When humans think of God they tend to anthropomorphize "it," which is something that is a problem with our egos.

I think this is what most people do wrong with their religions. Stop thinking of God as anything like a man!

This is why I prefer the path of Buddhism to the path of Christianity.

We do this because we can't understand God, so we try to put him in human terms. We start to think he's like us. Why woudl a God be so petty?

What you said = truth! I've read a more complex explanation of it before, I'll post the link if I can find.

EDIT: I suppose for once I really can say "I blame the Jews!", hehehehe. The Old Testament portrays a jealous, angry, humanlike God. Though I guess we were created in God's image..

When humans think of God they tend to anthropomorphize "it," which is something that is a problem with our egos.

I think this is what most people do wrong with their religions. Stop thinking of God as anything like a man!

This is why I prefer the path of Buddhism to the path of Christianity.

Thats why I prefer Gnosticism over Christianity... God, whenever we hear the word "god" we do not understand what it means, the only way to know the Unknowable God is to not Know Him... Paradox I know but life is filled with them.

Thats why I prefer Gnosticism over Christianity...

Because it's even more far-fetched and paradoxical?

Gnosticism is nothing more than a parasitic thought process that picks and chooses which peices of the host religion(s) it likes, and discards those it doesn't.

There are many different types of gnostic beliefs depending upon which host or host religions the gnostic belief in question came from.

In short, a total joke of a religion (even where religions are concerned).

Because it's even more far-fetched and paradoxical?

LoL, perhaps, its insane I know, but "off a few degrees" so it does not become sheer stupidity. Again, im still learning... I always will be learning.

Gnosticism is nothing more than a parasitic thought process that picks and chooses which peices of the host religion(s) it likes, and discards those it doesn't.

There are many different types of gnostic beliefs depending upon which host or host religions the gnostic belief in question came from.

In short, a total joke of a religion (even where religions are concerned).

You know I could have sworn it was you who tried to define what Gnosticism is to try and "put it in a nutshell" unfortunately you cant, people and there textbook definitions *sigh*. Let me ask you something... Can you some up life in a textbook definition trying to explain its purpose and why it exist? Can you do that without being subjective about it?

The image of gnosticism you have set-up is wrong, oh so wrong, this is not an A.D. Religion but a B.C. Religion You are told it is a heretical sect of Christianity because, before Christianity; Gnosticism never existed.

Gnosticism is no different than modern atheism in the sense that it was founded by various aspects of philosophy, science and even religion. And dont come in here and tell me that atheism is atheism because, that to would be a lie... Everything is influenced from previous part(s).

Sad that you feel that way, I guess Buddhism and taoism are to. I guess atheism is a total joke of disbelief as well. You don't even know what you are saying. Don't worry nonetheless I forgive you.

If God is subject to emotions, God isn't all powerful. Our perception is flawed.

Can you some up life in a textbook definition trying to explain its purpose and why it exist? Can you do that without being subjective about it?

I can give you a very simple and basic definition for all life known to humankind........

To survive long enough to replicate and pass on genetic material.

NOW can you provide me with a non-subjective definition of life? I doubt it. B/C you live in a fantasy world.

The image of gnosticism you have set-up is wrong, oh so wrong, this is not an A.D. Religion but a B.C. Religion You are told it is a heretical sect of Christianity because, before Christianity; Gnosticism never existed.

How is the way I have set up the image of gnosticism incorrect. I set up the gnostic meme as a parasitic meme. Meaning, ALL the various groups of gnostics have ONE thing in common...they are a parasite of another religion. Picking and chosing what they wanna keep, and discarding what they dislike, from other religions and then calling themselves a bona' fide religion.

You telling me that Gnosticism never existed before christianity does exactly what to argue against the image I have painted for you, exactly?

Gnosticism is no different than modern atheism in the sense that it was founded by various aspects of philosophy, science and even religion. And dont come in here and tell me that atheism is atheism because, that to would be a lie... Everything is influenced from previous part(s)

Gnosticism is very different than atheism.

Atheism is little more than being skeptical. A human being skeptical, predates all religion, and (unlike your religion) does not require a host meme to exist.

Cave man1 says "The sky talks to me, I call it God" Cave man2 says "I dont hear anything, I dont believe you."

BOOM world's first atheist, science not needed. Common fucking sense required.

NOW, science has made it easier to define what is known and unknown and providing us with methods for determining certian things based on empiracle evidence, but to say that atheism requires science, or anything more than healthy doses of common sense, and skepticism, is completely ignorant on your part.

Gnosticism is a parasitic meme that prays on other theistic memes. Deal with it.

BP:

I feel that you are unnecessarily painting Gnosticism in a negative light. I see no reason for this.

You also seem to indicate that having an influence on a religion makes it less valid than another religion, I can't see the reasoning behind this.

All in all, I see bias aplenty, and nothing that actually convinces me you are right about gnosticism.

JesuitApologiste:

Maybe your own bias aplenty prohibits you from being even slightly convinced.

JesuitApologiste:

Maybe your own bias aplenty prohibits you from being even slightly convinced.

*Shrugs*

Probaly.

I just see nothing to substantiate what BP has said.

When I see the evidence or argument for the opinion that Gnosticism is a total joke of a religion I'll try and allow myself to be convinced.

EDIT: I suppose for once I really can say "I blame the Jews!", hehehehe. The Old Testament portrays a jealous, angry, humanlike God. Though I guess we were created in God's image..

wow, you are so narrow minded and ignorant. The first line of the Bible says in the beginning there was the word and the word was god. However, in hebrew the word for word is the same as the word for one (or something like that.) therefore the whole idea of god being a being is primarily a christian idea.

still don't believe me? do a little research on something called kabbalah, then come back and we can have an intelligent conversation about religion. But until then stop talking shit, it makes you seem dumb.

*Shrugs*

Probaly.

I just see nothing to substantiate what BP has said.

When I see the evidence or argument for the opinion that Gnosticism is a total joke of a religion I'll try and allow myself to be convinced.


Oh the last part is my opinion based on the FACT that gnosticism is a parasitic meme that feeds on a host religious meme. Look up gnosticism and then tell me how you fail to see this.

I can give you a very simple and basic definition for all life known to humankind........
To survive long enough to replicate and pass on genetic material. NOW can you provide me with a non-subjective definition of life? I doubt it. B/C you live in a fantasy world.



How is the way I have set up the image of gnosticism incorrect. I set up the gnostic meme as a parasitic meme. Meaning, ALL the various groups of gnostics have ONE thing in common...they are a parasite of another religion. Picking and chosing what they wanna keep, and discarding what they dislike, from other religions and then calling themselves a bona' fide religion.

You telling me that Gnosticism never existed before Christianity does exactly what to argue against the image I have painted for you, exactly?



Gnosticism is very different than atheism. Atheism is little more than being skeptical. A human being skeptical, predates all religion, and (unlike your religion) does not require a host meme to exist.

Cave man1 says "The sky talks to me, I call it God" Cave man2 says "I dont hear anything, I dont believe you."

BOOM world's first atheist, science not needed. Common fucking sense required.

NOW, science has made it easier to define what is known and unknown and providing us with methods for determining certian things based on empiracle evidence, but to say that atheism requires science, or anything more than healthy doses of common sense, and skepticism, is completely ignorant on your part.

Gnosticism is a parasitic meme that prays on other theistic memes. Deal with it.


1. I live in a fantasy world... You know what the purpose of life is for all living things? The Purpose of life is to live, to live the way you want to, men are born free but the shackles of oppression are wrapped around them at an early age. To blame this oppression solely on religion is BS, science says It cant be done yet there are always those instances that defy science. So you see Mind over matter my friend, if you believe you are imprisoned and that life is only meant to be lived to reproduced than thats it for you... Others may not see it so final as you, in fact I am sure many do not appreciate how you can sum up life in a nutshell. Truth is you cant blow off everything mankind holds on to because, if you do you blow off what it means to be human.

2. You setup Gnosticism in a way that was motivated to knock it down. That's how it was built in your mind, instead of giving it a chance you sought to butcher it, so be it with you than if thats your view of gnosticism than that is it does not mean it is everyone's view.

3. You made Gnosticism sound like as if it was a Christian heresy and without it; it could not exist. Gnosticism was influenced by philosophy (Platonism), religion (Esoteric Jewish and Pagan Traditions), and an experience.

4. Atheism founded in part by Existentialism, Existentialism founded in part by Christians who had a Gnostic Mindset, The Gnostic Mindset is founded by it root belief Gnosticism, Gnosticism found in part by philosophical, religious and experiential concepts. Gee... even if your right that Gnosticism is a parasitic religion, than atheism is a parasite that had fed off the parasite, whether indirectly or directly. At least my beliefs are not responsible for the crimes done against humanity theistic or atheistic leaders together.

5. And at the same time BOOM the first theist, nothing but an experience was needed. Now if you wanted to we could talk about the movie Pulp Fiction with the scene when there in the apartment and Julius and John Travolta's character is ambushed by some guy in the bathroom yet survive the ambush despite its point blank range. Julius thought it was God and John Travolta called it luck... Ironically, in that movie Johnny Boy dies because, the experience did not make him want to change his ways.

6. Your idea of common sense and skepticism, is what makes me skeptical to what you have to say conversely, your skeptical of what I have to say. I am skeptical that life is just "Fuck and Die" so you see... Believe what you want and I will believe what I want.

BP:

I feel that you are unnecessarily painting Gnosticism in a negative light. I see no reason for this.

You also seem to indicate that having an influence on a religion makes it less valid than another religion, I can't see the reasoning behind this.

All in all, I see bias aplenty, and nothing that actually convinces me you are right about gnosticism.

His reasoning is that all religion is baloney and because, he thinks I am blowing Gnosticism up it should be knocked down.

Everything that is was influenced by what was even his absolute thought of how atheism is the absolute.

His actions are founded not on truth, not on love, not on helping me come to a common ground with him. Rather his actions are founded on making my believes look bad, a superficial 5-minute understanding of what I believe and on improving his own delusion that is reality is right over all others. And if he should quote me on anything that may sound as if I am making my beliefs look right over all the others that is not my intention rather I am trying to help him and others who read these responses understand what gnosticism is from someone who practices it.

BTW, I thank you for helping me, nonetheless this is an argument between me and him and I hope the idea of argument is not one fueled by anger and resentment to each views but, in the path of trying to understand each other more fully.

Summed that up in the way I couldn't.

I'll take my cue to bow out now ;)

We do this because we can't understand God, so we try to put him in human terms. We start to think he's like us.

You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.That is in violation of one of the 10 commandments. God does not want people to try to understand Him. That is why He made it clear that no false images of Him should be made. The Amish are the only ones that got this right.

Added: .... and the Jews

1. I live in a fantasy world... You know what the purpose of life is for all living things? The Purpose of life is to live, to live the way you want to, men are born free but the shackles of oppression are wrapped around them at an early age.

If you believe I am living in a fantasy world when I suggest that the meaning of ALL life is to pass on genetic material, please by all means, shatter my fucking fantasy.

Thought so.

I said the purpose of ALL life is clearly to pass on genetic material. You are stuck concentrating on human life, and reading way to much into it, this is a symptom of your condition.

Your concept of the meaning of life, only applies to your rather subjective view of what mankind's purpose is, and that is rather generic, if you don't mind me saying. "The purpose of life is to live the way you want to live". This is not very deep, nor meaningful, and as with most everything in religion is general to the point of being open to nearly any interpretation. Not helpful, or thoughtful.

I return to this at the end of my post...

2. You setup Gnosticism in a way that was motivated to knock it down. That's how it was built in your mind, instead of giving it a chance you sought to butcher it, so be it with you than if thats your view of gnosticism than that is it does not mean it is everyone's view.

It is gnosticism. Your view does not change what is. An argument explaining how it is not a parasititic meme, MIGHT. I would welcome an actual argument to this effect. Telling me I am incorrect b/c I have a dislike for religion, and built this one up to knock it down, does not qualify as a legitimate argument whatsoever.

3. You made Gnosticism sound like as if it was a Christian heresy and without it; it could not exist. Gnosticism was influenced by philosophy (Platonism), religion (Esoteric Jewish and Pagan Traditions), and an experience.

Just b/c you do not like the fact that gnosticism is a parasitic meme for other theistic/philosophical memes changes nothing.

You have provided no points changing this fact. Perhaps it is simplified. Perhaps there is more to gnosticism than parastiting off of a host religion. Perhaps you could tell us what more there is. Then again, perhaps you cannot.

4. Atheism founded in part by Existentialism, Existentialism founded in part by Christians who had a Gnostic Mindset, The Gnostic Mindset is founded by it root belief Gnosticism, Gnosticism found in part by philosophical, religious and experiential concepts. Gee... even if your right that Gnosticism is a parasitic religion, than atheism is a parasite that had fed off the parasite, whether indirectly or directly. At least my beliefs are not responsible for the crimes done against humanity theistic or atheistic leaders together..

First, a bit of education:

In early Ancient Greek, the adjective atheos (ἄθεος, from the privative ἀ- + θεός "god") meant "godless". The word began to indicate more-intentional, active godlessness in the 5th century BCE, acquiring definitions of "severing relations with the gods" or "denying the gods, ungodly" instead of the earlier meaning of ἀσεβής (asebēs) or "impious".

Atheistic schools are found in Hinduism, which is otherwise a very theistic religion. The thoroughly materialistic and anti-religious philosophical Cārvāka School that originated in India around 6th century BCE is probably the most explicitly atheistic school of philosophy in India.

Now, as far as your ignorant claim of existentialism partly founding the "school of thought" of atheism.....

Although they didn't use the term, the nineteenth century philosophers Søren Kierkegaard and Friedrich Nietzsche are widely regarded as the fathers of existentialism.

Well gee, even a fourth grader could explain the problem in your argument, at this point.

5. And at the same time BOOM the first theist, nothing but an experience was needed.

I will not discuss a fictional movie with you. I think I am discussing your fiction enough at this point.

You are incorrect in your assumption that nothing but an experience was needed. The first theist required soemthing a bit more, and something we still have aplenty to this day: Lack of understanding.

Why does the wind blow?
Wind God
Why do volcanoes, plagues and floods occur?
Angry God
What are the stars?
God's home

No experience required. Just misunderstanding or a lack of understanding coupled with a need to feel safe and an overactive imagination. No experience needed.

I am skeptical that life is just "Fuck and Die" so you see... Believe what you want and I will believe what I want.

I know fuck and die, is not a comforting thought, but that alone does not change what obviously is. You could be right, there could be a whole imaginary land our ghosts go when we die. There could be an invible man in the clouds who loves us.

Unfortunately, there is Z E R O evidence for any of this...and remember YOUR comfort changes that NOT. What we DO have evidence for is the cold, hard FACT of "fucking and dying".

IHis actions are founded not on truth, not on love, not on helping me come to a common ground with him. Rather his actions are founded on making my believes look bad, a superficial 5-minute understanding of what I believe and on improving his own delusion that is reality is right over all others. And if he should quote me on anything that may sound as if I am making my beliefs look right over all the others that is not my intention rather I am trying to help him and others who read these responses understand what gnosticism is from someone who practices it.

I do not need to improve my understanding of reality, or truth, by knocking down your beliefs. In fact, nobody ever need disprove any assertion that lacks any evidence, such as yours, whatsoever.

Please tell me the truth found in your belief.

Okay well:

You stated that Gnosticism is a parasitic ideology and because of that you have a poor understanding of Gnosticism, Parasites, and Ideologies.

Parasites tend to diminish or kill their 'hosts'. Gnosticism does neither, nor can it be said to have a 'host'. If we're going to draw comparisons to a living creature, it's more like a hunter-gatherer: It finds what will nourish it, and takes that. And I'm not sure Gnosticism fits as an Ideology. Given this definition: "An ideology is an organized collection of ideas. The word ideology was coined by Count Antoine Destutt de Tracy in the late 18th century to define a "science of ideas." An ideology can be thought of as a comprehensive vision, as a way of looking at things (compare Weltanschauung), as in common sense (see Ideology in everyday society below) and several philosophical tendencies (see Political ideologies), or a set of ideas proposed by the dominant class of a society to all members of this society. The main purpose behind an ideology is to offer change in society through a normative thought process. Ideologies are systems of abstract thought (as opposed to mere ideation) applied to public matters and thus make this concept central to politics. Implicitly every political tendency entails an ideology whether or not it is propounded as an explicit system of thought."

Let me also enlighten you a bit more (Pun intended with enlightened... ;) ): You'd have a hard time arguing for organized or collection for Gnosticism. It's more a collection of tendencies, into which certain ideas fit better than others. Which is why we have so many arguments about the boundaries, the limits, what should be included, what should not. -- That is why gnosticism is tough to attack, for what are you really attacking, except the human mind. It is too much up to the individual, it isn't organized really, and "it" should remain so. <--- Attacking the human mind, in all its logic hey wait are you attacking yourself then? :-\

You Know in the grand scheme of things, you attacked first by claiming what I believe is a parasite and I should have not done what I had done by defend my position so arrogantly. Both of us had the opportunity somewhere along this line to stop the quarreling but no you did not so I am.

You are the kind of atheist that are the stereotypical Christians (you hate) who believe in one less god. So good luck and Good bye with this attack on Gnosticism.

Read This Now That You Read Everything else:
http://www.totse.com/community/showpost.php?p=9717422&postcount=146

Sorry for the Duble post but I cant edited my previos post... so just read this one as well BP: http://www.totse.com/community/showpost.php?p=9719344&postcount=147

When humans think of God they tend to anthropomorphize "it," which is something that is a problem with our egos.

I think this is what most people do wrong with their religions. Stop thinking of God as anything like a man!


I agree, as would Stephen Gaskin, pretty much all of the New Age writers (Neale Donald Walsch, Deepak Chopra, et al) as well as a shitload of Sufi Muslims, and pretty much all the mystics, mages, shamans and werird holy men who ever lived, except I wouldn't say "wrong"--maybe "misled."