The answer is entirely up to god.

Yes

God has a knack for paradoxes.

Yes, infact beings more powerful than God already exist.

God can defy all paradoxes of human logic, he's omnipotent.

God is not real.

God is nothing....

God is the sun!

Depends on how you define powerful. Power has many meanings, most of which imply (a capacity for) control or force.

NOW, if God is real then I say he created something more powerful than himself. The universe and everything in it. I say this because the universe is abound in things that imply a capacity for control or force.

God is absent from everything, anywhere we look, with the exception of the human imagination. Being absent as he is, a dandelion is more powerful. It can exert a force on humans in the form of allergies.

So if God ever was real, I say yes he can and did create something more powerful.

Since God is a figment of human imagination, he can do whatever a person can imagine, only if the effect is confined within human imagination. When I was a kid I called it pretending.

In my reality, God is not an entity that stands apart from creation--God IS the creation, self-created, unmoved, unmoving--or rather, God is the field of sentient intelligence and information that underlies and supports visible reality.

However, we create our own reality--as any number of mystics, weird holy men, and quantum physicists will attest. It therefore follows as day must follow night, that the Bible kind of got it right when it said that we are created in the image and likeness of God. Our reality includes God, and the God we acknowledge (or not) is a God of our own creation (see the sveen faces of God thread formore on this.)

God is absent from everything, anywhere we look, with the exception of the human imagination. Being absent as he is, a dandelion is more powerful. It can exert a force on humans in the form of allergies.

So if God ever was real, I say yes he can and did create something more powerful.

Since God is a figment of human imagination, he can do whatever a person can imagine, only if the effect is confined within human imagination. When I was a kid I called it pretending.

Pretty much everything BrokeProphet said I agree with, but especially this.

It may be true but it is hardly in the spirit of the thing. It is about the concept not the reality.

And no. Even if God did defeat the paradox and create something more powerful, it would still be deficient. Afterall it was brought into creation, this means it lacks infinity. Unlike God it hasn't existed forever. If it isn't infinite the only other alternative is finite.

But God wouldn't be able to anyway it is a logical error. You can't create something more powerful than something infinitely powerful.

IF there were a god that created humans, that god gave us the right to choose not to believe in him. Therefore, i believe that if there really was a god, that we are more powerful than him, because we choose if he exists or not.

God created Lucifer.

Lucifer manipulated God in the Book of Jobe.

Lucifer is more powerfull than God.

I agree with ArmsMerchant.

He did... it's called Google.

Depends on how you define powerful. Power has many meanings, most of which imply (a capacity for) control or force.

NOW, if God is real then I say he created something more powerful than himself. The universe and everything in it. I say this because the universe is abound in things that imply a capacity for control or force.

Well, if u r implying power as a capacity over control then god truly has that. How many people on earth worship god? How many people's lives are governed by their beliefs towards god? It is hard for me to explain this in scientific terms, because god is above Science. Everything has its limits, even science, the only thing that does not is god, he is in an entirely different realm of things. I could give u an example, we humans can understand what 'nothing' is, but we still will never be truly able to define it, because it does not exist in this realm of existence.

You say the universe is more powerful than god? I say the universe IS god, since god has infinite power, he in a manner of speaking IS everything. In the best terms as i can put it, he is everything that ever existed and never existed. The universe on the other hand is just the collection of matter and scientific laws that exists in this realm. To compare the universe to God, is not much different than comparing a forrest to mankind(who live in it, not to mention a mankind with infinite power), and believe me, a man is very capable of destroying a forrest.

God is absent from everything, anywhere we look, with the exception of the human imagination. Being absent as he is, a dandelion is more powerful. It can exert a force on humans in the form of allergies.

Well if we were to say god is absent everywhere we look then we could also say the same thing about oxygen, gravity, inertia and all other invisible forces. The difference between u and me is i see god everywhere i look. You say we find him in our imagination, and u r right about that, but how important is the imagination? What is yesterday but an image of the past, and tommorow but a vision of the future?With out the imagination there would be no science(which is a great thing) to even debunct god. As i said earlier god does exert a strong force and even if u do claim that its only in the imagination, the evidence is clear in the physical world.
.

Since God is a figment of human imagination, he can do whatever a person can imagine, only if the effect is confined within human imagination. When I was a kid I called it pretending.
There are an overwhelming amount of people on earth who believe in god, there have been an overwhellming amount of people who have claimed to see miracles, and feel god's presense. There are a number of geniuses who believe in god. There are things which simply can not be explained, are we to ignore these numbers and assume most of the world is pretending?

There are an overwhelming amount of people on earth who believe in god, there have been an overwhellming amount of people who have claimed to see miracles, and feel god's presense,there are things which simply can not be explained, are we to ignore these numbers and assume most of the world is pretending?

The fact that lots of people believe in something for which there is no evidence, does not make its existence anymore likely.

The fact that lots of people believe in something for which there is no evidence, does not make its existence anymore likely.

The fact that many people believe it IS evidence.

There are an overwhelming amount of people on earth who believe in god, there have been an overwhellming amount of people who have claimed to see miracles, and feel god's presense. There are a number of geniuses who believe in god. There are things which simply can not be explained, are we to ignore these numbers and assume most of the world is pretending?

The fact that many people believe it IS evidence.

IT IS NOT EVIDENCE.

An overwhelming number of people used to believe the world was flat. Does that affect the probability of how the world is shaped?

Also, polls shows that scientists are on average far more likely to be atheists than the rest of the public. So fuck your few religious genii.

There is no God.

That being said, I am of the belief that if God existed, if YHWH existed, then no, He/It wouldn't be able to create something more powerful than Himself.

but

He WoUlD be able to create something that we THINK is more powerful. In this case, YHWH would be something that we could not fully understand, something that, even with a tremendous amount of evidence outlining His power, ability, and being, our minds still cannot wrap around His true nature.

This created being, the God-Plus, would appear to be more powerful than the God-We-Know, though in reality, would have had certain restrictions in place from its inception, and will have been kept in check all along, without the human understanding of this fact.

I dunno...that's a fun one to toy around with. Shame it gets circular in any attempt to avoid paradoxes, and gets paradox in any attempt to avoid circularity.

Could God make a burrito so hot He Himself could not eat it?

The fact that many people believe it IS evidence.

Step your game up pal.

Could God make a burrito so hot He Himself could not eat it?



Step your game up pal.

Okay ill admit taht wasnt very good, but in this day and age, with all the scientific knowledge we know, most of the most intelligent life form on earth believe in god, logically u could say that the information is correct.

Someone here said most scientist are atheist, but dont u think their opinions might be a little biased? There is a difference between knowledge of sciences, and knowledge of wisdom. Wisdom is attained through an understanding of life, most philosphers and such would say that god exists.

The problem is that u guys are trying to take a look at it through a rational scientifc view, but many things in this world can not be rationalized. The fact is when ur looking at a being with infinite power, the laws of science do not apply. Science will never prove that god exists as well as never disprove that god exists, because in a manner of speaking god is not inside the realm of science, science is inside the realm of god. I can't prove that god exists to u, ill admit it, but can u fully prove to urself that i exist, or anything else but ur self exists for that matter? Many things have been seen in this world that science can not explain, many many things. How do u explain all this phenomenon?

God is a higher being this us, let me give u an example, if we were to grab an ant and watch it crawl around our finger, then put it back to its colony, how would it eve begin to explain to the other ants what happened?

God is a higher being this us, let me give u an example, if we were to grab an ant and watch it crawl around our finger, then put it back to its colony, how would it eve begin to explain to the other ants what happened?

Is it talking english, or communicating with chems and touch?

Are we taking into account its limited sight?

Basically, what it would do, is TELL THEM. Easy as that. Nothing complex about it.

How do you explain something?
One idea at a time.

With the General orthodox idea of God: OT and NT God are the Same than no, he cant create something more powerful than he is because, he is ignorant and claims in a jealous way that he is the only God! Yet, in his ignorance does not bother to ask where his powers came from.

This is the gnostic idea of our supposed God! The Source could create something more powerful than it because, it would become that more powerful thing! The Source is ever transcendent.

There is no God.

That being said, I am of the belief that if God existed, if YHWH existed, then no, He/It wouldn't be able to create something more powerful than Himself.

but

He WoUlD be able to create something that we THINK is more powerful. In this case, YHWH would be something that we could not fully understand, something that, even with a tremendous amount of evidence outlining His power, ability, and being, our minds still cannot wrap around His true nature.

This created being, the God-Plus, would appear to be more powerful than the God-We-Know, though in reality, would have had certain restrictions in place from its inception, and will have been kept in check all along, without the human understanding of this fact.


Actually that is impossible. God is all loving right, in other words infinitely good. Would something infinitely good decieve us? Nope. God cannot do anything bad or he would not be infinitely good, so wouldn't be God.

Mr. Blonde don't make out you speak for all philosophers. I mean what do you mean "most philosophers believe in God" what a crock of shit. There are so many different opinions in philosophy it's almost stupid.

Actually that is impossible. God is all loving right, in other words infinitely good. Would something infinitely good decieve us? Nope. God cannot do anything bad or he would not be infinitely good, so wouldn't be God.



What makes you think that deception is evil? There's no way you can arrive at that conclusion with a clear head.

snip

It's the same old retarded argument which have been destroyed a thousand times before. I'll destroy these specifically if you really want me to, as I really can't be bothered if you're just going to run away and never reply if our side wins, as it always does.

You know, you guys are one of the main reasons why God had a mental breakdown and blew up XD :P

What makes you think that deception is evil? There's no way you can arrive at that conclusion with a clear head.

What is good about decieving people?

What makes you think deception is not evil?
I personally do think it is a bad thing to decieve people. I am sure many others would agree. Lying to people is bad, it is deception. No one likes to be fooled into believing false information. It is what the devil supposedly does, the personification of evil. How do we have free will if God is influencing our behaviours by feeding us certain information?

Please explain how it is not "evil" to decieve people.
I feel pretty clear headed right now.

You know, you guys are one of the main reasons why God had a mental breakdown and blew up XD :P

God has infinite brain power!!!

What is good about decieving people?

What makes you think deception is not evil?
I personally do think it is a bad thing to decieve people. I am sure many others would agree. Lying to people is bad, it is deception. No one likes to be fooled into believing false information. It is what the devil supposedly does, the personification of evil. How do we have free will if God is influencing our behaviours by feeding us certain information?

Please explain how it is not "evil" to decieve people.
I feel pretty clear headed right now.



Truth, and letting that truth be revealed plays no part in Good vs Evil. Holding back knowledge that unicorns once existed would not be an evil action.

As someone interested in Truth, and the spreading of that truth, I see deception as bad, as harmful to the progression of the collective consciousness and the expansion of cumulative knowledge, but I do not see it as evil.

You have free will because you can choose to do something, regardless of what you know about it. Where deception comes into play is you might not know the true consequences or results of making that decision, but it was your will to do so. I think you should find better words, because free will isn't harmed at all.

When you're interrogated by cops, they can legally tell you your friend already confessed, implicated you both in the crime, and that you should too. Now, you have a choice: confess, or keep your mouth shut and don't own up to anything. No matter what you decide to do at this point, you're exercising your Free Will, your ability to choose which action you will take.

btw, I'm not trying to compare the Legal system to Good vs Evil, I'm just using this as an example of Free Will with incorrect information.

Think about your example with the cops and how they are using deception to try and manipulate the outcome of the events. That is how it would effect free will. Intentionally feeding false information to try and get you to do something.

Sure the person is still choosing but if they have been set up and put into a situation where what they think is going on isn't going on. They would not act in the same way as if they were not being decieved. In my opinion if God were doing this, it would be interfering with free will.

No holding back knowledge that unicorns didn't exist would not be evil it is true. Holding back information of who someones parents are would be. But there is more to deception than just holding back information. Going back to your God+, creating a new God supposedly superior that people would now worship is most definitely an evil action. Everyone worshipping this fake God would go to hell for not believing and God would know this.

Personally I would call intentionally spreading false information to hold back the "collective consciousness and the expansion of cumulative knowledge" pretty evil. Did they have good intentions? No, clearly bad ones.

so... what happens if an unstoppable object hits an immovable object?


The unstoppable object moves out of the fucking way to stop an impossible paradox of lies! (and the immovable object just fucking sits there ) XD

so... what happens if an unstoppable object hits an immovable object?


The unstoppable object moves out of the fucking way to stop an impossible paradox of lies! (and the immovable object just fucking sits there ) XD

The question does not make sense. Two objects at a distance, both with relative velocity of 0 will never make contact.

That's akin to asking 'what happens when 1+1=0?'

The question does not make sense.

Haha, I think he meant unstoppable force.

The real question is, Can God microwave a burredo so hot, that He himself can't touch it?

I don't think this is as paradoxical as it seems. It comes down to how you define omnipotence in relation to God.

Let's say that when we think of God, we think of a being or force which is eternal and the embodiment of perfect goodness. Our God is omnipotent, all knowing, and self-existing.

Aquinas talked about defining God's omnipotence. He talked about two kinds of possibilities: relative possibilities, and absolute possibilities. Breathing underwater is relatively possible for fish, but not for humans barring technological assistance. Defeating a chess master in chess is possible absolutely possible, but not after he has checkmated your king.

Absolute possibility therefore pertains to things that are possible to do without involving a contradiction in terms. For example, as a bachelor, I cannot get married and still refer to myself as a bachelor. There is no such thing as a married bachelor. It's a contradiction of terms and is not possible to achieve. Therefore, when talking about absolute possibility in relation to God, omnipotence means God can do whatever he wants so long as it does not involve a contradiction of terms. God can do anything that is not logically impossible.

If I'm playing chess with God, and by some generous reason he lets me checkmate his king, it is impossible for God to win that game of chess. He could obliterate me from existence, but his omnipotence will not allow him to do that which is logically impossible and win this game.

Let's say this something more powerful than God is the example we've all heard before. A stone so heavy even God can't lift it. If God's omnipotence does not include logical impossibilities, or things that interfere with his other attributes like perpetrating an evil deed, then God's inability to create a stone he cannot lift is viewed not as a threat to his omnipotence, but a logical constraint on the definition of omnipotence itself. Because if God did create a stone he could not lift, his attribute of omnipotence would be defeated. It is inconsistent with his attributes which are essential to him. If God creates such a stone, he has the power to bring it about that he lacks an essential attribute. It is impossible just as it is impossible for God to do an evil deed which would threaten his perfect goodness, another essential attribute.

Think about your example with the cops and how they are using deception to try and manipulate the outcome of the events. That is how it would effect free will. Intentionally feeding false information to try and get you to do something.

Sure the person is still choosing but if they have been set up and put into a situation where what they think is going on isn't going on. They would not act in the same way as if they were not being decieved. In my opinion if God were doing this, it would be interfering with free will.

No holding back knowledge that unicorns didn't exist would not be evil it is true. Holding back information of who someones parents are would be. But there is more to deception than just holding back information. Going back to your God+, creating a new God supposedly superior that people would now worship is most definitely an evil action. Everyone worshipping this fake God would go to hell for not believing and God would know this.

Personally I would call intentionally spreading false information to hold back the "collective consciousness and the expansion of cumulative knowledge" pretty evil. Did they have good intentions? No, clearly bad ones.


I'm sorry, I was going to answer your post a bit ago, then forgot.

It totally slipped my mind, the part about going to Hell for not worshiping the right deity. Yes, I could consider creating a seemingly more powerful god for that purpose evil.

But that doesn't mean that I believe deception in itself is an evul act, or takes away from our ability to make a choice, because the choices ARE genuine, and if it's an educated choice, then its well-thought out and full of reason, even if it's under false pretenses.

It would not be possible even without the intention. God is all knowing so would know all possible effects. He can do NO bad he is infinitely good, even if he does not intend it he knows it will happen.

It may be a genuine choice but it is not free will if you are being purposely guided towards a certain position. It is manipulation by definition.

@karma sleeper, I agree but enough with the bachelor examples it is the only one people ever use. :(

@karma sleeper, I agree but enough with the bachelor examples it is the only one people ever use. :(

Guess I'll have to fall back to "round square."

Absolute possibility therefore pertains to things that are possible to do without involving a contradiction in terms. For example, as a bachelor, I cannot get married and still refer to myself as a bachelor. There is no such thing as a married bachelor. It's a contradiction of terms and is not possible to achieve. Therefore, when talking about absolute possibility in relation to God, omnipotence means God can do whatever he wants so long as it does not involve a contradiction of terms. God can do anything that is not logically impossible.

And by that logic [which I agree with], omnipotence itself is a contradiction in terms, and is therefore impossible.

A truly omnipotent being would be able to do something which was logically impossible.

I think I agree with what you said.

I don't think this is as paradoxical as it seems. It comes down to how you define omnipotence in relation to God...

Well you have to see something here...
God doesn't have any physical force... so when he creates a rock... ANY rock... HE CAN'T LIFT IT, so it is possible that he can create it and not be able to lift it

This is just one of numerous logical problems a person comes across when they define a God as being Omni-everything; these problems become indictive of the fact that there is no God.

Not true, I said earlier if God made something more powerful than him he would become that and even transcend it. Yahweh, could make something more powerful on the other hand and not be able to transcend it.

you guys have no understanding, even of your own words.

you guys FAIL at realizing god.

He already did. duh. The devil. The devil is more powerful than god....that is, for now atleast, until when god decides to make himself more powerful again, at the end of time, and casts the devil into hell. :o

So yeah, that damned devil, making things hard on me all the time :mad: He'll get his.

But, what is god?

But, what is god?

There is a belief for this that can debunk all (imo): Ignosticism is the theological position that every other theological position (including agnosticism) assumes too much about the concept of God and many other theological concepts.

The first view is that a coherent definition of God must be presented before the question of the existence of God can be meaningfully discussed. Furthermore, if that definition cannot be falsified, the ignostic takes the theological noncognitivist position that the question of the existence of God (per that definition) is meaningless. In this case, the concept of God is not considered meaningless; the term "God" is considered meaningless.

I think the idea of God needs to be changed around... Worked around...

^You forgot to post the link to the text you took your last post from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

Nope.

Can God create weed so strong he can't smoke it?

Because if he can, then he should send some down here to the people who could.

^You forgot to post the link to the text you took your last post from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism


LOL, yes yes I did, should have stated my source thank you.

Nope.

To what I was saying?

Can God create weed so strong he can't smoke it?

Because if he can, then he should send some down here to the people who could.

LMFAO!

To what I was saying?

I don't know. lol

I didn't read the thread, I was answering the titles question.

Can God create weed so strong he can't smoke it?

Because if he can, then he should send some down here to the people who could.

Hahaha :D

Ahaha! Well, than there ya go, problem solved, nonetheless I wonder what god would name the strongest weed specimen ever?