3 H2SO4 solution *cough*sludge*cough* as well as the fact that my cotton eventually turns to hard balls of shit... its getting nitrated okay in the HNO3, but when I use the separated mix I get partially dissolved cellulose that wont filter well.

How does one properly powder fluffly Cellulose with a ball mill,
Do you add a little water?

Anyways, I find the best way to make ''flash paper'' is to make your NC, then dissolve in acetone, fish out any insoluble material, then spread out the paste that forms onto the highest part of a big pyrex dish that is 10 degrees away from standing vertically...just prop the dish against a wall so it forms a sort of ramp, the paste should slowly run down the dish to the lower part of the dish but try to prevent it forming a puddle at the bottom.

Once the acetone evaporates you now have a white plastic ''paper'' stuck to your dish, put this in a warm dry place and after a week you should have a thin white plastic ''paper'' that combusts in a ''flash''.