What are your opinions on faith healing?



From the Foxfire Book, the chapter on faith healing, the account of witness Lester Norton:

One of the first people we interviewed was not a healer himself, but he had known two people who were, and his stories of what they did whetted our appetites.

"Old Aunt Caroline Korn could certainly take the fire out of you if you got burnt, and old Uncle Joe Teague could certainly stop blood when it'uz bleedin'. Once they'uz a logger cuttin' timber and cut his foot. He went to see Uncle Joe that evenin' and his shoe'uz just about full'a blood, and he wanted him to stop it. And he said, 'How long'll it take ya't'go home?' and he said, 'About twenty minutes'; and he said, 'All right'. Well when he got t'th' house in about twenty minutes, that blood stopped and never did bleed n'more.
"And he'uz over at Sapphire at that little hotel there, and they said t'him, they said, 'They say you can stop blood.' He said, 'Yeah.'
"'All right,' [they] said. 'We'll just let ya' try your luck on this beef.'
"He said, 'All right, but it'll ruin yer beef, man.'
"'Aw, shuck.'
"They killed it'n stuck it. It never bled a drop. Blood stayed right in th' flesh and ruined it. Couldn't eat it. He shore could stop blood. It's in th' Bible. You can get that stoppin' blood out'a th' Bible. It's in th' Old Testament somewhereabouts. I've read it, but it's been s'long."



The Foxfire Book contains several other accounts, even from supposed "faith healers" themselves. But I'm going to go to sleep, so maybe I'll type some out in later posts. They are all the accounts of ... well, mountain folk, hillbillies. They believed in the Bible, I guess, and a ritual for burn healing using a verse is included in the book that I will also type out later. But because of the culture involved, I am really interested in AngryFemmes opinion.

What about other types of faith healing? What about different religions?

Or just healing, with no religion involved? Does anyone have any experiences they would like to share?

Do you think its all ineffective crap? Do you think its all a shame created by religion?

No different than a piece of toast with the virgin mary on it.

My maternal grandmother was a traiteuse, though my only memories of her was when I was 8 years old and younger. You have to understand that the utility of faith healing among the cajun and creole cultures are borne out of tradition, and poverty. The herbs and chants and grassroots remedies were used back in the day simply because these people were too poor to see city doctors. My grandmother had a wooden leg (lost to diabetes) and got around rather well, and the only things I remember of her folk remedies was her always using wax (often NOT on the actual wound) coupled with prayers that I couldn't understand due to her broken english.

I know her religion was heavily steeped in both Catholicism and Haitian voodoo. I think that mixture was a result of the cajuns and the creoles (both whites and blacks) who lived within close proximity of each other in the poor sections of southern Louisiana. These people lived in houseboats, shacks and shotgun houses along the swamps and bayous, most were illiterate and a lot of them didn't speak english. While they were very self-sufficient and didn't rely on the modernities available to them, I have to believe that their methods to cure the sick was their only option, therefore when it was "successful", and the person healed, the magic of the spell was attributed to the turn in health. If the sickness or injury progressed, or death occurred - it was God's will or the Devil's doing. I remember her being highly superstitious, wary of cats (who had the propensity to be devils) and a big promoter of talismans to carry with you to ward off bad luck.

I was removed from that environment at a young age, and the very first foster family I lived with were Pentecostal. They lived far above poverty level and had the modern doctors and medicines, but they still practiced the Laying On Of Hands to "cure" their people with the help of God. This was used more for what they believed were mental sicknesses, and of course - anyone who strayed from the path of the Pentecostal church were mentally sick. I remember them being very prejudiced against the family I came from, probably because of the fact that we were poorer than them and the arcadian french/creole lingo was properly considered "ghetto". Their God clearly didn't approve of white kids and black kids playing together.

I believe the cajun/creole method of faith healing was more effective than the spiritual Laying On Of Hands of the Pentecostals just because they also incorporated herbs and roots and natural medicines in conjunction with their prayers, while the Pentecostals relied more on modern medicine for their physical ailments and used the Laying on of Hands to give credit to God when the medicines worked. I will say this, though - one thing that completely blew my 10-year old mind was seeing an elderly member of the family I was living with barely be able to get around on her own ... she was hunchbacked, her fingers and toes all gnarly and crippled up with rheumatoid arthritis, and couldn't walk without a walker. Put her in church, and halfway through the sermon she was singing and moving and literally dancing like a woman possessed, suddenly mobile and talking in tongues and flailing her otherwise stiff limbs about as if she were on fire.

Scary stuff, that. I have to believe that she found herself in her element among her church brethren, and that her otherwise crippled and mundane existence came to life when her enthusiasm was piqued through worship. The funny thing is, although she was old and conservative, not much to look at - she reminded me of a typical bun-in-the-hair grandmother. Yet she scared me, as a child, more than my maternal grandmother, who looked like a bonafide witch with her white, stringy hair, wooden leg, no teeth and one good eye.

I hope someone posts here about the Reike healing methods. I read an article about that a few years ago and knew someone who was looking into it to manage his diabetes.

Healing of any sort with Spirituality is not western but, nonetheless the methods work... I am not going to believe everything I hear over the issue of spirituality and healing people but somethings are true, people can heal people and themselves without pill popping; perhaps those more advanced can cure ailments and disorders but nonetheless caring on with some caution, while employing spiritual healing.

I believe faith healing is only good for curing psychosomatic conditions. That is conditions a person brings upon themselves mentally. Perhaps a faith healer can will himself to stop sneezing, or get rid of mild headaches, that is about all I contend a PLACEBO effect will do.

When it comes to things like cancer, AIDS, sepsis, gang-green, artery blockage, cystic fibrosis, tuberculosis, cholera, malaria, ebola, etc......faith healing is completely useless.

By all means pray to your god, if it makes you FEEL better, while you recieve scientific medical treatment, but try not to confuse the cure or treatment with the emotional support device.

I hope someone posts here about the Reike healing methods. I read an article about that a few years ago and knew someone who was looking into it to manage his diabetes.


Hi AngryFemme,

I am not a Reike healer...
I am trained and experienced Hawaiian Huna healer...
I would not classify Huna healing as faith healing, because my healing is not dependent on what religion someone is or weither a person has any religious beliefs at all...
When I'm healing someone, I could care less what that person believes in or doesn't believe in...

I would say ther same thing is true of a Reike healer...

When I perform a Huna healing, all I ask the person that I'm healing to do, is to be as relaxed as they can...
Discussing God or religion, etc. has nothing to do with Huna healing...

Regards,
Ancient One

I've always been curious about Hawaiian culture :)

Faith in magic and spirits doesn't seem much different than religious faith, to me.

Doesn't Huna focus on transpersonal psychology? Reike and Huna seem pretty similar, except from what I understand, Reike comes from a God.

I would not classify Huna healing as faith healing, because my healing is not dependent on what religion someone is or weither a person has any religious beliefs at all...
When I'm healing someone, I could care less what that person believes in or doesn't believe in...

I would say ther same thing is true of a Reike healer...

When I perform a Huna healing, all I ask the person that I'm healing to do, is to be as relaxed as they can...
Discussing God or religion, etc. has nothing to do with Huna healing ...

Well please feel free to share your healing experiences, however you define them.

And thanks for the long-post AF, thats the stuff I like. ;)

A Healer: Mrs. Andy Webb

"I can blow fire out. I can stop blood. I can cure th' thrash. I do all that by th'help o'th'Lord. I don't do that by myself. If I ain't got th'Lord wi'me ..."

She hesitated, so we asked her is she could teach someone. She said, "I can't blow fire or cure th'thrash or anything like that if I tell anybody. I don't know if I can teach anyone. I never did try."

There was a long silence, so we asked her how she found out she could do it. "By th'hand o'th'Lord," came the reply.

"How old were you?" we asked.

"I don't know how old I am now, an' I don't know how old I was."

A few more false starts followed. Gradually, however, sensing our genuine interest, she began to talk freely and naturally. "My son, Jim, his child's nose commenced bleedin' one night at th' supper table, and they live away down yonder in Georgia. An' he said t'his brother, 'I'm gonna take him t'Momma.'

"Well, when they come, they had him rolled up in a sheet and that blood-hit was just as bloody as could be. Y'couldn't tell whether it'uz a sheet or what. And he just come in th'door and said, 'Here, Momma. I want ya' t'stop Lewis's nose from bleedin'.'

"I said, 'All right,' and he laid him down in m'lap an it'd just squirt. Ever' time his pulse'd beat, y'know, it'd squirt. And it wasn't long though till it stopped bleedin' and it's never bled another drop.

"To do it, you don't have ta' touch the person. I can just talk th'th'Lord and it's all right. And when y'blow fire, you blow on th'burned place an' say somethin' - it's out'a th'Bible, but I can't read a word of th'Bible - not a word. And I can't write. It's just a gift from God. I just commenced at it."



Her interview goes on to thrash and more burn healing, but I don't feel like typing out the rest of it.

Later on in the chapter, after some more interviews, theres this interesting part ...



Not long after the faith healing article appeared in Foxfire, two women healers came forth who were willing to reveal their method exactly if we promised not to use their names. We agreed, and this is what they told us:

To draw fire pass your hand over the exposed burn, open and palm down, in a direction away from you and away form the patient - as if pushing the fire away from both you and the victim's body. Do this slowly three times, at the same time blowing gently on the burn. The head remains fixed over the burn, but turns so that yours breath follows your hand thus blowing the fire away from the victims body. Simultaneously, and each of the three times you do the above, repeat the secret healing verse silently.

The verse must be memorized word for word, for one mistake will invalidate the cure. The verse, as written down for us by the healer, is:

Thair came an angel
from the East bringing
frost and fire. In frost out
fire. In the name of
the father the Son and
of the Holy Goost

(hahaha, goost ...)

When I questioned her willingness to give us the supposedly secret method, her reply was, "Well, it might be of some use to you when I'm gone. I believe in th'healin' power because th'Lord has healed me. I know He has. That's the greatest thing they is, is th'healin' power of th'Savior."

Another Woman's Much-Tested Method for Stopping Blood:
The healer does not have to be present. She claims she has even stopped severe bleeding from cuts by talking over the telephone. To stop the bleeding, she simply reads, to herself silently, one time, the sixth verse of the sixteenth chapter of Ezekiel. She reads the verse for fear she will leave something out and thus invalidate the cure.

Essential to the attempt is the substitution of the victim's full name each time "you" or "thee" (depending on which version of the Bible the healer is using) occurs.

Thus if the victim were named John Doe, the verse would be read silently, to oneself, in this manner: "And when I passed John Doe and saw John Doe weltering in John Doe's blood, I said to John Doe in John Doe's blood, Live ..."

She claims that the cure works even on animals. She claims to have stopped the severe bleeding which resulted when the teat of one of her cows was sliced.

I've always been curious about Hawaiian culture :)

Faith in magic and spirits doesn't seem much different than religious faith, to me.

Doesn't Huna focus on transpersonal psychology? Reike and Huna seem pretty similar, except from what I understand, Reike comes from a God.



Hi AngryFemme,

To be honest with you, I don't know hardly anything about the subject of transpersonal psychology...

I can however tell you that personally I have never heard the term "Transpersonal Psychology" used in reference to Hawaiian Huna"...

I did type "Transpersonal Psychology into a search engine and found the following dictionary defination...

Transpersonal Psychology:
A branch of psychology or psychotherapy that recognizes altered states of consciousness and trancendent experiences as a means to understand the human mind and treat psychological disorders...

From that defination, I can definately state that Hawaiian Huna HEALING has nothing to do with healing psychological disorders...

Hawaiian Huna healing is used for healing PHYSICAL disorders, in a persons body and for relieving pain related to some physical condition...

In addition to my being a trained Huna healer, I am also a trained Huna Exorcist...

In Hawaiian Huna, certain serious mental disorders are attributed to spirit possession...

The type of mental disorders of which spirit possession is likely are those mental disorders where a person keeps hearing voices in their head trying to control them and telling them what to do, most often against the persons will...

I am not talking about actual demonic possessions, as demonic possessions only account for about 1% of all spirit possessions...
99% of all spirit possesions are caused by the spirit of a deceased person...

Part of my training as a Hawaiian Huna Priest by my Kahuna, is that my Kahuna gave me training in how to perform exorcisms, which amounts to de-possessing someone who is possessed...

Aloha,
Ancient One

Part of my training as a Hawaiian Huna Priest by my Kahuna, is that my Kahuna gave me training in how to perform exorcisms, which amounts to de-possessing someone who is possessed...

How do you know when someone is possessed? Do you charge for your services? Did your Kahuna charge you for the tutelage?

What is the main religion in Hawaii?

I'd guess it's probably all just placebo, but I don't like to rule things out.

But then, I suppose the placebo effect is pretty much the same thing as faith healing, so the above sentence may mean nothing at all.

How do you know when someone is possessed? Do you charge for your services? Did your Kahuna charge you for the tutelage?

What is the main religion in Hawaii?



Hi AngryFemme,


How do you know when someone is possessed?
Part of my training as an exorcist is to be able to determine if someone is possessed.
The majority of possessions are by the spirit of someone that person strongly loved or strongly hated, when they were alive.

Example of a love possession:
A couple is happily married for 30 years and the mans wife dies.
The husband grieves for her and misses her so much that out of love for her husband her spirit hangs around him and accidentally gets trapped in his magnetic field.
You now have 2 spirits sharing the same body, which consitutes possession, even though she did not intend to possess him.
What I would do as an exorcist, is to free her spirit from her husband's megnetic field and have her spirit taken to where she should have gone in the astral plane.


Do you charge for your services?
I do not charge any fee for healing or giving any type of guidance or for teaching, as most of the people I help are on limited incomes.
I do however accept any donation that a person wishes to give me for my services.
I will charge a reasonable fee for performing an exorcism for someone....


Did your Kahuna charge you for the tutelage?
Yes... My Kahuna did charge me reasonable fees for my tutelage, as he gave up employment and devoted his full time effort to helping others, and he had a family to support...



What is the main religion in Hawaii?
Huna is the ancient native Hawaiian and Polynesian religion... Many thousands of years old...
The Hawaiian Islands were invaded by european conquerers in the 1500's...
The European conquerers brought Christian missionaries with them, that FORCED the native Hawaiians to give up their native Huna religion and convert to Christianity...

Therefore in modern times many native Hawaiians are still Christians and no longer practice the ancient native Hawaiian religion of Huna...
Huna never died in the Hawaiian Islands, it just went underground for a few centuries after Hawaii was invaded in the 1500's...
So for about the last 60 years, Huna has experienced tremendous growth and so a number of native Hawaiians have returned to practicing the Huna religion...

Aloha,
Ancient One

How is it you are able to use magic, technology, rituals etc. (whatever you use) to not only detect a spirit, but to interact with it, and the world at large is unable to do so?

How do you know that someone is possessed? Can you see the spirit or just feel it? Ever diagnosed someone as being possessed who was simply suffering from a physical disorder? You would not be the first.

Can anyone be taught how to wield supernatural force for a fee? If so, how much?

Why doesn't our military invest research into training people to wield this force? We wouldn't require bullets with an army of soul manipulating necromancers at the front lines.

I am going to write my congressman and suggest this, hell some other country may be training their army in the arts of wizardry as we speak.

You are a charlatan and a con man, you know it, and nothing more.

How is it you are able to use magic, technology, rituals etc. (whatever you use) to not only detect a spirit, but to interact with it, and the world at large is unable to do so?

How do you know that someone is possessed? Can you see the spirit or just feel it? Ever diagnosed someone as being possessed who was simply suffering from a physical disorder? You would not be the first.

Can anyone be taught how to wield supernatural force for a fee? If so, how much?

Why doesn't our military invest research into training people to wield this force? We wouldn't require bullets with an army of soul manipulating necromancers at the front lines.

I am going to write my congressman and suggest this, hell some other country may be training their army in the arts of wizardry as we speak.

You are a charlatan and a con man, you know it, and nothing more.


The United States military had Project Stargate back around the 60's I believe, don't quote me on that. Anyway, when American citizens got wind of this, they didn't like the idea of their tax dollars being used (wasted in some opinions) on "voodoo and witchcraft". Because of this the project was supposed to be shut down.


Now reiki... its basically the same as huna healing(correct me if I'm wrong). No dependence on religion or belief. In a nutshell, its using ones own life energy to heal. It also involves "mind over matter" in the sense of whatever you deeply intend/believe will happen, will happen. I short google search will give much better information(or alternatively worse depending what the source is of course) than I can give you. I don't know much more about it.

...ilikedots.....

Now reiki... its basically the same as huna healing(correct me if I'm wrong). No dependence on religion or belief

A belief in God is required. Along with the deep pockets you'd better have if you're going to learn it.

The Karuna Reiki® Class Cost $875.00, $275.00 non-refundable deposit.

Class manual and certificate included.

"The word Reiki is made of two Japanese words - Rei which means "God's Wisdom or the Higher Power" and Ki which is "life force energy". So Reiki is actually "spiritually guided life force energy."

Here it goes on, in a seemingly contradicting fashion:

"While Reiki is spiritual in nature, it is not a religion. It has no dogma, and there is nothing you must believe in order to learn and use Reiki. In fact, Reiki is not dependent on belief at all and will work whether you believe in it or not. Because Reiki comes from God, many people find that using Reiki puts them more in touch with the experience of their religion rather than having only an intellectual concept of it."

Source (http://www.reiki.org/FAQ/WhatIsReiki.html)

It seems what I was looking at was definitely NOT reiki. But there is a form of healing like it that said absolutely no religious basis. Oh well, thank you AngryFemme for correcting me.

...ilikedots.....

H
Why doesn't our military invest research into training people to wield this force?

http://www.book-of-thoth.com/article-print-1733.html
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_psycho02.htm
http://www.pureinsight.org/pi/index.php?news=1189
http://stinet.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADB097979&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf

Consciousness may have a bigger role in the universe than you may imagine. Consciousness does effect this energy whether you deny the experiments or not.

ancient one, can you describe how you or anyone else can perform a healing.

Bullshit.

It honestly makes perfect sense once you understand (although you don't have to) that we are entirely responsible for every little detail in our lives. Yes, I know this will bring about many arguments so maybe it's best if you just took this as my opinion but investigated the matter further yourself.

If you're the one who intended the disease in the first place, then through intent you can also stop it. Human beings really are marvelous, magical creatures. We've just degenerated so much...

It honestly makes perfect sense once you understand (although you don't have to) that we are entirely responsible for every little detail in our lives. Yes, I know this will bring about many arguments so maybe it's best if you just took this as my opinion but investigated the matter further yourself.

If you're the one who intended the disease in the first place, then through intent you can also stop it. Human beings really are marvelous, magical creatures. We've just degenerated so much...

Ahem. You watched "The Secret" one too many times, didn't you?

Ahem. You watched "The Secret" one too many times, didn't you?

I've never watched the Secret. I try not to speak second hand knowledge, only truths I've come upon for myself.

There is more to the world around you than just the public knowledge, that is talked about on CNN, MSNBC, FOX, CBS, ABC, NBC, Newspapers, and Popular Magazines... Its hidden for a reason, dnt argue over its (non)existence... Find it yourself...

Consciousness does effect this energy whether you deny the experiments or not.

Hastily searching Google for links and them bombarding people with them doesn't come close so supporting that absurd notion...

Hastily searching Google for links and them bombarding people with them

He wouldn't have gotten past wikipedia.


doesn't come close so supporting that absurd notion...We all have our own opinions.

We all have our own opinions.

This isn't a matter of opinion, it's mater of verifiable fact: a bunch of links from shoddy sources don't substantiate such outrageous claims.

Instead of looking for prof from others, maybe you should prove it to yourself.

How about both? Or is it that you want a free ride?

This might be relevant: http://www.princeton.edu/~pear/

^

This might be relevant as well: http://www.csicop.org/si/2006-03/pear.html

As would the fact(s) that:

1. The "results" were pretty insignificant ("The size of the effect is about .1 percent, meaning that for every thousand electronic tosses, the random event generator is producing about one more head or tail than it should by chance alone" )

2. The results couldn't be replicated by other institutions.

3. The methodology showed signs of the results being biased.

4. PEAR closed down which should serve to show just how fruitful their attempts were.

Well, I'm convinced. Damn, it seemed so interesting.