First off, I'd like to say that I don't think any of you will really understand where I'm coming from, much less agree with me, but whatever. I'm used to that.

There is a tendency for many so called "religious" folks to believe in a persona they call "God". Now, most people do not question God, they believe in absolute obedience and submission to Mr. God. This means that rarely do people take the time to actually consider what they see God as, outside of what they're being spoon fed. Obviously you'll get the standard, "all powerful, all loving, all knowing, all merciful" etc. However, this is just a description of qualities, not the essence itself. You might as well say, "Rizzo has X amount of posts, listens to punk music, etc". Does that tell you who I am? Not really.

Now, for the main point. This degenerated generation of humanity has reduced God from being an abstract, impersonal force that permeates anything and everything and is ultimately responsible for every action, to merely being the head honcho of the ultimate tribe. This is absolutely the only way most people can understand "God", because their consciousness has never ventured outside of the realm of daily-activities (or in Castaneda terms, the "first attention"). For those of you familiar with Leary's 8 circuit model of consciousness, what I'm saying is that people see God at the level of the 2nd circuit, because they have never been able to experience the 5th, 6th, 7th, or 8th circuits of consciousness.

If you don't judge my idea one way or another, but look around at how people talk about God, you'll most likely see that I am right. People will often refer to God as an "asshole", or maybe God got you out of some "shit" (he saved yr "ass"). The terms "ass", "shit", "stuff", "things" - etc, they all deal with the 2nd circuit. I mean, look at the title of this forum!

Delve into it. You'll see that you look at God as just another politician. You criticize his policies, question whether he is actually even in power, consider over throwing him...Never do you see him as a truly abstract, impersonal force that is INSIDE of you, part of you, making you even say the words you are saying now...

If such a thing is truly abstract, why give it a name?

If such a thing is truly abstract, why give it a name?

It is part of human nature to take inventories and try to explain the mystery of the universe away.

Welcome to the God of the new paradigm. Although to say that would be sort of misleading as God has always existed and will continue to do so. It is just now more and more people are reading Chopra and the like and choosing to experience God as such. We are spirit and so too is God, in one.

Originally written by Lao Tzu:

The Tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.

The unnamable is the eternally real.
Naming is the origin
of all particular things.

Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.

Yet mystery and manifestations
arise from the same source.
This source is called darkness.

Darkness within darkness.
The gateway to all understanding.

For those who don't know, Tao basically is a synonym for God. It's the incomprehensible, unnamable force that runs everything. I couldn't possibly describe it any better than this.

It is part of human nature to take inventories and try to explain the mystery of the universe away.

It's also almost inagruably true that it's in human's nature to destroy ourselves.

I don't think your viewpoint is at all unique...

Delve into it. You'll see that you look at God as just another politician. You criticize his policies, question whether he is actually even in power, consider over throwing him...Never do you see him as a truly abstract, impersonal force that is INSIDE of you, part of you, making you even say the words you are saying now...

Very good way of putting it.

I don't think your viewpoint is at all unique...

Never said it was.

First off, I'd like to say that I don't think any of you will really understand where I'm coming from, much less agree with me, but whatever. I'm used to that.


.....

.....

Where did I say that what I said was unique?

Plenty of people don't understand Nietzsche, or Jesus, or Blake.

If we take "god" as simply the energy in the universe, then we may not as well even speak of god as existing...since we already know "all the energy in the universe" exists and need no superfluous labeling...thus atheism.

If, on the other hand, you take "god" as all the energy in the universe + some magical consciousness which exists without a brain....well I don't know what to say other than you don't understand the source of this so-called consciousness....and that it doesn't really exist at all other than as a label.

It is part of human nature to take inventories and try to explain the mystery of the universe away.

Then isn't it natural to treat God in the way you describe as being the wrong way? :\

Welcome to the God of the new paradigm. Although to say that would be sort of misleading as God has always existed and will continue to do so. It is just now more and more people are reading Chopra and the like and choosing to experience God as such. We are spirit and so too is God, in one.

Well said, and seconded here. This is one of the most important things I try to get across too, especially when I am addressing atheists--who reject the notion of a God which is nothing like the God that many of us know and experience on a daily basis.

Well said, and seconded here. This is one of the most important things I try to get across too, especially when I am addressing atheists--who reject the notion of a God which is nothing like the God that many of us know and experience on a daily basis.

Is it a left vs right brain way of viewing God? The question comes about as a result of learning about kids with 'disabilities', like ADD etc. When it comes to teaching these children the traditional left brain methods do not work. Left brain methods include collating lots of information, then adding it all up to see the bigger picture. The right brain sees the bigger picture and if not understood will then look to break it down into individual parts.

Left brain methods work for things like maths where one is able to add all the factors up and get a concrete answer. This is what many anti-theists seem to want, concrete evidence. Thing is, is it possible to add up infinity? How could it be? How then is one to form the big picture and understand abstract concepts?

The right brain 'sees' the bigger picture, enough for some, others have to break it down into bits. However the only way to add up infinity is to do it from the top down, that is start with a negative infinity add to a positive infinity and what do you get? Is it zero? Theoretically perhaps, but is the sum of infinite reality in fact 'one thing'?

First off, I'd like to say that I don't think any of you will really understand where I'm coming from, much less agree with me, but whatever. I'm used to that.

There is a tendency for many so called "religious" folks to believe in a persona they call "God". Now, most people do not question God, they believe in absolute obedience and submission to Mr. God. This means that rarely do people take the time to actually consider what they see God as, outside of what they're being spoon fed. Obviously you'll get the standard, "all powerful, all loving, all knowing, all merciful" etc. However, this is just a description of qualities, not the essence itself. You might as well say, "Rizzo has X amount of posts, listens to punk music, etc". Does that tell you who I am? Not really.

Now, for the main point. This degenerated generation of humanity has reduced God from being an abstract, impersonal force that permeates anything and everything and is ultimately responsible for every action, to merely being the head honcho of the ultimate tribe. This is absolutely the only way most people can understand "God", because their consciousness has never ventured outside of the realm of daily-activities (or in Castaneda terms, the "first attention"). For those of you familiar with Leary's 8 circuit model of consciousness, what I'm saying is that people see God at the level of the 2nd circuit, because they have never been able to experience the 5th, 6th, 7th, or 8th circuits of consciousness.

If you don't judge my idea one way or another, but look around at how people talk about God, you'll most likely see that I am right. People will often refer to God as an "asshole", or maybe God got you out of some "shit" (he saved yr "ass"). The terms "ass", "shit", "stuff", "things" - etc, they all deal with the 2nd circuit. I mean, look at the title of this forum!

Delve into it. You'll see that you look at God as just another politician. You criticize his policies, question whether he is actually even in power, consider over throwing him...Never do you see him as a truly abstract, impersonal force that is INSIDE of you, part of you, making you even say the words you are saying now...

This is the picture of ignorance that organized religion and government paints for the human race so we can keep our minds permanently fixated on our daily tasks, being slaves for our governments and economic systems. This is the ignorant path of thinking that destroys civilizations, and will hopefully correct itself one day before it destroys the human race.

The problem with the circuts is that in order to get above 4 you need drugs.

And although I don't mind, I think that God or what not might have a problem with this as it is only a chemical to affect your conciousness, not your sub conciousness.

The problem with the circuts is that in order to get above 4 you need drugs.

And although I don't mind, I think that God or what not might have a problem with this as it is only a chemical to affect your conciousness, not your sub conciousness.

I am seriously not seeing your logic at all. What do you mean by subconsciousness? Do you mean the part of the brain that keeps track of all the bodily processes and functions that keep us alive? Why would you want to affect that? Or do you mean your spirit, in which case, affecting that with something in this dimension is probably impossible, unless that substance is DMT, who knows?

The problem with the circuts is that in order to get above 4 you need drugs.


No you don't, there are all kinds of different methods.

I've seen your posts around these and similar topics...you've definitely got it. Now I'd be completely OK with people viewing god as this separate entity, except for one thing: They remove all their power, and all their ability to change their life, and put it in his hands. Christians for example..seem to worship Jesus, and not the message he brought? WTF.

I know a lot of unhappy Christians, who pray for change and never receive it. I've been trying to teach them the richer, broader truth of things, but it's really hard to get them to believe they are a part of God as much as anything is. If you answer all their questions, and successfully qualify all their scriptures, they seem to default to "Yes, but the Bible says this. And it's the word of God."

I ask them to cross reference it with some other religious texts, Buddhism for example.

"But that's not the word of God."



Here's the hardest thing I've come across in trying to convince them. I've almost gotten it all but this one: John 14:6 'Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.'





and BTW: Drugs are just tools. There are many tools. Drugs are there to show you that there is more to reality then you currently perceive. My opinion.

This is the picture of ignorance that organized religion and government paints for the human race so we can keep our minds permanently fixated on our daily tasks, being slaves for our governments and economic systems. This is the ignorant path of thinking that destroys civilizations, and will hopefully correct itself one day before it destroys the human race.

I don't know if you're aware of this, but organized religion is what paints the Gods that rizzo is speaking against. He's speaking against ritualism, memes, chants, and the other like delusions of God as a petty human entity that acts around our wills and serves our wills.

What he is speaking for is an abstract god that provides empowerment of the individual; quite what is necessary if humanity is ever to break the bonds of indoctrinated slavery brought upon it by government, organized religion, and other purveyors of group-think. On an individual level, most humans have a natural disdain for government, religion, mind-washing, repetition, self-loathing, etc. We tend to be such a miserable and self-destructive species because we ignore the inner power source that screams for individual liberty and joy; submitting to the very things our souls hate. And so often do we do this out of joy. It is the failure at life who curses God for abandoning him when the individual abandoned God to spare himself the work of standing up for what his deepest thoughts and desires know to be just.

You may not agree with moral absolutism on your surface, but deep down you know that humanity is fucking twisted, and anyone that stands up tall to face this demon we've let grow amongst us is going to be killed. This isn't some petty game of religion versus atheism; this is mankind abandoning his last fucking hope on the grand scale. Nietzsche said it best, "God is dead." He wasn't saying 'God doesn't exist.' He was saying that man no longer has a God. We've let the light fade and now we're fucked.

I'm not a huge fan of Christian theology, despite being a Christian my self. My hope is that when humanity has finished killing itself, the book of Revelations isn't full of shit. I hope that in the end, there's something that sets things in proper order...because we sure as fuck aren't interested in healing the world. We just want some more money, so we can buy more stuff, get laid more, buy our pills, watch our TVs, and work our empty lives to death so we can better ignore the fucking misery we face each day...the misery of letting ourselves die on the inside.

I believe in God not because anyone spread the message to me. I rejected all notions of faith and belief. I didn't believe until I was so tired of being dead inside that I asked to be revived...I wasn't asking God, I was asking the shadow inside my self. The shadow didn't answer though; the shadow was pierced by a light and God answered. I don't know much about God, except that it exists and that it cares about us. It's a shame that for most people God isn't shit but a good luck charm you can use to get you out of a pinch. God is THE source.

"John 14:6 'Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.'"

There's a verse in which Jesus says that all manner of blasphemy against his name will be forgiven, but blasphemy of the spirit puts one in danger of hellfire.

Jesus, supposedly, was the physical form of the Spirit. It's not whether or not you believe anything in particular about the man Jesus and what he was, it's whether or not you have the Spirit. The Spirit is the only way to God. A hindu principle describes the journeys with the Spirit to God quite well, "There are many paths to the top of the mountain."

Some find the Spirit without any religion at all (as was my case). Others find it in religion. Others find it in family. Others find it in nature. The Spirit calls to us when we become willing to accept it. It doesn't matter whether you think Jesus is the literal Son of God or not...if you don't have the Spirit in your life, you don't have God in your life. Inner death is inner death no matter what intellectualisms you hold to.

Quite the same, I've met people that claim atheism and agnosticism that know the Spirit as well as I and many others. It's not about the name or the beliefs attached to it, it's simply whether you have it or not. As JC said, "ALL manner of blasphemy against my name will be forgiven..."

It doesn't give a shit what you call it. If you want inner life, you'll have inner life. If you accept your inner death, you'll stay dead inside. Pretty simple, really.

This means that rarely do people take the time to actually consider what they see God as, outside of what they're being spoon fed. Obviously you'll get the standard, "all powerful, all loving, all knowing, all merciful" etc. However, this is just a description of qualities, not the essence itself. You might as well say, "Rizzo has X amount of posts, listens to punk music, etc". Does that tell you who I am? Not really.

I agree with this, most people are familiar with God as a label, and they simply repeat back what they were taught about that label, or word, or whatever you want to call it.

Actually considering the concept of God, i believe requires just as much introspection as it does looking to outside sources. and if there's one thing a lot of religions teach, it's not to question things like that.

But on second thought, most people don't question, and they seem quite happy that way, so perhaps this isn't an entirely bad thing? (except for the fact that people are accepting and preaching about ideas and concepts they have memorized, instead of taken the time to truly understand)

"John 14:6 'Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.'"

There's a verse in which Jesus says that all manner of blasphemy against his name will be forgiven, but blasphemy of the spirit puts one in danger of hellfire.

Jesus, supposedly, was the physical form of the Spirit. It's not whether or not you believe anything in particular about the man Jesus and what he was, it's whether or not you have the Spirit. The Spirit is the only way to God. A hindu principle describes the journeys with the Spirit to God quite well, "There are many paths to the top of the mountain."

Some find the Spirit without any religion at all (as was my case). Others find it in religion. Others find it in family. Others find it in nature. The Spirit calls to us when we become willing to accept it. It doesn't matter whether you think Jesus is the literal Son of God or not...if you don't have the Spirit in your life, you don't have God in your life. Inner death is inner death no matter what intellectualisms you hold to.

Quite the same, I've met people that claim atheism and agnosticism that know the Spirit as well as I and many others. It's not about the name or the beliefs attached to it, it's simply whether you have it or not. As JC said, "ALL manner of blasphemy against my name will be forgiven..."

It doesn't give a shit what you call it. If you want inner life, you'll have inner life. If you accept your inner death, you'll stay dead inside. Pretty simple, really.

Yeah... you pretty much got it. There is something seriously wrong with conscious individuals that question the existence of spirit lol.

Here's the hardest thing I've come across in trying to convince them. I've almost gotten it all but this one: John 14:6 'Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.'


I've thought about this too and after much research consider that the word 'Jesus' is a modern interpretation of a Hebrew word YHSVH meaning: "God is Help"; or the Absolute, or the Controlling Principle, of existence is Help. Any person in any time or culture who recognises and honours that Principle could be said to believe in Jesus. Your thoughts?

I've thought about this too and after much research consider that the word 'Jesus' is a modern interpretation of a Hebrew word YHSVH meaning: "God is Help"; or the Absolute, or the Controlling Principle, of existence is Help. Any person in any time or culture who recognises and honours that Principle could be said to believe in Jesus. Your thoughts?
Yeah. That's good.

But, it implies either that Jesus, the man, was not literal and didn't exist, OR it implies that Jesus (YHSVH) was separate from the teacher who everyone calls Jesus. So you'd have a real hard time trying to define where in the Bible it was talking about YHSVH and where it was talking about the man "Jesus".



"John 14:6 'Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.'"

There's a verse in which Jesus says that all manner of blasphemy against his name will be forgiven, but blasphemy of the spirit puts one in danger of hellfire.

Jesus, supposedly, was the physical form of the Spirit. It's not whether or not you believe anything in particular about the man Jesus and what he was, it's whether or not you have the Spirit. The Spirit is the only way to God. A hindu principle describes the journeys with the Spirit to God quite well, "There are many paths to the top of the mountain."

Some find the Spirit without any religion at all (as was my case). Others find it in religion. Others find it in family. Others find it in nature. The Spirit calls to us when we become willing to accept it. It doesn't matter whether you think Jesus is the literal Son of God or not...if you don't have the Spirit in your life, you don't have God in your life. Inner death is inner death no matter what intellectualisms you hold to.

Quite the same, I've met people that claim atheism and agnosticism that know the Spirit as well as I and many others. It's not about the name or the beliefs attached to it, it's simply whether you have it or not. As JC said, "ALL manner of blasphemy against my name will be forgiven..."

It doesn't give a shit what you call it. If you want inner life, you'll have inner life. If you accept your inner death, you'll stay dead inside. Pretty simple, really.
As much sense as that makes, A Christian would say you're taking it out of context and that you're going to hell.

Yeah. That's good.

But, it implies either that Jesus, the man, was not literal and didn't exist, OR it implies that Jesus (YHSVH) was separate from the teacher who everyone calls Jesus. So you'd have a real hard time trying to define where in the Bible it was talking about YHSVH and where it was talking about the man "Jesus".




As much sense as that makes, A Christian would say you're taking it out of context and that you're going to hell.

Yeah, and the Pharisees got Rome to crucify Jesus. I don't give a shit what other Christians say about my relationship with the Spirit. God's the judge, not them...they can go fuck themselves. :)

I've thought about this too and after much research consider that the word 'Jesus' is a modern interpretation of a Hebrew word YHSVH meaning: "God is Help"; or the Absolute, or the Controlling Principle, of existence is Help. Any person in any time or culture who recognises and honours that Principle could be said to believe in Jesus. Your thoughts?

That concept resonates wih me. One need not be a Christian to achieve Christ Consciousness, aka the seventh level of consciousness or unity consciousness.

Also, reminds me of the teachings of the Buddha, saying that the Buddha is not an entity, but Enlightenment itself, and anyone who becomes enlightened becomes the (or "a") Buddha.

God = extra dimensional burst of energy that existed long enough to "Big Bang" this universe into existence. Everything else that is attributed to God is based on individual assumption.

Yeah. That's good.

But, it implies either that Jesus, the man, was not literal and didn't exist, OR it implies that Jesus (YHSVH) was separate from the teacher who everyone calls Jesus. So you'd have a real hard time trying to define where in the Bible it was talking about YHSVH and where it was talking about the man "Jesus".


Google "Sacred Name Bible" and it becomes easy to see the original language does not make a distinction between YHSVH and Jesus, in fact Jesus would not ever get a mention as that name was not in use until long after the supposed events. It's like calling Marcus Aurelius - Red Golden. Those in the know would understand Marcus means "power of Mars" and Aurelius means "Golden"; and so it is with those who stop at Jesus and do not comprehend, whether myth or fact, the word has power and meaning. I arrived at this thought from the following(different translations amplify the meaning):
12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— NIV

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: KJV

12But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the authority (power, privilege, right) to become the children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name-- AMP

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/





The emphasis is on the 'name', clearly focusing on the meaning of that name as rendered in the original. I looked at the dictionary definition of "Jesus":
Origin: Latin from Greek Iesous, from Hebrew Yeshua, shortened from Yehoshua God is Help

Insert the meaning into the text in place of the 'name':
12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed God is Help, he gave the right to become children of God— NIV

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe God is Help: KJV

12But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the authority (power, privilege, right) to become the children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) God{The Absolute/The highest or Controlling Principle} as Help-- AMP





Reasoning that, in my experience, the highest acts of humanity seem displayed by selfless acts of helping, and that if one elects 'Help' as the 'God' or, highest/controlling principle of one's life -- recognising that even those who profess no belief in a God, may also be involved in 'selfless' acts of kindness, even helping complete strangers with no thought of reward and, sometimes at considerable personal risk. Seems a viable and admirable "God-View". Any other person, of any culture, time, or faith who arrives at a similar reasoning....... Would it be fair to say they also believe in Jesus even tho they never heard the 'name'?

Very good, redzed. :)

That concept resonates wih me. One need not be a Christian to achieve Christ Consciousness, aka the seventh level of consciousness or unity consciousness.

Also, reminds me of the teachings of the Buddha, saying that the Buddha is not an entity, but Enlightenment itself, and anyone who becomes enlightened becomes the (or "a") Buddha.

Yes. There's a lot of parallels that suggest a Buddha Mind or Buddha "level of consciousness", and your comments on Christ Consciousness resonate with both Yogananda's Hindu teachings and some Christian biblical concepts:

1 Corinthians 2:16

King James Version (KJV)
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
1 Corinthians 2:15-16 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 2 (Whole Chapter)
New International Version (NIV)
"For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
1 Corinthians 2:15-16 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 2 (Whole Chapter)
Amplified Bible (AMP)
For who has known or understood the mind (the counsels and purposes) of the Lord so as to guide and instruct Him and give Him knowledge? But we have the mind of Christ (the Messiah) and do hold the thoughts (feelings and purposes) of His heart.
1 Corinthians 2:15-16 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 2 (Whole Chapter)
New King James Version (NKJV)
For “who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

Cheers:)

Just stumbled upon this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Aquarian_Gospel_of_Jesus_the_Christ


The "Aquarian Gospel" makes the following claims, among others:

* Jesus was distinct from Christ, or "The Christ." By making himself, through effort and prayer, a fit vessel, Jesus enabled The Christ to dwell within him.

* Jesus was conceived by a human father.

* Jesus came to earth to show the way back to God via his lifestyle and teachings. He is the example we must model our own lives after, if we seek salvation.

* Reincarnation exists, and is the explanation for various seeming injustices. Reincarnation allows people to settle debts they have incurred in past lives.

* Humanity has forgotten God and is currently working its way back to fully remembering God.

* Time is separated into ages. These ages last approximately 2,000 years. We are now nearing the start of the Aquarian Age.

* All souls will eventually mature and become perfect, like Jesus, thus ending the cycle of reincarnation.

* No soul is ever abandoned by God.

I came across this last night, and gave my Christian mother a hell of a time trying to describe what it really means.


031: Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
032: Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
033: The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
034: Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
035: If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
036: Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
037: If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
038: But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

I came across this last night, and gave my Christian mother a hell of a time trying to describe what it really means.

What Jesus seems to be doing here is using a legal defence. He is claiming that by the Jew's law: all are 'gods', and thus for him to claim to be the son of god, was not claiming a difference, but proclaiming the divinity of all. "Thus the Father in me and I in Him". Also in the Gospel of John one reads that "God is Spirit" -- "formless being"(Dictionary definition of 'Spirit'), a state that shares descriptive qualities with the science regarding energy. Quantum physics seems to show at the smallest plane of existence, matter is composed of energy; and the line between pure energy and matter is quite blurry. In other words spirit and energy share the property of formless being and both are able to temporarily manifest on the physical plane as a form. However if one was to put on the quantum physics 'glasses' and look at all matter at the quantum level, there we find that there is no smallest particle of which all things are made. Instead science found .... energy, magnetic information waves.

As in the 'multiverse' thesis, all things are made of the one thing, interconnected in an indivisible, infinite, quantum 'membrane'. Like waves on the ocean, all form exists within the eternal sea of energy as dense clumps of magnetic information waves.
A fish asked of another fish, "I have always heard about the sea, but what is it? Where is it? The other fish replied, "You live, move and have your being in the sea. The sea is within you and without you, and you are made of sea, and you will end in sea. The sea surrounds you as your own being."

the Father is in me, and I in him.

Namaste:)