I'm not much in to god and what not, but I have read a lot of religous books. The Quran, the new and old testament, the gnostic books, the book of mormon, a few scientology books, among others.

Granted they all have almost the same message, I like Islam the best as far as reading goes. The book of mormon is SHIT, and well scientology is hahaha.

I like the idea of a group of people with a positive message, but I can't stand people preaching, trying to convert, imposing beliefs on other cultures. If there is a god that is not what it would want. It seems to be a predomiantly western thing, preaching, and converting. Although, it started a long time ago, presently its a western notin.

Fighting and defending what you believe in is one thing, but to fight over who is right is not. If you read most all books they show a lot of war, and people fighting. Alot of them aren't religous wars either. Althought they have been twisted around to make the agressors/bad people morraly wrong for a reason or two.

god does not promise anything, he does not hand out free meals, In the end it comes down to humility. It comes down to the fact that if someone asked me to do something within my power, and I found it morally apealing I would help.

Sure, there comes a point where the person needs to help themselves, and there are people that just won't. But as aristrotle puts it, people are naturally good.

I understand that people need something to believe in because all people know are the things in front of them, the physical, and it is hard to deal with and that is fine. In a world 2000 years ago people were desolate, segregated, and poverished. They needed someone to lead, tell them what was to be done.

Now though as concious evolution has progressed people need to wake up and see that you don't need anyone to guide you as long as you are a genuinly good person.

I know people have diffrent morals on the small side of things, but on the large scale, you have the 7 deadly sins and 7 heavenly virtues.

those being

deadly
Lust (Latin, luxuria)

for the reason that sex isn't something to be taken lightly, and that it is something that belongs to you and not another person. Granted it is yours to do what you want with, and you shouldn't impose it on someone else IE rape. But you own it. It is yours.

Gluttony (Latin, gula)

Over indulgance in anything food, sex, anything is not good because it detracts from who you are as a person, and you contribute less, and it can be come an obsession which is not healthy.
Greed (Latin, avaritia)

coveting anything, or an over abundance or a feeling of need for a want is not a good thing and it can make you do things that are imoral, and wrongs against others
Sloth (Latin, acedia)

laziness, and not acomplishing what you are able to your full potential is a waste of your self as a human, not nececuarily a sin against the greatter, but a sin agaisnt you for not acomplishing what you are able.
Wrath (Latin, ira)

Anger isn't a good emotion, and getting angry with anyone for who they are, or at yourself because you fell that you messed up is wrong. Shit happens and you can deal with it. Wrath is alright, but not when taken too seriously. It is more a tool of recignation.
Envy (Latin, invidia)
You should not want what others have, for the reasons you do not have them are your own faults. You didn't work hard enough, or you feel that you need more which you do not, as long as you can survive you are alright. And you will appriciate the things you have.
Pride (Latin, superbia)

you are not greater than anyone else, and when you start to think so than you are not, because you can do something, or have talents in an area that one does not. Does not mean you are better, the man who bakes the bread is no more than the man who grows the wheat used, or the man who sells the bread, as they all need eachother.

heavinly virtues
Chastity (Latin, Castitas) (purity, opposes Lust, Latin Luxuria)
Embracing of moral wholesomeness and achieving purity of body and thought through education and betterment.
Temperance (Latin, Temperantia) (self-control, opposes Gluttony, Latin Gula) —
Practicing self-control, abstention, and moderation.
Charity (Latin, Liberalitas) (will, generosity, opposes Greed, Latin Avaritia) —
Generosity. Willingness to give. A nobility of thought or actions.
Diligence (Latin, Industria) (ethics, opposes Sloth, Latin Acedia) —
A zealous and careful nature in one's actions and work. Decisive work ethic. Budgeting one's time; monitoring one's own activities to guard against laziness.
Patience (Latin, Patientia) (peace, opposes Wrath, Latin Ira) —
Forbearance and endurance through moderation. Resolving conflicts peacefully, as opposed to resorting to violence. The ability to forgive; to show mercy to sinners.
Kindness (Latin, Humanitas) (satisfaction, opposes Envy, Latin Invidia) —
Charity, compassion, friendship, and sympathy without prejudice and for its own sake.
Humility (Latin, Humilitas) (modesty, opposes Pride, Latin Superbia) —
Modest behavior, selflessness, and the giving of respect. Giving credit where credit is due; not unfairly glorifying one's own self.


These are the basics for morality.

Not necesarily religous, but for a better humanity. These are the things you sould instill your beliefs in for they are what is shown through out history to prevail.

Believing in these is greater than any god, and appling them is the greatest. It is through these that people are good, and through these that, I am hesitant to use the word god, but It is through these that humanity shall prevail.

So far humans have demonstrated an relative inablity to use morals without attributing them to a religion.

Of course morales are good, and believing in something is good, but if religion comes as a side dish, I will send the plate back.

So far humans have demonstrated an relative inablity to use morals without attributing them to a religion.

Of course morales are good, and believing in something is good, but if religion comes as a side dish, I will send the plate back.

I like that analogy.

...anddots.....

Conversion is a western notion?

So when the CCP got all the people of China to get off of Confucianism and into Communism, that was what, the concious, individual choice of a few billion people at the same time?

If people blind themselves to an ugly thing, it doesn't make that thing any more beautiful, it just means that all the people that once might have been able to solve it can't any more.

... I know, I was only saying it seems to be a western notion becuase no one really hears about china, the crusades, shit like that.

I agree with you, but as far as religous conversion goes it seems that america is leading it.

We as humans are spiritually evolving and as we do so, we are letting go of old spiritual practices that are no longer compatible with this new mode of thought. I remember awhile back reading an article in Time magazine that was highlighting the so-called "athiest phenomenon" that is happening in our culture. I then asked myself "why are so many people being drawn to athiesm? Simple, the only God most of these people have ever known is that of the judgemental and hateful Judeo-Christian one.

I'm not much in to god and what not, but I have read a lot of religous books. The Quran, the new and old testament, the gnostic books, the book of mormon, a few scientology books, among others.

Granted they all have almost the same message, I like Islam the best as far as reading goes. The book of mormon is SHIT, and well scientology is hahaha.

I like the idea of a group of people with a positive message, but I can't stand people preaching, trying to convert, imposing beliefs on other cultures. If there is a god that is not what it would want. It seems to be a predomiantly western thing, preaching, and converting. Although, it started a long time ago, presently its a western notin.

Fighting and defending what you believe in is one thing, but to fight over who is right is not. If you read most all books they show a lot of war, and people fighting. Alot of them aren't religous wars either. Althought they have been twisted around to make the agressors/bad people morraly wrong for a reason or two.

god does not promise anything, he does not hand out free meals, In the end it comes down to humility. It comes down to the fact that if someone asked me to do something within my power, and I found it morally apealing I would help.

Sure, there comes a point where the person needs to help themselves, and there are people that just won't. But as aristrotle puts it, people are naturally good.

I understand that people need something to believe in because all people know are the things in front of them, the physical, and it is hard to deal with and that is fine. In a world 2000 years ago people were desolate, segregated, and poverished. They needed someone to lead, tell them what was to be done.

Now though as concious evolution has progressed people need to wake up and see that you don't need anyone to guide you as long as you are a genuinly good person.

I know people have diffrent morals on the small side of things, but on the large scale, you have the 7 deadly sins and 7 heavenly virtues.

These are the basics for morality.

Not necesarily religous, but for a better humanity. These are the things you sould instill your beliefs in for they are what is shown through out history to prevail.

Believing in these is greater than any god, and appling them is the greatest. It is through these that people are good, and through these that, I am hesitant to use the word god, but It is through these that humanity shall prevail.

So have I...

Interesting, Mormon and scientoogy seem to fall closer to the um... BS side of the pole.

You and me both, I said it many times, people are to damn busy trying to impose there utopias upon others but forget to impose it on themselves as well.

Unfortunetly like any belief we have about the world, the line gets blurred between fighting for what you believe in and fighting for what you think is right as opposed to everyone else, the former is courage the latter is fanaticism.

Be careful with morals, if you feel obligated to uphold those morals than they are already lost, if you are compassionate and passionate about upholding and following through with a moral than welcome aboard, do not do what you hate and do not deceive yourself and others, do it because, you want to.

I can agree with that, there is a saying that "God helps those who helps themselves." <--- This should not mean egotistical and selfish matters however.

We still need that type of leadership in the sheeple, those who follow but dont question, those who quiver and are scared, those who seek freedom but desire security but dont know that if we give up our freedom than we will lose our own security, is this starting to sound familiar?

Good people, bad people what separates them is not there thoughts of the world around them but how they act upon there thoughts of the world around them. Good people are self-sufficent but that is becoming hard to find these days as everyone relies upon corporations and government.

I can agree with the vices and virtues but what of those who are hedonistic and egotistical, if morals are fully allowed to be relative than these men of ego will ruin the men of virtue, will good always triumph over evil? The good side says yes and the bad side thinks they had made the grand master plan, will people of virtue win? Is there a final showdown between good and evil, or does it go on everyday? Am I just babbling on?

Thats what God wants, not secondhand dogma and doctrine but for a better world, this world is not perfect nor will it be perfect but we as humans can agree we can make it better.

God, Humanity, A Better World... What if god was not anthropomorphized? What if God was the ultimate reality of the human potential... surely than those virtues you instilled would bring about a better world, no one says it will be easy but it would be rewarding if we worked toward a better world. I am not saying that the better world is an end, NO it is a means to an end... Well, what is the end? That is up to the individual to decide...

We as humans are spiritually evolving and as we do so, we are letting go of old spiritual practices that are no longer compatible with this new mode of thought.

I remember awhile back reading an article in Time magazine that was highlighting the so-called "athiest phenomenon" that is happening in our culture.

I then asked myself "why are so many people being drawn to athiesm? Simple, the only God most of these people have ever known is that of the judgmental and hateful Judeo-Christian one.

True, if humanity is really living and changing, than the modes and the way we fit must change as well, we need not old ideas to convene on the new ones however, as others have argued with me in the past, the old ideas are the starting point to what is new, new things do not just come about Ex Nihilo or "out of nothing."

Yes, I to find the "atheist phenomenon" just that, to me it is a fad for rebellious people who dont know a spiritual tradition that goes with there way of thinking or people who went through hard times and have not been able to forgive themselves or God for what happened, I am not saying ALL ATHEIST are the two above people, some people deep down just plain out lack the confidence for God to be conceivable. Personally, anyone who gets offended by what I say above can feel free to attack my position and say "Oh well, what about those evangelist in America, thats a fad too!" You know what, I would agree but know this I don't follow those religious people.

It could just be this fad is a transitional period from one old religious tradition to anew spiritual tradition, let us hope people have learned though the mistakes of the old and we can have people who will be like the city on the hill.

The problem I have is that everyone is so blinded by this search for something higher that they can't see the shit that happens right in front of them.

I realize that you can't control governments, and I am not talking about war, and genocide shit that happens. But in 1st world countries. The EU, America, China, Russia. All of them. It seems like everyone is out for them selves and anyone that says diffrent is against them.

I have met a lot of people, and I know the ones that are hell bent on domination, and the ones that are for humanity as a whole. You can tell in peoples voices, and expressions * I am hesitant to say Good ones and Bad ones* as it implies that someone is right and wrong, but You can.

I remember when I was living on Campus, and this religous group came to my door * students asking people about god*

They asked a bunch of questions, and The one that I thought about the hardest was "Can you tell if someone knows God?" I still think about it. And it took about 5 mins for me to come up with an answer. Me, not really believing in God as people talk about him, but as humanity as a group suprised myself when I said yes, but I don't think its so much as knowing god, as knowing but more of a presence with a person. I know a lot of people, and I know the good ones from the Bad ones." I gave them an example of this kid I used to work on our bicycles with. I implied we were on the same level of sorts, and we discussed how something would be cool to add to our bikes, or what ever. And we got along and nothing could take that away from us.

I guess there are just people that you can escape the world with, if just for a few hours.

They really liked that answer and I didn't even use god as a descriptor.

I have searched for other examples, and they usualy come from older more experienced people. I was on leave from Iraq last december, and I was asked to speak in a bunch of classes of former teachers from mine, and my brothers and sisters.

One of my teachers inparticular sturck me. He was a veteran from Vietnam and had seen a lot of shit. He was probably 50. But I looked in to his eyes, and when I was little * he taught middle school * I never really saw it. But I got back, and It was the same level that I had been on with a lot of other people, and to be on that level of someone so much older, and to understand where He was coming from. It was better than drugs.

I believe in humanity, but not as a higher force. Who said heaven was a place on earth?

This is as good as it gets, and we should do out best to help out people who have less than us.

This is as good as it gets, and we should do out best to help out people who have less than us.

I can get behind that, as long as it is not used as a recruitment poster for theism.

Nah, just trying to get people to suppourt the Concious Evolution movement. :p


http://www.evolve.org

HAHA, srsly. I like where they come from, although it needs work.

They don't seem to be selling anything.

I think they need to help out more with worldly problems, but the hippish thing I like.


http://www.evolve.org/pub/doc/evolve_about.html

The problem I have is that everyone is so blinded by this search for something higher that they can't see the shit that happens right in front of them.

I realize that you can't control governments, and I am not talking about war, and genocide shit that happens. But in 1st world countries. The EU, America, China, Russia. All of them. It seems like everyone is out for them selves and anyone that says diffrent is against them.

I have met a lot of people, and I know the ones that are hell bent on domination, and the ones that are for humanity as a whole. You can tell in peoples voices, and expressions * I am hesitant to say Good ones and Bad ones* as it implies that someone is right and wrong, but You can.

I remember when I was living on Campus, and this religous group came to my door * students asking people about god*

They asked a bunch of questions, and The one that I thought about the hardest was "Can you tell if someone knows God?" I still think about it. And it took about 5 mins for me to come up with an answer. Me, not really believing in God as people talk about him, but as humanity as a group suprised myself when I said yes, but I don't think its so much as knowing god, as knowing but more of a presence with a person. I know a lot of people, and I know the good ones from the Bad ones." I gave them an example of this kid I used to work on our bicycles with. I implied we were on the same level of sorts, and we discussed how something would be cool to add to our bikes, or what ever. And we got along and nothing could take that away from us.

I guess there are just people that you can escape the world with, if just for a few hours.

They really liked that answer and I didn't even use god as a descriptor.

I have searched for other examples, and they usualy come from older more experienced people. I was on leave from Iraq last december, and I was asked to speak in a bunch of classes of former teachers from mine, and my brothers and sisters.

One of my teachers inparticular sturck me. He was a veteran from Vietnam and had seen a lot of shit. He was probably 50. But I looked in to his eyes, and when I was little * he taught middle school * I never really saw it. But I got back, and It was the same level that I had been on with a lot of other people, and to be on that level of someone so much older, and to understand where He was coming from. It was better than drugs.

I believe in humanity, but not as a higher force. Who said heaven was a place on earth?

This is as good as it gets, and we should do out best to help out people who have less than us.

1. Part of the higherness is right in front of them. Ironically, you use Jesus as part of your user name and it was Jesus who said, The kingdom of Heaven is right in front of you. People dont look to Jesus as much as they should, they pull bits and pieces out of context, to justify there own actions. This is not as God Wills it but people are ignorant so they make the mistake.

2. This is the evil of institutionalizing everything, this shit will happen. I dont (as I hope others will agree) mean to "step on every bodies toes, but I anticipate that I will."

3. I said in another forum not on this site, "In my search for religious tolerance and understanding, I came to the conclusion everyone has good intentions, but it is how those intentions are acted upon, that is what causes problems."

4. Well, I would have answered the same way myself... I would have said it would be their actions and there intentions and the reasoning behind there actions, that would have changed them.

I remember watching the movie "Kingdom of Heaven" and its a great movie, I remember the scene with Balian and The Bishop or Priest of Jerusalem, it was toward the end of the movie, The Christians were like ready to die but Saladin but the priest of Jerusalem said "Convert to Islam and Repent latter!" Balian just said "You taught me a lot about religion, priest..." Balian had good intention and right action throughout the movie, while the priest want to save himself... Instutionalization of Religion and Spiritual matters are pathetic and corrupt... This is why the orthodox church is the way it is, it is rich and powerful, using its influence for its own political influence, to me that is a shame... Spiritual matters lie with you, as Christ himself has shown when he denounced the Pharisee's and others of Jewish Authority in the Bible.

5. You dont need to use the word God at all, but names given to spiritual matters can be very deceptive. When I say God people picture, a man with grey flowing hair, I dont, it could just be the ultimate reality of things.

6. I can agree with that but others want to "Immantize the Eschalon" in other words make heaven on earth. This place is flawed, a perfect world is impossible (unless you do what was done in Brave New World, but thats a dystopia) but a better world is never far from reach, it starts with the individual.

Dig in, motherfuckers. And I don't give a shit what you call it. Call it your inner self, higher self, subconscious, a god, some estranged deity, earth mother, or what ever the fuck you would like to call it. Just find it. It's inside you.

After you find it, use it. As you use it, you will learn more about it. As you learn more about it, you will begin to understand a little bit about it. As you understand it a little bit, you'll be able to use it even better.

Dig in, motherfuckers. And I don't give a shit what you call it. Call it your inner self, higher self, subconscious, a god, some estranged deity, earth mother, or what ever the fuck you would like to call it. Just find it. It's inside you.

After you find it, use it. As you use it, you will learn more about it. As you learn more about it, you will begin to understand a little bit about it. As you understand it a little bit, you'll be able to use it even better.

And then you'll be able to summon Leviathan.

The idea is not to summon evil things... Its for you, in the higher sense of the word.

The idea is not to summon evil things... Its for you, in the higher sense of the word.

No, you can then summon various beings and bend them to your will to increase your power.

This thread (https://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2106017) may help.

No, you can then summon various beings and bend them to your will to increase your power.

This thread (https://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2106017) may help.

^This is a rather unevolved viewpoint--maybe level one on the scale of higher consciousnesses.

All the power--not to mention love, strength, and compassion--you need now or will ever need is within you right now.

Good luck with trying to fuck with the free will of discarnate entities. I have a lot of experience with them, and I have never done it. One CAN reason with them, even out wit them--but "bend" them to your will--psssh.

^This is a rather unevolved viewpoint--maybe level one on the scale of higher consciousnesses.

All the power--not to mention love, strength, and compassion--you need now or will ever need is within you right now.

Good luck with trying to fuck with the free will of discarnate entities. I have a lot of experience with them, and I have never done it. One CAN reason with them, even out wit them--but "bend" them to your will--psssh.

Well, I don't have imaginary friends. Hex does though, and apparently they carry messages or whatever, so you should direct your questions about supernatural whatevering to Hex.

And then you'll be able to summon Leviathan.

If that's the way I understand the forces that be, what's the problem? I don't try to convert anyone to calling their conscience Metatron, or their pride Sammael, nor their sorrow Abaddon, nor their bolstered wrath and sense of immortality Leviathan, etc. I have a screwy head, and these parts of self that I experience manifest as external beings. Whether or not that's what they really are means essentially nothing - it works for me and my perception.

Find what works for you and yours: the point is that there's an incredible amount of power held in accepting one's innermost self and utilizing it to its fullest. It's the root of happiness: I call it Master/Light/God/Father, you might call it 'true self' or any other variety of names. The ascribed name doesn't matter, nor does one's manifestation of it...all that matters is whether you use it.

If that's the way I understand the forces that be, what's the problem? I don't try to convert anyone to calling their conscience Metatron, or their pride Sammael, nor their sorrow Abaddon, nor their bolstered wrath and sense of immortality Leviathan, etc. I have a screwy head, and these parts of self that I experience manifest as external beings. Whether or not that's what they really are means essentially nothing - it works for me and my perception.

Find what works for you and yours: the point is that there's an incredible amount of power held in accepting one's innermost self and utilizing it to its fullest. It's the root of happiness: I call it Master/Light/God/Father, you might call it 'true self' or any other variety of names. The ascribed name doesn't matter, nor does one's manifestation of it...all that matters is whether you use it.


Well, I don't call ``it'' anything, because ``it'' does not exist, and I've accepted that at the same time I accepted that Melwood, my imaginary friend, wasn't real.

I am my ``true self''. There's nothing more to it than that, and I sure as hell can't summon demons to lift rocks. Nobody can.

No, you can then summon various beings and bend them to your will to increase your power.

This thread (https://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2106017) may help.

All these things are part of you, they are you. Power is not the key to this equation, this way of thinking is what Hollywood would have you believe. There is more... but you just don't believe it, fine by me, perhaps it is best if you don't try it.

So far humans have demonstrated an relative inablity to use morals without attributing them to a religion.

Of course morales are good, and believing in something is good, but if religion comes as a side dish, I will send the plate back.
5char

Well, I don't call ``it'' anything, because ``it'' does not exist, and I've accepted that at the same time I accepted that Melwood, my imaginary friend, wasn't real.

I am my ``true self''. There's nothing more to it than that, and I sure as hell can't summon demons to lift rocks. Nobody can.

Yeah, you do call 'it' something; you call it reality. This reality includes various conscious entities, including yourself, that are divided into wonderfully complex systems of organization. I fried my head with drugs: These systems came to life in my world and my perception has been permanently altered.

Are they just manifestations of reflected imagination? Most likely. Does that change the reality they reflect? Not in the slightest.

Open your mind a little bit. It's just perception.