The Vatican has just announced an updated list (http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1308679,00.html) of mortal sins. Never content to just stick to what Jesus told them, the Catholic Church is making yet another ill conceived attempt to increase its waning relevance in these apathetic times.

Environmental damage is now on the list of mortal sins, so presumably non use of energy-saver bulbs, eating foods which you know give you wind, and not recycling your trash are now activities which could land you in hot spiritual water. And the list wouldn't be complete without a good dash of Christian hypocrasy; the Vatican has put "excessive wealth" on the list. What does the Bible say about eyes and planks of wood?

I often wonder have much longer the church can continue to rot, before the whole creaking edifice finally comes crashing down. As much as this would please me, the bitter irony is that I'm afraid of what may replace it.

Do any Catholics here feel the same?

Suddenly I feel like singing "Vatican Rag."

Here's the lyrics:



First you get down on your knees,
Fiddle with your rosaries,
Bow your head with great respect,
And genuflect, genuflect, genuflect!

Do whatever steps you want, if
You have cleared them with the pontiff.
Everybody say his own
Kyrie eleison,
Doin the vatican rag.

Get in line in that processional,
Step into that small confessional,
There, the guy whos got religionll
Tell you if your sins original.
If it is, try playin it safer,
Drink the wine and chew the wafer,
Two, four, six, eight,
Time to transubstantiate!

So get down upon your knees,
Fiddle with your rosaries,
Bow your head with great respect,
And genuflect, genuflect, genuflect!

Make a cross on your abdomen,
When in rome do like a roman,
Ave maria,
Gee its good to see ya,
Gettin ecstatic an
Sorta dramatic an
Doin the vatican rag!

Excessive wealth?

Would that be like hoarding priceless historical artifacts inside of a monumental gold trimmed structure? Or the billions the catholic industry rakes in?

Don't be silly! It's not hoarding when you're saving it to defend the thousands of pedophile priests you employ across the world.

Don't be silly! It's not hoarding when you're saving it to defend the thousands of pedophile priests you employ across the world.

Especially with these kinda numerals:

Nearly 14,000 molestation claims have been filed against Catholic clergy since 1950, according to tallies released by the bishops' conference. Abuse-related costs have reached at least $2.3 billion in the same period.

Last year, total abuse-related costs, including settlements, legal fees, therapy for victims and support for offenders, surpassed $615 million for dioceses and religious orders.

Several dioceses reached massive agreements with victims in the past 12 months. The Archdiocese of Los Angeles had the biggest by far, pledging $660 million to about 500 people. But many of those settlements have yet to be fully paid. Insurance covers some of the cost.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23521616/

Can members of NAMBLA also get insurance just in case they get busted doing something illegal? I'm sure they could use that kind of monetary protection also.

:o

Can members of NAMBLA also get insurance just in case they get busted doing something illegal? I'm sure they could use that kind of monetary protection also.

:o

Nice observations. Catholics make the absurdity of religion way to obvious, yet there are still plenty of Catholics. That is one tough meme.

Besides, why are they paying these people? Can't they just say that child rape is a part of God's plan, and who are we to question God, his ways, his church or his servants?

Thankfully, not anymore.

To quote some early Christian (for all you Anti-Christians out there this is not modern day Christianity rather it is the more simpler and kinder Pre-Nicenean days of Christianity) text: "Rather, we should be ashamed. We should cloth ourselves with the perfect human, acquire it for ourselves as he commanded us, and announce the good news, not laying down any other rule or law that differs from what the savior said." Yet, the pope claims to be the way to Christ and God...

Again, this is for those with spiritual interests... If your not interested this is all just a pile of BS anyway...

"When fornicating with the alter-boys, do not weareth a condom (sheath of Satan) for it unleasheth the wrath of the almighty."

The Catholic Church needs to zip it really. I wish I could say they're irrelevant and their outdated, bigoted hypocrisy should be ignored... but it's pretty obvious it affects millions around the world.

I love the "excessive wealth" bit. Having actually been to the Vatican, I think that whilst it's amazing architecturally and historically, it's perhaps one of the most disgusting places i've ever been....... oodles of money and grandeur all laid out for the faithful/tourists, nice lil' "we're low on funds" signs and "cover thyself up, cock-temptress" signs around the place.....

Shit, they must spend squillions on administering and looking after the place (gold leaf doesn't come cheap!), paying all the staff, buying the stupid clown costumes for the Swiss Guard dudes :D all whilst bemoaning greed and gluttony. I never saw an emaciated priest or cardinal around or anything, but I sure saw some starving fucking gypsy women lounging around outside..... relying on tourist money, not that of God's representative on earth.

I bet all the food that's left over gets chucked and not given to the poor. S'more hot-air than a Chinese power plant being run on gas-bloated cows, to be honest....

^^ Their hypocrisy in labeling 'excessive wealth' was the first thing that hit me too when reading the new list. Even before any thoughts of fondled alter boys entered my head.

They should have done as Tom Lehrer suggested and just replace the liturgical music with something a bit more popular. Just look at gospel music and the attention that gets.

But I think the whole idea would make the ol' Pope keel over in shock.

The Power Players in the Catholic Church Knows not better... They whine and whine... So I am not worried. I listen to Christ when it comes to spiritual matters and no one else.

What an enormous cluster-fuck this story is turning out to be. I can't find the original interview anywhere - the paper it appeared costs €1 and the pdf version from the vatican website only opens one page on my system

How can the BBC, the London Times and Sky News be taken seriously as representing the catholic faith? They are staunchly protestant anti-roman institutions if any ever existed.

Some points about sin:
The seven deadly sins aren't catholic mortal sins. These "sins" are - Luxuria (extravagance, later lust), Gula (gluttony), Avaritia (greed), Acedia (sloth), Ira (wrath), Invidia (envy), and Superbia (pride) {wikipedia}
They are intended as a guide to good living.

Sin is divided into Mortal and Venal sin. Venal sin doesn't matter, but mortal sin needs to be confessed - if one dies while in a state of mortal sin one's body will get flushed straight to hell. Allow me to digress for a moment, and comment that catholicism used to preach that when you died you would stay dead until judgement day, when the souls of the dead would be resurrected and given glorified bodies with the following superpowers:

Impassibility (immortal / painless) – immunity from death and pain
Subtility (permeability) – freedom from restraint by matter
Agility – obedience to spirit with relation to movement and space (the ability to move through space and time with the speed of thought)
Clarity – resplendent beauty of the soul manifested in the body (as when Jesus was transfigured on Mount Tabor)

-St. Aquinas - Summa Theologica (stolen from wikipedia)
I think we can all agree that the doctrine of the resurrection of the dead and Jesus coming to smite the wicked and rule in perfect justice is officially awesome, and better than the idea of instant heaven and hell. :D

In order for a sin to be mortal I think it needs to be mentioned by the church and the committer needs to be aware of it's consequences. I think you need something like the encyclical Veritatis Splendor by John Paul II or Humanae Vitae by Paul VI(which made birth control a mortal sin). You need more than a link to a protestant rag about something some hippy Archbishop supposedly said during an interview with an Italian paper before you go reassessing sin and how you live your life.

If God created the world and gave stewardship to man then we have a right to destroy the world and experiment with kinky genetics. It definitely isn't that bad. The middle ages catholic church hated the idea of social sin - it was much more important to love God than to love your fellow man - something a cursory reading of the bible would very much support.

What an enormous cluster-fuck this story is turning out to be. I can't find the original interview anywhere - the paper it appeared costs €1 and the pdf version from the vatican website only opens one page on my system

How can the BBC, the London Times and Sky News be taken seriously as representing the catholic faith? They are staunchly protestant anti-roman institutions if any ever existed.

I’ll ignore the fact that you’ve offered nothing to support that claim aside from a sweeping accusation of bias. However, here’s the story from a Catholic perspective: (http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=57130)

"An ordinary reader, basing his opinion only on the inane Telegraph coverage, might conclude that a "sin," in the Catholic understanding, is nothing more than a violation of rules set down by a group of men in Rome. If these rules are entirely arbitrary, then Vatican officials can change them at will; some sins will cease to exist and other "new sins" will replace them. But that notion of sin is ludicrous.

Sin is an objective wrong: a violation of God's law. What is sinful today will be sinful tomorrow, and a deadly sin will remain deadly, whether or not Telegraph editors recognize the moral danger."

Pure semantics.

Given that the Bible mentions nothing about genetic manipulation or environmental damage, in practical terms what is this other than "nothing more than a violation of rules set down by a group of men in Rome"? And AFAIK the Vatican has offered no denial of these 'sins', in spite of the media storm. No refutation of the claim that these are indeed new sins with which to beat the devote over their heads with.

Or maybe they're arguing from this angle because admitting that this is just a cynical exercise in shoring up the Church's waning control of people's lives, and subsequent slump in annual profits, would be bad PR.

Some points about sin:
The seven deadly sins aren't catholic mortal sins. These "sins" are - Luxuria (extravagance, later lust), Gula (gluttony), Avaritia (greed), Acedia (sloth), Ira (wrath), Invidia (envy), and Superbia (pride) {wikipedia}
They are intended as a guide to good living.

In order for a sin to be mortal I think it needs to be mentioned by the church and the committer needs to be aware of it's consequences. I think you need something like the encyclical Veritatis Splendor by John Paul II or Humanae Vitae by Paul VI(which made birth control a mortal sin). You need more than a link to a protestant rag about something some hippy Archbishop supposedly said during an interview with an Italian paper before you go reassessing sin and how you live your life.

My point, which you have obviously missed, is that the Catholic Church essentially makes it up as it goes along, and has been doing so for centuries. Archbishop Girotti is simply following in the footsteps of that very long tradition.

You need more than a link to a protestant rag about something some hippy Archbishop supposedly said during an interview with an Italian paper before you go reassessing sin and how you live your life.

Upon what you do base that remark? First you lambast the press for using misleading and unsubstantiated reporting, to then go and make a baseless defamatory remark about the source of the story.

Hypocrite, or just standard Catholic?

If God created the world and gave stewardship to man then we have a right to destroy the world and experiment with kinky genetics. It definitely isn't that bad. The middle ages catholic church hated the idea of social sin - it was much more important to love God than to love your fellow man - something a cursory reading of the bible would very much support.

The last time I checked sodomy is a mortal sin, but according to you, blowing the world up and perverting the course of nature with genetics is acceptable. But whatever you do, don’t take it up the pooper! :rolleyes:

The bottom line is the Catholic Church is a giant bag of shit held together by a contradictory and nonsensical patchwork of ad hoc teachings. These latest offerings just add a few more stitches to the on going story.

Or maybe they're arguing from this angle because admitting that this is just a cynical exercise in shoring up the Church's waning control of people's lives, and subsequent slump in annual profits, would be bad PR.

The CC has most of it's holdings in things like real estate, and with the collapse of the recent property bubble it needs other ways to shore up it's portfolio. :D

My point, which you have obviously missed, is that the Catholic Church essentially makes it up as it goes along, and has been doing so for centuries. Archbishop Girotti is simply following in the footsteps of that very long tradition.


Of course the church makes it up as it goes along. As the world changes the church's interaction with people changes. Even god changed his mind all the time. Do a google search for "god changes mind".

Upon what you do base that remark? First you lambast the press for using misleading and unsubstantiated reporting, to then go and make a baseless defamatory remark about the source of the story.


The source of the story is the vatican newspaper. I never said anything about them, except that they are crap. Also this Archbishop so is a hippy bastard.


Hypocrite?


I do my best.

The last time I checked sodomy is a mortal sin, but according to you, blowing the world up and perverting the course of nature with genetics is acceptable. But whatever you do, don’t take it up the pooper! :rolleyes:

Private sin like butt-secks is a sin because it's a sin against God. It's way worser to sin against god than against his creatures. Sodomy is mentioned lots of times in the bible, for instance in Genesis and Leviticus as being a huge naughty no-no and something god will smite you for. Besides, you lose sight of the difference between mortal and venal sin. Sodomy should be a mortal sin because it's funny to make people confess that sort of thing to a priest.

The bottom line is the Catholic Church is a giant bag of shit held together by a contradictory and nonsensical patchwork of ad hoc teachings.


You describe pretty much every religion here. What did the CC do to you anyway when you were a kid that you hate them so much?

^The amount of harmful mind control perpetrated on young people--especially by neurotic and sexually-repressed nuns (oops--MAJOR tautology there) can scarcely be imagined by someone who didn't experience it. Over the years, I have encountered many many members of 12-step groups who describe themselves as "recovering Catholics."

Sin = In Greek "Hamatria" = "Missing The Mark" => Suggested falling short, try again... The concept is more forgiving in its greek language, than when said in the english bibles.

As if the Catholic Church wasn't hypocritical enough...

Especially the "violation of the fundamental rights of human nature" and excessive wealth ones. If every catholic church burned down, the world would be a better place.

There are SOME Catholic saints I revere but Some I dont, there a socio-political powerhouse and anything that holds power has material wealth.

Speasking of saints, ever wonder how many there are? Would you believe, something in the neighborhood of 20,000? Yep.

Many of these were canonized/beatified on the flimsiest of pretexts, and many more were so honored (when the Borgias were running the CC) for political reasons.

Speasking of saints, ever wonder how many there are? Would you believe, something in the neighborhood of 20,000? Yep.

Many of these were canonized/beatified on the flimsiest of pretexts, and many more were so honored (when the Borgias were running the CC) for political reasons.

Indeed I can agree with that, some where given the title Saint in even Military issues, St. Dominic was his name and he was there during the massacres of the Cathars. A real Saint would have end such persecution. There are I have respect for: St. Francis of Assisi, St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, St. Hildegard of Bingen and St. Joan of Arc. Im talking about the Saints not the Disciplies who were latter had the word "St." in front of there names, strictly non-biblical peoples.