One day, Zen teacher Sekito Kisen came upon his student, Yakusan Igen, as he sat in meditation. Sekito asked ,"What are you doing?"

Yakusan replied," I'm not doing anything."

"Then you are just sitting idly," said Sekito.

"If I were sitting idly," said Yakusan," Then I'd be doing something."

"You say you're not doing anything. What is it that you're not doing?" asked Sekito.

"Even buddhas don't know," said Yakusan.

The above is from Meditation Now or Never, by Steve Hagen. I thought it was eminently worthy of sharing, since it says an awful lot about meditation in general and Zen in particular.

And--rather then get caught up in speculation over which forum it really belongs in--which would be SO not-Zen--I decided to post it here first, and more it to SotD, with a permanent redirect.

Huh?
Is this about the nature of reality, logic, or the limits of our mind caused by having a physical body?

All of the above.

All of the above.

Actually none of the above.

It's hogwash, claiming that doing nothing is doing something isn't doing nothing.

A twisted use of language contrasting labels with being.

Doing nothing is sitting idly. Doing nothing is being, which is doing. Whether or not you are conscious of this fact means nothing, other than that you are ill-equipped to explain this to others.

Doing nothing is being. There is no difference between idle hands and hands that are currently doing nothing.

Considering this is Buddhism we're talking about, I interpret it like this:

Don't analyze, don't think. In meditation, just be and clarity will follow

Actually none of the above.

It's hogwash, claiming that doing nothing is doing something isn't doing nothing.

A twisted use of language contrasting labels with being.

Doing nothing is sitting idly. Doing nothing is being, which is doing. Whether or not you are conscious of this fact means nothing, other than that you are ill-equipped to explain this to others.

Doing nothing is being. There is no difference between idle hands and hands that are currently doing nothing.

So how bout you get down to some of this doing nothing and see what happens to your perspective of the world?

Hogwash?

I think you'd find it very useful in your daily living.

Ate,

All of the above.

Justify that.

That is me trying to share my perspective with him. Oneness is an experience as well, telling you why I see things that way is not going to share with you that experience very well.

That's called a cop-out.

Then this is where our zen conversation ends.

if some one has to tell you, you'll never know

Considering this is Buddhism we're talking about, I interpret it like this:

Don't analyze, don't think. In meditation, just be and clarity will follow

Prolonged meditation seems like a good way to make yourself braindead.

Prolonged meditation seems like a good way to make yourself braindead.

Well yes it brings one to a simpler, perhaps more primordial state of mind. But you wont end up like some sort of vegetable

There are changes in the way a brain functions during meditation. This isn't to say that they're 'bad' (in the sense of experiencing it) google a bit and read descriptions of enlightenment

http://www.crystalinks.com/medbrain.html meditation and the brain.

- example of some things that can happen

Prolonged meditation seems like a good way to make yourself braindead.

Not at all. The idea of meditation--in the Buddhist sense--is to be fully aware of the present moment, quite the antithesis of being brain-dead.

It is more like being "brain-alive," a state with which many Americans are unfamiliar.

Not at all. The idea of meditation--in the Buddhist sense--is to be fully aware of the present moment, quite the antithesis of being brain-dead.

It is more like being "brain-alive," a state with which many Americans are unfamiliar.

This is true. I don't have much personal experience with meditation, but I know a Buddhist who does.

You apparently have so much greater clarity of mind, calmness and you see things as they "truly are". When ego is out of the way the mind really can be so vast in a way you never realized

the state can be attained, and it is full mastery of self I say. Mastery of movements, of breathing, of thoughts, like a pinpoint needle you decide what your destiny is. But it can take work, and yes bringing yourself into the present is the key, but a more effective approach is devote a good prolonged amount of hours into being completely present: if you can do this, you will see what all these monks are yammering about, and it is JUST as they say.

A life's work can be devoted to getting "there". Once "there" you can come back "down" but in the back of your mind, the truth will be, all the sex, drugs and money in the world will never equal the happiness of having no monkey mind and being completely in the present.

Because, if those things were so much greater, and Buddha was born into riches, how come he didn't just up and go right back to it? Could it be because there is a higher happiness than things in this world?

Don't be fooled by those around you who believe they've "seen it all". People, ESPECIALLY Americans, haven't seen a damn thing compared to what I have, and it's sad, because I find it truly hard to connect with them in any way at all. Now my only goal is to get there again, and show others the way when I have sufficient energy to keep mastery at hand, for the rest of this life.

The zen monks understand this universe in ways beyond words. Everything they say is the ultimate religion in this world, the highest truths, nothing else compares. To be in the state of mind they have reached takes great care, experimentation, balls, and a whole lot of attention and patience. The gift is mysterious truth, and the inevitable inability to relay it correctly with words. But they try.

Oh, I know one!

A traveling priest, very accomplished, visited a well known Zen teacher in the middle of nowhere. As it was raining outside, he left his shoes and umbrella in the hallway. While he and the teacher were drinking tea in the adjacent room, the teacher asked him whether he left the umbrella to the right or to the left of his shoes. The traveler didn't know, and thus stayed with the teacher for six years to study Zen.

^All that is very interesting, but what happened to the duck?

Prolonged meditation seems like a good way to make yourself braindead.

It is about leaving the two most common delusions: past and future. It isn't being brain-dead, but heightening yourself to what is real. The past died and the future can't exist; right now is all that is. Meditation is experiencing what is rather than trying to capture what is no more and what never will be. If you reach this perception of no perception, you will find yourself perfectly focused on everything you do while in the present; nothing distracts, nothing attracts. You just are who you are...perfect and complete.