I haven't been in here for a while, and I quickly reminded myself why : D.

Anyway, I think that people need to think of omnipotence in a broader light. If there's a god, it's usually assumed that he/her/it is omnipotent. What I don't like is when people say, "God doesn't exist because God is all powerful, and if God was all powerful then God would stop all suffering and buy me a puppy." Just because a supreme being is omnipotent doesn't mean he has to give a fuck. Also, when a being is omnipotent, it's usually assumed he is omniscient as well. Since he knows everything and is infinitely intelligent, I think that it's pretty stupid to believe you can really know his nature/what he wants/how he thinks/why he does anything.

Just because a supreme being is omnipotent doesn't mean he has to give a fuck.

True. That's no problem if you're simply a theologian.

But if that is the case, then he is not benevolent; thus, is not worthy of praise.

Also, when a being is omnipotent, it's usually assumed he is omniscient as well. Since he knows everything and is infinitely intelligent, I think that it's pretty stupid to believe you can really know his nature/what he wants/how he thinks/why he does anything.

you're/very/smart/dude :rolleyes:

But if that is the case, then he is not benevolent; thus, is not worthy of praise.


See, I don't think you can know that either.

See, I don't think you can know that either.

Your failure to comprehend doesn't undermine my argument.

Your failure to comprehend doesn't undermine my argument.

If he's omnipotent, couldn't he just as well defy practicality and allow suffering, pain, torture, sin, etc. all to exist while maintaining benevolence? After all...I don't think you're quite all-powerful if your godliness is hinged on the understanding of a human (100% of which are innately stupid).

If he's omnipotent, couldn't he just as well defy practicality and allow suffering, pain, torture, sin, etc. all to exist while maintaining benevolence? After all...I don't think you're quite all-powerful if your godliness is hinged on the understanding of a human (100% of which are innately stupid).

Thank you, this is exactly the kind of thing that's in my train of thought.

OP, welcome back, and I hope you stay.

Back to topic, more and more of us are not defining God in the old, Piscean Age way. To me and many others, God is not an entity, not some invisible friend in the sky or some super-Santa Claus who makes a list of who's naughty and who's nice. That is a very limitng conception of him/her/it/them/whatever. (It is unfortunate that Hebrew has no neuter pronoun, which is why we tend to speak of God as He in the first place. But I digress.)

First of all, God is by definition infinite--our minds are very finite. Thus, we can never grok God in fullness. But put quite simply, God is everything. (This is pretty much what many mystics and shamans and saints and weird holy men have been saying for millennia. More recently, the Sufi branch of Muslim--may their tribe increase!--has adopted this comncept as part of their dogma.)

Less simply, God is the sentient and loving creative energy/information that creates and sustains the local universe. For convenience, most of us just say "God" even though this leads to misunderstanding.

To put it another way-- "You are the eyes with which God looks, and the mind through which God understands itself." (Stephen Gaskin)

Thing is, we have two wonderful things--eternal life and free will. Things are the way they are because we as a species chooses that it be so. And whatever pains and ills we inflcit upon ourselves now in the short run (one lifetime) do not matter in the long run, the long run being eternity.

OP, welcome back, and I hope you stay.

Back to topic, more and more of us are not defining God in the old, Piscean Age way. To me and many others, God is not an entity, not some invisible friend in the sky or some super-Santa Claus who makes a list of who's naughty and who's nice. That is a very limitng conception of him/her/it/them/whatever. (It is unfortunate that Hebrew has no neuter pronoun, which is why we tend to speak of God as He in the first place. But I digress.)

First of all, God is by definition infinite--our minds are very finite. Thus, we can never grok God in fullness. But put quite simply, God is everything. (This is pretty much what many mystics and shamans and saints and weird holy men have been saying for millennia. More recently, the Sufi branch of Muslim--may their tribe increase!--has adopted this comncept as part of their dogma.)

Less simply, God is the sentient and loving creative energy/information that creates and sustains the local universe. For convenience, most of us just say "God" even though this leads to misunderstanding.

To put it another way-- "You are the eyes with which God looks, and the mind through which God understands itself." (Stephen Gaskin)

Thing is, we have two wonderful things--eternal life and free will. Things are the way they are because we as a species chooses that it be so. And whatever pains and ills we inflcit upon ourselves now in the short run (one lifetime) do not matter in the long run, the long run being eternity.

I definitely respect your opinion, cuz you're hella old, so you've thought more deeply longer about all this than most of the rest of us. I'm definitely not worried about you thinking about God in too simplistic of terms.

Thanks, but shit, I'm not THAT old. Sixty is the new forty, you know.

I feel a lot younger now than I did thirty years ago.

Thanks, but shit, I'm not THAT old. Sixty is the new forty, you know.

I feel a lot younger now than I did thirty years ago.

Well, we're all just a part of the eternity that is anyway, right? I'm kinda thinking that there's not going to be eternity for the human race, what with the sun running out of gas, or, on a longer time scale, the universe imploding back on itself.

If my spirit lives forever, cool. If worms eat the last remnants of my existence, cool. I'm not really concerned about what comes after this life, I'm more concerned with the here and now. Enjoy it the best I can...a happy human is a better human; miserable pricks don't help anyone.

If my spirit lives forever, cool. If worms eat the last remnants of my existence, cool. I'm not really concerned about what comes after this life, I'm more concerned with the here and now. Enjoy it the best I can...a happy human is a better human; miserable pricks don't help anyone.

I don't know, as much as people think that "hell" is just a boogeyman to scare you into doing 'good', a hell would still suck balls.

Yes, nobody should second guess a belief structure that wields immense power the world over, AND that has zero evidence.

I will expect the same courtesy from you when I tell you my belief:

I belief we are all particles of an immense fart cloud, farted by a god-like being. I dont think this creature is even aware of us as more than just a foul odor. Even now he reaches for a can of oust and our universe will cease to be.

To honor this grand event, on Sunday morning, my church eats plenty of beans and brocolli and farts in each other's mouths. When we meet someone we identify ourselves as fartinians by loudly and apruptly farting and waffing the stench in the other's direction.

Our holy days are the same as yours except on Shitmas we decorate our trees with feces from the best livestock we can find. On Easter morning we hide dog terds that have turned white all about the yard and have the children go look for them, to place in their Toliet bowl shaped baskets.

The Grand Fart as well as the mysterious Farter are omnipotent, omnipresent, hell, they are omni-everything. So please do not question my belief, nor my God.

May the fart be with you, my son.

Praise shit.

^Aww, Christianity got you down?

." Just because a supreme being is omnipotent doesn't mean he has to give a fuck.

You're right. It's just that people usually don't like gods that "don't give a fuck". They like to think about gods that do.

If you and your religion want to say that your god is an asshole that doesn't give a fuck, then awesome! That's a great big reason not to worship the him/it, on top of the countless other reasons like... there is no evidence of such a god, the concept of a god is superflous, there are problems with omniscience and omnipotence... etc.

^Aww, Christianity got you down?

Not really...the inability for someone to grasp their own hypocrisy or foolishness does.

How's the trolling going today, Obbe?

They feeding you well?