Today, I stood up in the local body of believers I've been called to.
I stood up as a backslidder. Guys, I once thought that I was above temptation. I had my face set like the flint, and I would neverbackslide, or fall back into what God had brought me out of.
I'm being really honest here. I liked being able to pop up in here, whenever I felt like it, and be able to pick up where I left off. I was being honest on here. Laying what I was going through aside, to try and influence change for the Messiah, when I had lost that power in my daily life, because of the things I slid back into.
What angered me, is how much of the Word of God I know and believe, yet wouldn't obey. How I'm so blessed to be a believer, and yet, I didn't live my life like I believe. I had been backslidden since Oct. 24th, when I started back smoking cigarettes. December 24th, Pot followed. Jan. Fornication/adultery. I was honest enough to not hide it from the church. They took me out of childrens ministry, rightfully so, instantly. Guy after guy would pop up into my life, but I only slept with one of them, not to say I wasn't tempted to fornicate with more.
I lost my focus, my drive, and peace. I battled this everyday. Sometimes I would get quite enough to allow the conviction of my sin to settle in. It didn't last long. When I started feeling bad, I would instantly pick up the phone and find something to do to keep me from having to wonder. I got around the wrong crowd of people. Start rollin on X. It just elevated. The more I fought, the more I fell back into.
It boils down to me putting off a decision that I needed to make. I got kicked out of where I was staying and stayed with the guy i was sleeping with who was staying with an old white man. Second night after being kicked out, this old man tried to rape me. Best believe I had a knife beside me because I didn't trust the old man, and as soon as I seen opportunity, I got up out of there.

I didn't want to come back for the wrong motive either. To impress family, church members, or friends. I wanted it to be a sincere thing. Today it was, tomorrow it will be, next week, it will be even more so than day 1 of new beginnings.
I'm not perfect. I guess that's why I did it. To let down people's expectations on me. I can't stand for PEOPLE to expect me to be THEIR Messiah, or their standard. (Motive was wrong) I wanted to let them down, but i rebelled against God. EVEN though HE blessed me with a RED 2000 pontiac grand prix, paid for and fully furnished. I still rebelled!! I'm keeping my eyes on Him this time, and be bolder than I ever have been before. (I'm not taking my labret out either, if women can have their ears pierced then I can decorate my temple too.) That's what's really good! I'm excited about this. I really am. Even if I've blown my chances of going to Oklahoma, to Rhema Bible Training Center. God knew all this would happen before it did and He made the Way out for me. If He's placed the call on my life, then HE certifies me to do what He's called me to do. I have HIS stamp of approval and I needn't another's.

I feel GREAT. God is merciful! He's cleansed my mind from the stench of sin. He's placed in me a new heart attitude. He's taught me so much through this.

I don't REGRET having backslide, because I've learned so much out of it, and if any of you know me, which you don't. I'm very Choleric. I learn things by experience. It's nice to know, it's better to know why. I want to be teachable. To where I just OBEY, and don't question WHY I should. It's obviously for my benefit, and well-being. God never demands anything grevious.
I love you guys.

I want to know about your stories too, and your opinions.
Many look at believers and would call backslidden people hypocrits, and believe me they feel like that, but it's the heart attitude that matters. It's hard to get a snow ball rolling the other way up the hill, but not impossible. You just gotta fight, and refuse defeat.

I don't REGRET having backslide, because I've learned so much out of it, and if any of you know me, which you don't. I'm very Choleric. I learn things by experience. It's nice to know, it's better to know why. I want to be teachable. To where I just OBEY, and don't question WHY I should. It's obviously for my benefit, and well-being. God never demands anything grevious.
I love you guys.

I want to know about your stories too, and your opinions.
Many look at believers and would call backslidden people hypocrits, and believe me they feel like that, but it's the heart attitude that matters. It's hard to get a snow ball rolling the other way up the hill, but not impossible. You just gotta fight, and refuse defeat.

Sounds like you've been thru quite an experience and whilst I'm not a 'believer' in the same sense as the way you seem to present that term, I have drawn encouragement from the teachings found in the NT:

7What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet."[b] 8But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. 9Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.
11For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. 13Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

Romans 7

Cheers:)

I smoke cigarettes, drink socially, smoke pot on occasion, and snort a little coke every way once in awhile.

Me and my girlfriend enjoy watching porn together, and have tried numerous different things, to enjoy the amusement parks that are our bodies. We are currently talking to a girl she works with, to see if she would be interested in a threesome. Good news, she is. Her only problem with it is she is married, but not satisfied.

I curse, enjoy my anger, lie to my bosses at work, steal things I need from work, I found a wallet the other day with 50 bucks in it, kept the money and tossed the wallet back on the sidewalk.

I honestly do and have done all of these things, and more, and I do not have one fleeting feeling of remorse for my actions. I still consider myself a decent person, and most everyone I know would agree.

I do all of this, and feel this way about it, because I made a choice not to believe in God. God could be real, and I may find my way to hell (I certainly wont want for company), but I would rather laugh with the sinners, than cry with saints.

I honestly do and have done all of these things, and more, and I do not have one fleeting feeling of remorse for my actions. I still consider myself a decent person, and most everyone I know would agree.

I do all of this, and feel this way about it, because I made a choice not to believe in God. God could be real, and I may find my way to hell (I certainly wont want for company), but I would rather laugh with the sinners, than cry with saints.

QFMFT.


Your sins are the only thing interesting about you you dreary, bleak motherfuckers.

I smoke cigarettes, drink socially, smoke pot on occasion, and snort a little coke every way once in awhile.

Me and my girlfriend enjoy watching porn together, and have tried numerous different things, to enjoy the amusement parks that are our bodies. We are currently talking to a girl she works with, to see if she would be interested in a threesome. Good news, she is. Her only problem with it is she is married, but not satisfied.

I curse, enjoy my anger, lie to my bosses at work, steal things I need from work, I found a wallet the other day with 50 bucks in it, kept the money and tossed the wallet back on the sidewalk.

I honestly do and have done all of these things, and more, and I do not have one fleeting feeling of remorse for my actions. I still consider myself a decent person, and most everyone I know would agree.

I do all of this, and feel this way about it, because I made a choice not to believe in God. God could be real, and I may find my way to hell (I certainly wont want for company), but I would rather laugh with the sinners, than cry with saints.

I hate to rain on your parade, as you seem to enjoy your self-image as a bad-ass motherfucker, but the fact is, you're not doing anything wrong, and you're not going to hell.

You want to do narcotics, fine. You want to watch porn and fuck? Also fine. You think God gives a shit? Think again.

But are you really trying to rationalze your self-indulgent, dishonest, pathological, immature, and self-destructive behavior as being a result of your schoolboy atheism? Oh, please, gimme a break. Sounds like you are trying to give atheists a bad name. But the fact you even use words like "sin" and "saints" argues that you have not yet transcended early religious programming. There is no such thing as sin, and we are all on the road to sainthood.

Today, I stood up in the local body of believers I've been called to.
I stood up as a backslidder. Guys, I once thought that I was above temptation. I had my face set like the flint, and I would neverbackslide, or fall back into what God had brought me out of.
I'm being really honest here. I liked being able to pop up in here, whenever I felt like it, and be able to pick up where I left off. I was being honest on here. Laying what I was going through aside, to try and influence change for the Messiah, when I had lost that power in my daily life, because of the things I slid back into.
What angered me, is how much of the Word of God I know and believe, yet wouldn't obey. How I'm so blessed to be a believer, and yet, I didn't live my life like I believe. I had been backslidden since Oct. 24th, when I started back smoking cigarettes. December 24th, Pot followed. Jan. Fornication/adultery. I was honest enough to not hide it from the church. They took me out of childrens ministry, rightfully so, instantly. Guy after guy would pop up into my life, but I only slept with one of them, not to say I wasn't tempted to fornicate with more.
I lost my focus, my drive, and peace. I battled this everyday. Sometimes I would get quite enough to allow the conviction of my sin to settle in. It didn't last long. When I started feeling bad, I would instantly pick up the phone and find something to do to keep me from having to wonder. I got around the wrong crowd of people. Start rollin on X. It just elevated. The more I fought, the more I fell back into.
It boils down to me putting off a decision that I needed to make. I got kicked out of where I was staying and stayed with the guy i was sleeping with who was staying with an old white man. Second night after being kicked out, this old man tried to rape me. Best believe I had a knife beside me because I didn't trust the old man, and as soon as I seen opportunity, I got up out of there.

I didn't want to come back for the wrong motive either. To impress family, church members, or friends. I wanted it to be a sincere thing. Today it was, tomorrow it will be, next week, it will be even more so than day 1 of new beginnings.
I'm not perfect. I guess that's why I did it. To let down people's expectations on me. I can't stand for PEOPLE to expect me to be THEIR Messiah, or their standard. (Motive was wrong) I wanted to let them down, but i rebelled against God. EVEN though HE blessed me with a RED 2000 pontiac grand prix, paid for and fully furnished. I still rebelled!! I'm keeping my eyes on Him this time, and be bolder than I ever have been before. (I'm not taking my labret out either, if women can have their ears pierced then I can decorate my temple too.) That's what's really good! I'm excited about this. I really am. Even if I've blown my chances of going to Oklahoma, to Rhema Bible Training Center. God knew all this would happen before it did and He made the Way out for me. If He's placed the call on my life, then HE certifies me to do what He's called me to do. I have HIS stamp of approval and I needn't another's.

I feel GREAT. God is merciful! He's cleansed my mind from the stench of sin. He's placed in me a new heart attitude. He's taught me so much through this.

I don't REGRET having backslide, because I've learned so much out of it, and if any of you know me, which you don't. I'm very Choleric. I learn things by experience. It's nice to know, it's better to know why. I want to be teachable. To where I just OBEY, and don't question WHY I should. It's obviously for my benefit, and well-being. God never demands anything grevious.
I love you guys.

I want to know about your stories too, and your opinions.
Many look at believers and would call backslidden people hypocrits, and believe me they feel like that, but it's the heart attitude that matters. It's hard to get a snow ball rolling the other way up the hill, but not impossible. You just gotta fight, and refuse defeat.

fucking crazy bitch

I smoke cigarettes, drink socially, smoke pot on occasion, and snort a little coke every way once in awhile.

Me and my girlfriend enjoy watching porn together, and have tried numerous different things, to enjoy the amusement parks that are our bodies. We are currently talking to a girl she works with, to see if she would be interested in a threesome. Good news, she is. Her only problem with it is she is married, but not satisfied.

I curse, enjoy my anger, lie to my bosses at work, steal things I need from work, I found a wallet the other day with 50 bucks in it, kept the money and tossed the wallet back on the sidewalk.

I honestly do and have done all of these things, and more, and I do not have one fleeting feeling of remorse for my actions. I still consider myself a decent person, and most everyone I know would agree.

I do all of this, and feel this way about it, because I made a choice not to believe in God. God could be real, and I may find my way to hell (I certainly wont want for company), but I would rather laugh with the sinners, than cry with saints.


Ah, the defiant one! Don't you know that your outwardly expressed defiance and anger is but a mere reflection of the inner turmoil? Your ways will end your life sooner rather than latter, your need to indulge more and more and more is what will screw you over. But, on God in this matter where does The Father stand? I tell you the truth, God is love as they say right?

Love forgives all sins and trespasses done against you and me and each other, when you die (and we all do) you will see the light of love and compassion but it wouldn't be God who is ashamed at you, no, it will be you who is ashamed of yourself for hurting others and yourself to this being that gave you a life and you treated it as if it were nothing...

Repentance is not about, "Forgive me father, don't throw me into that pit of fire!" But rather, "I regret what i have done and I renounce my actions because, I know that i have hurt others and myself even if in that moment of hurt and did not admit the fact that I have hurt others."

Well as part of my beliefs Hell is a place where people want to go... You made your decision while in this life, so be it. But even Christ himself says to those while killing him "Forgive them father for they know not what they do." The same goes for you... Your arrogant defiance blinds you, and I hope that you may come to the light and love that is God.

Labelling an event or a choice as a "failure" is not conducive to spiritual growth. Nor is labelling per se. What is, is.

In my reality, there is a perfection in everything. There are no accidents, there are no coincidences, and God does not make mistakes.

I hate to rain on your parade, as you seem to enjoy your self-image as a bad-ass motherfucker, but the fact is, you're not doing anything wrong, and you're not going to hell.

You want to do narcotics, fine. You want to watch porn and fuck? Also fine. You think God gives a shit? Think again.

But are you really trying to rationalze your self-indulgent, dishonest, pathological, immature, and self-destructive behavior as being a result of your schoolboy atheism? Oh, please, gimme a break. Sounds like you are trying to give atheists a bad name. But the fact you even use words like "sin" and "saints" argues that you have not yet transcended early religious programming. There is no such thing as sin, and we are all on the road to sainthood.

I don't have a self image of being a bad ass. The things I listed only seem bad ass to middle schoolers. My point was to display a life I happily lead, without guilt. A life MOST religious people would see as sinful and wrong.

Not you of course, b/c we all know how enlightened you are. You live in a shack and find stuff in dumpsters. I call it lazy, you call it the path to enlightenment, but that is neither here nor there.

I was not an atheist when I was in school. I did not lose my faith in teenage angst. So rationalizing any self-indulgent behavior as being a result of my schoolboy atheism, is quite simple wrong.

Operating on a higher spiritual plane of existence than the rest of us Arms (which btw REEKS of egoism) you should know these things. Or does your magical spirit give you this kind of power. I honestly, don't know.

"I would rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints" is an old saying.

So by expressing my feelings using this old saying, I am displaying my lack of tranzcendence of early religious programming? If I were to say "birda of a feather flock together" and "two heads are better than one" would I be displaying an inability to deprogram myself of the marxist ideals instilled upon us in the education system?

Your "enlightenment" impresses me not in the slightest. I think you have a long way to go, and playing around on the webernet is only holding you back. How much can you learn of YOURSELF, by typing your nonsense on the computer? You should be meditating and rubbing crystals to acheive that higher magical spirit plane, shouldn't you? Or perhaps through buddhist chant, or hallucinogenic spirit quests, or sensory deprivation.

Just seems like Totse is the last place I would come to (much less moderate) were I TRULY serious about enlightenment.

Good luck.

Labelling an event or a choice as a "failure" is not conducive to spiritual growth. Nor is labelling per se. What is, is.

In my reality, there is a perfection in everything. There are no accidents, there are no coincidences, and God does not make mistakes.

I have a few choice words for you that God would not permit me to say, because I wouldn't be walking in love if I said them, but you can imagine something similiar to broke prophet, with a little more flavor.

First of all, BLESSED BEING, God doesn't make mistakes, but YOU my dearest, FELLOW MAN, are not God. Furthermore, since you're not, you're HUMAN, and apt to fail, and be defeated. The best (humans) fail and keep trying, because they don't accept anything other than success. It's called persistence. God would never say ENDURE with stedfast patience if we didn't need it. He says ENDURE, because some won't. He said some will lose heart, but [you] see to it you don't. The responsibility is placed on you.

I can already see you're one of those types that thinks God just controls everything. Obviously haven't read your bible, or you're blinded by your religion and accept what a man instructs you as truth and never see what God says. I can't stand someone who'll sit under a minister preaching things that don't line up with the word of God and then go and spread their same ignorance.

"All you've learned in school (nowadays in some churches) is from one fallen head instructing another fallen head." Christ never says LOOK TO YOUR PREACHER! He says, LOOK TO ME! YET, christians will never read their bibles, or give it a courtesy dust off.

AGAIN, incase you didn't catch this. You're NOT God, you DO make mistakes. Every HUMAN, which is what you are, does.

The Word of God says, "BY GRACE are you SAVED through FAITH, not that of YOURSELVES lest ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST." Grace is something you don't earn.
Let me tell you some more about grace since you lack the sense to read your bible and know what GRACE is. David a MAN full of faith, God said was perfect! OMGoodness! Yet, we can read accounts of David commiting adultry, and then putting the woman's husband on the FRONTLINE of the battle field to be killed. He knew what he was doing. David should have been out their with the Army of Israel and he wasn't and ended up getting himself in trouble. GOD, still says HE WAS UPRIGHT. Did HIS actions have a consequence? Yep. It cost him the lives of his children and it almost cost him his kingdom when his son tried to rise against him and take it from him, after having killed his other son for raping his daughter. This is accounted back to when David wasn't doing what he should have been doing and sinned. (Perfect is what God says.) Did God PLAN for this to happen to David? No, it wasn't in God's plans for that to happen to Him at all. In fact if you read the promise that rested on Abraham, ABUNDANCE, PROSPERITY, FRUITFULNESS, ETC. that was the same PROMISE and plan that was in store for David. David's actions apart from God cost him. God never planned that for David. NEVER. David did that apart from God. HOWEVER, his sins didn't cost him the promise. David had to overcome some things in his personal life, and through this he did learn, but he could have just obeyed, and it would have been a whole lost easier and he would have gotten a better result.

God calls David perfect because His heart never changed towards Him. Sin will always cost you SOME WHERE. It's called WILLFULLY sinning against God. David did that. God's GRACE and MERCY covered him, and the gift was and is still irrevokable.

I'm not trying to be cocky, but I WILL come at you the way you come at me, and bring Word in it to back what I say up.

Your religious beliefs can return from whence they came. I THOUGHT EVERY ONE ATHEIST AND CHRISTIAN ALIKE KNEW THAT THEY MAKE MISTAKES! I guess I was wrong. (Irony, I must have been MISTAKEN.)

Christians like you, create more atheists than you will ever know.

Your shame and your guilt are all your personal choice. You feel guilty and ashamed b/c an ancient flawed, and fallible book tells you to. This is probably what you should feel ashamed about the most.

You believe you communicate with a higher power, who is trying to lead you towards grace. I believe you communicate with yourself, and try through introspection to become what you believe is a better person.

Either way, you have obviously failed.

Christians like you, create more atheists than you will ever know.

Your shame and your guilt are all your personal choice. You feel guilty and ashamed b/c an ancient flawed, and fallible book tells you to. This is probably what you should feel ashamed about the most.

You believe you communicate with a higher power, who is trying to lead you towards grace. I believe you communicate with yourself, and try through introspection to become what you believe is a better person.

Either way, you have obviously failed.


Let me tell you why I haven't failed. I haven't given up.

Let me tell you why I haven't failed. I haven't given up.

Yes! Great answer:D

It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat. The Man In the Arena

by Theodore Roosevelt
(From a speech delivered in Paris in 1910)




Cheers:)

I have had a vaguely similar experience recently. I thought I could never fail, but I did, I made a mistake. I was about to experience a material loss and wanted to avoid that loss. I wasn't thinking. I thought it would be alright, that so long as the WAY in which I did it was correct, but its impossible, it went against what I know I have to do.

Even so, I think I'm now better for it. These events have forced me to resolve internal conflicts and develop a deeper understanding of my morality. I understand more clearly how I need to respond to situations like that. You learn from these things. Your decisions are your own, and the only reason for failure is that your understanding is imperfect.

I hope I'm strong enough if it means I have to suffer for it.

I have had a vaguely similar experience recently. I thought I could never fail, but I did, I made a mistake. I was about to experience a material loss and wanted to avoid that loss. I wasn't thinking. I thought it would be alright, that so long as the WAY in which I did it was correct, but its impossible, it went against what I know I have to do.

Even so, I think I'm now better for it. These events have forced me to resolve internal conflicts and develop a deeper understanding of my morality. I understand more clearly how I need to respond to situations like that. You learn from these things. Your decisions are your own, and the only reason for failure is that your understanding is imperfect.

I hope I'm strong enough if it means I have to suffer for it.

I don't know if you're a believer or not. Either way, God doesn't commands us to be strong. He tells us to be strong in the power of His might.

Either way, God doesn't commands us to be strong. He tells us to be strong in the power of His might.

Why do you wish to be commanded?

Are you afraid of freedom?

Why do you wish to be commanded?

Are you afraid of freedom?

No. I have freedom in Him. Freedom from the bondage of sin. I'm afraid of the price of sin, because I'm unable to supply the demand it requires. Sin always costs people. In some form or fashion. "What about the bad things that happen to good people?" You don't know what that person's relationship with God was like.

I consider myself a good person on the world's standards, and you would too if you knew me. However, you don't know what I know and you can't be held accountable for what I know and I can't be held accountable for what you know. You may know 1 thing, but if you hold to that one thing and don't let it go, you're faithful. I may know 10 things, but if I don't hold to them, and I live loosely, and let them go, i'm unfaithful to what I say I hold to. I'll say you can find more faithful unbelievers towards what they say they don't believe than you can believers toward what they say they do believe.

This is a war I rage daily. You want to know what bother's me, ArmsMerchant?
It bothers me, that I can sit here and know the truth of what to do in a situation, or in other's situations, but to do it, isn't in me. It bothers me that I can listen to you, and maybe identify with what you're saying to an extent even while knowing the Truth, because of the humanity that binds me to feel, have felt, and relate to you in your state. When doing that though, I place myself back in the state of a reminder. It bothers me that I can and do that with all people. I feel like I shouldn't ever identify with another's fallen state, because CHrist did that for me, and you. I should always identify with His resurrection.. This is why I've said this before and say it now, and again.. You can NOT have confidence in CHrist, when you're in sin, willfully.

It bothers me that I listen to outside by staind, and I feel everything I hear, because I do that with people too. We all, look through our own little windows, and see things according to the color of the glass we're looking through. We desire to see clearly, but we don't want to look through a different tint. It's called complacentcy.

Even though these things bother me, I must learn to balance them. Because it's the only key to relating to humanity. It can be grevious, or glorious. It can be beautiful, or painful. It can be all of these, but it's really what we take it as and make it to be.

I don't know if you're a believer or not. Either way, God doesn't commands us to be strong. He tells us to be strong in the power of His might.

Doesn't matter.

How can you have responsibility without power? Your decisions are your own, aren't they?

Actions are more significant than words. When you do something you say you disagree with, it means that there was something more important to you. Your decisions at the time prove that you were not the person you believed yourself to be. If it's not in you to take a particular action, that action is not yours.

All that's left after that is to listen to yourself and reconcile your motivations and what you really believe about the entire situation and how much you want what you think you have lost, logically and emotionally, and take that into account when making future decisions.

Failing to deal with a dichotomy of your decisions and beliefs leads to ignorance and hatred of yourself. For years, I thought that a failure to take a certain course of action was the cause of all my problems, but I never paid attention to the fact that when it came down to it, I just didn't care about these ideas. In my daily life, they just weren't important to me. No matter how much I berated myself, no matter how miserable I made myself feel about it or how many times I thought about killing myself, my actions reflected the person I really was, the things I really wanted and believed were right, on a deeper level.

I didn't make any progress until I accepted this. You can only do something by doing it. You have to want it, and want it exactly as you see it. Just thinking you'll try isn't enough.

No. I have freedom in Him. Freedom from the bondage of sin. I'm afraid of the price of sin, because I'm unable to supply the demand it requires.

Obey.

That is the main theme of the bible. Obey. If you obey someone, no matter what it is they demand (looking at you abraham), then you do not have freedom in any sense of the word.

You may feel this God grants you freedom from the bondage of sin, but he does not. You will always sin, so will I. The difference is the guilt and shame.

The guilt is your bondage to your God. Your guilt haunts and binds you to him. You are not free of senseless guilt, and shame.

You are not even free from guilt about the most basic, natural and wonderful thing two humans can do together. You need his permission to fuck, or you feel guilty, shameful and disgusting.

Your personal salvation from things you perceive to be detrimental to you do not require an imaginary friend.


This is a mental illness, and I wish you all the best in treating it.

Obey.

That is the main theme of the bible. Obey. If you obey someone, no matter what it is they demand (looking at you abraham), then you do not have freedom in any sense of the word.

You may feel this God grants you freedom from the bondage of sin, but he does not. You will always sin, so will I. The difference is the guilt and shame.

The guilt is your bondage to your God. Your guilt haunts and binds you to him. You are not free of senseless guilt, and shame.

You are not even free from guilt about the most basic, natural and wonderful thing two humans can do together. You need his permission to fuck, or you feel guilty, shameful and disgusting.

Your personal salvation from things you perceive to be detrimental to you do not require an imaginary friend.


This is a mental illness, and I wish you all the best in treating it.

God says, "Please". I'm not really trying to pay half attention to what you say, because to me what you say doesn't make sense.

I have no guilt. If I didn't I wouldn't be getting myself into a relationship with the person I am. I have a decision. I make my decisions, but like you I will live with the actions I take. Because LAW for every ACTION there is a just recompence. Jummp off a bridge, you'll see what consequences follow (please don't really do that).

Shame? Perhaps. Don't we all have things we're ASHAMED of. Stop looking at me apart from you.. We're ALL human. You too have shame. Wishing you would have done something differently, or not taking a chance at something you should have, and wish you would have. DON'T try to tell me I'm the ONLY one, because I KNOW BETTER.

God says, "Please". I'm not really trying to pay half attention to what you say, because to me what you say doesn't make sense.

I have no guilt. If I didn't I wouldn't be getting myself into a relationship with the person I am. I have a decision. I make my decisions, but like you I will live with the actions I take. Because LAW for every ACTION there is a just recompence. Jummp off a bridge, you'll see what consequences follow (please don't really do that).

Shame? Perhaps. Don't we all have things we're ASHAMED of. Stop looking at me apart from you.. We're ALL human. You too have shame. Wishing you would have done something differently, or not taking a chance at something you should have, and wish you would have. DON'T try to tell me I'm the ONLY one, because I KNOW BETTER.

Not true. If you accept what was driving you at the time, and make decisions consciously, there is no shame. Sure, people exist who feel it, but not everyone does. Just because your actions don't perfectly follow some sort of ideal doesn't mean you can't respect them. To feel shame is to disrespect yourself.

A level of narcissism that could be described as delusional is the way to go.

Edit: and 'please' takes on a different connotation when the speaker is holding a gun in one hand and money in the other. I mean, have you read the bible? God is a manipulative asshole.

God says, "Please". I'm not really trying to pay half attention to what you say, because to me what you say doesn't make sense.

God says please do as I say or I will punish you. There is a difference between someone saying "please pass the salt" and someone saying "please pass the salt, else I will condem your spirit to eternal torment.

Shame? Perhaps. Don't we all have things we're ASHAMED of. Stop looking at me apart from you.. We're ALL human. You too have shame. Wishing you would have done something differently, or not taking a chance at something you should have, and wish you would have. DON'T try to tell me I'm the ONLY one, because I KNOW BETTER.

The difference I do not get ashamed when my dick gets hard. When I masterbate. When I fuck.

I do not get ashamed when I partake in drugs and alcohol (on those rare occassions).

I feel no shame for stealing cable or cheating on my taxes.

I feel no shame in lying to my employers, when I desire a day off.

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You do. You feel that you must.

You call it backslidden, I call it life.

Not true. If you accept what was driving you at the time, and make decisions consciously, there is no shame. Sure, people exist who feel it, but not everyone does. Just because your actions don't perfectly follow some sort of ideal doesn't mean you can't respect them. To feel shame is to disrespect yourself.

A level of narcissism that could be described as delusional is the way to go.

Edit: and 'please' takes on a different connotation when the speaker is holding a gun in one hand and money in the other. I mean, have you read the bible? God is a manipulative asshole.

It is true. If there's a decision to be made, then there's a request, and a will at hand.
Simple logic. SIMPLE. God doesn't manipulate. He sees everything to come and warns us to obey so those consequences don't follow our actions.

DUDE, please look at the state this world is in. GOD seen this coming. Had there been enough people listening to Him and OBEYING, then it wouldn't be in the shape it is right now. People chose their way, instead of His way. So we have what's around us, right now. You want to blame God? Blame HUMANITY.

It is true. If there's a decision to be made, then there's a request, and a will at hand.
Simple logic. SIMPLE. God doesn't manipulate. He sees everything to come and warns us to obey so those consequences don't follow our actions.

DUDE, please look at the state this world is in. GOD seen this coming. Had there been enough people listening to Him and OBEYING, then it wouldn't be in the shape it is right now. People chose their way, instead of His way. So we have what's around us, right now. You want to blame God? Blame HUMANITY.

Its not true that everyone has shame. The idea that you can try and fail is a myth, because it supposes that imagining that you are trying has any bearing at all on your action. Your conscious mind and your desires are not fundamentally separate things, because the drive to follow ideals itself is a desire. If you take an action, it means that given what you knew about it, you WANTED to take that action more than you wanted to avoid it. If someone cut you in line at a buffet or something, what's stopping you from later tracking them down and shoving a screwdriver into their face? The desire to avoid that sort of thing is generally stronger than the desire to avoid cutting someone else in line. If you want your entire being to be subservient to your ideals, your drive to follow those ideals, how much you care about them, has to be stronger than everything else.

And it almost never is. If you believed that it was wrong to submerge yourself in water, it's almost guaranteed that you would violate that if you were on fire. Because people really don't like being on fire. I'm not saying that it wouldn't be a beautiful thing to burn to death in service of your beliefs, but if you don't, it doesn't say anything about how strong you are. Only about how much you really care (which could still be considerable; burning skin hurts a lot).

DUDE, please look at the state this world is in. GOD seen this coming. Had there been enough people listening to Him and OBEYING, then it wouldn't be in the shape it is right now. People chose their way, instead of His way. So we have what's around us, right now. You want to blame God? Blame HUMANITY.

What state? What is more wrong with the state of the world today, than there was 400+ years ago?

The world, and a good deal of people in it, are better off today than it has been throughout all of recorded human history. Even those who live a primitive or third world life today......are equal in suffering to ancient or mid-evil peoples. The Western World lives wonderfully compared to the ancient tribal Jews who wrote your story book. The lives of everyone 200 years ago, PALES in comparision to those living below the poverty line in America today.

The world is a better place. The parts of the world that are the best.......are the places God is dead.

Deicide for the win.

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People listened to God when he said "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live". Oops. People listened when God said a lot of things. People listened when he said not to covet your nieghbors shit.......no capitalism for these folks.

I do blame God for the slow start humanity has had in growing. Without God, we may have discovered electricity and other scientific breakthroughs 500 years ago. Just now in our lifetimes our scientists may be unlocking the secret of gravity, or building our first starship.

I blame the figment you call God.

Since when did believing in Christ require shame or guilt?

Oh my God! I sin! ...what a fucking surprise there... I think I'll go feel shitty about not being the all perfect God instead of just moving on with life.

Shelly. Pick yourself up and keep trucking! No shame. No guilt.

Ya know, I'm a fucking alcoholic and addict to the most extreme definition of the words. It took me a mere five years to go from 235 pounds in excellent health to being 140 pounds on the verge of death. God picked me out of that. I can sit around mourning my mistakes, pitying my self for my weaknesses...or I can move past that and just enjoy life. Eden isn't dead, sister. Remember this: God took the time to craft your being. He looks upon His creation and says, 'It is good.' He's done what is necessary for our transgressions to be forgiven and rectified.

I've walked through the lake of fire in this life, and I'm still here. I don't feel shame for what I've done. It has all gone to show me that no matter what I, or anyone else does, God will always love us and keep us until our appointed times.

I've stolen, I've cursed, I've fought, I've ripped my family apart, I've manipulated, coerced, and more. I've done all of these things often seen as terrible, yet God loves me. God still keeps me. He still sees me as worth loving, and I have no fucking right to question that decision...if a perfect God thinks I'm worthy of love, then I am MOTHERFUCKING WORTHY regardless of anything I've done. Life is still good. All of creation is still good. Even BrokeProphet is good. ;P

Do I still lie? Sometimes, yeah. Thieve? Only from Wal-Mart. Manipulate? Yeah. We're human. We tend to stray from God in favor of the flesh. Will we ever be beyond that? Not in this lifetime. Focus on perfection and you'll make progress. There's no need to look at anything you've ever done wrong and be like, "How foolish of me!" ...rather, I try to take, "Yet God still loves me and provides for me." Gratitude is infinitely more satisfying than self-pity, and leads to much quicker recovery from any troubles in life.

Man. Ima have to say.. WHAT YOU SAID. You're a brotha that has a revelation of the love of God for mankind. However.. that's to grow. Cain killed Able with the blood crying out, to God for justice.. Cain said, "Am I my brother's keeper." God later said, love your neighbor as yourself. Love your enemies, bless those that curse you, and pray for those that DESPITEFULLY USE and persecute you. That's a strong discipline for a disciple. The Messiah said, "If any man come after me, let Him deny himself DAILY, take up HIS CROSS, and FOLLOW ME." Follow me where? To death, to the flesh.

Paul demonstrates the human struggle in US against sin, when He said, "The things that I don't want to do, that I do, and the things that I want to do, I can't find it in myself to do." Then He said, "I find a LAW.. When I want to do good, sin is EVER PRESENT with me." The Messiah said, "I will not leave you comfortless. I will send the Holy Spirit and He will teach you all things. You will recieve POWER to be witnesses once the Holy Spirit has come upon you. Acts 1:8. That word WITNESSES, is martyr when translated properly. He will give you the POWER to become a martyr. To die to your fleshly desires. We often beat our desire, restrain them, surpress them, instead of expressing the Messiah. We can't kill our desires, and in order for something to be TAKEN OUT, something MUST BE PUT IN IT'S PLACE.
The Messiah demonstrates that to us in a parable when He spoke of the spirits returning to the home that was vancant but garnished.

Paul later instructs that we CONTINUOUSLY be filled with the Holy Spirit. I believe when everyone get's born again they recieve a measure of the anointing of the Holy Spirit, which destroys the yoke and removes the burden. That's why it's so easy to lay aside sin when you first come to Messiah. I mean, you're seeking Him. You're walking with Him. You're eager to know more. You're hungry for Him. You thrist for Him, and His yoke is easy, His burden is light. If it isn't easy and light it isn't of The Messiah.

Paul warns us in Galatians 5:1 Not to be entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Yeilding to sin. Instead of learning patience in our time of character devolopment, we tend to fall` back into those things we were brought out of, and it becomes more of a struggle. Because the spirits have returned with better tricks, when they were afraid, and you're just playing the part thinking you can outsmart them. I'm telling you my story anyways. I say I like challenges. No, I like to challenge, and rebell.. and it isn't OF GOD AT ALL. Okay. I'm still in a backslidden state, and I know what I need to do, I don't know WHY I keep putting it off.

I'm saying this to you and to me. The Father told us in the end times perilous times will come. The hearts of many will fail them BUT (YOU) See to it that your heart isn't troubled." That you're trusting in Him. I know God loves me, and I say I love Him, and in my heart I do.

I've just made myself cold towards humanity, and God loves without regard to human stance. He is Love. If I really loved my brother, I wouldn't stumble and fall in front of them, bringing a reproach upon the Messiah with my hypocritical lifestyle. I'm going to be held accountable. I don't think I would at all enjoy having blood on my hands because I sowed my mouth shut, and refused the Messiah access into my life, and therefore hindering Him from effecting a change in the lives of those around me.

I've had alot of men problems. I don't trust men. It's sad, but I don't let them in. I use to have nothing but guy friends, but now I can't because I constantly question their motive in talking to me. Now, I'm beginning to have alot of OLDER female friends, so we're all men bashing together. (That's a sarcastic joke, I promise, although I have done this before.) I've seen women break down mens trust, but it does go to show, we're unstable and unreliable, and we're better off to rely on the Messiah to fill those desires in us.

Love yall. If I think I don't. I'm going to make myself.

Best wishes Shelly. I'll pray for you, and regardless of whether you let Him help you as much as you need, He will be there for you where you let Him. :)

Since when did believing in Christ require shame or guilt?

Since the first bite of the apple.

Both you and Hellz are bound by the shame and guilt of your sin. You know you will sin again. You will pray and cry and beg and grovel for forgiveness with your watery eyes cast towards the heavens. You will mumble promises of repentence through gasped breaths, as you cry and beg for fogiveness.

You will in front of your church, openly weep, and confess your sins against God. You will in your own bedrooms, as you lie awake begin to cry, at the afront to God your lives have become.

Shame and guilt are the foundations of your religion, and have been since the first bite of the apple.

Have you ever seen the trick plaques or patterns where the raised or highlighted lettering looks like hieroglyphics, but if you focus instead on the pattern they make - a word appears? Try reading scripture like that! BP is using a metaphorical story in an illegitimate way. The fruit was not an 'apple', not a literal fruit at all! Fair go when did you last see a tree of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil? A more glaring clue to the story being metaphorical surely there could not be! Like a 'family' tree, the trees in the garden are not literal, they are a literary devise, a metaphor? It goes something like this: in the myth are lessons - God/Elohim/Aggregate of all Being created everything there is and declared it all good! Several times he declares it good! All was good! Whence cometh evil? "There is nothing good or evil except thinking makes it so" Shakespeare. "As a man thinketh so is he", "To the pure all things are pure".(Bible)

The metaphorical fruit of the tree of knowledge is illusion. It is the illusions and delusions one creates thru making capricious, subjective judgements designating some things as good and others as evil. Example: Death vs Life, death is seen as evil and life as good yet in the reality one can actually observe, life is the beginning of suffering and death it's ending. Death in nature leads to new life, endings become beginnings. On the other hand, if all that is is seen simply as 'that which exists' there is no place for designating good or evil. That which exists = good, that which does not exist is not evil - it is illusion, for there is no reality in that which does not exist.

Evil is a delusion created in the mind of those who designate any part of good/being/existence/creation as evil and act upon their self created illusion as tho it were real. That is the original and continuing sin/error of man! In reality, accept life is life, it's the way things are! It's all good:D

Cheers:)

Since the first bite of the apple.

Both you and Hellz are bound by the shame and guilt of your sin. You know you will sin again. You will pray and cry and beg and grovel for forgiveness with your watery eyes cast towards the heavens. You will mumble promises of repentence through gasped breaths, as you cry and beg for fogiveness.

You will in front of your church, openly weep, and confess your sins against God. You will in your own bedrooms, as you lie awake begin to cry, at the afront to God your lives have become.

Shame and guilt are the foundations of your religion, and have been since the first bite of the apple.

Hex, I see now what you're saying. You're right in the since that we're cleanesed completely from the STAIN and stench of guilt. 1 John 1:9 says we continuously need to be cleansed.

Broke Prophet, You only feel guilt if you're guilty. Shoot, you come up to me and tell me you found powder in my car, I'm going to look at you and say with a CONFIDENCE, "No you didn't." However, if I've had friends in my car that have had powder, or went to pick up some from the city, I might turn red, because of the embarassment of being caught, and get a little nervous!

Broke Prophet, You only feel guilt if you're guilty.

But, you are guilty of sin. You have probably sinned this week. Maybe even today. What is important to remember is you will sin again, and again, and again.

WHEN (not if) you do, you WILL feel shame and guilt. You cannot repent without these things. You will grovel for forgiveness. Wasted breath will grace your lips as you make promises of renewed devotion. Your guilt will assure a spot on a pew for your church leaders.

Guilt and Shame are the Blood and Body of Christ. Not bread and watered down wine.

But, you are guilty of sin. You have probably sinned this week. Maybe even today. What is important to remember is you will sin again, and again, and again.

WHEN (not if) you do, you WILL feel shame and guilt. You cannot repent without these things. You will grovel for forgiveness. Wasted breath will grace your lips as you make promises of renewed devotion. Your guilt will assure a spot on a pew for your church leaders.

Guilt and Shame are the Blood and Body of Christ. Not bread and watered down wine.

You state opinion and bias as tho it were truth. "Guilt and shame" are the tools of exploiters, sincere disciples learn that the metaphor of the Blood and Body of Christ referes to the omnipresence of the divine. When one spills the blood of a beast or consumes the juice of a grape ....

Jesus said, "It is I who am the light which is above them all. It is I who am the all. From me did the all come forth, and unto me did the all extend. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."Gospel of Thomas: 77.

A sincere exponent of the truth would not twist words they would instead discover, there is to be no "Guilt" or "Shame".

Romans 8
1THEREFORE, [there is] now no condemnation (no adjudging guilty of wrong) for those who are in Christ Jesus, who live [and] walk not after the dictates of the flesh, but after the dictates of the Spirit.Amplified Bible

Cheers:)

A sincere exponent of the truth would not twist words they would instead discover, there is to be no "Guilt" or "Shame".

There exists uneccesary guilt and shame for most believers of Christ.

Whether or not you can find a passage or two, in the "good" book, that indicates this should not be so, is irrelevant.

What is relevant is the fact of the uneccesary guilt and shame that pervades the lives of most Christians. This is not bias nor opinion, just the way it is. If you cannot accept the way things are, feel free to delude yourself further.

There exists uneccesary guilt and shame for most believers of Christ.

Whether or not you can find a passage or two, in the "good" book, that indicates this should not be so, is irrelevant.

What is relevant is the fact of the uneccesary guilt and shame that pervades the lives of most Christians. This is not bias nor opinion, just the way it is. If you cannot accept the way things are, feel free to delude yourself further.

Delusion comes in many a guise! Is it delusion or deception to stereotype using terms such as "most Christians"?

Cheers:)

But, you are guilty of sin. You have probably sinned this week. Maybe even today. What is important to remember is you will sin again, and again, and again.

WHEN (not if) you do, you WILL feel shame and guilt. You cannot repent without these things. You will grovel for forgiveness. Wasted breath will grace your lips as you make promises of renewed devotion. Your guilt will assure a spot on a pew for your church leaders.

Guilt and Shame are the Blood and Body of Christ. Not bread and watered down wine.

Maybe so, but look at David. A man who comitted adultry, was a man after God's own heart. A man who sent another man's husband to the frontline of the battle, to his death, was a man after God's own heart. It's a heart attitude, not a sinful nature. It's how you keep your heart attitude with GOd.

Failure does not exist. Success and failure implies that we could redo the event that we supposedly failed. Time goes forward, and humans are not omnipotent (yet) so we cannot change this.

So what makes having sex (assuming std tests and protection) with another human a bad thing? There is no way god thinks this is a bad idea. Nvm: Yahweh says protection is bad be fruitful and multiply...

Delusion comes in many a guise! Is it delusion or deception to stereotype using terms such as "most Christians"?

Cheers:)

It is neither.
It is a simple stereotype that fits.
Are you suggesting most Christians do not feel guilt and shame over their sinful ways?

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And you tried so hard to be clever...

Cheers:)

Maybe so, but look at David. A man who comitted adultry, was a man after God's own heart. A man who sent another man's husband to the frontline of the battle, to his death, was a man after God's own heart. It's a heart attitude, not a sinful nature. It's how you keep your heart attitude with GOd.

And David was racked with guilt for his sinful ways, just as you are.

How your God feels about somebody means little to me. Read Romans chapter 9. Your God made his mind up about everyone of us.......before we were even born.

He will have mercy on those he has mercy, he will have compassion for those he will have compassion, he will hate those he hates, and love those he loves. He will do this before we are even concieved.

If God is real, and the bible true, God has clearly has no concept of good, fair or just.

It is neither.
It is a simple stereotype that fits.
Are you suggesting most Christians do not feel guilt and shame over their sinful ways?


Your simple stereotype is a dishonest, biased way of vilifying all christians, regardless of how they feel. Some people who call themselves christian may indeed feel guilt and shame, this is however not a necessary part of christianity. Fact is you are making an unsubstantiated claim in support of your own discrimanatory denials. In place of rational debate or constructive criticism, you dismiss valid evidence to the contrary preferring to continue with nonsense and ad hominems instead. Still, that fits with the character you wish to project as described earlier in this thread. Hope it makes you happy:D

Namaste:)

And David was racked with guilt for his sinful ways, just as you are.

How your God feels about somebody means little to me. Read Romans chapter 9. Your God made his mind up about everyone of us.......before we were even born.

He will have mercy on those he has mercy, he will have compassion for those he will have compassion, he will hate those he hates, and love those he loves. He will do this before we are even concieved.

If God is real, and the bible true, God has clearly has no concept of good, fair or just.

He didn't make up His mind.. He knew the beginning from the end. He knew everything you would do, say, think, be, before you knew it, before you chose it, and yet HE MADE THE WAY FOR YOU. That's His LOVE. You're getting a very RELIGIOUS doctrine there, buddy. I can show you scripture and take bits and pieces and make it form some UNDOCTRINAL, NON-CONTEXT religious junk too. You have no concept of none of the things you listed. Mercy and compassion.. Those sound GOOD to me.

Did you ever read the part in james where it tells you GOD IS ALL THINGS GOD, AND SATAN IS ALL THINGS BAD? It's simple. The reason you don't know the Messiah, is because you have no relationship with Him. I can say all these things, but you've pretty much made up your mind about what you're going to do. I can't change your decision. Neither can God. He can only knock. David was CONFIDENT, after he got over the condemnation and seen, had vision, of the coming Messiah. He reached over from OT Law, into NT Faith. He rejoiced in God's victory over sin, and death, and over his enemies. Which there was natural, and which we know to be spiritual.

It's the Spirit realm that effects the natural. It's what you allow and don't allow in your life. It's what you BELIEVE. It's what you live. David didn't stay down, His praise in the Messiah, and HOPE IN HIM, lifted him beyond His circumstances and over into faith, where God had the POWER to act in David's life in any way He chose. BECAUSE, David BELIEVED God. Abraham BELIEVED God. Without faith it is impossible to please God. For whoever comes to God must believe that HE IS, and that HE IS a REWARDER of those that DILIGENTLY seek Him out. God told Abraham, "I AM your exceeding great reward." The Messiah, in me, the Hope of Glory, IS my exceeding great reward. We had a guest minister in today, and I heard from the man of God and believed, and I'm fired up. I'm telling you what.. God is with me.

God is patient. God began this good work in me, and HE'S perfecting my faith. He's refining me as choice gold. I'm excited, because He's WITH me.

He didn't make up His mind.. He knew the beginning from the end. He knew everything you would do, say, think, be, before you knew it, before you chose it, and yet HE MADE THE WAY FOR YOU. That's His LOVE. You're getting a very RELIGIOUS doctrine there, buddy. I can show you scripture and take bits and pieces and make it form some UNDOCTRINAL, NON-CONTEXT religious junk too. You have no concept of none of the things you listed. Mercy and compassion.. Those sound GOOD to me.

Did you ever read the part in james where it tells you GOD IS ALL THINGS GOD, AND SATAN IS ALL THINGS BAD? It's simple. The reason you don't know the Messiah, is because you have no relationship with Him. I can say all these things, but you've pretty much made up your mind about what you're going to do. I can't change your decision. Neither can God. He can only knock. David was CONFIDENT, after he got over the condemnation and seen, had vision, of the coming Messiah. He reached over from OT Law, into NT Faith. He rejoiced in God's victory over sin, and death, and over his enemies. Which there was natural, and which we know to be spiritual.

It's the Spirit realm that effects the natural. It's what you allow and don't allow in your life. It's what you BELIEVE. It's what you live. David didn't stay down, His praise in the Messiah, and HOPE IN HIM, lifted him beyond His circumstances and over into faith, where God had the POWER to act in David's life in any way He chose. BECAUSE, David BELIEVED God. Abraham BELIEVED God. Without faith it is impossible to please God. For whoever comes to God must believe that HE IS, and that HE IS a REWARDER of those that DILIGENTLY seek Him out. God told Abraham, "I AM your exceeding great reward." The Messiah, in me, the Hope of Glory, IS my exceeding great reward. We had a guest minister in today, and I heard from the man of God and believed, and I'm fired up. I'm telling you what.. God is with me.

God is patient. God began this good work in me, and HE'S perfecting my faith. He's refining me as choice gold. I'm excited, because He's WITH me.

What does that have to do with overcoming failures? You think that believing and putting trust in god will get him to make you do the right thing? How is having the strength to put faith in god so he will in turn give you strength for doing things any different than just having the strength to do them yourself?

What does that have to do with overcoming failures? You think that believing and putting trust in god will get him to make you do the right thing? How is having the strength to put faith in god so he will in turn give you strength for doing things any different than just having the strength to do them yourself?

QFT..

What does that have to do with overcoming failures? You think that believing and putting trust in god will get him to make you do the right thing? How is having the strength to put faith in god so he will in turn give you strength for doing things any different than just having the strength to do them yourself?

You miss the whole simplicity of the Gospel of the Messiah. It's not about doing the right thing, it's about knowing who you are in Him and what He's done for you. What discovering what you were designed and created to do, and when you think like He does you'll act like He does. THAT'S why it's important for ANY believer in the WORD OF GOD to RENEW their minds, according to Romans 8:

He didn't make up His mind.. He knew the beginning from the end. He knew everything you would do, say, think, be, before you knew it, before you chose it, and yet HE MADE THE WAY FOR YOU.

What I take from Romans chapter 9, is that God is not all loving. That simple message is made quite clear. You no longer get to say that God is all loving, without tasting your own willful ignorance.

Okay, God is all knowing, and chooses to have mercy and compassion on those he WILL. Why does this need to be stated? This suggests that no amount of being a good person, or a good faithful Christian will grant you mercy or compassion from God, as it is his sole discretion.

Why put that in the bible? Because shit happens to everyone, and no amount of prayer or ritual will change that. This, coupled with a complete lack of magic and miracles in our world, suggest God is a lie, and if it wasnt stated the lie that is your religion would have come apart much sooner.

Another point, is that God knows everyone who will be born, what they will do, and ultimately if their soul will party with him in heaven, or be forced to sit in the corner in hell.

This raises a very important question: What is the point of life on Earth? Why have the grand and secret show that is life? Why not put the souls where they WILL belong, and save everyone a bit of trouble?

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You continue to accuse those opposed to your belief structure, as being ill-informed or ignorant of the simplistic concepts found in your ancient cannon. I believe your faith to be the rose colored glasses you choose to examine your book with. This makes you willfully ignorant to the numerous contradictions, fallacies, hypocrisies, and ignorance found within the pages of this book of Jewish folklore.

I once had faith. I understand the concepts of the Bible (without your rose colored glasses), and I believe there are good common sense things in there that help a person, as well as contribute to a good society. Unfortunately many of these are contradicted or thrown outright when light is shed on some of the less examined parts of this hateful books, but I digress. The point is that the simple painfully-obvious good concepts in the bible, are found more readily, and more easily understood, in Esop's Fables or Grimm's Fairy Tales.

Your faith is an now unnecessary vestige of an ancient world which people were trying to devolop a more unified society, in a time of rampant barbarism and lawlessness. It had outlived it's usefullness in that regard a thousand years before Jesus was born of a lying whore.

What I take from Romans chapter 9, is that God is not all loving. That simple message is made quite clear. You no longer get to say that God is all loving, without tasting your own willful ignorance.

Okay, God is all knowing, and chooses to have mercy and compassion on those he WILL. Why does this need to be stated? This suggests that no amount of being a good person, or a good faithful Christian will grant you mercy or compassion from God, as it is his sole discretion.

Why put that in the bible? Because shit happens to everyone, and no amount of prayer or ritual will change that. This, coupled with a complete lack of magic and miracles in our world, suggest God is a lie, and if it wasnt stated the lie that is your religion would have come apart much sooner.

Another point, is that God knows everyone who will be born, what they will do, and ultimately if their soul will party with him in heaven, or be forced to sit in the corner in hell.

This raises a very important question: What is the point of life on Earth? Why have the grand and secret show that is life? Why not put the souls where they WILL belong, and save everyone a bit of trouble?

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You continue to accuse those opposed to your belief structure, as being ill-informed or ignorant of the simplistic concepts found in your ancient cannon. I believe your faith to be the rose colored glasses you choose to examine your book with. This makes you willfully ignorant to the numerous contradictions, fallacies, hypocrisies, and ignorance found within the pages of this book of Jewish folklore.

I once had faith. I understand the concepts of the Bible (without your rose colored glasses), and I believe there are good common sense things in there that help a person, as well as contribute to a good society. Unfortunately many of these are contradicted or thrown outright when light is shed on some of the less examined parts of this hateful books, but I digress. The point is that the simple painfully-obvious good concepts in the bible, are found more readily, and more easily understood, in Esop's Fables or Grimm's Fairy Tales.

Your faith is an now unnecessary vestige of an ancient world which people were trying to devolop a more unified society, in a time of rampant barbarism and lawlessness. It had outlived it's usefullness in that regard a thousand years before Jesus was born of a lying whore.

Broke, My faith keeps me sain. My faith keeps me hoping. My faith keeps me going. My faith keeps me reaching. My faith keeps me living. My faith is my everything. It's real to me. If you know scriptures then you know that the Word says that there are those who have left the faith, but they wouldn't have if they were really one of 'us'.

Faith never dies. Neither does love. If you HAD faith, your faith was weak, because it didn't take much to break it. You let go, you didn't have substance to sustain you.

My faith keeps me from grabbing a knife and ending my life, at times.
My faith keeps me from hurting other people.
My faith drives me to love regardless.
My faith keeps me alive.

I want so badly to let you guys.. all of you, know everything about me. Not just my faith, but my humanity, and the things I face. I want to. I desire to, but It would make me vunerable, to hear what you have to say, and that's why I don't.

So, I lock myself away, and try my best to uphold my own, for you. For all of you, and for God, and for myself. There are things, that I don't understand, but I cling to what I know, until understanding is given. That's faith, and you have to find your own way too. The path you're on, where ever you are, points to the Messiah, if you'd examine closely enough, you'd see that yourself.

If you HAD faith, your faith was weak, because it didn't take much to break it. You let go, you didn't have substance to sustain you.

I DID have faith, of that I assure you. My faith was strong, but was weakened as I learned more about science and history. I realized the horrors religion has brought upon the world, the injustice, the suffering and I soon realized that I did not need these fantasies or delusions to keep me going.

I realized that God was not going to punish me, for not believing. I realized that everything the world throws at me, I will face on my own. I realized the voice of God, was my own.

You must have had these moments of clarity, or as you may call them, lapses of faith. I want you to know that you do not need a God, to make it happily through this world.

You do not need faith for any of these things:

My faith keeps me from grabbing a knife and ending my life, at times.
My faith keeps me from hurting other people.
My faith drives me to love regardless.
My faith keeps me alive.

Your instinct keeps you from hurting yourself or others. Should this instinct fail, humans have various tangible things in place to minimize the damage you inflict both to yourself and others........why do humans have these things in place? Because your God is absent.

It is a mistake to give everyone unconditional love. It is impossible for human beings to truly practice this. It is a rule that WILL be broken, BY ALL, so that you will feel guilty and reaffirm your faith.

Numerous tangible factors keep you alive. Your faith is a vestige of a primitive mind. It is not needed to have a happy and functioning life. Your faith is barely YOUR faith by choice.

I am willing to bet you are the same faith as your community and your parents. What are the odds you, like SO MANY others, were born into the CORRECT faith? I am willing to bet you were indoctrined to believe in invisible magical men in the sky, at an age when you still had imaginary friends.

I hardly think you get to call it your faith. It is your choice to hold on to it though, but the ideas are not yours, and you probably were not given a fair hand when those ideas were thrust upon you.

You miss the whole simplicity of the Gospel of the Messiah. It's not about doing the right thing, it's about knowing who you are in Him and what He's done for you. What discovering what you were designed and created to do, and when you think like He does you'll act like He does. THAT'S why it's important for ANY believer in the WORD OF GOD to RENEW their minds, according to Romans 8:

That would make sense to me, except that you seem to be intentionally avoiding summarizing these things as a decision and set of actions (which, to me, all the terms you used boil down to). Since that was the core of my own statement, and this is a critical response to it, I'm assuming that you're implying that these things do not count as being directly associated with the direction of your will. Since this is the central issue, and you didn't elaborate on it, I don't understand your position.

I DID have faith, of that I assure you. My faith was strong, but was weakened as I learned more about science and history. I realized the horrors religion has brought upon the world, the injustice, the suffering and I soon realized that I did not need these fantasies or delusions to keep me going.

I realized that God was not going to punish me, for not believing. I realized that everything the world throws at me, I will face on my own. I realized the voice of God, was my own.

You must have had these moments of clarity, or as you may call them, lapses of faith. I want you to know that you do not need a God, to make it happily through this world.

You do not need faith for any of these things:

My faith keeps me from grabbing a knife and ending my life, at times.
My faith keeps me from hurting other people.
My faith drives me to love regardless.
My faith keeps me alive.

Your instinct keeps you from hurting yourself or others. Should this instinct fail, humans have various tangible things in place to minimize the damage you inflict both to yourself and others........why do humans have these things in place? Because your God is absent.

It is a mistake to give everyone unconditional love. It is impossible for human beings to truly practice this. It is a rule that WILL be broken, BY ALL, so that you will feel guilty and reaffirm your faith.

Numerous tangible factors keep you alive. Your faith is a vestige of a primitive mind. It is not needed to have a happy and functioning life. Your faith is barely YOUR faith by choice.

I am willing to bet you are the same faith as your community and your parents. What are the odds you, like SO MANY others, were born into the CORRECT faith? I am willing to bet you were indoctrined to believe in invisible magical men in the sky, at an age when you still had imaginary friends.

I hardly think you get to call it your faith. It is your choice to hold on to it though, but the ideas are not yours, and you probably were not given a fair hand when those ideas were thrust upon you.

My yahoo ID is revivedcreation. I would like to talk to you in IM. I bet you, I'm not what my parents are... But I don't want to argue what knowledge they have of the Word of God either. If it's God's revelation to them, it'll stand. If not, when tried, it won't.

Hellz, I really like you I do. I used to read your posts a lot.

But it seems as you are washed in to a certain way of life that you are do not let your self veer from, or accept anything different.

You should not let these people judge you and remove you from prior duties because you may have done something morally wrong. Who are they to judge you, as I am sure they have their own demons. *That is the reason people judge, because they feel their sins are lesser than others, and feel like they are morally superior*

This whole evangelical thing has seemed to have completely ruined your life, although it may have seemed better, and you have felt accepted. You only felt accepted because you were being judged. The same reason you feel you are bold, and out going. You need to be accepted for what ever it may be.

That really isn't healthy.

Hellz, I really like you I do. I used to read your posts a lot.

But it seems as you are washed in to a certain way of life that you are do not let your self veer from, or accept anything different.

You should not let these people judge you and remove you from prior duties because you may have done something morally wrong. Who are they to judge you, as I am sure they have their own demons. *That is the reason people judge, because they feel their sins are lesser than others, and feel like they are morally superior*

This whole evangelical thing has seemed to have completely ruined your life, although it may have seemed better, and you have felt accepted. You only felt accepted because you were being judged. The same reason you feel you are bold, and out going. You need to be accepted for what ever it may be.

That really isn't healthy.


That's very offensively analytical. I don't really understand you last statement. Although I'll quickly inform you on this.. I don't care who does or does accept me. I really don't. I have my acceptance in Christ and that's all I need, but HUMILITY is key. If it means I have to travel down to the places we only look at from 'above' so be it. I will go there, and learn to relate to people love, LOVE! God is love.

I said that, but truthfully, the guy I'm seeing now, I'm so in love with, I think I would be crushed if he ever changed his mind about me, BUT I wouldn't hurt myself or anyone around me, I would just be harder the next time for me to let someone else in.

I don't care how good or bad you are, people always have opinions of you. In fact, that form an opinion within 15 seconds of seeing you, rather they realize it or not. IT'S TRUTH!! People are going to think good or bad of me, rather I think I'm good or bad. They will find faults, because it's a human default.

I like you too, just don't even try forming an analysis on me like that, unless it's strickly the Word of God.

*He who's easily puffed up is also easily deflated.* I'm typically not effected or affected by people's opinions. Not because I'm COLD, although it sometimes feels like that, but because I simply don't care. The future will unfold as I make my decisions. Hopefully, PRAYERFULLY, I'll learn from the things I've experienced, be softened in areas, and be hardened in areas that should be made to be so.