Hello Totse.
I was wondering how the people here who've actually been taught Russian in a classroom environment handle these?

ъ I've understood is a pause.
ь Is described as being a gentle 'yyyy' sound.

But... ы ? It's technically a letter and not like the above figures, another 'y' sound. But.. What is it used for? Do words not start with this letter?
It just seems odd to me as this is allways kept slightly seperate in the books I'm studying, as though it's not an actual letter.

ы
Well, basically, Russian has pairs of soft and hard vowels.

I'm sure you already know:

а, я

у, ю

о, ё

э, е

,right?

Well, ы and и basically form another pair. И doesn't have that "y" sound before it when you pronounce it alone, but when it's in a word you'll hear it. Ы is that sound's hard counterpart, thus it has absolutely no soft "y" sound in it.

Example: газеты
This is pronounced like "ga-ze-ti"

IF it was spelled газети, then it would be kind of like "ga-ze-tyi", with a slight "y" before the i.

That said, you really need to hear ы so you can pronounce it correctly. The actual sound can't be replicated accurately with English script. If you can find some sound files where the words вы or ты are pronounced, that's how the ы sound is. If you are pronouncing the vowel correctly, then there will be absolutely no "y" sound before it.

EDIT: http://www.masterrussian.com/aa032301a.shtml
Try that site.

ь
You have the right idea. When a word ends in the soft sign, the sound should be as if you were going to add a soft vowel after it, but stopped short.

Example: мат (which means "swear word")
мать (which means mother)

The latter sounds like мат if you added a "ya" sound to it, but removed the actual vowel. Do you see?

ъ
This just denotes a slight pause.

---

None of these will start a word. Ы is a vowel, and the other two are basically just symbols denoting pronunciation changes.

ы
Well, basically, Russian has pairs of soft and hard vowels.

I'm sure you already know:

а, я

у, ю

о, ё

э, е

,right?

Well, ы and и basically form another pair. И doesn't have that "y" sound before it when you pronounce it alone, but when it's in a word you'll hear it. Ы is that sound's hard counterpart, thus it has absolutely no soft "y" sound in it.

Example: газеты
This is pronounced like "ga-ze-ti"

IF it was spelled газети, then it would be kind of like "ga-ze-tyi", with a slight "y" before the i.

That said, you really need to hear ы so you can pronounce it correctly. The actual sound can't be replicated accurately with English script. If you can find some sound files where the words вы or ты are pronounced, that's how the ы sound is. If you are pronouncing the vowel correctly, then there will be absolutely no "y" sound before it.

EDIT: http://www.masterrussian.com/aa032301a.shtml
Try that site.

ь
You have the right idea. When a word ends in the soft sign, the sound should be as if you were going to add a soft vowel after it, but stopped short.

Example: мат (which means "swear word")
мать (which means mother)

The latter sounds like мат if you added a "ya" sound to it, but removed the actual vowel. Do you see?

ъ
This just denotes a slight pause.

---

None of these will start a word. Ы is a vowel, and the other two are basically just symbols denoting pronunciation changes.

http://www.gaitpa.com/images/HANDCLAP.gif

You just explained it better than these 4 books ever did:

Essentials of Russian Grammar
russian: A self teaching guide
Russian Course(penguin book)
Schaum's Outline

Thanks very much, DerDrache, it's really refreshing to have it actually explained by someone who knows what's going on.

As I'm very solitary, learning soley from books (Oh my god so many books) and not getting alot of contact with anyone, the risk of learning something wrong and picking up bad habits is quite worrying.

getting it from a human perspective is good.

Thanks very much, DerDrache, it's really refreshing to have it actually explained by someone who knows what's going on.

As I'm very solitary, learning soley from books (Oh my god so many books) and not getting alot of contact with anyone, the risk of learning something wrong and picking up bad habits is quite worrying.

getting it from a human perspective is good.

Вы хачичи гаварите паMSN ?

I just started learning not too long ago too, and like you I'm mainly hitting the books on my own. Well, my girlfriend speaks fluent russian, but I only use her to confirm shit, not to teach me.

ты хачичи гаварите паMSN ?

I just started learning not too long ago too, and like you I'm mainly hitting the books on my own. Well, my girlfriend speaks fluent russian, but I only use her to confirm shit, not to teach me.

Ты хочешь говорить по MSN?*

Ты хочешь говорить по MSN?*

да извиниче. катарум чэсоф?

да извиниче. катарум чэсоф?

извините*.

В котором часу.*

Dude, I see you're trying to spell these phonetically, but it looks like your phonetics are wrong in some cases. "те" isn't pronounced "че", and when "o" is stressed it has an "o" sound.

Whenever you learn a word, you gotta really make sure you learn the correct stess, or it'll fuck you up later. It's also extremely important that you learn to pronounce well early on. There are a lot of little rules, but once you learn them, that means you can read something and pronounce it correctly (assuming the stress is indicated). So, don't skimp on learning the pronunciation rules. Hearing things is an important part as well.

Princeton University had this course material posted online. The first few lessons are devoted to phonetics and spelling, and it's got sound files...look around for the link on google or that how-to-learn-languages.com forum. IF you can't find it then I can send it to you.

yoyo: lil_zay@msn.com

аффтар выпей йаду или убей себя апстенку и не пешы больше