Ok here is my view:

human conciousness and thought is based on pattern recognition, and the only way to really understand the meaning of things is to have an understanding of their opposite.

for example: we understand the concept "white", because we know what black is. If "black" did not exist, then the idea of "white" would be meaningless. This is the same for the ethical concepts of "good" and "bad" (or "evil").

You would probably agree that it seems a fairly common trend amongst humans to always want 'more' of something, and for someone to be truly content is rare (or for cynics like myself, impossible).

When we define "heaven" as the human concept of 'perfection', then we are left with a concept, or entity, that is 100% good and 0%bad, therefore nullifying the concept of good, since there is no contrast.

So to conclude, i would say that the only way for 'heaven' to exist is for it to exist in the same place as 'hell'.
This synthesis of the two is where we all live now.

thoughts?

its kinda juvinile of me (pardon spelling, its late) but my heaven would include things that would send me to hell. :) if you know what i mean.but am i understanding what your saying, if theres hell theres heaven because hell is 100% bad and so there must be a 100% good?if so, and that because theres 100% good and 100%bad than the middle, 50-50 would be us, on earth.
yea that would be true, and im sure its a common thought, but what are you trying to say "logically exist" ???
i mean sure it makes sense that they "could" exist but that based on black and whites
but as for do they exist? thats tricky, lol but i think thats where this threads going to end up going so il kick start it. it doesnt have to exist, because we dont know if theres 100% evil and 100%good because any valid candidate has some good, or bad kinda like yin-yang (as of what i know of , theres no 100percent either) so there doesnt have to be(cant be) a heaven (100%good) and hell (100%bad) and wouldnt that just mean (logically) that earth, our home (50-50) is all there is, and if we make it more than 50% good or bad we create our own hell or heaven?

thoughts?

If you guys make a heaven and hell based on good and evil, then i say there is neither.

Good and evil all depends on ones point of view.


God is bs.

I don't get why some people actually belive in him, her, it, or whatever.

man i was in some other thread and some pretty cool shit was said, things like god (not being the human figure we imagine, and not being some holy person were supposed to love and worship) like god is more of the original energies of the universe, so in that case god is not bullshit
but religion on the other hand, could be some serious bullshit
lol depends though
religion is just a electric collar to hold the people of the world in their yards, away from fucking eachother into comas and killing eachother, you know 100% good ;)
heaven and hell? i think we can decide if we want to live in one or the other, when we die? well that just might be the best type of happiness....kinda emo.... but eh makes sense

Almost nothing in Christianity holds to logic........least of all God.

human conciousness and thought is based on pattern recognition, and the only way to really understand the meaning of things is to have an understanding of their opposite.

What's the opposite of a dinosaur?

Anything that does not break the axioms of whatever system of logic one is referring to can logically exist. I can't think of any axioms of any major systems of logic that are broken by the notion of a place one's consciousness goes when one dies.

What's the opposite of a dinosaur?

A not dinosaur?

Seriously, how can one know what good is without defining evil?

That's not how the burden of proof works. If someone asserts that X requires Y, and then asks how X can possibly exist without Y, they first need to prove that X really does require Y.

Why does knowledge of good require a definition of evil?

Has the complete opposite of a dinosaur ever existed? No. So how do we know anything about dinosaurs?

One thing that always ticked me off about heaven is that you lose all your memories when you go there, else how can you be happy all the time.

I couldn't be happy if I loved one ended up in hell, or perhaps I would feel remorse about leaving friends on Earth. The only way to true happiness is true ignorance.

Thus, heaven = no memories

And that doesn't sound very appealing to me.

A not dinosaur?:) :) :) :)


if X requires Y and you want to prove that X really exists without Y, you need to prove X really does need Y....
so into something on topic
if "evil" requires "good" and you want to prove that "evil" really exists without "good", you need to prove "evil" really does need "good" :)
well, if theres pure good, than theres pure evil because theres an opposite, thats a given. does there have to be an opposite to everything? probibly, but it just a bit more complicated, maybe the opposite to dinosaurs are strawberry sno-balls, theres so many variables. lol ok maybe not but still, see my point?

If you guys make a heaven and hell based on good and evil, then i say there is neither.

Good and evil all depends on ones point of view.

Although I would not say neither, I would say heaven and hell is a subjective experience. Hell, is your worst fears and things YOU dont want. Heaven is your aspirations realized and everything YOU wanted.

JC said "My Kingdom of not of this World." So it goes beyond our regular modes of understanding what heaven and hell is. Personally, I see the mundane earthly existence to be hell (after all hell is a separation of God), are we not all seperated from God than?

Now, there is a saying:

"A murder can make heaven outta hell; A saint can make hell outta heaven."

So what your idea of suffering, violence, wrongness is what your idea of hell is as well. What your idea of content, rightness is YOUR idea of heaven than. Yet, deep down we all want the same things we all want something that makes us feel loved and gives us peace of mind.

That's not how the burden of proof works. If someone asserts that X requires Y, and then asks how X can possibly exist without Y, they first need to prove that X really does require Y.

Why does knowledge of good require a definition of evil?

Has the complete opposite of a dinosaur ever existed? No. So how do we know anything about dinosaurs?


I guess it is more of a philosophical kind of question.

If you lived your whole life in a cave that was completely pitch black......how could I even begin to describe to you, light? How could you even imagine it?

The opposite of a dinosaur is a pointless point. I am not saying everything requires a polar opposite. I am saying that WHEN a person defines something as good they inadvertantly attribute other things as bad or evil, or at the very least worse.

Jesus Christ. It's like a congregation of acolytes.

Jesus Christ. It's like a congregation of acolytes.

lol, I was gonna say that.

If you guys make a heaven and hell based on good and evil, then i say there is neither.

Good and evil all depends on ones point of view.

True. At the Highest Level of reality, there is no such thing as good and evil--these are labels--and bloody aerbitrary ones at that--we place on things to denote whether we approve or do not approve of them. And those labels say more about the labeller than the labellee.

However, as actual locations, there are no such places as Heaven or Hell.

On the phenomenal plane we seek pleasure and the avoidance of pain. On the noumenal plane we know the absence of both - which is Bliss. - Why Lazurus Laughed by Wei Wu Wei

I have a hard time associating bliss with the complete absence of pain and pleasure. I wonder if that's what it's like for human vegetables?

:confused:

I have a hard time associating bliss with the complete absence of pain and pleasure.

You should try meditating.

Think I haven't?

Bliss wasn't the end result, but it was relaxing, nonetheless.

Bliss wasn't the end result, but it was relaxing, nonetheless.

Thats good, but maybe you never really reached the ... end result.

How can you know that bliss to be true, Obbe? The end result could very well be an illusion.

:o

How can you know that bliss to be true, Obbe? The end result could very well be an illusion.

:o

Pain and pleasure is an illusion. Silence is truth?

How can you know that bliss to be true, Obbe? The end result could very well be an illusion.

:o

It very well could be.

And, you also could have not attained it. Whatever 'it' may be.

Well, logically, based on what we know, our bodies don't have a soul in them, and they don't go to magical places. Every argument about the two places after that is null if the first one isn't true, it's like saying:

Do cars run on cheese?

(no)

What if they ran on gouda cheese?


How can you logically think about two places which logically don't exist?

(Agnostic, so maybe. but really.. there is no logic behind it)

Well, logically, based on what we know ...

No. Sorry.