Ok, when I was about ten or eleven I went to a Pentecostal church. They were some weird folks, and the preacher regularly said things I knew were not true, even as a ten year old boy..

For example, it was in the times of the 2000 Presidential election and he literally said that if Al Gore was elected he would pull all of the children out of school except for his own, and try to stifle everyones beliefs and individuality.

He also had a Pokemon card burning event, saying that they were Satanic. He brainwashed all my friends at the church into burning their cards, and I just kept mine. I knew it was silly..

In this church, things were very atypical. Church ended at no designated time, we once had a 30 minute service and one time we had one that lasted over 5 hours. He claimed the lord would end it when he was ready. He talked about Demons floating around in the sanctuary and people would jump up and down waving flags that said some Hebrew phrase trying to "cut the demons from the air." or something to that effect.

also, (the subject of the thread) there were times that we would walk in on Sunday, and we would sing one song for an hour or more, with long drum interludes and shit, and preaching in the middle of it, and lots of dancing and speaking in tongues.

I, myself knew these people were very fucking weird and misguided. Our pastors name was "Commander Buck."

Anyway, I went to youth camp with this church and it was the weirdest thing ever, but that's besides the point. I learned that other "pentecostals" spoke in tongues too. Now I am agnostic and I still can't rationalize this in my mind.. Would they really just babble nonsense, basically lying to everyone to gain status? I mean it wasn't just the pastor, it was everyone in the sanctuary and they would get kids to do it. Pretty much every kid could do it except for me.. They would invoke the "tongues" by laying hands and speaking in tongues themselves and then magically the kid would say a little gibberish and fall to the ground.

Were these people all just lying? It makes no fucking sense to me that they would just pretend to speak in tongues..... It's just weird man.

I'm not church goer, as I don't like crowds much. The good things surrounding people getting together are all too likely to get mixed into a weird stew with the bad things. I'm too easily distracted/influenced? I don't have enough social armor.

I know that one of the few times I went to a P-church I spoke in tongues. It was very near the beginning of the service & the woman I was with admonished me, "You're only supposed to do that near the end of the service." ?

As if I had any control over it. It just came out, as I was a bit nervous/freaked by being in a church/crowd. It was echoed by a couple of other people. It was all over in a moment. It wasn't something I felt like repeating so I didn't go back.

Weird things happen to people in crowds. Strange primal things. I imagine that a lot of what people get out of being at big games/concerts is in that same weird ballpark? Without the dangerous topic of religion involved. Much safer.

As sports/concerts/firework displays are things people can get excited about, but they're mundane & uncontroversial.

Looking at my brain, as best I can just sitting here, I can feel all those pathways? Those brain channels? I'm not enough in control of them to want to chance Big Crowds. Other folks? They love that shit. I'm torn between, "Don't look at me! Leave me alone!" & my longing to lose my aloneness in the roaring crowd, "Look at me! Love me!"

It's one thing to be a part of an exciting crowd? You may imagine what performers get from being the Focus of Attention?! I can see a real love/hate relationship with that? Did Courtney do it or did Kurt just freak out from that "Crowd Shit"?

What would you do if from this night on: EVERYONE was watching you!?

Throws alcohol/Heroin into a whole new light just to think about it don't it? :D

I'm not church goer, as I don't like crowds much. The good things surrounding people getting together are all too likely to get mixed into a weird stew with the bad things. I'm too easily distracted/influenced? I don't have enough social armor.

I know that one of the few times I went to a P-church I spoke in tongues. It was very near the beginning of the service & the woman I was with admonished me, "You're only supposed to do that near the end of the service." ?

As if I had any control over it. It just came out, as I was a bit nervous/freaked by being in a church/crowd. It was echoed by a couple of other people. It was all over in a moment. It wasn't something I felt like repeating so I didn't go back.

Weird things happen to people in crowds. Strange primal things. I imagine that a lot of what people get out of being at big games/concerts is in that same weird ballpark? Without the dangerous topic of religion involved. Much safer.

As sports/concerts/firework displays are things people can get excited about, but they're mundane & uncontroversial.

Looking at my brain, as best I can just sitting here, I can feel all those pathways? Those brain channels? I'm not enough in control of them to want to chance Big Crowds. Other folks? They love that shit. I'm torn between, "Don't look at me! Leave me alone!" & my longing to lose my aloneness in the roaring crowd, "Look at me! Love me!"

It's one thing to be a part of an exciting crowd? You may imagine what performers get from being the Focus of Attention?! I can see a real love/hate relationship with that? Did Courtney do it or did Kurt just freak out from that "Crowd Shit"?

What would you do if from this night on: EVERYONE was watching you!?

Throws alcohol/Heroin into a whole new light just to think about it don't it? :D


I am spirit-filled, I do speak in tongues. Later I'll go into it, right now, it'll just take too much time and I'm limited. I have somethings I needa do.

I am spirit-filled, I do speak in tongues. Later I'll go into it, right now, it'll just take too much time and I'm limited. I have somethings I needa do.

You babble at the top of your lungs. This energizes you b/c it is outside of social norm and acceptance. Behaving in this unorthadoxed manner, rips you out of your comfort zone; rips you from your feelings of normalness.

This new feeling is then attributed to a God.

Have your whole congregation wear underwear on the outside of their clothes, and you will recieve the same feeling. It is nothing more than creating a feeling of being outside the norm. It is an invigorating feeling. It is something new.

I'd say it wasn't completely involuntary... I was looking inside myself a bit & I felt apart from the congregation & *Bang* I was speaking in tongues. I didn't particularly want the attention or to get closer to those people I didn't know.

So I walled it off & when others spoke the tonguish at the end of the service? It was a closed door to me. It's not something that interests me. I don't know if I was in the right frame of mind & in a crowd that was doing a lot of it whether I would too?

I don't care to put myself to the test.

Ask me again...when Armageddon comes. :)

You babble at the top of your lungs. This energizes you b/c it is outside of social norm and acceptance. Behaving in this unorthadoxed manner, rips you out of your comfort zone; rips you from your feelings of normalness.

This new feeling is then attributed to a God.

Have your whole congregation wear underwear on the outside of their clothes, and you will recieve the same feeling. It is nothing more than creating a feeling of being outside the norm. It is an invigorating feeling. It is something new.

Dude, Let me tell you something. I am NOT a shy person. I'm very bold. Not only in manners of speaking, but in every area of my life. I'm the type of person you don't DARE to do anything, or say I won't do it, because I'll do just about anything for 'craps and giggles'. I like to make people laugh. Because it may be the only laugh they get for the day, week, or year.

Speakin in tongue, I was raised around it. It's nothing new to me, but there are religions that don't simply because they don't understand it, and because they don't they limit God by their own LIMITED understanding.

Paul said, "I thank God that I pray in tongues more than you all."
Paul also said, "Be filled with the Spirit."
There's so much praying in tongues does that will never make sense to your natural limited ability to understand. It's a heavenly language given to YOU. That the SPIRIT of God IN you understands, in way that your natural understanding can not convey, when you're feeling like you feel, or thinking what you think. You get answers by praying in tongues. "The Spirit itself makes supplications with groanings and utterings that can't be uttered." It's not something you fake. It's something you can start out with in the natural until you get over into the Spirit, and then you let the Spirit of God take over from there, and every now and then you may know what you're praying in the spirit and start giving natural declarations to those things with words you do understand. It's cooperating with God. You getting in a place to hear from God by His Spirit, and you speaking to God by Your spirit. It's prayer. Prayer is communion. When you commune it isn't just you speaking. It's you and another. Speaking, listening, being hear, and taking direction/instruction. I'm a FIRM believer in prayer.

I've seen it work in MY LIFE, I've seen it work ON A DAILY, when I was praying like I should have been. There's no power greater than the power of prayer.

One man said, "It appears that God can do nothing unless asked to."

You see this over and over again in scriptures, from prophet to prophet.
From Abraham to the Messiah. From the Messiah to ALL 120 in the Church of Acts. From the Church of Acts to NOW.

"You have not, because you ask not, and when you do ask, you ask that you may consume it upon your own lusts."

Can I ever hear you if you don't speak to me? If you're not speaking to me, would I speak? If I did speak when you aren't listening for me to, would you acknowledge my voice?

Come on!!

I don't really like to open to spiritual side of me up to people. For two reasons..
-People either think they know and don't want to hear, because they know.
-Or, they don't recieve what's so real to you, and cherish it like you do.

yiggidy yarg woooble bloobedy bloaduoua!

There's so much praying in tongues does that will never make sense to your natural limited ability to understand. It's a heavenly language given to YOU. That the SPIRIT of God IN you understands, in way that your natural understanding can not convey, when you're feeling like you feel, or thinking what you think. You get answers by praying in tongues.

I have heard it. It is nonsensical babble.

Do you loudly pray in tongues by yourself I wonder? I doubt most tongue speakers do so in their personal alone time with God.

That is b/c it is part of the mass hysteria, of mentally ill people, wasting a perfectly good Sunday or Saturday. It is part of an hour long SHOW. That is all it is. It is akin to being slain in the spirit and other such hysterics.

If tongues is more effective, please show me how people of your faith have more prayers answered by God...........

Thought so.

I have heard it. It is nonsensical babble.

Do you loudly pray in tongues by yourself I wonder? I doubt most tongue speakers do so in their personal alone time with God.

That is b/c it is part of the mass hysteria, of mentally ill people, wasting a perfectly good Sunday or Saturday. It is part of an hour long SHOW. That is all it is. It is akin to being slain in the spirit and other such hysterics.

If tongues is more effective, please show me how people of your faith have more prayers answered by God...........

Thought so.

Please come to Murfreesboro, Tn. Please come to Barfield Elementary and attend Word and Spirit Church. Please get in this atmosphere, and hear what the Man of God says. You'll see PRAYER, and FAITH in action. BRING IT ON SISTA GIRL!

.. Thought so..

yiggidy yarg woooble bloobedy bloaduoua!

You fool--it's "yiggidy YARGLE woooble. . . ." Ahem.

Seriously, the whole speaking in tongues thing is one of the more interesting manifestations of religious nuttery--no offense intended.

I would find the phenomenon more credible if there was anything resembling actual communication going on--like if one tonguer would babble something and another tonguer would be like "yeah, right" and babble something back.

Then again, people in the throes of religious ecstacy are not exactly known for eschewing obfuscation.

Well, the power of god, our emotions, and whatever else goes on inside the parts of our brains we don't ever think about, is far beyond the limits of the English language. Quoting Waking Life, words are just symbols, they're dead. Speaking in tongues is trying best to kill the middle man between speech and god (which is language and logic)


btw my aunt is pentecostal, I've been to their church once and it just freaks me out. Reeks of incest too. Small harbor town.

Please come to Murfreesboro, Tn. Please come to Barfield Elementary and attend Word and Spirit Church. Please get in this atmosphere, and hear what the Man of God says. You'll see PRAYER, and FAITH in action. BRING IT ON SISTA GIRL!

.. Thought so..

Prayer in action, huh? What does that mean? That God answers prayer on the spot?

No, I will see a bunch of deluded people engage in hysterics for an hour, with the end result being a bunch of excited invigorated people. I will see plenty madmen renew their insanity at the foot of a man who "works" a couple hours a week.

I hope you do not wake your neighbors at night, when by yourself, you pray to God in tongues. I will assume you pray just as loud and long, as you cannot control the swelling faith inside you, and it is released in magical language.

No, you pray like every other Christian when you are by yourself. When in the group and your leader gives the okay, everyone pretends that something magical is happening, and begins speaking in a magical spirit language.

It is a show, and not a very good one.

Version by Incubus. Listen to the end. Enjoy.

I can imagine how hilarious a situation in church can be when I AM speaking in tongues:

garble garble- Nigga's love chikinz -garble garble- Jews did 9/11 -garble :)

Linguists have studied the "tongues" in which these people speak, only to discover that they're nothing more than incoherent babbling. It should be noted that these "tongues" are scientifically proven to be less real than fucking Klingonese.

Diputs era slatsocetnep.

Linguists have studied the "tongues" in which these people speak, only to discover that they're nothing more than incoherent babbling. It should be noted that these "tongues" are scientifically proven to be less real than fucking Klingonese.

And in other news, new research from NASA indicates that the sky is blue.

And in other news, new research from NASA indicates that the sky is blue.

More related news: The United States Geological Survey concluded April 28, 2008 that earthquakes cause the ground to shake.

And in other news, new research from NASA indicates that the sky is blue.

Does NASA airbrush their pictures?

Does NASA airbrush their pictures?

Only the moons bases. ;)

I've seen it work in MY LIFE, I've seen it work ON A DAILY, when I was praying like I should have been. There's no power greater than the power of suggestion.


indeed

Language Center of the Brain Is Not Under the Control of Subjects Who “Speak in Tongues”:

Newswise — Glossolalia, otherwise referred to as “speaking in tongues,” has been around for thousands of years, and references to it can be found in the Old and New Testament. Speaking in tongues is an unusual mental state associated with specific religious traditions. The individual appears to be speaking in an incomprehensible language, yet perceives it to have great personal meaning. Now, in a first of its kind study, scientists are shining the light on this mysterious practice -- attempting to explain what actually happens physiologically to the brain of someone while speaking in tongues.

Researchers at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine have discovered decreased activity in the frontal lobes, an area of the brain associated with being in control of one’s self. This pioneering study, involving functional imaging of the brain while subjects were speaking in tongues, is in the November issue of Psychiatry Research: Neuroimaging, the official publication of the International Society for Neuroimaging in Psychiatry.

Radiology investigators observed increased or decreased brain activity - by measuring regional cerebral blood flow with SPECT (Single Photon Emission Computed Tomography) imaging - while the subjects were speaking in tongues. They then compared the imaging to what happened to the brain while the subjects sang gospel music.

“We noticed a number of changes that occurred functionally in the brain,” comments Principal Investigator Andrew Newberg, MD, Associate Professor of Radiology, Psychiatry, and Religious Studies, and Director for the Center for Spirituality and the Mind, at Penn. “Our finding of decreased activity in the frontal lobes during the practice of speaking in tongues is fascinating because these subjects truly believe that the spirit of God is moving through them and controlling them to speak. Our brain imaging research shows us that these subjects are not in control of the usual language centers during this activity, which is consistent with their description of a lack of intentional control while speaking in tongues.”

Newberg went on to explain, “These findings could be interpreted as the subject’s sense of self being taken over by something else. We, scientifically, assume it’s being taken over by another part of the brain, but we couldn’t see, in this imaging study, where this took place. We believe this is the first scientific imaging study evaluating changes in cerebral activity -- looking at what actually happens to the brain -- when someone is speaking in tongues. This study also showed a number of other changes in the brain, including those areas involved in emotions and establishing our sense of self.”

Newberg concludes that the changes in the brain during speaking in tongues reflect a complex pattern of brain activity. Newberg suggests that since this is the first study to explore this, future studies will be needed to confirm these findings in an attempt to demystify this fascinating religious phenomenon.

This preliminary study, done only at Penn, examined five subjects in a laboratory setting. The study, set for publication in the November issue of Psychiatry Research: Neuroimaging, can now be accessed on-line at http://www.sciencedirect.com. The article is titled, “The Measurement of Regional Cerebral Blood Flow During Glossolalia: a Preliminary SPECT Study.” Co-authors include: Nancy Wintering, Donna Morgan, and Mark Waldman.

PDF of the study and images available upon request.
Suggested caption: “From a new brain imaging study at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine, SPECT scans were taken of subjects while worshiping versus speaking in tongues. The speaking in tongue images primarily show a decrease of brain activity in the frontal lobes, which is what normally makes us feel as if we’re in control. There was also a decrease in activity in the left basal ganglia, which is involved with focusing attention and emotional responses. Finally, the thalamus activity increased during speaking in tongues which supports it is an active state of the brain.”
Please courtesy images: “Courtesy: University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine.”

Dr. Newberg is the director of the new Center for Spirituality and the Mind at PENN. To learn more, go on-line to: http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/radiology/CSM/index.html or email mindreligion@uphs.upenn.edu. Through the collaboration of distinguished scholars from the University of Pennsylvania, the interdisciplinary group works to promote future research and scholarly dialogue on the mind, religion and ethics.

PENN Medicine is a $2.9 billion enterprise dedicated to the related missions of medical education, biomedical research, and high-quality patient care. PENN Medicine consists of the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine (founded in 1765 as the nation's first medical school) and the University of Pennsylvania Health System.

Penn's School of Medicine is ranked #2 in the nation for receipt of NIH research funds; and ranked #3 in the nation in U.S. News & World Report's most recent ranking of top research-oriented medical schools. Supporting 1,400 fulltime faculty and 700 students, the School of Medicine is recognized worldwide for its superior education and training of the next generation of physician-scientists and leaders of academic medicine.

The University of Pennsylvania Health System includes three hospitals, all of which have received numerous national patient-care honors [Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania; Pennsylvania Hospital, the nation's first hospital; and Penn Presbyterian Medical Center]; a faculty practice plan; a primary-care provider network.

http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/524795/

yiggidy yarg woooble bloobedy bloaduoua!

A-wop-bop-a-loo-lop a-lop bam boo?

Ok, when I was about ten or eleven I went to a Pentecostal church. They were some weird folks, and the preacher regularly said things I knew were not true, even as a ten year old boy..

For example, it was in the times of the 2000 Presidential election and he literally said that if Al Gore was elected he would pull all of the children out of school except for his own, and try to stifle everyones beliefs and individuality.

He also had a Pokemon card burning event, saying that they were Satanic. He brainwashed all my friends at the church into burning their cards, and I just kept mine. I knew it was silly..

In this church, things were very atypical. Church ended at no designated time, we once had a 30 minute service and one time we had one that lasted over 5 hours. He claimed the lord would end it when he was ready. He talked about Demons floating around in the sanctuary and people would jump up and down waving flags that said some Hebrew phrase trying to "cut the demons from the air." or something to that effect.

also, (the subject of the thread) there were times that we would walk in on Sunday, and we would sing one song for an hour or more, with long drum interludes and shit, and preaching in the middle of it, and lots of dancing and speaking in tongues.

I, myself knew these people were very fucking weird and misguided. Our pastors name was "Commander Buck."

Anyway, I went to youth camp with this church and it was the weirdest thing ever, but that's besides the point. I learned that other "pentecostals" spoke in tongues too. Now I am agnostic and I still can't rationalize this in my mind.. Would they really just babble nonsense, basically lying to everyone to gain status? I mean it wasn't just the pastor, it was everyone in the sanctuary and they would get kids to do it. Pretty much every kid could do it except for me.. They would invoke the "tongues" by laying hands and speaking in tongues themselves and then magically the kid would say a little gibberish and fall to the ground.

Were these people all just lying? It makes no fucking sense to me that they would just pretend to speak in tongues..... It's just weird man.

From what I understand, when someone is speaking in tongues, it is a message directly from god, then after the person is done speaking, another person translates it to everyone else present. It isn't supposed to be something you can just do or learn to do, either for the person speaking in tongues or the translator. It is possible that some people would try to fake it just to make a show or feel important or whatever else they may get out of it. I am not really sure exactly what I believe on this subject but...I have seen it happen and it didn't appear to have been faked. Also it is mentioned in the bible. The church you were at appeared to be full of total nut cases...

The church you were at appeared to be full of total nut cases...

That's somewhat of a standing rule for Pentecostals.

One of my room mates at College this year was as Pentecostal as they come. His Uncle took him to a "tounge talkers" church and his faith started from there. He fully belives in spiritual healing and the rest of the shit that comes with the big P.

My only wish is that I knew more about Psychology so I could study and analyze why people are so into this. Can anyone point me in the direction of a few good articles that explain this phenomenon? Theres probably a few good ones on JSTOR but I can only get to that on campus.

One of my room mates at College this year was as Pentecostal as they come. His Uncle took him to a "tounge talkers" church and his faith started from there. He fully belives in spiritual healing and the rest of the shit that comes with the big P.

My only wish is that I knew more about Psychology so I could study and analyze why people are so into this. Can anyone point me in the direction of a few good articles that explain this phenomenon? Theres probably a few good ones on JSTOR but I can only get to that on campus.

A good place to start would be abnormal psychology, most notably "delusions of influence". This ties into the bicameralism mind theory, which is facinating and if proven true, provides vast insight into the origin of religion altogether.

The principles of mass hysteria, are also good to understand.

Rituals have but one real purpose, to draw people out of social norms in order to elicit an emotional reaction.

I can imagine sitting in a church full of excited people, speaking in tongues, shouting, praising, being slain in the spirit, working themselves into a frenzy and think to myself "There is something facinating going on here". I may even allow myself to think "A great spirit must be at work here".

Until I realize that I can get the same feeling at an important English Soccer game, or an amazing concert. I get the same feeling before an event as 10,000 people stand, stare at the same object, engage in the same movements (taking off hat, hand over heart) and listen to the same simple words.

Yes, and HellzShellz, you also play with snakes. Or some of you do.

Don't use Tennessee as an example of a place were god is. That is plain ignorance. The only thing you really did was start the acceptance of women as church heads. I bet you also are a fan of the 700 club.

Do you know what the tounges you speak mean?
and if so are they the same as others.

I know about the whole paul, and acts2 shit. People who put faith is silly rituals as it bringing them closer to god piss me off. If this is true than I can say when I get in to a really good vibe on my guitar and start to jam I am having a religious experience, although I am not doing it in the name of god but something of a vibe that sounds good.

Me playing on my guitar is my new way of talking to god. Eh?

except that God is dead

There's an excerpt from the article linked in this thread (http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2120771) about one outsider's observation regarding a congregation speaking in tongues. It's worth the read.

Me playing on my guitar is my new way of talking to god. Eh?

Stevie Ray Vaughn used to say the same thing. And if you've ever seen one of his live solos, it looks like God talked back! He seemed absolutely possessed with something.

Playing with snakes....babbling nonsense....retarded rules and ethics(burning japanese trading card game pieces and thinking they're satanic? Come on!)...drinking stric(sp?) 9 which is an accumulative poison...

What the fuck? The undoubtedly large numbers of people who have died following this primitive sect deserved it simply because of their stupidity. I don't care if you think this jesus fellow or "god" or whoever is going to keep you alive...that doesn't mean you should try it out!!! Fuck...someone really needs to chlorinate the gene pool.

...ilikedots.....