You hear people say things like "if god really exists how can he let bad things like torture and rape happen?"
or "If an all loving god exists why would he allow a 3 month old baby be painfully raped up the ass by an old man."

It's sooo easy to be won over by this kind of argument since it uses weak emotions and negative beliefs of people to win them over, but here is a scenario where it isn't a "bad" thing.

What's to say a 3 month old baby being raped sees the experience as bad?
When you think about it all pain is, is an intense feeling. It's energy vibrating at a more intense level than we are used to. Would a 3 month old baby experience an intense vibrating of energy as bad? It's body would react in a way that we "presume" it doesn't like, but how can we know how it really feels if we haven't experienced that experience ourself. Maybe it's physical reactions deceive us. Maybe we make presumptions about what its physical reactions are saying due to our own fearful beliefs.

It comes down to our beliefs as to whether or not something is bad or good.

My understanding is that "torture" isn't a negative experience. It's only fear that fools us into thinking it's negative. Such as fear that the pain we experience signifies the end of our body. But if a someone perceiving the world from a spiritual perspective believes that we are not our body, why would the destruction of our body be perceived as bad. It wouldn't matter that a body is being destroyed because if it is destroyed the spirit would move along. Therefore there is no fear of what would happen to the body. Pain then wouldn't be a bad experience, just an intense, unfamiliar one.

It all comes down to definitions of bad. What we assign "bad" to and what we assign "good" to. Or what we simply accept without judgment.

It all comes down to definitions of bad. What we assign "bad" to and what we assign "good" to. Or what we simply accept without judgment.

How can a person label God good? Anyone who condones baby rape gets a bad star next to his/her name in my book.

If anything, I think a complete absentee (like God) on human affairs would be considered nuetral.

Couple this with the fact that God cannot be observed or communicated with in any way, and you have the makings of the greatest lie mankind has ever known.

Even if there is a God, and we cannot observe or communicate with him, and he takes no part in human affairs, WHY WORRY ABOUT IT? Why give a shit about this God?

God is the ultimate dead beat dad.

X = {(+) + (-)}

Things just are. We label some as positive and some as negative. They balance out.

@BP, don't worry about it. Don't care. You don't have to.

You hear people say things like "if god really exists how can he let bad things like torture and rape happen?"
or "If an all loving god exists why would he allow a 3 month old baby be painfully raped up the ass by an old man."

It's sooo easy to be won over by this kind of argument since it uses weak emotions and negative beliefs of people to win them over, but here is a scenario where it isn't a "bad" thing.

What's to say a 3 month old baby being raped sees the experience as bad?
When you think about it all pain is, is an intense feeling. It's energy vibrating at a more intense level than we are used to. Would a 3 month old baby experience an intense vibrating of energy as bad? It's body would react in a way that we "presume" it doesn't like, but how can we know how it really feels if we haven't experienced that experience ourself. Maybe it's physical reactions deceive us. Maybe we make presumptions about what its physical reactions are saying due to our own fearful beliefs.

It comes down to our beliefs as to whether or not something is bad or good.

My understanding is that "torture" isn't a negative experience. It's only fear that fools us into thinking it's negative. Such as fear that the pain we experience signifies the end of our body. But if a someone perceiving the world from a spiritual perspective believes that we are not our body, why would the destruction of our body be perceived as bad. It wouldn't matter that a body is being destroyed because if it is destroyed the spirit would move along. Therefore there is no fear of what would happen to the body. Pain then wouldn't be a bad experience, just an intense, unfamiliar one.

It all comes down to definitions of bad. What we assign "bad" to and what we assign "good" to. Or what we simply accept without judgment.

"God's" view aside -

Beany, let's just hope this argument never gets inserted into a DA's argument to protect a child-fucker from the years of prison he would deserve for abusing a 3-month old baby - and let's hope against all hope that a jury would use common sense over esoteric thought to make their decision about what to do with said monster.

1. Your argument rests on a definition of "pain" that you've essentially pulled our of your ass.

2. Are you suggesting there is absolutely nothing that can be considered bad in existence? If you are, I'd like for you to prove it. Until then, the argument still stands:

X exists. X is bad (this could mean painful, evil, or what have you). God has the power to stop X. Why doesn't God stop X?

3. Even if we accept your definition, and even if we accept the notion that there truly isn't anything that is actually "bad" a similar argument emerges:

X exists. We think X is bad. God has the power to stop X or make us not think X is bad. Why doesn't God stop X or make us not think X is bad?

Really the argument still stands. This isn't a refutation of it, it's you just concentrating on some things and trying to argue that those things might not be bad... ignoring that there is an endless list of other things remaining, and that even if they weren't truly bad our needless perception of them as bad still exists.

I remember reading an article once you all might of heard of what it discussed, in the article there was a proposal:

1) God is Good
2) God is Powerful
3) Bad Things Happen

Thus an all-powerful and all-knowing God could let terrible things, of the nature of bad things, happen, but then He could not be good. On the other hand, a good God might have to let such horrors take place, but then He could not be all-powerful or all-knowing. In addition, a God who would visit such and similar disasters on His children would be not only not good, but a veritable fiend, the prototype of all monstrously abusive parents. That great figure of our culture, Harold Bloom, expressed this well:

"If you can accept a God who coexists with death-camps, schizophrenia, and AIDS, yet remains all-powerful and somehow benign, then you have faith, and you have accepted the Covenant with Yahweh. . .If you know yourself as having an affinity with the alien, or stranger God, cut off from this world, then you are a Gnostic." (Omens of Millennium, p 252)

The Gnostic world view declares (using Bloom's words) that the Godhead envisioned is indeed alien, a stranger by virtue of the fact that the world and the inhabitants of the world have become alienated from their Source, Who is God. This Source is benevolent and perfect in a spiritual sense, but owing to alienation does not exercise direct control over the world, wherein lesser spiritual beings and deities hold dominion. Thus the evils and catastrophic events in the world are in no way the result of the intentions of the true and good God. Punitive and malign intentions may at times manifest in cosmic and terrestrial events, but these are the products of the lesser deities involved with creation and its operations.

Again, for those who believe in the metaphysical this can serve possibly as an explanation, for those who don't this can just be another pile of BS over the already stinking mass you call spirituality.

I decided to throw these ideas into the mix, but I've no interest in discussing them with any of you.

Take from it what you will, but understand they are just ideas I had whilst pondering claims that there is no good or bad. These are ideas of how these claims could be so using extreme examples. I'm not saying I definitely believe them or that I'm any less repulsed than anyone else when things like these happen. I just like to explore ideas and areas of thought.

I decided to throw these ideas into the mix, but I've no interest in discussing them with any of you.

Would you like me to close the thread, then? If the OP has no interest in discussing anything ...

:confused:

"Hee--re I come, to save the thread!" (Does lame Mighty Mouse voice)

Seriously--on the original question, first of all, we have free will. God as I understand him/her/it/them/whatever does not intervene or interfere--in my book, the traditional prayers of petition and intercession are kinda wastes of time, the only appropriate prayer being one of thanks.

That said, it is important to realize--and be empowered by--the fact the we create our own reality. However, as a whole--being that at the Highest level, we are All One--we create a concensual reality. For instance, war exists because we as a group choose that it be so--ditto poverty, hunger, rape and a host of other societal ills. And we tend to make those choices based on a fallacy--the illusion that we are separate.

When we start acting as though we are all one (in other words, simply practice the Golden Rule--do unto others as we would have it done unto us),the world will be healed.

When we start acting as though we are all one (in other words, simply practice the Golden Rule--do unto others as we would have it done unto us),the world will be healed.

QFMFT

When we start acting as though we are all one (in other words, simply practice the Golden Rule--do unto others as we would have it done unto us),the world will be healed.

I have often wondered about the golden rule. Let's say you have a masochist who really loves being humiliated, pissed on, and likes having his balls twisted.

If he adheres to the golden rule.........shouldn't he do onto others as he would have done to him. Shouldn't he piss on strangers and expect it in return? Twist the balls of your waiter at a resteraunt and wait patiently for him to return the favor?

If someone steals from me, should I assume that he adheres to the rule as well, and simply wishes for me to steal from him?

Never going to happen. We cannot act like we are all one, b/c we are NOT all one. I would not want to live in a world where I am part of a hive mind, and that is the ONLY way the golden rule can work; if EVERY single person practices it.

Never going to happen, without some type of super mind control device/implant/brainwashing.

I have often wondered about the golden rule. Let's say you have a masochist who really loves being humiliated, pissed on, and likes having his balls twisted.

What, is he to stupid to understand other people aren't masochists?

Never going to happen, without some type of super mind control device/implant/brainwashing.

Or at least respect and compassion.

What, is he to stupid to understand other people aren't masochists?

If all he practices is the golden rule, then it is not about stupidity. It is about properly practicing the rule.

Fuck it, let's say he is stupid. Let's say he is retarded. Do retards not get to practice the rule with everyone else? How can we reach then reach a utopian world where everyone practices the golden rule, unless we get rid of the stupid, feeble and retarded?

Wow. There will never be a utopia, and whats more, I freely admit I do not want one. I do not want a perfect world with perfect skies and gum drop smiles. That sounds boring to me.

An imperfect world is infinitely more interesting than a utopia.

If all he practices is the golden rule, then it is not about stupidity. It is about properly practicing the rule.

Then it really is about stupidity if he adheres to that literal interpretation of the words and completely misses the context, or the several other ways it has been said.

Fuck it, let's say he is stupid. Let's say he is retarded. Do retards not get to practice the rule with everyone else? How can we reach then reach a utopian world where everyone practices the golden rule, unless we get rid of the stupid, feeble and retarded?

Do retards go around beating people up and stealing their lunch money?

Wow. There will never be a utopia, and whats more, I freely admit I do not want one. I do not want a perfect world with perfect skies and gum drop smiles. That sounds boring to me.

An imperfect world is infinitely more interesting than a utopia.

So be it. And so the world is the way it is.

An imperfect world is infinitely more interesting than a utopia.

I assume you have no personal experience with war, hunger, poverty, or rape.

I do. Trust me on this--there are far more accurate words than "interesting"--unless you happen to be George Carlin.

OP is trying to justify his baby raping fetish